|
Blue Helix
bold hand


Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
|
Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures 2
#27107429 - 12/25/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Okay, so I finally got some preliminary results on my LC-to-bulk versus spawned monotubs. These are using the exact same substrate and LC. The only difference was that for one tub I used my usual LC-to-bulk technique where I allow the substrate to colonize in the bags. The other tray was about an inch deeper and used the traditional spawning techniques (as I knew it was going to probably need all the help it could get). This is not some fancy clone. This is a very basic MS, and it was not selected for performance like many people do on this site. This is the first flush. So instead of me talking about my superior BEs and all that, let's just cut to the chase.
Here is the deep spawned tray (about 4") of Z strain LC:

Here is the less deep but LC-direct-to-bulk tray (about 3") of the same LC and substrate:

Neither of these trays are very impressive to me to be honest. The yield of the LC-to-bulk actually looks from that first flush pretty poor compared to what I've grown in the past in a traditional fruiting chamber due to several spots that were not jammed with pins as usually is the case in traditional variable control chamber-style fruiters. And the other tray is a complete joke (although granted it is about 3 days behind the LC-to-bulk in this picture - but it'll never catch up). Again, this was the same LC, same substrate, same conditions, same casing, etc. to isolate the variable of interest - which is the method of colonization of the substrate (i.e. spawned versus not spawned).
I will be doing some follow up grows on this to see if I can manage to get the spawned monotubs to work better than this. Maybe the very special case of a clone (something I almost never bother with given MS using this technique are nearly as good), the spawning will work for me. Or maybe this was a total fluke because obviously the spawned result was so pathetic that it was hard to even comprehend how it could yield that poorly without something else seriously wrong (and if I do find that out, I'll update this thread). I've seen very good results on here using spawning, which makes me wonder if the LC-to-bulk grows would be almost unbelievable given the same everything else. That's my goal too.
Any questions feel free to PM me. I would love to reply to these in the thread, but I don't keep track of these threads anymore, mostly because people are just stating their opinions about unrelated topics (like for example how button mushroom farmers suck and nothing they do supposedly can be applied to grows here for some unknown reason). If people did what they should do (i.e. apply the scientific method) and did a A/B comparison of the same substrate, same casing, same conditions, same everything except for the one variable of interest (and that being the topic of interest for the thread), I would love to read about their results. That's my total dream in fact, but no one does that. Instead, they just post pictures of totally unrelated nice flushes they've had to "disprove" my results are false and talk about some totally unrelated topic. The problem is that doing that doesn't disprove anything. In fact a picture of some flush you had under some totally different genetics with a totally different set up is meaningless unless you do both kinds of grows in your setup with your genetics, etc. Single variable isolation is how science works; otherwise you are just taking pretty pictures.
Anyway, I'll post another thread once I get more information, and just PM me if you'd like to improve your grows. Thanks.
|
Ababyphoenix
You



Registered: 03/21/19
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Human Body
Last seen: 24 days, 22 hours
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Blue Helix]
#27107669 - 12/25/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
--------------------
   Pho's MushiAventures:
My '21 GLOG LAGM 2022
Edited by Ababyphoenix (12/25/20 05:06 PM)
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 46 minutes
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Ababyphoenix]
#27107675 - 12/25/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
That first one is so off there had to be bacteria in the spawn or something yeah?
If it was all clean that’s pretty weird. I have had wildly different results from the same ms lc before though.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: A.k.a]
#27107697 - 12/25/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
This is my bag after 17 days.
3 bags total. each bag is 6lb. of coir, verm. non prep. oats. 5 hours each bag in the Presto. total moisture of sub. 65%.. (microwave oven test) 145ml. lc. added

I made up three bags. One bag has green right under the .5 filter patch.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: micelio]
#27108015 - 12/25/20 10:34 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I’m not out to “disprove” anyone but I have no idea what relevance Agaricus farming practices have in cubensis cultivation. They are not even in the same family and have vastly different characteristics and needs. Can you explain what specific practices agaricus farmers employ that would be worth it to a cube grower? It can’t be the 200 quart substrates, I did a bathtub and IMO an 85 quart sub was already pushing the limits of what the culture would tolerate. The heat a cube sub that size would generate would be definitely detrimental to the colonies well being. It can’t be the huge investment in time equipment and materials to produce the compost, cubes have zero need for such substrates.
If someone makes a claim it’s good if they can provide links and citations or at least a grow log with their own personal findings. I’ve not got your tenure BH however I’ve nothing to gain or prove by falsifying my experiences. I’ve done more than a few grow logs and have always taken pains to be as transparent as the internet and the laws of the land will allow me. I did a grow log where I ran complex subs that included manure across three clones vs plain coir verm. Each time the coir verm came out on top. Spawning grain to coir verm has provided me a lot of success over the years despite living in old houses, with dogs that shed like mad. Does your experience invalidate mine?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23399203
|
leroM
Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 83
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27108059 - 12/25/20 11:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Perhaps he was referring to BE, originally developed for button shrooms...
Also, on other threads he has shown an interest in demonstrating that the spawn->bulk step is a waste of time....put it all together in a bag (similar to mudafuka’s bottle tek), sterilize, then lay it out. Seems to me that was the point he was trying to make.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: leroM]
#27108063 - 12/25/20 11:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Yeah I know what BE is and how to calculate it. I also am familiar with invitro colonization in bags. I grew cubes on a towel in a bag once.
|
leroM
Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 83
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27108071 - 12/25/20 11:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Man, everyone knows the high quality of your work& contribution, chill...
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Blue Helix]
#27108125 - 12/26/20 12:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Blue Helix said: Or maybe this was a total fluke because obviously the spawned result was so pathetic that it was hard to even comprehend how it could yield that poorly without something else seriously wrong.
And Bingo was his name, OH
|
leroM
Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 83
|
|
And, that supports the proposition, that if you can achieve similar/better results by avoiding the spawn->sub step, you are better off not taking the risk..
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: leroM]
#27108560 - 12/26/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Sure an unbroken colony carries less risk than spawning in air does. You need to be completely on point as far as spawn production goes, it’s the hardest part of the process. However if a person does get it all dialed in they can produce a lot more volume with a lot less sterilization capacity than they could running bulk media invitro.
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27108572 - 12/26/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Agreed
|
leroM
Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 83
|
|
Of course, that is obvious.
However, that does not negate the benefit of using this technique, especially if you are growing for personal consumption, which many/most of us are doing.
For me, speed, risk-aversion, & simplicity greatly outweigh excess yield.
And, as far as competency is concerned, producing clean LC is a better measure of competency and more useful than colonizing a jar of grain.
Edited by leroM (12/26/20 11:07 AM)
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: leroM] 1
#27108980 - 12/26/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I’ve got no issues with that. What I have issue with is the insinuation that people who do practice bulk growing are being surreptitiously accused of being untruthful about their results. I’ve tried extremely hard to be open about a lot of what I do. I don’t like the insinuation that I’ve been secretly working in pristine lab conditions to achieve my results when the truth of the matter is I rocked a SAB for years before I got my hood and I currently grow in a dusty ass basement in a 50 year old house that’s falling apart.
Again I have zero issues with saying invitro colonization of bulk media is a safe method that has fewer vectors than open air spawning. That’s a factual statement. But saying you can pull more yield doing it that way that with spawning is the equivalent of saying you can ride farther on a tricycle than you can on a mountain bike. That may be true for some people who haven’t learned to ride a mountain bike but certainly not everyone has the same issue.
|
leroM
Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 83
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27109207 - 12/26/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Good, cuz it only makes sense, both about the facts, and your track record of making shit simple.
As for your feeling about being personally attacked by BH, there must be more to this than what’s in this thread, cuz i didn’t see him accuse you of anything...i’ll review the thread again and edit this if he did...
FWIW, seems to me, you both have offered a lot of goodness, with potential for a lot more to come...and are big enuff to work out any personal issues.
Cheers!
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: leroM]
#27109277 - 12/26/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I don’t have a personal issue with anyone...at least AFAIK. I’m just trying to stick to the facts.
|
leroM
Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 83
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27109322 - 12/26/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The facts are he didn’t say squat about you
|
Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: leroM] 1
#27109329 - 12/26/20 04:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Shut up troll puppet, you're annoying as fuck.
|
leroM
Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 83
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: Josex]
#27109367 - 12/26/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
You already know what i think or you
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Breaking the spawning habit II - in pictures [Re: leroM]
#27109579 - 12/26/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
leroM said: The facts are he didn’t say squat about you
Not me directly and not in this thread but, he has said plenty of things other threads about TC’s and moderators. I seem to feel like I fit those descriptions.
|
|