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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27108712 - 12/26/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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someone just bought me a Merlin Sheldrake book.
who calls their child Merlin?
Rupert.
I will try to read it without reacting to the father of the author, but seriously, I feel snagged in a marketing net.
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: redgreenvines]
#27109445 - 12/26/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe that's his wizard name? His muggle name is probably Bob Jones or something like that.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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LeafRaker
nomad



Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 718
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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: redgreenvines]
#27109574 - 12/26/20 07:01 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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The marketing net seems pretty obvious and inclines me towards getting these books from public libraries or used book stores, if at all.
Like the rest of publishing and media, the parts of the industry around psychedelics suffers from a lot of self-dealing by a small group of people.
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Loaded Shaman] 1
#27109636 - 12/26/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
CrazyDragon said: I'm going to respectfully disagree here on a few of your critiques.
The idea of, "just take it" and you'll see for yourself in theory is great, but the problem is most people will not. And many people who do take much smaller doses than they could that would allow for a true full blown experience.
In a Shroomery forum, a lot of these concepts are 'duh' but for the general public, it's seen as another drug.
I also feel like it really is an unexplored world where we should share our stories once we come back. There's plenty to learn and appreciate.
Very well said and agreed.
I say exactly what you said all the time, especially in mushroom ID threads by complete neophytes; the community almost refuses to acknowledge a lot of what they assume is "common sense", in fact ISN'T, lol.
A lot of users have what I call "experience bias", where they forget all this shit is brand new to like, 99.98% of society.
McKenna eventually lead me to where I am and I'm eternally grateful for that!
I understand the paradigm better than I did before now.
I was taking psychedelics for 15 years before I even knew anyone was even talking or writing on the subject. I was working with and obsessed with music, have never owned a TV, used the internet as a tool only, never really had any reason to consider if people made other psychedelic media besides music. It was when I came here I started hearing about these people. Then when I listened to and read what they said said I was like "What?... Nah, I don't think so". Yet the drum continues to bang and more and more people take up this torch.
As a conversion therapy tool I can see the value, but for people who already take psychedelics the lessons have been/are being explored. That's why I say just eat the psychs and explore the realms, because that is all one needs to do to start hearing the messages. For the first year it's all fun and games, but then it starts to sink in and the profundity of the experience starts to manifest. There's no one who can really tell you your own mind and if you are still in the honeymoon phase the deeper meanings are harder to grasp until you pass that anyway.
I went to a psychedelic conference a while back. Whilst some of it was very interesting, scientists doing research and the like, I found the philosophical and ideological talks dreary as all hell. Felt like I was attending a church and there were people claiming to know the essence of God.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Northerner]
#27109915 - 12/27/20 12:33 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: someone just bought me a Merlin Sheldrake book.
who calls their child Merlin?
Rupert.
I will try to read it without reacting to the father of the author, but seriously, I feel snagged in a marketing net.
LOL! Rupert Sheldrake is awesome! I love his stuff.
Quote:
Northerner said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
CrazyDragon said: I'm going to respectfully disagree here on a few of your critiques.
The idea of, "just take it" and you'll see for yourself in theory is great, but the problem is most people will not. And many people who do take much smaller doses than they could that would allow for a true full blown experience.
In a Shroomery forum, a lot of these concepts are 'duh' but for the general public, it's seen as another drug.
I also feel like it really is an unexplored world where we should share our stories once we come back. There's plenty to learn and appreciate.
Very well said and agreed.
I say exactly what you said all the time, especially in mushroom ID threads by complete neophytes; the community almost refuses to acknowledge a lot of what they assume is "common sense", in fact ISN'T, lol.
A lot of users have what I call "experience bias", where they forget all this shit is brand new to like, 99.98% of society.
McKenna eventually lead me to where I am and I'm eternally grateful for that!
I understand the paradigm better than I did before now.
I was taking psychedelics for 15 years before I even knew anyone was even talking or writing on the subject. I was working with and obsessed with music, have never owned a TV, used the internet as a tool only, never really had any reason to consider if people made other psychedelic media besides music. It was when I came here I started hearing about these people. Then when I listened to and read what they said said I was like "What?... Nah, I don't think so". Yet the drum continues to bang and more and more people take up this torch.
As a conversion therapy tool I can see the value, but for people who already take psychedelics the lessons have been/are being explored. That's why I say just eat the psychs and explore the realms, because that is all one needs to do to start hearing the messages. For the first year it's all fun and games, but then it starts to sink in and the profundity of the experience starts to manifest. There's no one who can really tell you your own mind and if you are still in the honeymoon phase the deeper meanings are harder to grasp until you pass that anyway.
I went to a psychedelic conference a while back. Whilst some of it was very interesting, scientists doing research and the like, I found the philosophical and ideological talks dreary as all hell. Felt like I was attending a church and there were people claiming to know the essence of God.
Yes, you'll find your way one way or the other most certainly. Some are inspired by the literature, some with direct experience, and many a combination of both.
My thing has always been it's unwise to entirely dismiss a tool, even when it seems it's not working for you at this present moment.
I think some serious experience yields that lesson, unironically.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Green_Hands
The Great Devourer



Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 625
Loc: Old World
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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27110515 - 12/27/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's just that people like Shulgin are real deal. And if I want ideas, sure, autors like Robert Anton Willson.
Colors and flavors.
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Looping our reflections, our obsessions draw us in Fix and fixation, no sentience beyond
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Northerner]
#27111407 - 12/27/20 10:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: Felt like I was attending a church and there were people claiming to know the essence of God.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Posts: 8,006
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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27111506 - 12/28/20 12:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Northerner said: Felt like I was attending a church and there were people claiming to know the essence of God.

"When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger." -Confucius
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Universe
Friend


Registered: 05/27/13
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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Northerner]
#27111809 - 12/28/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: ... Art on the other hand can convey a lot. It's not all I, I, me me, you, you, you, you, but is an actual expression or attempt to capture these ineffable experiences in a way that connects with different people on their level. It either resonates or it doesn't, and the reasons for the resonation are completely personal. The viewer is not being herded like cattle into a particular belief system, just shown what someone else saw or felt. So much purer, so much closer to the psychedelic experience itself.
I agree.
When I started tripping (age 16 in 1980) my access to psychedelic lit was limited to a copy of The Psychedelic Experience, a copy of The Doors of Perception, and whatever I could find in the set of Encyclopedia Britanica that my dad bought in the early 70's. I was dyslexic and had poor reading comprehension. And I was stoned most of the time, so I wouldn't get far trying to read that stuff.
I would search out trippy music and movies and books of art to satisfy my psychedelic curiosity. When I tripped it was just me, in my own head, thinking. I never went into it with other people's thoughts in my head, like Terrence McKenna, and all these youtube talkers we have now. It was just me, observing and digesting it all. I find these talkers interesting but I'm glad I was able to experience things the way I did.
Edited by Universe (12/28/20 08:21 AM)
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LeafRaker
nomad



Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 718
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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27112044 - 12/28/20 10:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Northerner said: Felt like I was attending a church and there were people claiming to know the essence of God.

"When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger." -Confucius
Remembering he also said: “The man who asks a question is a fool for a minute, the man who does not ask is a fool for life.”
What are 'the finger' and 'the moon' you're invoking here?
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
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OutsideOfMyMind
LSD Self Administrative Director



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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Northerner]
#27113397 - 12/29/20 02:14 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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If you want to read real psychedelic literature, read Albert Hoffman's book, LSD My Problem Child. EXCELLENT book that everyone interested in psychedelics should read. You can download it free on these internet.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: LeafRaker]
#27113437 - 12/29/20 03:33 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
LeafRaker said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Northerner said: Felt like I was attending a church and there were people claiming to know the essence of God.

"When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger." -Confucius
Remembering he also said: “The man who asks a question is a fool for a minute, the man who does not ask is a fool for life.”
What are 'the finger' and 'the moon' you're invoking here?
Another, non-Confucius, but of similar vein:
“Do not correct a fool, or he will hate you; correct a wise man, and he will appreciate you.” – Proverb
The finger would be the general assumption that someone like McKenna is somehow implying he's a guru or a source for absolute truth on the topic, rather than merely being a resource, or guide, for one to discover the essence of that, whatever the hell it is, for themselves (the moon).
The map is not the territory, yaddah yaddah yaddah.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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4HO-DMT


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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Loaded Shaman] 1
#27114026 - 12/29/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: ... the general assumption that someone like McKenna is somehow implying he's a guru or a source for absolute truth on the topic, rather than merely being a resource, or guide, for one to discover the essence of that, whatever the hell it is, for themselves...
You hit on the essence of it. Too many people take McKenna's or Leary's words as gospel. In the case of Leary, that was disastrous for the psychedelic community for decades. Critical thinking is an important tool when it comes to these things.
I enjoy reading psychedelic literature. It's fascinating to see other perspectives than my own. But, that's just what they are, perspectives and opinions. I think it is important to recognize that and form one's own perspectives and ideas. I've read, "True Hallucinations," many times because it is a great story. McKenna may have been a crackpot, but he was a great storyteller and a decent writer as well. But, I read it for pleasure, not for a map on how to live my life. One person's boring is another one's leisure, which is awesome! We're not a bunch of automatons after all.
There are many great writings on psychedelics. Like anything though, there are also mediocre writings and also utter garbage. Some of the more recent stuff is not so good IMO. I attribute this to the rise in self publication that has accompanied electronic publication. Unfortunately, this approach bypasses the editing process. I've read a few books that were published in the last few years with flat out incorrect information and misinformation. 
I do think it's worthwhile for the new folks to read what experienced people have to say on the topic. It can help one to avoid some serious pitfalls. But, critical thinking should also be deployed.
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LosTresOjos
Humano

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Re: Psychedelic media and literature is boring. [Re: Northerner] 1
#27114117 - 12/29/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Mckenna was well known for saying, don't follow me. He explicitly argued for a direct experience. So you have the same opinion as mckenna. "take it easy, but take it."
He wasn't like a preacher where all truths flow from him. He was pointing everyone to the mushroom.
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