|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* 1
#27104929 - 12/23/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by OnlyHuman
Reason for deletion: Pointless
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman] 1
#27105108 - 12/24/20 01:25 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
He is against thought .. but ... it sure seems like he has a lot of thoughts he wants to communicate to others so they can think thoughts that agree with his thoughts and seems unaware of how silly this is as do the members of his audience
seems weird
|
Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 3 hours
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27105118 - 12/24/20 01:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The Alpha through Theta state of consciousness is where the "uplink" magic occurs .
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
|
yoosername
Lab Member


Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 459
Loc: Terra Fracta
Last seen: 31 minutes, 9 seconds
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27105131 - 12/24/20 01:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The content of consciousness is consciousness!
The observer is the observed!
Conformity is disorder!
The description is not the described!
"We started out by asking if I can look at the whole movement of life as a unitary process. The killing, the refugees, the war in the Middle East, the Catholics, the Protestants, the scientists, the artists, the businessmen, private life, public life, my family, your family - there is endless division. This division has brought about such disorder in the world and in myself. Can I look at all this as a marvellous single movement?
I can't, that is a fact. I can't, because I am fragmented in myself. I am conditioned in myself. So my concern then is, not to find out how to live a unitary life, but to see if the fragmentation can come to an end. And that fragmentation only comes to an end when I realize that all my consciousness is made up of these fragments. My consciousness is the fragmentation. And when I say, "There must be integration, it must be brought together", it is still part of that trick I am playing upon myself.
So I realize that. I realize it as a truth, like fire burns, you can't deceive me, it is a fact, and I am left with it. And I have to find out how it operates in my daily life - not guess, play, theorize. Because I have seen the truth of it, that truth is going to act. If I don't see it and pretend I have seen it, then I am going to make a hideous mess of my life." -Krishnamurti
-------------------- O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27105134 - 12/24/20 01:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27105181 - 12/24/20 02:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
"You're living in a dream, I dribble in my sleep You're looking in the mirror while I'm spitting to this beat"
Yes thought is destructive, he's a buddha but he isn't the first and won't be the last to say it.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
mycot
Crazy as fuck


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: laughingdog]
#27105233 - 12/24/20 04:24 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
laughingdog said: He is against thought .. but ... it sure seems like he has a lot of thoughts he wants to communicate to others so they can think thoughts that agree with his thoughts and seems unaware of how silly this is as do the members of his audience
seems weird
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: mycot] 2
#27105320 - 12/24/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
the activity of the mind is thought the objects in mind are thought. even our personality is thought.
meditation is thought. yoga is thought.
what you practice becomes second nature. that is how thoughts are shaped when they are unsuitable as is.
some people practice convincing other people that they are right and get pretty good at it - this distorts perspective, and is not suitable.
do not demonize thought, cultivate it to make life better.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: laughingdog]
#27105593 - 12/24/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
keep listening to him, you'll catch on, I promise
I will say that he repeatedly says that he has no illusions that these conversations are going to help anybody, and that everybody that is asking him questions is not looking for the truth but just another answer to add to the continuity of their thought structure. He also says that he is like a puppet and that we are pulling the strings, like a tape-recorder, that we are pulling the answers out of him.
If you have illusions about how an enlightened being will act, you'll miss what he's saying.
To sum it up though, what he is saying is give up. Everything that you are doing is adding to the momentum of thought, that all of your ideas and philosophizing is taking you away from by your natural state. There is nothing to understand.
Edited by OnlyHuman (12/24/20 11:09 AM)
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman] 1
#27105606 - 12/24/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
People that talk like you are obnoxious speak in common terms or don't speak at all
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Grapefruit]
#27105618 - 12/24/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Everyone says that thought is destructive, but what do you do about it? That's where U.G. differs
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27105633 - 12/24/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
All we know is thought
What is there to cultivate there? All I've done is cultivate thought and it's led me nowhere. All I've done is refine this tool that I've held in such high esteem and for what? It's not that there is a problem with thought per-say, in fact there is absolutely nothing wrong with thought when it is operating in it's natural place, but what we're doing is entirely different. We're trying to understand, we're trying to use thought to reach a goal, an ultimate goal, how absurd! Why should we have to plan out anything besides the petty? Why do we have such great confidence in thinking that we would place before it the task of molding our lives? Morality, truth, self-progress, this is all nonsense. Whatever so-called morality is there when you forget about morality and trying to be righteous is moral, trying to be other than what you are is accomplishing nothing.
I'm a hypocrite
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27105920 - 12/24/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OnlyHuman said: People that talk like you are obnoxious speak in common terms or don't speak at all
I've spent countless hours reading and watching UG in a long distant past, I have a feel as to what he was about. It does mystify somewhat how many people don't see it but eh, I didn't really see it at first even when I thought I did. I've given up on trying to explain him because it's very hard, and I don't really "get" him after all these years anyway, if there even is anything to get, he's a slippery motherfucker and an enigma all unto himself. People make similar criticisms of him as they do Laozi I've noticed. "If the tao is unspeakable why do you sit there trying to speak it? etc. etc."
And by the way Loaded Shaman is a pretty cool dude, which you might realise if you spent any time around here. What's obnoxious is someone like you wading in here like you know everything without even a hello first. Anyway, hi there shithead.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Grapefruit]
#27105941 - 12/24/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
People make similar criticisms of him as they do Laozi I've noticed. "If the tao is unspeakable why do you sit there trying to speak it? etc. etc."
He says that people ask questions and he answers, that he doesn't have any drive to say what he is saying, that it is all pulled out of him by the questioner. All he is saying is that your thinking is getting you nowhere and that there are no problems and no goals and that the demand to be enlightened is what keeps us from being enlightened and that there's not a damn thing we can do about it so we might as well just drop it and go live our lives.
I've talked to Loaded before I used to post here a little bit in 2019 and he seemed kind but his comment was absurd and if he has something to say he should say it in clear terms
I'm not pretending like I know everything I'm just denouncing philosophy as a practice because for the same reason that I think as a philosopher you can agree that tradition should be denounced lol
Edited by OnlyHuman (12/24/20 02:29 PM)
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27105980 - 12/24/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I think that's a part of it but what he's saying and more importantly doing is much bigger in scope than that in IMO, he was a secretive guy and you aren't going to get a full idea of his philosophy from a few videos and quotes. Nor without properly understanding the background of it, both from the west and the east. Bubble wrap yourself in him and it's just more sophistry.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27105985 - 12/24/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OnlyHuman said: keep listening to him, you'll catch on, I promise
...
your condescending tone aside...
those interested in the subject have heard it all hundreds of times before ... at least Eckhart Tolle is funny, and shows evidence of enjoying himself and his audiences... but not this guy
also dumping on thought, and making it the devil, will only tie some people in knots, that's why there are methods like mantra and following the breath, that don't tackle it directly.
Nothing new here - just a poor presentation.
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: laughingdog]
#27106024 - 12/24/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
From my perspective you are comparing some Oprah Winfrey cracker (one of the countless false claimers of enlightenment and self help book writers) to the kind of philosopher who only comes along once every few centuries. Not that Tolle's somewhat wishy washy philosophy has no value.
Just putting it out there that that's how it looks to me.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Grapefruit]
#27106025 - 12/24/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
He had no philosophy, boiling his words down to a philosophy is to miss the point entirely. We're animals, we don't need philosophy, we need food, water, and shelter. We live in memory and die in memory and never touch life because through philosophizing and trying to reach a made-up goal through thought we are adding momentum to ego/thought. Anything else that he has said is of no use to us.
|
Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27106045 - 12/24/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
W/o watching the video I assume he is attempting to show how being is independent of thinking.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Grapefruit]
#27106052 - 12/24/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Grapefruit said: From my perspective you are comparing some Oprah Winfrey cracker (one of the countless false claimers of enlightenment and self help book writers) to the kind of philosopher who only comes along once every few centuries. Not that Tolle's somewhat wishy washy philosophy has no value.
Just putting it out there that that's how it looks to me.
No I compared the presentation of a specific message, about thoughts. Which many teachers have presented over hundreds of years. Then I mentioned traditional methods used by many.
It doesn't seem to matter whom you like more, for the points I made. This guy comes across as doing exactly what he criticizes. Tolle has a very different approach with this issue, which apparently you haven't seen, but is on Youtube.
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: laughingdog]
#27106054 - 12/24/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I'm sorry that you think I'm being condescending, I think that says more about you than it does about me.
Comparing Eckhart Tolle to U.G. is a big mistake. Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, Papaji, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Rupert Spira, Laozi, Buddha, Jesus, and all of the other guys all have a lot to say without a doubt, but the mistake that they made was either trying to capture their wisdom if we can call it that within a framework and then trying to pass it on or attempting to give us some kind of meditation that could help us reach the place that they, as U.G. puts it in his case, stumbled into. U.G. clearly states that none of the knowledge is of any use to us, that we have been trying to reach a goal through thought, and that it will never work. He's clear that thought knows every trick in the book, and there is NO WAY OUT. He says that his stumbling into the natural state was acasual, and that there is nothing that he can do to free anybody from the stranglehold of thought.
Honestly, don't you think it is absurd that we create these goals, these ideals, and strive after them? What do we know? How can we possibly have any confidence in our ideals? After all, do that really have any basis? Why try to be anything other than what you are? Why try to be moral? Why try to be better. Fate brought you here, and there was nothing that you could do to change the outcome, because after all you aren't separate from the whole of nature. So why try to change anything at all?
It's not that thought is in any way bad in of itself, it's that memory has hijacked the whole of our experience.
As I've heard many people put it, U.G. is the final destination for anybody who has gone down the rabbit whole of oneness, pure-awareness and all the rest, for all those who found themselves listening to people like the teachers I mentioned above. If you don't see that yet, that's fine too.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27106060 - 12/24/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OnlyHuman said: He had no philosophy, boiling his words down to a philosophy is to miss the point entirely. We're animals, we don't need philosophy, we need food, water, and shelter. We live in memory and die in memory and never touch life because through philosophizing and trying to reach a made-up goal through thought we are adding momentum to ego/thought. Anything else that he has said is of no use to us.
Did you just figure this out? Ever hear of Zen? Jeeze
And now you present us with how you compare teachers, thank you so much master.
Definitely suggest you stay away from Zen centers, and stick to internet forums.
Edited by laughingdog (12/24/20 03:26 PM)
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Yellow Pants]
#27106065 - 12/24/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Of course that's a part of it, that's what they all talk about. Knowing that doesn't really help release us from the stranglehold of thought, though. If that's what you've been trying to do, if you've already listened and read into the whole business and you've been trying to be choicelessly aware or aware of awareness or whatever, then I suggest that you dig deep into this guys words until you realize that you don't have anything that you need to hear.
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27106067 - 12/24/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OnlyHuman said: He had no philosophy, boiling his words down to a philosophy is to miss the point entirely. We're animals, we don't need philosophy, we need food, water, and shelter. We live in memory and die in memory and never touch life because through philosophizing and trying to reach a made-up goal through thought we are adding momentum to ego/thought. Anything else that he has said is of no use to us.
You just did boil his words down to a philosophy in a far more simplistic manner than I did.
I don't exactly think he had a philosophy either. He was a Genius and truth speaker who was able to pluck truth out of the ether in the same way as all the other dudes who acheived moksha, nirvana, heaven, call it what you will of course his manner is different because that's what genius is. It's art as much as philosophy. The more someone is able to quiet his mental chatter the more he is able to speak in this way, it comes out in a unique way for everybody who has ever done it.
Quite easy to tell that you haven't read that much about UG and have just picked out a few choice bits from passages and are repeating them like mantras.
I've had enough talking about something as ineffable as the phenomena of UG for now so I shall keep shut.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27106960 - 12/25/20 06:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
if you have not cultivated the kind of thinking that embraces the here and now in a relaxed and sustainable way for 20-40 minutes then you have not meditated enough to judge the value of that practice.
this is directly realizable separate from any philosophy.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 2 hours, 35 minutes
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27106975 - 12/25/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OnlyHuman said: Post deleted by OnlyHuman
Reason for deletion: Pointless
+1 Merry Christmas!
|
Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: falcon] 1
#27107366 - 12/25/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
for psychedelic and meditation what do you recommend? dosage time frequency dose I'm thinking 1/4 blotter and meditation the whole trip something told me 1/3 blotter and 2 days then one day off and I would be among the 1000 doing the best I would have to meditate the whole day I would want to meditate as much as possible so dose at 8 am or pretty much when I wake up would suit me good I like the idea of having fun like a regular acid trip and also meditating much also I am strict about it I would want as much meditation as possible so I would dose when waking up meditate pee when I have to have some food sit again pee sit and go to bed like after 6-10 hours
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
|
Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: Ferdinando]
#27107368 - 12/25/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
for some reason I'm not even afraid of acid that way because the meditation is that good as I know it is I would do 1000 hours a year if I could I would probably dose two times a week if I had some microdose is an option too if we have to be more easy on the mind
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: Ferdinando]
#27107465 - 12/25/20 01:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
that is an extremely enthusiastic approach.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
#27107562 - 12/25/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Thoughts Are Not the Enemy: An Innovative Approach to Meditation Practice Paperback – October 14, 2014 by Jason Siff (Author)
"A revolutionary new approach to meditation: a mindfulness of thinking that accepts and investigates the thoughts that arise as you meditate--from the author of Unlearning Meditation.
In most forms of meditation, the meditator is instructed to let go of thoughts as they arise. As a result, thinking is often taken, unnecessarily, to be something misguided or evil. This approach is misguided, says Jason Siff. In fact, if we allow thoughts to arise and become mindful of the thoughts themselves, we gain tranquillity and insight just as in other methods without having to reject our natural mental processes. And by observing the thoughts themselves with mindfulness and curiosity, we can learn a good deal about ourselves in the process."
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: laughingdog]
#27107677 - 12/25/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
UG never suggested that people should repress or block the natural movement of thought. If you think that you aren't listening or haven't read enough. He was just pointing to the fact that many of our thoughts are chained together and form a story that is neither natural or healthy. Amonst those around him he shot down those unhealthy thoughts that keep this framework of ego together, he described it as like clay pigeon shooting.
He was against meditation very definitely in all but the most advanced students, I believe he promoted a form of ascetism and sadhana as a method to better living. Although this is more to be seen in the way he lived than in anything he said. Trying to fit him into your orthodox buddhist mold of mindfulness and meditation as progression is a mistake. He was not against philosophising or debate and thinking in this manner (as you can see he practiced it all the time with those around him) but suggested that it was only a tool for sharpening the mind to break free from the structure itself, pointing out that there was no end to it in and of itself. He liked to point out that everyone who had ever become enlightened had dropped this striving anyway, else they wouldn't have been able to come to such a state of rest. Further suggesting that it might be possible to simply drop that striving from the start, allowing the mind and body to sort itself out naturally. This is a departure from the zen tradition that suggests that striving is necessary at the outset but should eventually drop away (see the famous picture of the zen circle of will).
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
Edited by Grapefruit (12/25/20 05:33 PM)
|
OnlyHuman
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/19
Posts: 37
Loc: United States
Last seen: 3 years, 22 days
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: Grapefruit]
#27107778 - 12/25/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The only problem I have with what you've said here is that our way of thinking is unnatural. I've been thinking, how can anything be unnatural? It's impossible. After all, without any real free will, the dominoes are falling exactly how they're meant to, or were destined to. So I've been thinking, is societies state of absurdity and suffering inevitable for any life forms capable of organizing themselves carefully with forward thinking to ensure their survival? Is this where thought inevitably leads all who have the refined ability? After all, one could say that God is just another trick up thought's sleeve to ensure it's survival. So we evolve, all the while trying to procreate and survive, until we happen to stumble upon agriculture at which point we develop societies to ensure further survival, and society inevitably turns into this, where we are fully aware that we will end, that everything will be gone, that nothing can satisfy us, that we're just fucked, clinging onto hope, until what happens to U.G. happens to us, or we just fucking sit here hoping that somehow it'll get better in absolutely any way.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: Grapefruit]
#27107963 - 12/25/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Grapefruit said: UG never suggested that people should repress or block the natural movement of thought. If you think that you aren't listening or haven't read enough. He was just pointing to the fact that many of our thoughts are chained together and form a story that is neither natural or healthy. Amonst those around him he shot down those unhealthy thoughts that keep this framework of ego together, he described it as like clay pigeon shooting.
He was against meditation very definitely in all but the most advanced students, I believe he promoted a form of ascetism and sadhana as a method to better living. Although this is more to be seen in the way he lived than in anything he said. Trying to fit him into your orthodox buddhist mold of mindfulness and meditation as progression is a mistake. He was not against philosophising or debate and thinking in this manner (as you can see he practiced it all the time with those around him) but suggested that it was only a tool for sharpening the mind to break free from the structure itself, pointing out that there was no end to it in and of itself. He liked to point out that everyone who had ever become enlightened had dropped this striving anyway, else they wouldn't have been able to come to such a state of rest. Further suggesting that it might be possible to simply drop that striving from the start, allowing the mind and body to sort itself out naturally. This is a departure from the zen tradition that suggests that striving is necessary at the outset but should eventually drop away (see the famous picture of the zen circle of will).
Well seems you are no longer feeling aimless, and have found a subject you care about. Wonderful !
However who can resist a little irony? - note that the aimlessness did Not result in enlightenment (unless i missed something) - so this business of "just letting go" isn't quite what its cracked up to be either.
Even those who experience something wonderful from tripping, seem to find it fades, 99.99...% of the time. Guru or no guru, understanding or no understanding, enlightened states simply don't behave as folks want them to. And that's part of the whole deal.
The self that wants to be enlightened, is destroyed by enlightenment. ( If it pops back up it was only toast.)
But, one only listens to gurus and teachings because there is a self that is ... wanting. If one doesn't see the absurdity of this, something is missing...
Hence much of the actual focus in daily life in spiritual canters, is on maintaining 'mindfulness', which is what will continue in the life of anyone, who drops self. In practice this is how the knot is cut.
And this is how the nervous system is retrained, moment by moment, after a lifetime of misuse. More and more "explanations" simply cannot do this work, which does require some effort. IMO.
Once we understand this we realize most of the time all that Gurus are doing is a little hand holding, when the students are struggling.
The work of continually bringing the mind and attention back to the present, must of course be done by the self (as long as there is one).
|
Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: laughingdog]
#27108204 - 12/26/20 03:01 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
thank you it's like it would make me learn to program or paint or paint more or something like that and do less substance it's like say I have my garden half in order it would push it to 70% or some of the benefit is of such nature putting garden in order and treating others in a better way such things I don't know all the benefits what fields could it make one excercise more but my results with it is very that it makes action better garden better
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: laughingdog]
#27108207 - 12/26/20 03:11 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I don't know why you're so obsessed with mindfulness as the only solution to becoming awake and aware. I guess you are not familiar with any other religious methods than Buddhism. Trance states for instance are another way of dropping the self. Anyway UG did constantly point out exactly what you have said about the futility of listening to him.
My situation is something entirely to itself and your presumptions are way off base.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 3 hours
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: yoosername]
#27109938 - 12/27/20 01:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
yoosername said: The content of consciousness is consciousness!
The observer is the observed!
Conformity is disorder!
The description is not the described!
"We started out by asking if I can look at the whole movement of life as a unitary process. The killing, the refugees, the war in the Middle East, the Catholics, the Protestants, the scientists, the artists, the businessmen, private life, public life, my family, your family - there is endless division. This division has brought about such disorder in the world and in myself. Can I look at all this as a marvellous single movement?
I can't, that is a fact. I can't, because I am fragmented in myself. I am conditioned in myself. So my concern then is, not to find out how to live a unitary life, but to see if the fragmentation can come to an end. And that fragmentation only comes to an end when I realize that all my consciousness is made up of these fragments. My consciousness is the fragmentation. And when I say, "There must be integration, it must be brought together", it is still part of that trick I am playing upon myself.
So I realize that. I realize it as a truth, like fire burns, you can't deceive me, it is a fact, and I am left with it. And I have to find out how it operates in my daily life - not guess, play, theorize. Because I have seen the truth of it, that truth is going to act. If I don't see it and pretend I have seen it, then I am going to make a hideous mess of my life." -Krishnamurti
"A song IS a song!" -Terence McKenna on the fun nature of tautology
Also, you can only do so much work from the waking/Beta level of consciousness. You have to go directly to your subconscious in order to create deep seated changes and beneficial shifts and synchronicities in your immediate environment.
The Beta/waking state is too weak to create the usually desired shifts on its own.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27110207 - 12/27/20 06:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
what's all this about beta states and a subconscious that can be controlled. There is a tipsy theory with 2 undefined cornerstones.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27110414 - 12/27/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
can we not make more junk? this should be part of schools how to not create more junk and garbage maybe how to clean it up the earth is almost full of junk can we not make more?
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Ferdinando]
#27110726 - 12/27/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I seem to drag 2 lbs of junk to the recycling and garbage chute each day. that's a ton of crap every 3 years just being myself.
only 1/3 of that is streamed back into compost or recycled stuff.
long way to go
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! *DELETED* [Re: Grapefruit]
#27110756 - 12/27/20 02:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Grapefruit said: I don't know why you're so obsessed with mindfulness as the only solution to becoming awake and aware. I guess you are not familiar with any other religious methods than Buddhism. Trance states for instance are another way of dropping the self. Anyway UG did constantly point out exactly what you have said about the futility of listening to him.
My situation is something entirely to itself and your presumptions are way off base.
Didn't know I was obsessed ... if so probably because I am surrounded by folks that are addicted to various forms of distraction, which is a bit sad.
..."the futility of listening to him" yet you all post about him worshipfully...perhaps you all are "obsessed"?
. The reason for the popularity of what is called "mindfulness" in the US these days is because, it is not exotic like trance states. It occurs naturally in yoga classes, Tai chi classes, and hopefully in all the operating rooms, in all the hospitals world wide, etc. It has been used in hospitals, with patients, and in prisons with inmates, with documented positive results, unlike trance states.
. So the progression to realizing the value of 'mindfulness' in its own right, is a relatively small easy step, that doesn't necessitate all the adolescent evaluations in this thread that sound like: my guru is better than your guru, with UG being given top Alpha dog status.
. An advantage of 'mindfulness' practice, is that it is often used in a secular context, which avoids, all the baloney folks get confused by as soon as so called spiritual concerns are raised, prior to both personally experiencing such "things" and being able to put them into regular practice, without which such concerns are all meaningless.
|
RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA
Last seen: 5 hours, 51 minutes
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: OnlyHuman]
#27110783 - 12/27/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OnlyHuman said:
Everyone says that thought is destructive, but what do you do about it?
I don't think that thinking thoughts is necessarily destructive. What would thoughts destroy? I might go along with the idea that thoughts have the potential to cause suffering, depending on perspective we choose to take of them. But we usually take our thoughts quite seriously - of nearly unquestionable authority and truth. The circus of the mind often cultivates voracious bombastic mayhem.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#27110981 - 12/27/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
people pay admission to that circus and are just not aware they are doing it! having paid, they will stick around for a bit of the action. then the aroma of hot dogs will overwhelm the clowns and any elephants in the room.
but thought is amazing - pervasive - and good company.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27111306 - 12/27/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: ...just not aware they are doing it!...
indeed that's the crux of the matter
when seeing
people who love each other arguing with raised defensive voices
totally caught up in unnecessary suffering
and these are educated people
one sees just how important elusive, invisible, untouchable, always silent, awareness is ...
|
Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 3 hours
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27111523 - 12/28/20 12:57 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: what's all this about beta states and a subconscious that can be controlled. There is a tipsy theory with 2 undefined cornerstones.
I'm honestly surprised you're not already aware.
me when ready.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27111728 - 12/28/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
it is important in this thread, maybe, but PM would take this offline, no? is that what you want?
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#27112092 - 12/28/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
OnlyHuman said:
Everyone says that thought is destructive, but what do you do about it?
I don't think that thinking thoughts is necessarily destructive. What would thoughts destroy? I might go along with the idea that thoughts have the potential to cause suffering, depending on perspective we choose to take of them. But we usually take our thoughts quite seriously - of nearly unquestionable authority and truth. The circus of the mind often cultivates voracious bombastic mayhem.
the argument about or against thought in spiritual traditions is
1) most thoughts are about ourselves, and therefore strengthen the self illusion. We are fooled by their superficial content, but the net effect is to strengthen the "separate, permanent, unchanging, self", illusion. (That is the: "I am 'Bill', this is what I believe, this is what I will fight for, this what I want, this is who I was yesterday, this is what I will be tomorrow, and so on ... and on...)
2) Just as we focus on objects (generally) and not on the space around them, just so we identify with thoughts, and ignore the awareness without which they could not be perceived. And as it is awareness that is more "fundamental", we are deluded by distorted views.
Edited by laughingdog (12/28/20 11:32 AM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: laughingdog]
#27112430 - 12/28/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
nicely put, and is awareness other than thought or separate from mind itself?
i.e. in a venn diagram

just threw that together for you,
Thought is the collection of mind forms, including shapes, sounds, progressions, cycles, etc. - anything that can form in mind is thought including all that are shown:
when there is awareness it is equal to any thought as far as it occupies mind (space) but it is the color of naked mind, rather than undifferentiated associative buzz.
when there is meditation it is equal to any thought as far as it occupies mind (space) and it is built of the associative buzz YOKED to breath and or some other body sense, or mental contents.
when there is internal dialog (what gurus tend to call thoughts)it is equal to any thought as far as it occupies mind (space) and it is built of the associative buzz that trails itself like slime mold only much faster. Very handy stuff, until it gets stuck in a loop.
the body and sensation link the mind to the world
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 3 hours
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27113337 - 12/29/20 12:34 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: it is important in this thread, maybe, but PM would take this offline, no? is that what you want?
It's not for this thread, because several times I've gone into depth and people have either misinterpreted what I'm saying, saw what they wanted to see, or completely derailed and devolved the quality of information into a dorm room circle jerk.
Then, when cornered on the contradiction present, people waffle and move goal posts, insisting on talking about low-hanging fruit topics, in which there are already thousands of threads, with thousands of answers, going in circles.
I've been helping people directly via for the last month and giving them the exact information, resources, and coaching they need as an individual. None of that happens whenever I make a thread of a long post, Shroomery doesn't seem to like deep rational discussion that precludes 90% of what they assume they understand.
Take it as you will, I've learned when to display my pearls, and most of the time people insist on behaving like swine.
Yes, that's a conscious judgement tempered with over a decade of professional psychological experience with how people perceive, misperceive, and then apply information.
me if you want to go into detail.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: laughingdog]
#27113430 - 12/29/20 03:23 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
OnlyHuman said:
Everyone says that thought is destructive, but what do you do about it?
I don't think that thinking thoughts is necessarily destructive. What would thoughts destroy? I might go along with the idea that thoughts have the potential to cause suffering, depending on perspective we choose to take of them. But we usually take our thoughts quite seriously - of nearly unquestionable authority and truth. The circus of the mind often cultivates voracious bombastic mayhem.
the argument about or against thought in spiritual traditions is
1) most thoughts are about ourselves, and therefore strengthen the self illusion. We are fooled by their superficial content, but the net effect is to strengthen the "separate, permanent, unchanging, self", illusion. (That is the: "I am 'Bill', this is what I believe, this is what I will fight for, this what I want, this is who I was yesterday, this is what I will be tomorrow, and so on ... and on...)
2) Just as we focus on objects (generally) and not on the space around them, just so we identify with thoughts, and ignore the awareness without which they could not be perceived. And as it is awareness that is more "fundamental", we are deluded by distorted views.

-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27114012 - 12/29/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
|
|
I did PM you but there was nobody at the principal's office, I guess it's a lax time of year.
no matter I edited my venn diagram

the undifferentiated gray area of THOUGHT or mental objects includes any form in mind. I show that the BRAIN contains THOUGHT, and is contained by the body and the world. That representation of containment is challenged by solipsism and theories of simulated universe, but only slightly.
I do not depict soul, or spirit, or a separate mind from BRAIN. That does not mean they do not exist but the BRAIN can represent those as well, even though it is not immortal.
I show that MEMORY resides in BRAIN as an imprint but also as a resource for memory activity (in THOUGHT). I show that SENSATION begins in the world and body and has life and activity in MIND as Thought objects. I also depict PERCEPTION as an associative interaction thought object combining sensation to related memory. Meditation is illustrated as a specific THOUGHT form or pattern of mental activity. It is illustrated touching the part of mind that is connected [or Yoked] to sensation (usually breathing). Awareness is mental content of a type that can pertain to any other mental form yet it has no particular form. It can be easily overcome by a tsunami of other thought forms. Small green thought forms are indicated as mental objects that arise and pass without clear meaning, they are artifacts - easily ignored, produced by the interaction of other mental objects. Obscure feelings and intimations can fall into this category, and one might, in the face of many small green thought forms consider the existence of a subconscious mind, but this is not consistently reliable. I like to pay attention to partials, feelings, and shadowy thought objects because they relate to the self and to the situation and ignoring them can be perilous. It's great when the source thought forms from which the partials evolve are understood, like learning to taste the inside of one's mouth or the smell of one's nose.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27114708 - 12/29/20 06:07 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
|
|
I like this quote on the subject
"thinking about awareness, is not awareness; but awareness of thinking, is awareness"
Which seems to show that all those looking to explain consciousness, (and to find its origin, miss an important point), no matter how high their so called IQ. As any explanation will of course lie within 'the field of thought'; and as the quote hints, awareness is the context for thought and not thought itself. In the same way that space is the context, that makes it possible for objects to exist, but is not itself an object, in spite of being a noun. This point is both simple and subtle and vital, IMO.
Of course it is an annoying truth for the ego, as it wishes to own and grasp things, whether it be actual objects, beliefs, or opinions; and awareness being the ultimate context is devoid of any tangible characteristics, (like color, mass, smell, shape, size, etc., and of course any knowledge or opinions about good & bad, what-so-ever).
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: laughingdog]
#27114722 - 12/29/20 06:25 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
|
|
if awareness were constant I would not have to practice reacquainting.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27114730 - 12/29/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
|
|
there is that consideration, and there is also the question of who is the "I" in: "I would not have to practice reacquainting"
And if there are are those who drop self, then what is it, that is aware, in these cases?
Multiple questions abound...
|
Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 3 hours
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27115243 - 12/29/20 11:56 PM (3 years, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: I did PM you but there was nobody at the principal's office, I guess it's a lax time of year.
no matter I edited my venn diagram

the undifferentiated gray area of THOUGHT or mental objects includes any form in mind. I show that the BRAIN contains THOUGHT, and is contained by the body and the world. That representation of containment is challenged by solipsism and theories of simulated universe, but only slightly.
I do not depict soul, or spirit, or a separate mind from BRAIN. That does not mean they do not exist but the BRAIN can represent those as well, even though it is not immortal.
I show that MEMORY resides in BRAIN as an imprint but also as a resource for memory activity (in THOUGHT). I show that SENSATION begins in the world and body and has life and activity in MIND as Thought objects. I also depict PERCEPTION as an associative interaction thought object combining sensation to related memory. Meditation is illustrated as a specific THOUGHT form or pattern of mental activity. It is illustrated touching the part of mind that is connected [or Yoked] to sensation (usually breathing). Awareness is mental content of a type that can pertain to any other mental form yet it has no particular form. It can be easily overcome by a tsunami of other thought forms. Small green thought forms are indicated as mental objects that arise and pass without clear meaning, they are artifacts - easily ignored, produced by the interaction of other mental objects. Obscure feelings and intimations can fall into this category, and one might, in the face of many small green thought forms consider the existence of a subconscious mind, but this is not consistently reliable. I like to pay attention to partials, feelings, and shadowy thought objects because they relate to the self and to the situation and ignoring them can be perilous. It's great when the source thought forms from which the partials evolve are understood, like learning to taste the inside of one's mouth or the smell of one's nose.
I'm east coast, homie; I'm on here between 1:00AM and 8:00AM EST, every single day.
I PMed you back.
I disagree with your diagram we'll save it for the PM.
Quote:
redgreenvines said: if awareness were constant I would not have to practice reacquainting.
You're making that deduction/assumption from Beta/Waking-Level Consciousness, which is barely the tip of your total consciousness iceberg.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27115755 - 12/30/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 29 days ago) |
|
|
it's better to share than to go to a private room, I have nothing special that I need too pull out.
how is beta waking consciousness even a thing. Beta waves from a non-sleeping person just means more mental activity than while sleeping.
It is not an actual wave form - it is irregular and dense such as what you would expect with a lot of interference from many fading mental objects impinging on each other in the cerebral cortex.
when you say "You're making that deduction/assumption from Beta/Waking-Level Consciousness, which is barely the tip of your total consciousness iceberg." you are attempting to discredit my approach using hi-faluting sounding mumbo jumbo.
it really puts a chill into my consciousness iceberg IYKWIM.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 3 hours
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: redgreenvines]
#27117403 - 12/31/20 01:06 AM (3 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
The point of private discussion is to prevent the person I'm talking to from waffling and bandwaggoning a broken view with others.
You appear to be flexing the choice for keeping it a public display from a place of insecurity of being cornered 1-on-1 about your stances, despite openly claiming otherwise. I see this a lot, as I said I'm a professional. Not a judgement, just a pattern. Confidence is silent. Insecurities are loud.
You, and several others here, have a pattern of appearing defensive when you don't like or agree with what someone is saying, while displaying an enormous amount of close-mindedness not usually found in your other posts. For a forum full of people that have supposedly "experienced ego death" and "transcended duality" via their psych usage, there sure are a lot of people anchored in limited, materialistic assumptions about the nature of reality, and counter-productively and stubbornly so.
It's almost like these topics touch a nerve for you because they bring into question the very foundations of your personal paradigm (most of you are dogmatic materialists/positivists pretending to be otherwise, then get pissed when cornered on this, because the rational "science" you think you're leaning on in defense against these "bullshit topics" is easily shown to be more irrational/contradictory/impossible, and actually less empirical in their assumptions - yes, assumptions (but the math, bro!) - of how reality works).
That was part of the reason for the PM discussion, so we don't have to wade through other people's posts to find our replies to one another.
I will gladly answer all of those questions, in depth right here, when I get a free moment to dive deep and do so. Please forgive me if this doesn't line up with your schedule, as I said in our PM, I'm on here between 2:00 AM - 8:00 AM EST any given day.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
Edited by Loaded Shaman (12/31/20 01:18 AM)
|
Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27117445 - 12/31/20 01:58 AM (3 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
I know what you mean "never got that far" (robbie williams) with philosophy
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Snap out of it! Thought is your enemy! [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27117609 - 12/31/20 06:23 AM (3 years, 28 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: The point of private discussion is to prevent the person I'm talking to from waffling and bandwaggoning a broken view with others.
You appear to be flexing the choice for keeping it a public display from a place of insecurity of being cornered 1-on-1 about your stances, despite openly claiming otherwise. I see this a lot, as I said I'm a professional. Not a judgement, just a pattern. Confidence is silent. Insecurities are loud.
You, and several others here, have a pattern of appearing defensive when you don't like or agree with what someone is saying, while displaying an enormous amount of close-mindedness not usually found in your other posts. For a forum full of people that have supposedly "experienced ego death" and "transcended duality" via their psych usage, there sure are a lot of people anchored in limited, materialistic assumptions about the nature of reality, and counter-productively and stubbornly so.
It's almost like these topics touch a nerve for you because they bring into question the very foundations of your personal paradigm (most of you are dogmatic materialists/positivists pretending to be otherwise, then get pissed when cornered on this, because the rational "science" you think you're leaning on in defense against these "bullshit topics" is easily shown to be more irrational/contradictory/impossible, and actually less empirical in their assumptions - yes, assumptions (but the math, bro!) - of how reality works).
That was part of the reason for the PM discussion, so we don't have to wade through other people's posts to find our replies to one another.
I will gladly answer all of those questions, in depth right here, when I get a free moment to dive deep and do so. Please forgive me if this doesn't line up with your schedule, as I said in our PM, I'm on here between 2:00 AM - 8:00 AM EST any given day.
As mentioned in your PM, you are a psychotherapist, so, I forgive you for trying to diagnose me, along with others who do not share your troubling view of mathematics - that would be a logical approach to handling the insecurity which supplants facts with legendary fantasy. (i.e. if it is legendary it should be at least as good as factual).
But no, imagination is not a valid substitute for factuality even if you feel anxious in the face of the unknown, admitting that it is unknown is a huge step in the right direction AFAIK.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
|