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Narrator
Strangest in the night



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: Northerner] 4
#27109662 - 12/26/20 07:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: It's this sort of nonsense that perpetuates the fallacy that the other sides radicals are worse than your own radicals. Do you really want to try and own these crazy motherfuckers? My bad guys are better than your bad guys? That makes zero sense.
It's not equivalent when the crazies are a fringe on one side and a majority led by the party leader on the other.
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Narrator
Strangest in the night



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: chopstick] 1
#27109678 - 12/26/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: Just because the Judicial system has completely failed the American people does NOT mean that it isn't the truth, my friend.
You are saying to get to the truth, we need to look further than what the media and the politicians we individually respect are saying? That we can't tell we're in a bubble with an echo chamber unless we look outside?
And the entire judicial system and Republican-controlled legislatures of swing states are in the liberal bubble too, so we have to go further than that?
And FOX News, Drudge and Rush Limbaugh, Bill Barr, Mitch McConnell...are they in the bubble or have they been bribed or what?
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Asante
Mage


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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: Northerner] 1
#27109710 - 12/26/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
115 Far right inspired terror incidents. 35% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 29% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 79 deaths. 63 Islamist inspired terror incidents. 76% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 13% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 90 deaths. 19 incidents inspired by left-wing ideologies (and eco-terrorism). 20% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 10% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 7 deaths.
Islamist terror is far right terror from another ethnicity.
Compare these numbers.
They had to add up "eco terrorism" (cutting the hydralics tubes of bulldozers and saving bunnies from a testing lab) to arrive at 19 "left wing terrorism incidents"
The only reason far left terrorism is a big thing in the US is because your former far right president insisted it was a thing.
Its less that 1/12 as fatal as far right and 1/24 that of Far Right + Islamist terrorism.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: Asante]
#27109714 - 12/26/20 08:28 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah Islamic terrorism is a form of right wing terrorism
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Northerner
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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: koods] 1
#27109896 - 12/27/20 12:05 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Narrator said:
Quote:
Northerner said: It's this sort of nonsense that perpetuates the fallacy that the other sides radicals are worse than your own radicals. Do you really want to try and own these crazy motherfuckers? My bad guys are better than your bad guys? That makes zero sense.
It's not equivalent when the crazies are a fringe on one side and a majority led by the party leader on the other.
Political divide is almost equal in the US and party leader politics will soon swing 180. Will that reverse who will be the fringe? Do you think BLM and Antifa will riot and burn cities again when a policeman brutally kills another man next year? Or will they not be the crazies anymore and just be content because they have the majority power? I hope you're spotting the ironies here. Right philosophies are about individualism, so radicals will attack as loners or small groups. Left wing philosophies are about collectivism so people will gather en masse and pillage and burn. They are both as equally fucking crazy, the outcome is the same (mass suffering), the driver is the same (discontentment), it's just the modus operandi is different.
Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
115 Far right inspired terror incidents. 35% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 29% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 79 deaths. 63 Islamist inspired terror incidents. 76% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 13% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 90 deaths. 19 incidents inspired by left-wing ideologies (and eco-terrorism). 20% of these were foiled (meaning no attack happened) and 10% resulted in fatalities. These terror incidents caused 7 deaths.
Islamist terror is far right terror from another ethnicity.
Compare these numbers.
They had to add up "eco terrorism" (cutting the hydralics tubes of bulldozers and saving bunnies from a testing lab) to arrive at 19 "left wing terrorism incidents"
The only reason far left terrorism is a big thing in the US is because your former far right president insisted it was a thing.
Its less that 1/12 as fatal as far right and 1/24 that of Far Right Islamist terrorism.
Let's really compare the numbers... So all in all in this period there was ~200 incident/non incidents in a population of ~328m, resulting in about 160 deaths. That's an extremism attack rate of ~0.00006% in the general population. The logical fallacy that these people are consequential in any way that isn't politically nesting inside people's heads is abundant in this thread. The deaths from lone gunmen with mental issues or gangsters has more of a toll on society in terms of actual bloodshed by orders of magnitude. That's without even taking into account the straight up murders and suicides that are orders of magnitude higher again in terms of societal damage.
The fact that these extremism rates are so significantly low, despite the media fanfare, is evidence that people really aren't that far out, that the vast majority of people just want to live and be happy.
There's a significant media push to inspire fear and uncertainty around these political issues, its valuable in terms of clicks and views, but it's not reality. The reality is that despite the constant bickering on social forums the US is still a relatively peaceful country internally.
The US is also typically a very violent nation, they are the main participant of war internationally since the second world war. As Trump didn't start any new conflicts and started to pull back on many others it's possible that not having a common enemy to unite against may be part of the issue with the infighting as well. The press certainly doesn't know what to do with all this relative international peace.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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my3rdeye



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: Northerner] 3
#27110080 - 12/27/20 04:25 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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The FBI released a sketch of the suspect in Nashville bombing
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: my3rdeye] 1
#27110133 - 12/27/20 05:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don’t see Brian Cranston voting Trump.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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chopstick
nobody



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: Northerner] 1
#27110318 - 12/27/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said:
The US is also typically a very violent nation, they are the main participant of war internationally since the second world war. As Trump didn't start any new conflicts and started to pull back on many others it's possible that not having a common enemy to unite against may be part of the issue with the infighting as well. The press certainly doesn't know what to do with all this relative international peace.
Don't worry, the wars will start back up again the moment Trump leaves office. War is Peace, remember?
Sadly it seems like a lot of people on this board would prefer a literal nuclear holocaust to another 4 years of Trump.
Just goes to show how incredibly effective the propaganda brainwashing has been.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: chopstick] 1
#27110323 - 12/27/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Trump didn't slow down foreign conflict at all
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Psicomb



Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: chopstick] 1
#27110324 - 12/27/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have trouble understanding how Trump being in office 4 more years would prevent any wars or violence. Both sides advocate violence, yes, but cmon, trump isnt trying to prevent shit man. Why you back him so hard is bizarre
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
Edited by Psicomb (12/27/20 08:46 AM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: Psicomb] 1
#27110326 - 12/27/20 08:47 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you believe what you hear at face value it's a lot less difficult
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chopstick
nobody



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: bodhisatta]
#27110334 - 12/27/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Trump didn't slow down foreign conflict at all
But he didn't start any new wars, either. That cannot be said for any previous president in the past like 50 years.
Bush gave us the war on terrorism and the illegal invasions of Iraq & Afghanistan.
Obama gave us the wars in Libya, Syria, and Ukraine, which saw the US deliberately support Al-Qaeda to accomplish their geopolitical goals.
Trump did not start any new wars. True, he didn't end any conflicts either, but to his credit, he did try to pull out of Syria. Things like that are why the establishment truly hate his guts.
He was willing to go against the imperialist grain in *some* instances - and that was enough for them to decide to remove him via voter fraud.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: chopstick] 1
#27110336 - 12/27/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Trump sent cruise missiles on Syria in April 2017, and again in April 2018. He even cobbled together an instant mini coalition of the willing with France and the UK for the occasion.
Now, it is true that there already was a war in Syria that Trump did not start, and it is also true Trump did not start the US involvement in that war. But let’s be specific here. When Obama left office he did not leave Trump with the reality of an ongoing shooting war between the US and Syrian governments.
Sometime in 2012, Obama started the indirect regime-change war against Syria by arming, training, and bankrolling the Sunni Islamist opposition and foreign fighters. However, joining this war directly is a bait he never took. Instead in 2014, he started a direct US “clean up” war against ISIS to roll back some of the worst fallout from his own pro-Islamist proxy war.
Later he on a few occasions also sent missiles and bombers against the Al-Qaeda rebels (starting with the 2015 strikes on the made-up “Khorasan group”).
And as part of the anti-ISIS war the US also several times struck Syrian troops (and one jet) who were deemed to have come “too close” to the Americans as they raced to drive away ISIS and occupy eastern Syria before the Americans.
So then there is no shortage of wars that Obama started in Syria. When all was said and done Obama had at one point indirectly fought for and against every single local faction (government, rebels, ISIS, Kurds) in Syria. (Eg in the northwest around Afrin the US supplied the rebels, but not the Kurds and was thus de facto anti-Kurdish.)
However, entering the war directly on the side of the rebels against the government is a step he never took. In 2013 he accused Syria of using chemical weapons but in the end balked at ushering in a direct state-on-state war, even though he had previously said this was his “red line” at which he would bomb Syria.
When Trump launched his first attack on Syria in 2017 he harkened back to Obama’s refusal to do the same four years earlier and explicitly contrasted himself to his predecessor as someone who would go through with strikes where Obama had failed to follow through.
In other words, even Trump himself was bragging he had started a war Obama had been afraid to.
Trump’s other two wars not started by Obama were on Iraq and Iran. On multiple occasions, Trump bombed the Iraqi Popular Mobilization Front which is a branch of the Iraqi state of the state security forces. Iraq is a weak client-state of the US that aside from loudly protesting did not do much in response (just the paramilitaries themselves), but when you bomb another state’s security forces that is called a war.
As part of the war on the Iraqi PMFs Trump killed their commander, general Muhandis, and the Iranian general Soleimani at Baghdad airport. Soleimani had been on an official visit, having been invited by the Iraqi PM, and Muhandis had been sent to welcome him as he landed. Iran then cruise missiled a US military base in Iraq, but gave advanced warning so the strike resulted only in concussions (about 90 of them) to US troops, but no deaths. The two powers then left it there for the time being.
Bombing your own client state is such a lawless and buffoonish move than the relatively more sophisticated Obama never even entertained it, and where Iran is concerned Obama actually finally defused the situation somewhat with a deal to scale back sanctions.
Trump, who loves nothing more than comparing himself to Obama, tore up that deal and, as said, went so far as to enter into shooting war with Iran, killing its military personnel and having its military injure Americans.
The armed, state-on-state hostilities that Trump started also had an end date, and did not go on to develop into endless quagmire wars (primarily because the states targeted had no interest in a war with the US even when they have every justification to declare one), but that is distinct from saying they never happened
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chopstick
nobody



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Posts: 5,079
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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: Psicomb]
#27110341 - 12/27/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wonder what justification Kamala Harris will use to order the first missile strike on Russian territory, after Joe steps down and she becomes president.
A cyber attack? A false flag? Or maybe just out of pure revenge for their perceived loss in 2016?
What will she tell the American people as she takes them to the brink of nuclear war and total annihilation? "Sorry, I'm putting all your lives at risk because Fuck Russia! We have to stand up to the Evil Russians!"
Fact is, these people taking power now aren't smart enough to avoid war. They are willing to risk everything to prove themselves and maintain American imperial dominance around the planet.
Make no mistake, it will be the United States that fires the first shot, ordered by the Dictator Queen Harris. Russia will then have no choice but to retaliate. It then spirals down from there directly into nuclear war, and then all the horrors that come along with that.
The human race will be paying the price for hundreds of years to come afterwards.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: chopstick]
#27110342 - 12/27/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said:
But he didn't start any new wars, either. That cannot be said for any previous president in the past like 50 years.
Lol wut. Like I said easy to support when you believe random false crap you hear. Big myth circulated among trump supporters. But you Can literally watch video of his wars
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chopstick
nobody



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: bodhisatta] 2
#27110344 - 12/27/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bodhisatta, not a single bit of that shit changes the fact that Trump did not start any new wars, while Obama on the other hand started 3, by literally supporting Neo-Nazis in the Ukraine and literal terrorists in Syria, including some of the same groups who claimed responsibility for 9/11.
Trump was a fucking saint compared to Obama. As for those ineffective missile strikes he ordered on Syria, those were mostly for show. They caused very little damage to the Syrian military, and he was egged on to do so by the mainstream media after a CIA-ran false flag involving chemical weapons, when in reality it was the CIA-backed terrorist groups responsible for this chemical weapons use.
True, Trump isn't that smart and he let himself get tricked into bombing Syria twice by the CIA. But he still didnt start any new wars, and there is absolutely nothing you can say to change that.
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chopstick
nobody



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Posts: 5,079
Loc: Chin's Wok
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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: bodhisatta]
#27110346 - 12/27/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
chopstick said:
But he didn't start any new wars, either. That cannot be said for any previous president in the past like 50 years.
Lol wut. Like I said easy to support when you believe random false crap you hear. Big myth circulated among trump supporters. But you Can literally watch video of his wars
I am afraid you are the one perpetrating misinformation. He inherited numerous wars that were started by Obama. Stop trying to distort reality. I'm afraid you don't get to openly lie like this and get away with it, my friend.
Continuing or staying a part of a past war started by a previous president is not the same as starting a brand new one.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: chopstick]
#27110347 - 12/27/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I posted my reply for people who can read well. I know there's no getting through to you despite replying to you.
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chopstick
nobody



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: chopstick]
#27110366 - 12/27/20 09:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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True, Trump did *almost* start a hot war with Iran. However, after the missile strike on the US Airbase both parties wisely decided to step back from the brink. There is a big difference between *almost* starting a war and actually starting one.
As for bombing the PMF forces in Iraq, this was going on under Obama too, it just wasn't as overt and blatant.
There can be no doubt that Trump is an idiot. However, he didn't start any hot wars that directly involved the US military going to war with the military of another country.
The truth is that although Trump did some bombings here and there and some outrageously stupid things like assassinating the legendary Iranian commander Soleimani, he still did not start any hot wars which would have left the US embroiled for decades to come like both Bush and Obama.
Obama, on the other hand launched a massive and sustained bombing campaign on Libya which lasted for months and saw the country reduced to rubble and turned into a country which was basically ran by jihadist warlords, where slaves could literally be sold on open markets. This is Obama's legacy. Trump didn't do anything that even came close to what Obama did to Libya - and that's just ONE COUNTRY, let alone the absolute shitshow that the Obama administration managed to do to both Ukraine and Syria.
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chopstick
nobody



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Re: How many people do you know that are banging the Civil War 2 drum? [Re: bodhisatta]
#27110370 - 12/27/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I posted my reply for people who can read well. I know there's no getting through to you despite replying to you.
Yeah, except the information in your reply deliberately conflates a few one-off operations with "starting wars." There is a difference. And it's a pretty big fucking difference.
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