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OfflineMessiah of Savants
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Registered: 07/02/08
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mind.at.large] * 1
    #27092679 - 12/16/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mind.at.large said:
Great LC tips y'all! I'll have to take another shot with LC soon

Also, the bags seems to be colonizing nicely and most of them were ready for a shake today. I didn't get any pics of the bags (I'm so bad at taking pics) but I did take some pics of how I cram 13 bags into my Presto 23


I basically took Teds method of cramming bags into the All American 75x, but with the Presto. Oh, and these are 2 lb bags, so half as much as Ted is doing. I'm thinking I might be able to fit a few more in there, maybe sticking to another 5 on the top layer instead of 3 but I haven't tried it yet




I hate jars for bulk growing, but they are great for storage, LC's, small isolations, masters, and experiments. Bags changed by life.

I've always been paranoid about the bags touching the sides and heat penetration between bags so I have always used jar lid rings to insert between the bags and sides and also between the bags to allow steam through. I'll even use some tin foil. I burst a bag in my Presto in my first few years of this hobby and I have been paranoid ever since. I also use the old school RR technique of sticking a tyvek sleeve in the bag for the cooldown. Not sure if this is needed, just something I've always done for piece of mind.

Now that I think about it, I think it burst because I ran it too hot and ran out of water. This thread has made me re-evaluate how I've been doing things. If you don't have any troubles and also don't use any spacing between the bags, maybe I should try it. It would allow more grain and less jimmy work of inserting rings and foil.

I should just buy a new damn gas regulator and tank of propane to use my 1941X in the garage, but I just don't grow the crazy amounts I use to anymore. I moved two years ago and this new place has a microwave above the stove and the 1941X won't fit under it. :frown:

I don't seal my bags. I use rubber bands and re-use the bags because I'm just that kind of guy. Depending on your source, some are thicker and make me less paranoid about re-using them, but I've still never had a problem with a single bag bursting from re-use. I've only ever bought bags twice in my entire 13 years of growing. The first was an order of 10 thick ones. Second was an order of 100 thinner ones. I'm still waiting for one of them to burst one of these days. I think it's 100% safe to re-use the bags at least 2-3 times though. Even the thin ones. I wonder how much, if any, more stress is put on the bags over time by putting them against the PC wall.

Btw, thanks again for the PE print. It's most of what I've been growing this last year. :smile:


Edited by Messiah of Savants (12/16/20 06:09 PM)


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Messiah of Savants]
    #27092710 - 12/16/20 06:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I was hesitant to use bags due to many of the things you mentioned, such as bags can't touch the sides of the PC, I need to use spacers, the bags will burst, and the whole tyvek sleeve filter thing, but to be honest, I have yet to do or worry about any of that stuff and have yet to have a problem. I use the 3 mil bags, so I feel a little better about abusing them and every once in a while, one gets a hole in it, and only 3 have ever ripped on me. Most of the problems I've had with them has been me fucking up sealing.

But reusing bags?!? That sounds like a great idea! I'm always more worried about filter failure than the bags ripping but if it's working for you, I'll definitely look into that. I was thinking of turning them from spawn bags to more of a substrate bags and growing edibles off blocks, but I haven't done that yet. The bags themselves seem pretty sturdy after the PC cycle so I don't see why not

Also, you're welcome for that print, I'm glad to hear it worked out for you but it's funny cause I was just talking to Ted about this, but how are your fruits looking? Those prints came off a second flush PE monster that just happened to drop spores, so I printed a bunch and then passed them around. But when I grew them myself, they seemed to produce just normal looking cubes, nothing resembling PE. I was calling it PE revert in my collection and I did grow a decent amount off it, but I really didn't get anything PE like from it. I'm wondering how yours are looking


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Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers


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InvisibleQM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27092766 - 12/16/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

So to clarify you aren't using spacers in your pc? 3 hour cook?

And for real re using a bag? I've tried but it's not super easy getting the block out to fruit, doesn't mean it can't be done maybe by adding water or even just fruiting in the bag.
But then cleaning the bag.., and then to seal or not?


Yes to the finger slurry! I actually did that today a little naturally, and it was my first time inoculating bags actually. I'm pretty confident it should work, I've done hundreds of jars in front of that flow hood so, it's just a bag ha.

Nice!!!


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
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          there are also unknown unknowns.
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InvisibleQM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27092778 - 12/16/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

And I'm right there with you on switching from jars to bags, it cost me like 7 bucks in bags to fill 6 23quarts, but I can cook 50lbs of grains at once, don't have to wash anything, literally pays for itself in time them some right there, have to load half as many vessels, with twice as much grain. Saves work in front of the flow hood, and storage which moving forward means alot, for the hobby grower I would still go jars probably, and tyvek or polyfil lol.


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns,
          there are also unknown unknowns.
With great privilege comes great responsibility.

Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops
Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes!
No Pours (QuantomStyal)
Magic Fruit Leather
DMT for IandI


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: QM33]
    #27092977 - 12/16/20 08:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yes i do not use any spacers as I cook. And I usually go for 2.5 hours at 18-19 psi. I use a few coins to hold down the jiggle weight to get it up to that high psi.

In terms of reusing bags, what I'm thinking, now that I hear from Messiah about reusing, is to turn them into Lion's mane fruiting blocks, as in sterilize substrate, inject LC, then fruit straight out of the bag in a greenhouse, but this is just an idea


--------------------
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OfflineMessiah of Savants
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27093069 - 12/16/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mind.at.large said:
Also, you're welcome for that print, I'm glad to hear it worked out for you but it's funny cause I was just talking to Ted about this, but how are your fruits looking? Those prints came off a second flush PE monster that just happened to drop spores, so I printed a bunch and then passed them around. But when I grew them myself, they seemed to produce just normal looking cubes, nothing resembling PE. I was calling it PE revert in my collection and I did grow a decent amount off it, but I really didn't get anything PE like from it. I'm wondering how yours are looking




I ran 18 jars with different sectors from 3 different petri dishes looking for good genetics to clone. Only a couple of them had the classic PE look of bumpy/bulging stipe just under the cap, "darth vader helmet" cap, and thick meaty stems. The traits weren't as pronounced as I've seen them in the past though. Most of the rest had some hints at PE looking caps with normal stipes. A couple didn't look like PE at all with normal stipes and normal caps. You could definitely tell there was some PE genetics in there, but this is the first time I've grown PE that had so much "non PE" type growth.

I was reading a month or two back (in the melmac thread I think) about some of the new PE going around had reverted and lost some of it's traditional PE traits. There is melmac spores coming my way from a giveaway (I think you got some too if I remember correctly) that are suppose to be the OG genetics? I'm excited to try them.


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Offlinedingdonger22
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Registered: 12/14/20
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Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
    #27093227 - 12/16/20 10:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Wait are you saying you stir the LC 10-15 minutes every hour of the day? I am so confused as to how often it should be stirred.


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: dingdonger22]
    #27093235 - 12/16/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah! I totally got that melmac swab and put it to plates yesterday! I'm excited to mess around with those genetics.

But I'm glad you we're able to get actual PE-like genetics out of that print. Like I mentioned, all I got we're normal cubensis, but maybe I just didn't get lucky with my strain isolation. I still have some of those prints, so maybe I'll mess around with it and see what comes from it! I've always wanted (and so has everyone) to get a PE potent fruit that drops a normal amount of spores, so maybe we can find that in those spores.


--------------------
Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers


Endless Sub Tek


...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...


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OfflineHaywire
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Registered: 12/29/13
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: dingdonger22]
    #27093304 - 12/17/20 12:09 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dingdonger22 said:
Wait are you saying you stir the LC 10-15 minutes every hour of the day? I am so confused as to how often it should be stirred.




that's how I do it, yes. but they can be stirred much more but also less.
It doesn't matter that much. however, it has to be stirred/shaken/swirled daily.


--------------------
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Offlinedingdonger22
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Haywire]
    #27100764 - 12/21/20 11:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Oh wow, thanks :smile:


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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Posts: 1,218
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: dingdonger22]
    #27101751 - 12/21/20 09:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Update: one of the bags is now damn near finished. It’s been 10 days, which isn’t nothing to get too excited about, but shit, 10 days for 2 lbs of grains, with only an agar plate inoculation isn’t bad. Usually my jars take about 2-2.5 weeks to complete with agar inoculation, plus these bags have twice as much grains, so I’m liking this method



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Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers


Endless Sub Tek


...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...


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Offlineverum subsequentis
seeker of truth
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Registered: 03/22/16
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27102449 - 12/22/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

:superthrust:


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OfflineShakedown Street
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27104366 - 12/23/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Besides applying a micropore-tape patch, what other steps would need to be taken if you substitute a ziploc plastic bag for a plastic myco. bag ?


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Shakedown Street]
    #27104384 - 12/23/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

How are u gonna sterilize that?


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
    #27104419 - 12/23/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ziplock plastic bags are not a good substitute for myco bags. Maybe oven bags would work but just get proper myco bags. They are cheap and easy to find


--------------------
Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers


Endless Sub Tek


...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Shakedown Street]
    #27104430 - 12/23/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shakedown Street said:
Besides applying a micropore-tape patch, what other steps would need to be taken if you substitute a ziploc plastic bag for a plastic myco. bag ?




Discovering a way to sterilized the inside of grain without applying high heat for extended time periods. Have fun.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27104544 - 12/23/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm trying to get into bags I just don't know where to start.
I have them, I have everything I need for them actually.
I just can't find enough info to being anywhere.


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mushhead] * 1
    #27104914 - 12/23/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I put four full quarts in to each bag.
Fold gussets as nicely as possible.
10 bags fit in my 941 and 9 in my 75x.
Bottom three het the accordion fold and any bags on top of those jus get nicely rolled.
Carefully place all bags in cookers without fucking up the gussets.
Place lid on nice and level, turn heat on high, open stop cock and tighten lid.
Wait for visible steam and then let steam for at least ten minutes.
Once air is purged (10 minutes is over) close stop cock.
Allow to come to 15 psi and set a timer for 3 and a half hours.
Make adjustments as needed to keep pressure above 15 and under "caution".
Once timer is over, kill heat. Walk away, crack a beer and check in on the ongoing coup.
let it naturally come to pressure and then have another beer.
Once mildly cooled I carry it to the flow (pre cleaned and running).
I download bags With gloved and isoed hands. I also iso my hand up to the elbow.
Stack in the flow and walk away. Have another beer.
Come back and check the bag temps and realize they cool slow as fuck as my balls.
Have another beer and then have another.... and another.
Realize that you are now drunk and the bags still aren't cool.
Go to bed and noc them up in the morning.
LC does NOT LIKE going into hot bags.
Grain to grain doesn't mind as much.
The bags will read much hotter once mixed so... there's that too.
The seal them with an impulse sealer.
Tape, close pins, zip ties, bag clips.... can also work but a nice sealer is the shit.


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OfflineShakedown Street
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mushhead]
    #27104921 - 12/23/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, so myco. bag plastic holds up the heat of a PC for an hour and ziploc bags won't ? 

On Nov. 1, 2019, I had a ziploc bag of WBS w/ mycelium growing in it.  It was either quart-sized or gallon-sized, I don't remember.  I couldn't remember where it came from, and deduced that it was leftover from WBS I had hydrated and sterilized in my PC @ 15 PSI for 90 min.

Then on Christmas of 2019,  I was stoked because I got this ziploc bag filled with mycelium and broke it into 6 quart Mason jars -- 3 WBS and 3 popcorn.  I called it my "white Christmas".

Then I tried to up my sterilized-grain production game by sterilizing a 2.5 gallon ziploc bag containing grain in a PC at 15 PSI for 90 minutes on December 29th.    When the PC cooled to room temperature I opened it and discovered that both ziploc bags had melted and fused together,
spilling grains out.

So, in hindsight, maybe I had sprayed the inside of the first ziploc with isopropyl alcohol to sterilize it.  I don't remember.

Do the myco. plastic bags hold up to 15 PSI pressure in the PC for 90 minutes ?  Is there something special you have to do to them in order to make them endure that much heat for that long ?


Edited by Shakedown Street (12/23/20 09:18 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Shakedown Street] * 1
    #27104967 - 12/23/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I dunno what’s going on but it’s too easy for me to cram bags into my 75x now. I do 10 with the liner in. Going to run some supplemented blocks soon and see if I can jam 13 without a liner.


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