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OfflineShoogazi
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Registered: 12/17/20
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Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe
    #27101642 - 12/21/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Hello Shroomery! noob here. Pleased to meet ya.
I am planning on preparing my fist aya brew sometime in the next few months, a decision i am not taking lightly and have spent months on researching. Despite this a lot of the information I've come across thus far has been quite overwhelming and at times, contradictory. I was wondering if anyone on here might have any advice, anecdotes and insights. I'm nearly ready to start ordering ingredients but there's still some aspects I'd like to iron out to figure what would work best for me in my situation. I should preface that I do have prior experience with hallucinogens, including freebase DMT, however I generally have a low tolerance when it comes to substances.

-For starters, which DMT plant or possible admixtures would you recommend?
Ideally I wouldn't even ask this and would stick with P.Viridis to keep it as authentic as possible, however the numerous reports I've seen of mail order dried leaves being psychoactively inert, even from otherwise trusted vendors has me somewhat trepidatious. I'm leaning closer to MHRB but it seems to have a higher propensity of freak outs associated with it (but i suppose that could still happen with OG Aya as well? so does that even matter?)Are there any discernible differences between the plants, do they add a different character to the trip? Perhaps I could just mix small amount of Chali,Chacruna and mimosa and see what happens, but im not sure if thats a smart move for a first time?

-How necessary is the 3X3 boiling technique?
The only reason I ask is because a close family member is already doing me the good grace of hosting me and trip sitting for my journey. I'd rather not continue to impose by also occupying their kitchen space for 9+ hours if i can avoid it. I'm also not able to brew it at home beforehand due to children. could one do maybe a 3hr>1h>1hr wash and boil and achieve an acceptable product?

-Any discernible differences between mixing the MAOI and DMT brews or drinking them separately? Which would you recommend?

-How bad does the taste compare to say a strong Calea Zacatechichi tea?

-Any particular vendors you trust or to steer clear from?


and last but not least

-Besides Icaros, what kind of music would you recommend? if any?
I was thinking maybe some Devendra Banhart or The Microphones but I'm open to any other reccs! (:

Thank you for playing 20 questions with me and dealing with my over-meticulous self. Also apologizing in advance if some of these questions were easily answered in another thread, I used the search function I swear! Thank you all for any help and suggestions you have!


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Shoogazi]
    #27102230 - 12/22/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I can probably help a little bit!

DMT admixture:

this is the hardest question for home brewed ayahuasca in my opinion. I have scarcely encountered dry chacruna leaves with significant potency. you can always just use more, but you have to know the rough potency before even doing the math for that. I don’t recommend mhrb for this, unfortunately. it is different... it’s not just more prone to freak outs or something like that, it is fundamentally different from a traditional brew made with chacruna (autocorrect desperately wants ‘chacruna’ to become ‘chad tuna,’ thought I should mention that). there aren’t any easy answers for this problem.

though I do have one or two suggestions... I have had immense success with drinking a caapi brew (no admixture) then smoking freebase dmt. this seems like it got to the core of what I have always wanted from ayahuasca, but I haven’t met anyone else who has even tried this. for me, it gave me an element of control over the breakthrough I have never experienced. it’s worth trying in my opinion.

another suggestion is to consume the dmt freebase orally in a capsule after drinking the caapi. I don’t know dosage numbers off hand, but I know freebase DMT is active orally with an MAOI.

3x3 boiling:

I would say it’s necessary to boil the caapi 3x with fresh water. if your caapi is not shredded (don’t get shredded) you can leave the stems soaking in water overnight, then use a good knife to split the stems and break them up into the water as best you can. this is done in cold/room temp water before the cook, so theoretically you could do this part at home before you get to your host’s. in my experience, getting something to a good (but low) boil and leaving it for about 10-15min is definitely good enough for a ‘pull.’ you don’t need to cook the plants for several hours, just multiple times with fresh water.

the real time sink is the concentration. you need to cook down all your pulls together to get it to a drinkable amount (1 or 2 shot glass’ worth = 1 dose) and this takes all day. it’s just how it is, there is really no other way. you can find some info on cold water caapi extractions, some have had success with that.

no matter what it is going to be time consuming, you’ll need a lot of water to get all the caapi extracted, and you’ll need to concentrate that water to drink it. you mentioned not being able to do this at home because of children? really this is no more intense or dangerous than making a big pot of soup, functionally. I guess I get it if you don’t want to explain what this is to the kids, but I think honesty is incredibly valuable especially to children. not my place though, lol sorry.

you may have to get with your host and arrange for this to be a two day thing. one day to cook it and bottle it, another day to take it. or just be straight up about everything you need to do! if you start this process in the morning, it’ll be ready to drink by early/mid evening, and you’ll be ready to go home by morning. get all this out on the table well before you start cooking.

mixing/drinking separate:

I have always drunk the teas separately, never once mixed them. I was under the impression that you need a little time for the MAOI to really kick in before consuming the DMT admixture to get the most out of the plants.

taste:

lol... it’s not as bad as calea, I promise. calea is just unbelievably terrible. san pedro is much worse than ayahuasca also. I actually appreciate the taste of a well made caapi brew. it’s very bitter, but it’s interesting. if you have drunk calea zacatechichi tea you can handle almost anything taste-wise.

vendors:

I really don’t know anymore :/ it’s been a number of years, sorry I can’t help here!

music:

make several playlists with different moods and vibes. you really have no idea which direction this experience will go, so be prepared. you may choose to not listen to music at all! try to make your method of choosing and playing music as simple as possible, obviously. maybe see if your host will play music for you (by request only, and only if they can stay out of the way of the rest of your trip too!)

I have had experiences where I wouldn’t dream of turning on music because the audio component of the experience is so powerful on its own. I have also had experiences where I end up listening to something completely unexpected like gregorian chanting or bach (I am normally not really into that shit).


I hope these answers help a little bit! it makes me happy people are still home brewing ayahuasca...


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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27102308 - 12/22/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Are the kids going to want to drink that nasty shit?


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OfflineShoogazi
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Registered: 12/17/20
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27102347 - 12/22/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

ReoSpeedwagon153 said:
Quote:

I don’t recommend mhrb for this, unfortunately. it is different... it’s not just more prone to freak outs or something like that, it is fundamentally different from a traditional brew made with chacruna



From browsing Nexus and the Ayahuasca.com forums open to the public, (are they still active? i tried registering weeks ago and they still haven't sent a confirmation) this seems to be the general consensus regarding mimosa among seasoned aya users. On the flipside it seems like folks here and on Erowid like using it like its going out of style. I'd just hate to spend all this time and energy into what could be a dud batch of leaves. I've also considered using Acacia however there seems to be little information on it in regards to Caapi vine brews. Most of what I've seen is its use for extraction teks and syrian rue "anahuasca" recipes which i'm not interested in trying until after this experience. I have read it supposedly "lighter" than mimosa but the lack of info on it is discouraging. Ultimately this just seems to be a crapshoot and I'm just gonna have to hope I dont get burned (monetarily and spiritually lol)


Quote:


though I do have one or two suggestions... I have had immense success with drinking a caapi brew (no admixture) then smoking freebase dmt. this seems like it got to the core of what I have always wanted from ayahuasca, but I haven’t met anyone else who has even tried this. for me, it gave me an element of control over the breakthrough I have never experienced. it’s worth trying in my opinion.

another suggestion is to consume the dmt freebase orally in a capsule after drinking the caapi. I don’t know dosage numbers off hand, but I know freebase DMT is active orally with an MAOI.




I'd still very much like to try it in the traditional(ish) tea fashion first. And while my wife is absolutely supportive of me doing the Aya ceremony she's not comfortable with me extractions quite yet due to said kids and potential legal ramifications which I sympathize with completely. If i ever do freebase again, its going to be made by me even if i have to wait some 10 years or so. That said I am very interested in trying this whenever that time comes (:


Quote:

if your caapi is not shredded (don’t get shredded)



Are there practical reasons for this? Does preshredded have a lower yield? Or is this primarily for speaking intentions and such into the vine? Not that i"m opposed to that, it just seems preshredded is a little easier to get a hold of than whole vine :p

Quote:

you mentioned not being able to do this at home because of children? really this is no more intense or dangerous than making a big pot of soup, functionally. I guess I get it if you don’t want to explain what this is to the kids, but I think honesty is incredibly valuable especially to children. not my place though, lol sorry.



No they are very young right now (Both under 4) and also incredibly precocious and like to get into things.(especially if you specifically dont want them to, little rascals)it would be one thing if this was maybe a 2 or 3 hour ordeal, but a whole other thing to monitor both the brew and them for most of the day. Plus i'm sure my wife wouldnt be too pleased with me commandeering her kitchen for that length of time, its very much her domain lol.
That said I will absolutely be instilling my kids with the proper knowledge and respect for substances when that times come (:

Quote:

you may have to get with your host and arrange for this to be a two day thing. one day to cook it and bottle it, another day to take it. or just be straight up about everything you need to do! if you start this process in the morning, it’ll be ready to drink by early/mid evening, and you’ll be ready to go home by morning. get all this out on the table well before you start cooking.




I was half expecting this to likely be the case and have already told my host everything we could be potentially in for. I'm just trying my best to be as conscientious of a guest as possible. 


Quote:

lol... it’s not as bad as calea, I promise. calea is just unbelievably terrible.



Good to know that chugging that vile shit wasn't in vain and was preparing me for even bigger things! as a side note I've found milk and honey helps it go down a little easier (ie NOT better) should you ever have the wild hair to try it again!



Quote:

I hope these answers help a little bit! it makes me happy people are still home brewing ayahuasca...




They've helped tremendously, thank you for your time!


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Shoogazi]
    #27102410 - 12/22/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I highly recommend Acacia Confusa. I've used both Mimosa, and Acacia, haven't yet tried Chaliponga or Chacruna, but Acacia is divine and mystical, very sacred. Mimosa is good too, i've never had an issue with it, it's not dark or freaky to me, anymore than oral DMT in general is anyways. I'm pretty sure each plant has it's own uniqueness, but there's nothing wrong with analog plants, i think traditional Aya is way too hyped and there's a lot of room for working with analog plants and even Psilohuasca. But as far as Mimosa vs Acacia goes, i'd go for the Acacia, i prefer it over Mimosa. Just note that Mimosa and Acacia contain a lot of tannins, so i would recommend freezing/thawing/filtering the brewed and concentrated tea 1 to 3 times to make it a bit more palatable. You can also try adding sugar and some milk or creamer to a warm/hot dose of Mimosa or Acacia tea and it also makes things more palatable.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Shoogazi] * 1
    #27102488 - 12/22/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Here is the traditional method, with pix, from start to finish.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26257635#26257635

You might want to read this as well: 

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26216646#26216646

And the Nexus is always a GREAT source of info.  For Aya, see:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8972


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Shoogazi]
    #27103679 - 12/23/20 08:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I recommend whole caapi for both those reasons. in my experience it is noticeably less potent, and I think it is a good practice to break the stems yourself - I guess for intention/spiritual reasons. without trying to impart my personal relationship with b caapi onto you, I believe there is something important about splitting the stems yourself. but if shredded caapi is easier to obtain, it will be fine and you should go with that. it’s possible the shredded caapi available today is better handled than it was back when I was sampling it.

I have never tried acacia confusa, but I can confirm easily that mhrb really does the trick. it’s hard to explain what is different about it from chacruna but to me it always felt like it doesn’t quite get along with the caapi, if that even means anything. if you are interested in traditional ayahuasca, you’re going to want chacruna I think. in the past, a few people have suggested that vendors know what kind of potency their plants are carrying and impart that information in the prices. if some chacruna is very inexpensive, it means it is less potent. with a lot of research you might be able to get an idea of the potency of your p viridis by comparing prices, though that doesn’t seem very reassuring.

I really want you to be able to brew your ayahuasca with p viridis and be confident in the strength, but I don’t know if that is possible. and that’s kind of the thing with this... it took me about five different tries to finally get my ratios and techniques down to where I could be confident in my brew. and while each of these experiences was underwhelming, I learned a lot. the experiences were also very positive and had noticeable, long term positive effects (one of these early ‘underwhelming’ ayahuasca experiences actually caused me to quit smoking cigarettes for the next ten years).

here’s one idea - if you have the option, maybe order double or triple the plants you believe you will need - especially the chacruna. if you keep your teas separate, you could brew a very strong p viridis tea, and use that to dial in the intensity of your trip. if I remember right it should take about 30-45min after drinking for the effects of the admixture to begin, so if it has been an hour and the chacruna seems weak you could drink some more.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27103722 - 12/23/20 08:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Well ya know Chaliponga is also considered traditional in Ayahuasca instead of using the Chacruna, Chaliponga is said to be more potent and consistent, but also is said to have some differences compared to Chacruna.


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Sabnock]
    #27103741 - 12/23/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

ah yeah I forgot about chaliponga.

I tried it twice but I am sure I never used enough plant material since it was significantly more expensive than chacruna. I have never heard that it is more consistent with potency but if that is the case it sounds like it’s the way to go.

this thread has convinced me I should revisit this whole thing in the near future! I think it has been almost 15 years for me...


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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27104333 - 12/23/20 02:35 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah Chaliponga is apparently more potent and seems to be more consistently potent compared to Chacruna from what i've read. But i hear there's certain varieties of Chaliponga and Chacruna that are the best, i think they're like Hawaiian strains or something.

Also someone made a post about Acacia and Caapi over at the Nexus, sounds like they get together pretty well - https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1087744#post1087744


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OfflineSWEA-T
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Sabnock]
    #27105564 - 12/24/20 10:21 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I’m prepping myself for my first brew as well. In the middle of a strict diet and meditative period. My plan is to use b. Caapi and Acacia Confusa. Seems like a lot of people have had great results using acacia and Syrian rue. Haven’t come across any teks that have caapi and acacia but chemically speaking it should work and spiritually speaking the entire process is positive so I’m happy to piece together the info I can find and experiment. I’ll be back to let you know how it goes after January 18.


--------------------
respect and politeness
are enough to start to light this
darkened wood we’ve wandered long enough come on and try this
say please and thank you
daily express your gratitude
and if you don’t feel grateful it’s so easy to change your attitude
just sit inside the silence
with our  ally psilocybin
with an open heart deep inside you might just find it


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: SWEA-T]
    #27105580 - 12/24/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SWEA-T said:
I’m prepping myself for my first brew as well. In the middle of a strict diet and meditative period. My plan is to use b. Caapi and Acacia Confusa. Seems like a lot of people have had great results using acacia and Syrian rue. Haven’t come across any teks that have caapi and acacia but chemically speaking it should work and spiritually speaking the entire process is positive so I’m happy to piece together the info I can find and experiment. I’ll be back to let you know how it goes after January 18.




please do! I am very interested in how yours and anyone else’s brew works out.

you are planning to use p harmala and acacia? that is like bible-huasca, right? mount sinai-ahuasca? I can’t think of any more...


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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


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OfflineSWEA-T
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153] * 1
    #27105954 - 12/24/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I’m going to use B.Caapi and Acacia Confusa. So it does have the aya part but a different DMT source. I’m not sure exactly what you would call this. Some mixture of aya/formosahuasca.


--------------------
respect and politeness
are enough to start to light this
darkened wood we’ve wandered long enough come on and try this
say please and thank you
daily express your gratitude
and if you don’t feel grateful it’s so easy to change your attitude
just sit inside the silence
with our  ally psilocybin
with an open heart deep inside you might just find it


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: SWEA-T]
    #27106224 - 12/24/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SWEA-T said:
I’m going to use B.Caapi and Acacia Confusa. So it does have the aya part but a different DMT source. I’m not sure exactly what you would call this. Some mixture of aya/formosahuasca.




You still call it Ayahuasca, because it contains Ayahuasca aka Caapi, the different admixture doesn't make it not Ayahuasca, they say as long as it contains Caapi, it's Ayahuasca, because Caapi is Ayahuasca. I say it's the Harmalas in the general that makes it Ayahuasca, not just Caapi, but Rue too, they're just analog/different plants with the same actives, sure there are differences but ime Rue is just as capable of the same stuff as Caapi, because it's the Harmalas that are most important, but the other compounds in the plant that differs from other compounds in other plants are important too, but imo they aren't what makes Ayahuasca, Ayahuasca, the Harmalas are what makes it Ayahuasca, but that's neither here nor there lol. So yeah, Caapi with Acacia is still just as much Ayahuasca as Caapi with Chacruna or Chaliponga, may not be a traditional brew, but it is Ayahuasca none the less.


--------------------


Edited by Sabnock (12/24/20 05:51 PM)


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OfflineShoogazi
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Sabnock]
    #27109605 - 12/26/20 07:25 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you all for your counsel!
After a little more reading into Acacia i've decided I'm going to use it for my journey. After much thought and deliberation i've decided theres not much point into over analyzing dosages and which admixtures to use. Whatever happens, happens; and it will be a learning experience regardless. I'm going to have to leave some of this up to fate and the plant spirit itself.

The recipe i think i've settled on is

-50 grams caapi (Whole, self shredded as suggested by Mr. Speedwagon)
- ~4-6 grams acacia
- ~25-30 grams chacruna

Caapi will be smashed night before cook with a rock or hammer and allowed to soak over night
cook will begin following morning approximately 9am with the 3X3 method, lemon juice/vinegar added each wash. Chacruna and acacia will share a pot. After reduction near the end, acacia/chacruna brew will be poured into a french press with a cheese cloth around the filter and stuck in the freezer for ~30 minutes. Press, pour, and enjoy both brews separately. Journey should hypothetically begin by 8pm.

The possible outcomes i've considered from this method would be

A)Both Acacia and Chacruna are active and I have a fairly intense experience
B) Only Acacia is active and I have a moderate experience
C) Neither are active and I have weak/no experience
D) I have no experience because I am a bad Huasca cook
E) Nothing happens at all because customs are asshats

F) Regardless of what happens, I learn something.

If there any suggestions or tweaks I should make to this prep, please let me know! And as always thanks for your help!


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Shoogazi]
    #27109701 - 12/26/20 08:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

best results I have had with whole caapi is when I let it soak for a couple hours then start splitting the vine segments along the grains of the wood. smashing with a rock or a hammer could help, but I have always had a pretty easy time getting it into appropriate size strips with a knife by just splitting the pieces along the grain several times. you’ll see what I mean...

everything else sounds perfect and I wish you the best of luck! the outcome you listed in which nothing happens because you failed at brewing is not a realistic result. if it doesn’t work, it’s bc of something else - your brewing technique sounds fine, and it seems like you understand how this works well enough to easily handle any unexpected issues you run into.


--------------------
“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


Edited by ReoSpeedwagon153 (12/26/20 08:28 PM)


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OfflineSWEA-T
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: Shoogazi]
    #27254109 - 03/15/21 02:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Hey shoo how did this go for you? I Haven’t gotten to work with mine yet. Had a relapse and went down a bit of a hole for a minute (one of the main reasons I want to work with this plant spirit)


--------------------
respect and politeness
are enough to start to light this
darkened wood we’ve wandered long enough come on and try this
say please and thank you
daily express your gratitude
and if you don’t feel grateful it’s so easy to change your attitude
just sit inside the silence
with our  ally psilocybin
with an open heart deep inside you might just find it


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OfflineShoogazi
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Re: Some questions regarding first time Ayahuasca recipe [Re: SWEA-T]
    #27265733 - 03/23/21 09:03 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Unfortunately I haven't been able to perform my ceremony yet either. My materials have only just arrived last week (customs held it for 2 months!!) and I had other circumstances come about that would make it a really bad time to try this right now.

As soon as I am able to I will report back here!


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