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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27121159 - 01/01/21 09:15 PM (3 years, 26 days ago)

Read the thread


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27121161 - 01/01/21 09:15 PM (3 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Relevant:

https://www.dailyposter.com/p/schumer-begins-2021-promising-to

Schumer begins 2021 promising to fight, then immediately caves.




Quoted for posterity.


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OnlineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27121167 - 01/01/21 09:26 PM (3 years, 26 days ago)

Well yes that would probably be the best thing to do it's just this thread is a lot of back and forth about a lot of different things.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] * 2
    #27121192 - 01/01/21 09:48 PM (3 years, 26 days ago)

Welcome to the sub forum


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OnlineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27123028 - 01/03/21 12:58 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

So I just barely noticed that I got $600 deposited into my account from us Treasury. I didn't know they decided on something yet.


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InvisibleBarnaby
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27123265 - 01/03/21 06:27 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

That overturned Biden presidency and that two grand should be rolling in soon.  God bless Mitch turtle man.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: Barnaby]
    #27123440 - 01/03/21 09:02 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Mitch McConnel and Nancy Pelosi's homes were both vandalized.

I know many people had been hoping for more bipartisanship and less polarization. IDK.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: Brian Jones] * 3
    #27123578 - 01/03/21 10:26 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

I don’t think anyone wants bipartisanship.

And people vandalizing the homes of both parties’ leaders suggests to me that it’s not about polarization, it’s about a growing awareness of the populace that neither party gives a shit about them.


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InvisibleBarnaby
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27123611 - 01/03/21 10:41 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Yeah.  Is amusing how both were but doesn't solve anything.  They have a multitude of homes and security and insurance.  Somehow they will make it through it.

Though I get your point.  Just stupid people doing stupid things.  And please don't try to kill them anyone.  Won't change a thing.  And even if it did just don't.  You will turn so many against you then for you and your causes overall.

Gandhi and then MLK Jr. who took the same spiritual principles from long ago, I mean a real long time ago, is the same for every person living today.  Never changes.  Still stand up against bullshit but I go the non-violence way. Even with media in America becoming Chinese like and globalism. Violence, it just makes things worse. 

I could give a shit less about people with 7 homes, offshore tax free accounts, and all that people should talk about that would be much more interesting to reform that level of corruption and globalism.  Not if some idiots vandalized one of endless many houses they own.  Plus the strings and power that really controls what they say and do.  Whatever.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: Barnaby]
    #27123663 - 01/03/21 11:06 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

lol


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27123746 - 01/03/21 12:00 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Political strategy doesn’t mean shit if power isn’t behind you.

Again, the argument was what is better for the American people, not what is easier to pass in the US senate.




Political strategy is how you put the power behind you.

You know what's better for the American people? Guaranteed shelter, guaranteed food, guaranteed housing, guaranteed healthcare, guaranteed jobs, and a national goal that we can all unify behind.

You know the easiest way to do that? Hitler did. Militarize the populace and proceed with endless conquest for the sake of conquest.




:archiebunker:
Hitler seriously fucked up by invading France. Probably could have kept Poland and Czechoslovakia if he hadn't had such a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature/strategy.  In fact,  that was the plan initially.
I have serious doubts about your hypothesis here. It isn't supported by the facts as far as I can tell. Certainly it didn't work for Caesar in the end. Justinian was almost deposed despite his vigorous attempts to re-expand the empire. It didn't work out for Sparta and when Epaminondas broke their power over the peninsula via armed conflict, the place did not, in fact, degenerate into a bunch of tribal warlords. At least, not any more than it already was. It worked for Napolean but only for as long as it took for the rest of europe to adapt to his short term tactical/strategic advantages on terms of conscription and speed of march. The real lesson of history is that there is no front united enough to overcome the strategic overstretch associated with conquest for the sake of conquest.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27123928 - 01/03/21 01:15 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
lol you miss the point entirely.




Please enlighten us, then. Or has the time for debate passed?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27123957 - 01/03/21 01:29 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

You’re implying that Hitler rose out of the gutter and rose to power by appealing to the public welfare. This is ahistorical, ignoring the massively rich and powerful allies Hitler had, even early on. That’s why I said political strategy doesn’t mean shit if you don’t have power behind you. 90% of Democratic voters want a single payer healthcare system and it can’t even get a vote on the house floor. Why? Because the power doesn’t lie in the hands of that 90%. It can lie there, at some point in the future, requiring unprecedented funding and organizing and protesting etc etc. You actually think Mitch McConnell is a better political strategist than Sanders? It has nothing to do with the fact that McConnell’s agenda is exactly what everyone in power wants and Sanders’ agenda is what everyone in power doesn’t want? Come on.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27123996 - 01/03/21 01:46 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Political strategy doesn’t mean shit if power isn’t behind you.

Again, the argument was what is better for the American people, not what is easier to pass in the US senate.




Political strategy is how you put the power behind you.

You know what's better for the American people? Guaranteed shelter, guaranteed food, guaranteed housing, guaranteed healthcare, guaranteed jobs, and a national goal that we can all unify behind.

You know the easiest way to do that? Hitler did. Militarize the populace and proceed with endless conquest for the sake of conquest.




:archiebunker:
Hitler seriously fucked up by invading France. Probably could have kept Poland and Czechoslovakia if he hadn't had such a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature/strategy.  In fact,  that was the plan initially.
I have serious doubts about your hypothesis here. It isn't supported by the facts as far as I can tell. Certainly it didn't work for Caesar in the end. Justinian was almost deposed despite his vigorous attempts to re-expand the empire. It didn't work out for Sparta and when Epaminondas broke their power over the peninsula via armed conflict, the place did not, in fact, degenerate into a bunch of tribal warlords. At least, not any more than it already was. It worked for Napolean but only for as long as it took for the rest of europe to adapt to his short term tactical/strategic advantages on terms of conscription and speed of march. The real lesson of history is that there is no front united enough to overcome the strategic overstretch associated with conquest for the sake of conquest.




You're looking at this the wrong way. Hitler achieved everything he set out to do. So did Caesar. And Justinian. And Napoleon. Napoleon did this pretty clearly, I'd say: he was the first "lost cause" myth, of one man struggling against the world, knowing he was doomed.

Your mistake is thinking that whet they were doing had anything to do with the people. It did not. They simply wanted to create a world in which they were in charge and the masses were distracted by patriotic duty and endless war.

Of course wars end. And lives end. That's why their society would never last. They created the national equivalent of a "good while it lasted" bender in Las Vegas.

The reason they all picked warfare and conquest is because it's a great way of maintaining control. You atomize society while giving them something to struggle for, even though ultimately, the struggle is meaningless. It's just a tug of war that keeps people occupied while whoever orchestrated the situation exploits it for power.

This is also what the "both sides are the same" narrative is designed to do. At first, it may have been conceived to excuse GOP shitheadery, but now it's being wielded expertly by a small group of people to ensure that no progress is ever made. It divides people further and prevents them from organizing using existing structures. Ecstatic and Falcon are great examples of this: they will have a knee-jerk reaction against anyone that's a "democrat", even if that democrat is explicitly interested in building bridges and uniting the country towards a progressive future. They will do so by reminding us of all the times (some other) democrat lied, or changed their position, or whatever, before declaring "they're all the same". This is great for anyone that wants to stagnate society in a specific state that is advantageous to themselves.

This is how post-truth politics will work. It's how they work in Russia, it's how they will work here. You don't take on something like the NYtimes directly: you spend a couple bucks to open a thousand new newspapers firehosing garbage that ranges from "plausible" to "clearly false" until the entire concept of news is destroyed in the public image. Same thing with political parties.

The beautiful thing about such takeovers is that they can credibly pretend to be defending the freedoms they seek to destroy. It's like when that one Russian troll farm sued facebook for not giving them ad space, claiming free speech rights. Then you just start publicizing that lawsuit, regardless of outcome. The troll farm was probably being shut down as the lawsuit was filed, because the lawsuit was not in good faith. It was not about legitimately righting a legitimate wrong against a legitimate group. It was about legitimizing distrust for the next troll farm that popped up a few days later.

It's one of the reasons I know that leftists are not a legitimate political force. Leftism will not happen anytime soon. We know this because there isn't a concerted effort targeting leftism. Nobody is going back and digging through some random leftist's entire history looking for a gotcha to publish, like Biden and the 1994 crime bill. See, Biden is a threat. Bernie never was. Everybody knew that Bernie wasn't going to get elected. Then, when for a few minutes, it looked like he had a chance, the red scare popped up again. Once it was clear that everybody over the age of 35 would reflexively vote against Bernie, Bernie was forgotten again. Nobody gives a fuck about Bernie, he is no threat.

Same with AOC. She's a potential future threat, and when the zingers get a bit close for comfort, the anti-AOC machine sputters to life, but even then, it's less and less important to actually target her. By the time she becomes a legitimate political threat, she'll be "just another democrat", and therefore, "both sides are bad".

The more polarized the country gets, the less any real changes are possible. The people that are exploiting the status quo will continue to do so, until the costs of the collapse outweigh the profits. Then they will leave. And we will stay.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27123999 - 01/03/21 01:47 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
You’re implying that Hitler rose out of the gutter and rose to power by appealing to the public welfare. This is ahistorical, ignoring the massively rich and powerful allies Hitler had, even early on. That’s why I said political strategy doesn’t mean shit if you don’t have power behind you. 90% of Democratic voters want a single payer healthcare system and it can’t even get a vote on the house floor. Why? Because the power doesn’t lie in the hands of that 90%. It can lie there, at some point in the future, requiring unprecedented funding and organizing and protesting etc etc. You actually think Mitch McConnell is a better political strategist than Sanders? It has nothing to do with the fact that McConnell’s agenda is exactly what everyone in power wants and Sanders’ agenda is what everyone in power doesn’t want? Come on.




He very much did exactly that. He allied himself with the socialist movement in Germany, and then as soon as he got any sort of power from that, he very publicly stabbed them in the back. How else do you think he got the attention of his "massively rich and powerful allies"?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: Barnaby]
    #27124006 - 01/03/21 01:49 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Barnaby said:
Yeah.  Is amusing how both were but doesn't solve anything.  They have a multitude of homes and security and insurance.  Somehow they will make it through it.




People really over estimate the security that politicians get. Nobody is guarding pelosi’s house when she’s not there. Same with mcconnel. I think eight members of Congress are given a security detail.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: Kryptos]
    #27124026 - 01/03/21 01:58 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
You’re implying that Hitler rose out of the gutter and rose to power by appealing to the public welfare. This is ahistorical, ignoring the massively rich and powerful allies Hitler had, even early on. That’s why I said political strategy doesn’t mean shit if you don’t have power behind you. 90% of Democratic voters want a single payer healthcare system and it can’t even get a vote on the house floor. Why? Because the power doesn’t lie in the hands of that 90%. It can lie there, at some point in the future, requiring unprecedented funding and organizing and protesting etc etc. You actually think Mitch McConnell is a better political strategist than Sanders? It has nothing to do with the fact that McConnell’s agenda is exactly what everyone in power wants and Sanders’ agenda is what everyone in power doesn’t want? Come on.




He very much did exactly that. He allied himself with the socialist movement in Germany, and then as soon as he got any sort of power from that, he very publicly stabbed them in the back. How else do you think he got the attention of his "massively rich and powerful allies"?




He got the attention of those people by promoting an agenda that suits their interests. Of course, he made broad appeals to the masses, something every politician of the last 200 years has done.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27124076 - 01/03/21 02:28 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
You’re implying that Hitler rose out of the gutter and rose to power by appealing to the public welfare. This is ahistorical, ignoring the massively rich and powerful allies Hitler had, even early on. That’s why I said political strategy doesn’t mean shit if you don’t have power behind you. 90% of Democratic voters want a single payer healthcare system and it can’t even get a vote on the house floor. Why? Because the power doesn’t lie in the hands of that 90%. It can lie there, at some point in the future, requiring unprecedented funding and organizing and protesting etc etc. You actually think Mitch McConnell is a better political strategist than Sanders? It has nothing to do with the fact that McConnell’s agenda is exactly what everyone in power wants and Sanders’ agenda is what everyone in power doesn’t want? Come on.




He very much did exactly that. He allied himself with the socialist movement in Germany, and then as soon as he got any sort of power from that, he very publicly stabbed them in the back. How else do you think he got the attention of his "massively rich and powerful allies"?




He got the attention of those people by promoting an agenda that suits their interests. Of course, he made broad appeals to the masses, something every politician of the last 200 years has done.




"Broad appeals to the masses" such as literally naming his party a socialist movement? Broad appeals to the masses such as joining, and eventually leading, an explicitly worker's party, which he then renamed the Nazi party? At which point he began to grow the membership and turn the party to one of obedience to the state at the expense of worker's rights?

Sometimes you move goalposts so quick I think I'm talking to Falcon.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: Kryptos]
    #27124112 - 01/03/21 02:44 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

You realize Germany had just recently barely thwarted a communist revolution right? Adopting Marxist language WAS broad appeal in that moment.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: After 9 months, Congress finally reaches a $900 billion covid relief... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27124120 - 01/03/21 02:46 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Okay. Well, as per your standard, I declare that The Ecstatic is a dictator hellbent on seizing complete power, and right now his arguments in favor of leftism are not honest, but simply a broad appeal to the masses.

Prove me wrong, or quit moving goalposts.


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