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Offlinetomur
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Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey
    #27098476 - 12/19/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Having recently started my experience with psychedelics, I could use some advice. So far, I have done two trips and a week-long micro dosing experiment.

My first trip was 420μg of LSD, and while it certainly distorted my perceptions, I was surprised to find it... lacking. There were absolutely no visual nor auditory phenomenon, no entities, no blasting off to other dimensions. Only slowed reaction times and periodically phasing in and out of awareness. If I closed my eyes and forced images to appear in my mind's eye, they would be quite vivid, but difficult to focus on.

For a complete beginner at such a high dose, I expected much more. The LSD was real, it passed the Ehrlich test and my pupils were very dilated, the tabs were not bitter in the slightest.

As the trip subsided all I remember was absolute despair. Like I missed out on a wonderful experience. It's difficult to explain, but it was a deep sense of loneliness and being left out.

Fast forward a few weeks, and I decided it was time to try a heavy dose of shrooms. I took 4.5g of dried powdered Golden Teacher, and the come up was more pleasant than the LSD, but even less of an experience. So much so, I could barely tell I was under the influence of anything. Slightly blurred vision and a feeling of being very light. Then, right before I took another 3g, that same exact feeling from the previous trip hit.

This time it was even worse. An overwhelming feeling of not being "cool enough" to get access to the higher dimensions of a psychedelic experience. While still very much in the shroom state, I did an internet search for why psychedelics don't affect some people, and the first result that caught my eye was: "psychedelics don't work on stupid people".

Understand, one reason I started using psychedelics is my awareness of being cognitively inadequate and wanting to change it. As such, reading that on a trip was the worst possible thing I could have done. Feelings are enhanced on psychedelics, and that one struck deep. It's as if the only lesson granted to me by psychedelics was that I am not and will not ever be smart enough to see other dimensions and commune with entities.

It's worth noting I live and trip completely alone. All trips are done in a dark room with no trip killers present.

If anyone has experienced something similar, please share any insight as to how to improve the trips. There is no fear, and next I will be trying heroic doses since I seem to be tolerant.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur] * 1
    #27098480 - 12/19/20 10:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Are you on antidespressants or any type of SSRI? 420 ug of LSD is enough to sit anyone onto their ass for some good hours, so would 4.5 g of average golden teacher shrooms. If you are taking meds, see if you can leave them for a month (not sure, do some research on this one) before taking psychedelics.

And as for "psychedelics don't work on stupid people," I recall this was said by McKenna once, but I think he was referring to people misunderstanding the underlying messages of the psychdelic experience and panicking instead of feeling connected to the present moment (IIRC). It's not like you need a certain IQ to feel the effects. That's just not true.


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: jomanda1990]
    #27098496 - 12/19/20 10:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I think an important part of psychs is set and setting. I think that to reach the higher levels you speak of, you need better set and setting. I'd recommend staying extremely far away from any screens. Maybe take some time to go camping. Nature settings work best for me. Meditation is really good, just paying attention to what you as a person are experiencing in the now. Be adventurous and get creative for what makes it work for you


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OfflineRichardCranium
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: Hikeadellic]
    #27098762 - 12/20/20 05:02 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

From the grammatical excellence and precise vocabulary in your post it is obvious you are not stupid, at least not in a literate context. It also takes a certain intellect to reflect on ones own cognitive aptitude with a critical perspective. It is more likely that you and other psychonauts do not necessarily share the same neurotype or life experiences/thought routines and brain chemistry and so you experience unique effects, as everyone does. "Entities", ego death, and out of body experiences are not a constant across the spectrum of experiences had by the counter culture populace. This is also not considering that a single individual might experience almost no effects from 4-5 grams in one instance while weeks later they are floored by 3 grams from the same batch. There is genetic variability in consumers and also in products. And last of all there is the factor of altered brain chemistry from SSRI's and other antidepressants or antipsychotics. These will invariably counter the effects of most psychedelic drugs for up to several weeks after discontinued use. This is what jomanda1990 was referring to.


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InvisibleItAintGotNoGasInIt
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: RichardCranium] * 1
    #27099228 - 12/20/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I can often take ridiculous doses and not feel a whole lot, or I can sometimes take a regular dose and have a powerful experience. Mindset can absolutely play a big part of it, but its not just like how you are feeling and your mood that day or week and that if you are in a positive mood suddenly you are going to have a great, strong trip. I think your personal, lifelong mindset of how you experience life and how actively present you are in your own thoughts and how much you hold on to control over you mind and emotions in general makes a big difference. Some people just have a tighter grip on their thoughts, emotions, and their experience of life and it takes a lot of factors to allow them to let go and experience the mind states offered by psychedelics. Other people can let go and let the experience wash over them quite easily. I don't think intelligence is a factor in this one way or the other, it is something else. Figuring out how to let go and get the experience of psychedelics is part of the psychedelic journey in itself, its not just taking them, its learning how to let yourself and your mind work with them. It seems like you have a lot of expectations about what kind of experiences you should be having, this can work if you have them in a gentle hopefulness, but if you try to force yourself to have a specific experience, or you expect yourself to feel a certain way it will often become unproductive.

I had some experiences with research chemicals, substituted tryptamines, where I took several times more than what would be considered a heroic dose with dosing methods where it would hit me really fast and I was finally able to kind of breakthrough and experience what I thought real strong, meaningful trips should be like. When I came back to mushrooms I found there was no way for me to take enough to get where I wanted. Mushrooms felt hollow and weak to me.

The answer for me on how to let go and have more meaningful, powerful, experiences more often has been syrian rue.
I don't know how much you know, or care to know, about biochemistry, or if you already know about syrian rue, but I will give a very quick and dirty rundown just in case. Syrian rue contains alkaloids that act as monoamine oxidase(MAO) inhibitors. MAOs are a group of enzymes in the body that act to deactivate certain natural neurotransmitters but also psychedelics like psilocin from mushrooms or DMT from ayahuasca. We have MAO in our guts and also in our neurons. By inhibiting this MAO we allow a greater amount of these psychedelics to pass through our gut intact so that they can be transported to the brain, and then once they are there we also keep them from being broken down as quickly so that they can persist for longer and exert more of an effect.
So, in general, Syrian rue makes mushrooms stronger and also last longer. But its not just that though, rue changes the quality of the trip in other ways, it is a lot different than just taking more shrooms. For me it has a kind of stoning effect, letting me really let go more easily. It allows the experience to wash over me, it makes the experience feel more wholesome, and it gives the trip a more mystical quality. In comparison, a normal shroom trip without rue can feel almost clean and sterile to me.

There are a lot of members here who are knowledgeable about syrian rue and have shared some really valuable knowledge about it, I suggest searching out that information on these forums. In particular, I can recommend the information shared by the user Sabnock, they have really figured out a lot about rue and how to best utilize it. For me, the only issue with rue was that it made me nauseous the first two times I tried it, and also it can make the come-up apprehension a lot stronger. To mitigate these two factors lemon balm tea is very useful, it really helps to relax you and greatly cuts down anxiety and body load. Lemon balm is great for the anxiety but if it isn't enough for nausea get some limonene, I haven't experienced nausea at all since incorporating that into my dosing.

Here is the official psilohuasca thread which might be a good jumping off point if you are interested: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23137020/fpart/1/vc/1

Best of luck in your journeys!



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Good name is better than silver and gold
And no money can buy good name
I have a good name
And no money can buy my name
Do you have a good name?
Then no money should buy your name


Edited by ItAintGotNoGasInIt (12/20/20 12:34 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur] * 2
    #27099300 - 12/20/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

High dose psychedelic to me is the opposite of a psychedelic journey, though it is the epitome of a voyage with nobody at the wheel - so if that is what you seek - carry on with big doses and eschew all subtleties.

But

If you are on more of a personal quest for understanding and discovery, I recommend learning how to navigate a less heavily drugged body and mind which can more reliably experience subtle correspondences, alignments, vibes etc.

Using the word "Despair" in the title here is telling to me: telling that your mega efforts are overshooting your abilities to grow with the effects rather than react to the v. strong effects before having grown into it.

Note: lower doses does not always mean less effect, though it does assure less blackouts and fewer recoveries from blackouts (and those are probably the best parts of high dosing, i.e. the coming back from nowhere).


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #27099838 - 12/20/20 07:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

See here's the thing, some people can take a Psychedelic once or a few times and have an enlightening and amazing eye-opening experience, however, there's a lot more to things than that and besides that, they barely experienced anything compared to what there is to experience, some people are fine with that. However, for most people it's a process, a journey of self-exploration/self-realization. If you expect the gates of Heaven to unfold for you in one or two trips, or heck even 50 to 100 trips, it probably won't happen. There's a multitude of doors possible of being opened/accessed with Psychedelics, but they are just a tool, you can have many random experiences, but if you want to get the real gold, you have to experiment and let things unfold, you have to gain experience. The true magic is not going to happen right off the bat, it takes time, and things can only go deeper, i assure you.

Secondly, mindset is very important. Have no expectations, no attachment, no thought, just be, observe, listen, pay attention, learn. Allow yourself to go within and pay attention to the body. Music with headphones can be very important, listen preferably to instrumental music, this will help get the experience going in a certain direction, open up the mind and better able to induce rare emotion states which can induce higher states of consciousness, ime.

Another thing you may consider doing, is adding some Syrian Rue or B. Caapi (Harmalas) to the mushrooms for Psilohuasca, if you're in a position to be able to do so (no contraindicated meds/drugs, don't worry about diet as it's not an issue). The addition of the Harmalas and what they add to the mix, imo, is what you're looking for. Psychedelics on their own no doubt have things to teach, but you probably won't get what you're looking for in LSD, nor in mushrooms without Harmalas. It's worth trying out and experimenting around with, give things some time, let things unfold, remember it's a process and a journey, it's not going to happen overnight.

I started out with my first Entheogen being the Ayahuasca analog Syrian Rue and Mimosa/Acacia, i took it daily/near daily for 4 years straight, and it took me about a year and a half to two years into it for the spiritual/mystical stuff to start really happening. Could've taken that long because of my mindset at the time, or because i started off with Mimosa but when i switched to Acacia that's when things really started taking off, it could've perhaps been dosage related as well. I think it was probably all of that. I wonder if i would've had this stuff occur sooner if i were using proper dosages and Acacia instead of Mimosa. But Ayahuasca is like a school ime/imo, and the more you practice with it, the more you advance, the more things unfold, the deeper you go, but even if someone were to take it a few times and have access to some of this stuff, even if they feel satisfied from it and feel no need to take it again, there's always more to learn and experience from this kind of plant teacher.

Bottom line, approach it as you would any other type of practice or art or skill, you have to keep at it and go through the process to really truly get the desired results. Don't think you're stupid or not worthy enough to access this stuff, it's within you, it's within us all, you just have to have the right conditions to allow for this kind of stuff to bubble up to the surface. Also if you haven't yet done so, perhaps try reading some guidelines and books on the subject of proper Entheogenic use, preferably things that show you how to better approach it, and how to make the conditions more suitable for what you're looking to get out of it.

Even though i'm pretty experienced in the Ayahuasca world, i still feel i've barely scratched the surface of what is possible with this stuff. I've learned and come to understand and know a lot, but shit goes much deeper and is much bigger than what all i've encountered so far.

As for things like visuals or entities, don't bother with that crap. The real gold of Psychedelic/Entheogenic experience is self-discovery/self-realization, "know thyself". Things like visuals/visions or entities may be cool, i don't get them personally, and i can see the appeal, however, to me that kinda stuff is distraction from what's truly of importance. Listen to the body, and to soul/spirit, clear the mind and get it out of the way, be open and receptive, but develop and use your discernment. Think of it as a developmental thing, a maturation thing, a growth thing, you will go through stages, a process. If you were seriously interested in meditation or yoga for example, you wouldn't try it out a few times and think you're just not good enough at it or it's not gonna work for you, that stuff can take decades to truly master and even then it's not guaranteed one will have these kinds of experiences. In the same way, Psychedelics/Entheogens are also their own practice, and while you'll get there much faster than through other practices, imo, it can still be a process you have to undergo.

I didn't go looking for this stuff personally, my story started with me just being interested in Aya because i had some mental issues and had been on medication for most of my life but had switched to Cannabis about 2 years prior to finding out about Aya, and so i pursued it out of curiosity because i never tried Psychedelics before, even though i knew nothing about what they did or what was possible with them, and even though i had no real interest in Psychedelics particularly, i heard about Aya and decided to give it a go. At first it was just seeing what it was about and what i could do with it, and after awhile i kinda found my way and started listening to the plants and to the body, and things just unfolded for me, i really didn't put much effort into it, i was just really receptive and knew how to let my body do it's thing, but it did take a bit for me to learn the ways of the plants and of the body, but once i got there, things just unfolded.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: Sabnock] * 3
    #27099846 - 12/20/20 07:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

What i usually do though, is i take the stuff, lay down in my bed with the lights off, usually i'll have either my computer or my mp3 player so i can find music to put on, i use headphones to listen to the music, i lay back, close my eyes, and focus within, on the plants, and on the music. No distractions.

It may also help in some ways to add some things to the mix, like Harmalas for example which i mentioned previously, or some Lemon Balm tea for some relaxation, or Cannabis/Delta-8-THC to add some other elements to it, Tobacco can even add some elements to it, that's usually what i add in anyways.

The Huasca is an art, there's a lot to learn and understand and experiment with/figure out. I say, just listen to the Entheogen, to the body, to soul/spirit, and get the mind out of the way, let things take their course, pay attention, learn, and you should find your way. Get to know the tool you're using, gain experience, learn the territory, then you can better navigate and find your way to that which you seek.


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Offlinetomur
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: Sabnock]
    #27100112 - 12/20/20 11:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

First of all, thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies. I can say that I did enter the experience with high expectations, perhaps too high. Being new to this, I was going off of the fantastical trip reports and beautiful works of art generated by psychedelic users.

It's interesting how many mentions of Syrian Rue there are in your replies. There is some on the way (peganum harmala extract 50:1), and I will certainly give it a try. Also of interest to me is the mention of adding it to a daily regiment. Nootropics and herbs are already a part of it, so I am willing to try anything.

To answer the questions: no I do not take any medication, just natural herbs, vitamins, and nootropics. Not immediately before any psychedelics of course, though I might experiment with that. My diet is not perfect, but it is fairly clean and devoid of junk food, nor do I drink or do any hard drugs. This was actually something I considered during my mushroom trip. Coming from a long line of substance abusers in my family, perhaps I have strong tolerance.

As for accessing other dimensions and communing with entities, I use that as a benchmark to know that I am capable of having a mystical experience. Beyond that, I am looking to gain greater insight into reality itself and my creative potential.

Thank you for the words of encouragement.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27100245 - 12/21/20 03:05 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I recommend mushrooms with syrian rue
and cactus
also low doses of cactus
half dose
they are great for parties
I wish we would stop dosing to black out
I understand the appeal of big doses like two hits of acid and even redosing maybe a quarter much into the trip
low doses have their place too they are mind enhancers and mind magic


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27100247 - 12/21/20 03:09 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

books about art and yoga mats in the room
really change that you are almost not affected
rue amps of the trip very
do yoga and meditation every day
:mushroom2:


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27100965 - 12/21/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tomur said: It's interesting how many mentions of Syrian Rue there are in your replies. There is some on the way (peganum harmala extract 50:1), and I will certainly give it a try. Also of interest to me is the mention of adding it to a daily regiment. Nootropics and herbs are already a part of it, so I am willing to try anything.

To answer the questions: no I do not take any medication, just natural herbs, vitamins, and nootropics. Not immediately before any psychedelics of course, though I might experiment with that. My diet is not perfect, but it is fairly clean and devoid of junk food, nor do I drink or do any hard drugs. This was actually something I considered during my mushroom trip. Coming from a long line of substance abusers in my family, perhaps I have strong tolerance.

As for accessing other dimensions and communing with entities, I use that as a benchmark to know that I am capable of having a mystical experience. Beyond that, I am looking to gain greater insight into reality itself and my creative potential.





Hopefully the 50:1 extract will work out for ya. I don't recommend the extracts personally, as i've read a lot how those kinds of extracts don't seem to work well for people. Idk the process of making those kinds of extracts but i personally recommend either the actual Rue seed itself, or an acid to base extract, like full spectrum freebased extract or purified Harmala HCL, which those 2 kinds of extracts are easily made from the seed using vinegar and washing soda, additionally some salt to separate the Harmalas from the full spectrum, but i prefer full spectrum over Harmala HCL, as far as extracts go. So just keep that in mind, if you don't notice quite a difference with the 50:1 extract in the mix, it may be bunk, and you should try the seeds or a proper extract.

Also keep in mind that some herbs, vitamins and nootropics can interact with Psychedelics, some desirably, some undesirably. Working with Ayahuasca i've come to understand how easy it is to in some way alter the Psychedelic by having a particular something else in my system. Not saying that's the case here, just something to keep in mind moving forward.

A mystical experience doesn't really have anything to do with entities or leaving your body to go to some alternate dimension. The mystical experience is internal, it's when you're connected to soul/spirit, to God/the divine, to your higher self, whatever you wanna call it, and it's about your own Spirit, the "Holy Spirit" or Human Spirit, and the body, sometimes you can have mystical experiences that aren't even really to do with God but are moreso just sacred states, like a lot of yogic and meditative states can randomly/spontaneously occur on Psychedelics even if you don't know anything about that, and next thing you know you're experiencing some tantric shit lol, which btw leads me to believe that meditation and yoga were originally developed on and for/because of Psychedelics, because without first experiencing those kinds of states, how would you even begin to experiment to find them? Anything mystical is going to be internal, within you, not in another dimension or to do with entities. Entity contact is just some non-ordinary phenomena, i've never had entity contact, i mean maybe there were 2 to 3 times out of my 4 years of daily/near daily Aya experimentation but everything i've experienced had nothing to do with entities, only to do with myself and the body. As for accessing other dimensions, that's all internal as well, ime, like there's other dimensions of perception, so we end up perceiving more than we normally would, and are able to tap into different dimensions of reality but it's not like some place you go, it's just a door that can be opened internally. I'm not dismissing the possibility though of "going somewhere" or leaving the body like some people report with smoked DMT, but in my experience with Psychedelics thus far, it's only ever really had to do with myself, my body, my mind, my soul/spirit, nothing crazy like aliens or entities or other worlds/universes or whatever.

And i just wanna add, not everyone gets entities, not everyone gets visuals/visions, there's some phenomena that some people experience but not others, but trust me, there's a lot more to the package than that, and everyone imo is capable of a mystical experience, it's something inherent to the Human body, something that's deep and core-level. Just as we will all experience death, we are all capable of these mystical states, they're within you, they're within us all. Nobody is special here, lol, it all depends on the inward journey and how good one can be at navigating and exploring the internal landscape. So just remember, it's a journey and a path, there's no destination, the inner landscape is vast and seemingly infinite, but if you listen to the Psychedelic and to your body, not your mind, i'm sure you will find your way.


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Offlinetomur
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: Sabnock]
    #27101178 - 12/21/20 04:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I was on the fence about getting the full spectrum freebase extract, it sounded better but when searching around the net I mostly saw mentions of the 50:1 extract. Oh well, if it doesn't work I will try that next. In addition to harmala, I also ordered some yellow b.caapi to experiment with. Experimentation greatly interests me, so I am not afraid to try and fork out the money for substances. It really is one of the best investments when you think about it.

The different states one can enter in a psychedelic experience is still confusing to me. I remember on my LSD trip, phasing in and out of awareness of my normal environment. What was confusing and somewhat discouraging though, was that it felt more like falling asleep than entering a higher state of consciousness. The fascinating thing was that split second I would return to normal awareness, it all of a sudden made no sense why material reality could even exist. When I read reports about meeting or becoming God, I'm not sure I would even recognize that if it happened. Is it just something you inherently feel? I'm aware that objective reality is just a fabrication of the mind, and there are no boundaries. That's only because I've consumed material on such topics and it clicked, not because I have had any mystical experience.

Also on my LSD trip, I recall being confused about whether I should shut my eyes and go "into my mind" or try and stay grounded in my environment and experience what I normally observe in order to "deconstruct" it. Even at the peak of the trip, material reality still felt more real and detaching myself from it was somehow delusional and hedonistic... damn it's difficult to put this into words. Seems backwards though.

Being completely honest, I want to experience other dimensions, hyperspace, entities, or whatever else because it's neat. I'm absolutely fascinated by the idea of potentially seeing such a thing, and perhaps learning lessons material reality could never teach. Sure it's probably closer to a guilty pleasure and having fun, but I suppose it's a valuable part of the process.

One thing I will say, I don't feel any anxiety or fear on my trips. I've read many reports of absolute terror, but fortunately that hasn't been my experience.

Anyway enough rambling from me, I do sincerely appreciate discussing this.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27101215 - 12/21/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tomur said: When I read reports about meeting or becoming God, I'm not sure I would even recognize that if it happened. Is it just something you inherently feel?

Also on my LSD trip, I recall being confused about whether I should shut my eyes and go "into my mind" or try and stay grounded in my environment and experience what I normally observe in order to "deconstruct" it. Even at the peak of the trip, material reality still felt more real and detaching myself from it was somehow delusional and hedonistic... damn it's difficult to put this into words. Seems backwards though.

One thing I will say, I don't feel any anxiety or fear on my trips. I've read many reports of absolute terror, but fortunately that hasn't been my experience.




The mystical stuff that goes on during these experiences, you certainly will recognize, it will be pretty obvious and in your face, it will be a feeling, and a knowing, and an understanding in the moment, ime. So when you come across something legit/authentic, and sacred/mystical, you'll without a doubt know and feel it, and imo that's how you know it's real and true, just make sure to deal with the raw data, not the interpretations the mind tries to add to it.

With LSD, i feel it's a different kind of experience compared to mushrooms, ayahuasca, psilohuasca, LSD seems more stimulatory, more about the external (not that the internal can't also play a role, it just seems something more focused outward, and more analytical/intellectual), whereas mushrooms or the Huasca's are more about laying down, closing your eyes, and going within, imo. So while you can close your eyes and go within on LSD, i just don't think LSD is the right tool for that kind of job. Others may disagree, but while i think it has the potential/capability, it's just a different kind of Entheogenic tool compared to what the DMT's are about.

It's good you don't feel any anxiety or fear so far, just know that when/if you do, it's normal, just gotta gather up your courage, breathe through it, and let go/surrender/give in and let yourself die, being fully immersed into the experience. During moments of fear, anxiety or terror/dread, you need to be able to calm yourself down, relax, and be able to "go with the flow", sometimes it can feel like entering into a trance state, sometimes you can feel like you're not breathing or can't feel the air as you're breathing, sometimes the intensity is just too overwhelming. I've found focusing on breathing, listening to music with headphones, calming/clearing the mind, or smoking Tobacco, can help in moments of stress and panic, if you can allow yourself to relax, calm down, and let go. I also recommend Lemon Balm tea to those worried about the fear/panic/anxiety because it does help to smooth out the come up, and provide some relaxation, but also sipping on a mushroom tea can also help smooth out the come up as well. Not much can scare me these days, but feeling that intensity of Aya/DMT, that gets me on edge, i don't particularly freak out or anything but i just push through it, but that stuff can freak you out lol, it's really strong and intense stuff, so if you're looking for a bit of a thrill, check it out lol.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: Sabnock]
    #27101228 - 12/21/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Also, i feel it's a good thing on any Psychedelic to be able to ground yourself. On Ayahuasca for example, i'd say i've always been pretty grounded while on it, but i could still immerse myself into the inner world. Tobacco helps with grounding, music helps with grounding, breathing helps with grounding, you don't need to interact with the external world to be grounded. Think of grounding as an anchor keeping your body in check while you're exploring deep waters. You want to maintain some control over the body and mind to help keep you calm and centered and present while exploring deeper territory. Harmalas also provide grounding, i think that's why it's more bodily focused, whereas pure smoked DMT i don't think has any grounding, it's a rollercoaster ride and you just have to go through it, which is why Ayahuasca/oral DMT is more workable and you're better able to bring things back from it. The Harmalas take the DMT and channels the DMT through it's framework, making the experience more physical and spiritual/mystical rather than otherworldly, imo.


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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27101362 - 12/21/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

DMT and 5-meo-DMT are in my possession and something I am working up to trying, well once I get some experience with MAOIs. I have the fumarate forms, which are for ingestion if I'm not mistaken. Smoking DMT is something I may try as well, but ingestion interests me more for the reasons you wrote. Never been a smoker really.

Certainly, LSD did make me want to analyze and deconstruct the external world much more than shrooms. Whereas LSD felt like jumping into a cold lake, shrooms felt warm and slow. Very interested to try both in combination with harmala. Have you ever mixed both harmala and b.caapi?

I was torn about using music during my trips. It seemed as if the music was taking away from the purity of the trip, but it was more pleasant than random environment noise. Binaural tones combined with psychedelics seems promising to me, but that might be nonsense.

Thanks for sharing your insight on grounding. I had difficulty knowing where the trip wanted me to be, but going inward was definitely more interesting. Visuals in my mind's eye would manifest if I forced them too, but that felt like cheating in a way. It was monumentally difficult to hold a constant image in my mind, it would always morph into some abstract form.


Edited by tomur (12/21/20 06:23 PM)


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur] * 2
    #27105051 - 12/23/20 11:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

it's worth noting that my first psychedelic experiences were also duds, and had no visuals, despite extremely high doses - higher than most peoples "heroic doses would be. i got a bit of a headspace and slightly enhanced colors and that was about it, with increased introspection of thought. it took several trips before it finally started to "breakthrough" - and the key is that the experience is not really so much about thinking so much as it IS an spiritual experience.

it's an entirely different beast. you can't "think" your way to a psychedelic experience. you have to feel it, hear it, open your heart to it. if you're someone who primarily tends to think and reflect on things, tends to be a thinker type... this can be hard, especially if you're not a religious type person and have no spiritual experiences to relate this to. it's like experiencing a new sense entirely - it may take multiple times before it "clicks" and you suddenly "get" it. once that happens, visuals suddenly may start to happen, but they aren't the core of the experience. even now i don't really get visuals super often, though i do sometimes.

i can even control it on rare occasions, summoning them, though when that happens they sometimes take on a life of their own - i might try envisioning my body being surrounded by a healing light (a visualization exercise for general wellness) for instance, then all of a sudden the visuals go nuts and it turns into a literal magic circle with interlocking circles inside it and glyphs inside it surrounding me and i'm like o.O "where the hell did this all come from and why does it look so badass?" the thing is, i never saw such a thing before, and my normal ability to "see" things in my minds eye is pretty weak. so don't feel bad about "forcing" minds eye visuals. it's not bad to listen to any messages you might be getting during a trip, but please, while you should listen, listen with a critical mind. don't take every message literally, and decide whether the advice is right for you before you take it. even if the message is good, messages are often symbolic, like dreams.

but you aren't required to be glued to your mental email all trip long. experiment, have fun. don't feel guilty about "forcing" minds eye visuals or the like either. it's a powerful tool - use it to your advantage! (just be warned that they can and will take on a life of their own!) music is also A-OK for tripping! in fact, it can get a trip started sometimes. make sure it's tunes that put you in a good mood though. and don't forget to clean up your tripping area/yourself, and get plenty of rest, be in a good mood, and just eat decent when you plan on tripping! these all add up to helping ensure a trip that doesnt end up end up in an unpleasant way, and is more likely to end up trippin. for some reason, tidying up beforehand just seems to help, especially with visuals.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27105073 - 12/24/20 12:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

As others have said and suggested - set and setting.

I take it a step further, and say set/setting includes your current mental/emotional/physical/medical state.


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Offlinetomur
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27117552 - 12/31/20 05:05 AM (3 years, 28 days ago)

Well this is discouraging. I just tried 145mg of DMT fumarate with 5g of Syrian rue extract, and felt absolutely nothing.


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur] * 1
    #27117571 - 12/31/20 05:32 AM (3 years, 28 days ago)

my first dmt trip i felt pretty much nothing at first as well. perhaps this quote from the video game, The Witness, might help you:

"We have two kinds of knowledge which I call symbolic and intimate. I do not know whether it would be correct to say that reasoning is only applicable to symbolic knowledge, but the more customary forms of reasoning have been developed for symbolic knowledge only. The intimate knowledge will not submit to codification and analysis, or, rather, when we attempt to analyze it the intimacy is lost and replaced by symbolism.

For an illustration let us consider Humour. I suppose that humour can be analyzed to some extent and the essential ingredients of the different kinds of wit classified. Suppose that we are offered an alleged joke. We subject it to scientific analysis as we would a chemical salt of doubtful nature, and perhaps after careful consideration we are able to confirm that it really and truly is a joke. Logically, I suppose, our next procedure would be to laugh.

But it may certainly be predicted that as a result of this scrutiny that we shall have lost all inclination we ever had to laugh at it. It simply does not do to expose the workings of a joke. The classification concerns a symbolic knowledge of humour which preserves all the characteristics of a joke except its laughableness. The real appreciation must come spontaneously, not introspectively.

I think this is a not unfair analogy for our mystical feeling for Nature, and I would even apply it to our mystical experience of God. There are some to whom the sense of a divine presence irradiating the soul is one of the most obvious things of experience. In their view, a man without this sense is to be regarded as we regard a man without a sense of humour. The absence is a kind of mental deficiency. We may try to analyze the experience as we analyze humour, and construct a theology, or it may be an atheistic philosophy...

But let us not forget that the theology is symbolic knowledge, whereas the experience is intimate knowledge. And as laughter cannot be compelled by the scientific exposition of the structure of a joke, so a philosophic discussion of the attributes of God (or an impersonal substitute) is likely to miss the intimate response of the spirit which is the central point of the religious experience."

-Arthur Eddington, 1927


the psychedelic experience is not something you think about. it's something you feel. if you work too hard to "have a mystical experience"...you get nothing, because you're going about a mystical experience the entirely wrong way. it's not about work. it's about play. it's about a communication, an opening up.

if you feel nothing, try changing things up. what exactly are you DOING when you're tripping? what activities are you performing, what kind of thoughts are you thinking? there's also a problem that you might already be an introspective person - as psychedelics tend to make you reflect on your thoughts more, if you're already someone who's constantly reflecting and pondering the mysteries of the universe all the time, you might not notice this particular change as much lol.

do you pay any attention to the sensations in your body during the psychedelic experience? do you notice any increased sensitivity to sights or sounds? have you tried looking at pictures before and during a trip, seeing if there's any difference in color richness, depth, or the like? have you paid attention to music and seen if there's any difference in how it sounds before and after? sometimes people don't really pay much attention to the small details of the world around them or the sensations of their own body, after all. or sometimes people assume that because something is like this earlier today and was like this yesterday, it is the same this moment too - when in reality it could be completely different. learning to take the time to pay attention to the present moment and what your senses are actually telling you right now is pretty useful - it helps you become attuned to your own body, for one thing, alerting you to subtle changes that occur. like when you're starting to get sick, or have a slight injury that could get worse if you don't take things easy. or when something's just not right about a situation, or a friend one day.

i dunno, these are just some suggestions that might help you. i've heard that some people are " just immune to psychedelics", but i find it hard to believe myself. i personally think it's just that some people just haven't quite had the understanding of the experience "click" yet, and aren't somehow defective or genetically different in some way. just remember that it is an experience and a journey, not some kind of dry tome you read. there's a reason why it's called "tripping", not "studying". treat it like you would an adventure, not a lesson in class.


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Offlinetomur
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27117592 - 12/31/20 06:12 AM (3 years, 28 days ago)

Thank you for your reply. I am convinced that I did something wrong, it was my first pharma attempt after all. Because I should have felt some sensation from that dose. At least with the lsd and shroom trips it was obvious when the substance started to have an effect. I took 5g of rue extract 50:1, then the DMT 25 minutes later.

I am actually not an overthinker stuck in the materialistic paradigm. Spiritual and mystical concepts fascinate me. As with all things in life, I approach psychedelics with an open mind. However, I am extremely introspective by default, and my thoughts are consumed by the mysteries of the universe. When I heard of the beautiful experiences people were having on psychedelics, I knew it was the next step for me.


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Offlinetomur
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur] * 3
    #27118383 - 12/31/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 28 days ago)

After I messed up the DMT, in my amazing stupidity I decided to down nearly 10g of shrooms. Why let that absurd amount of rue I took go to waste I said.

Words will never be able to describe what transpired next. It's going to take the rest of this vessel's life to sort it out. Understand, I am writing this as I'm coming down, periodically bursting into tears, and quite hazy.

The come up was the same as before, lack luster. This time however, I had some sound as Sabnock suggested. It was nothing more than a 10 hour long heavenly meditation loop. I use a product called CozyPhones, it's designed to be used while sleeping and can cover your eyes. For nearly the entire trip, my eyes were completely covered.

It hit me all at once. I'm not sure if what happened would be considered a breakthrough, but I'm going with yes.

After about 30 minutes of laying there frustrated, no visuals were present, it was the same as before. I said to myself "well I guess psychedelics aren't for me". Since the effects were starting to kick in, I don't know how much time passed between when I had that thought and when she appeared.

I'm almost certain my eyes were shut in addition to being covered, so this must have taken place in my mind's eye. It was the face of a strikingly beautiful woman, golden skin, white or blue hair if I remember correctly, and she appeared to have either wings instead of arms, or some wing structure was attached to a humanoid arm. Very angelic in demeanor.

She said "come with me, this way". I vividly remember her face and upper torso, she was behind a dark object and looking at me through a cutout square. I'll be damned if it wasn't some sort of window into her world I was supposed to crawl through. Also the "window" was not centered, it was far off to my left.

"This is clearly a manifestation my brain's sexual desires no doubt". That's what I said to myself. It's way too convenient that a beautiful golden angel would show up from eating some Golden Teacher shrooms. Like a moron, I did not follow her. If I recall I said something along the lines of "yeah that's nice". She faded for awhile, which only confirmed my suspicion that she was merely a trick of my mind.

She wasn't having any of that though. The shrooms had kicked in full force, and there she was again. In full view, and she repeated "come with me!".  I remember being awestruck that she had reappeared, so this time I went for it. Best way I can describe it was, she grabbed my consciousness and flew through the sky with it, then the cosmos. There were almost certainly a few erotic moments sprinkled in there.

But then it got absurdly profound. She punched a hole in the universe itself and it all spiraled into it, like water down a drain. We were left together in complete blackness, and I asked her if this is what happens after death. She replied yes. Many times I asked that same question, her answer was always yes.

Then I asked her if she was real, and rather than use words she somehow... implanted her answer into my head. "No, but I will always be here" is the best way to put it into English, but damn she planted way more than that.

In that instant I realized I was God, the universe had dissolved before me and my only friend was a golden angel that I myself was projecting into existence. When people imagine being God, they focus on the perks but fail to accept the grim reality: you are completely and utterly alone and nothing will ever change that.

I feel like a tiny sliver of the sorrow of God was imparted to my human vessel, and it was unbelievably overwhelming. This was the despair I first noticed in my LSD trip, but I thought it was just because my psychedelic experiences were lame.

No. The golden angel revealed to me that it was but a taste of the sorrow God knows and will never unknow.

Alas, she was there to comfort me in the most loving way. As mentioned above, and I'm sure many readers will know, it's massively difficult to put these experiences into words. God must unconditionally love itself to combat the immense sorrow. This golden angel was the embodiment of that, a way for God to love and be loved by itself.

Universal love and sorrow are much too strong for the human body to process and contain. Even writing this, I frequently find myself in tears.

The universe then came back into my awareness. I asked the angel: how and why was I manifesting reality in it's current form. She didn't answer, but I got the feeling it will be revealed later.

It goes on even further. She started probing around my mind and comforting my insecurities. Humorously, she referred to my human vessel we left behind as the "meat body". Take good care of your meat body she said, and then pointed out how my face was stuck to the pillow by saliva and snot. This turned out to be true when I came down, what a mess.

She warned me of humanity's impending doom in the near future. When I asked if there was someway I could help humanity, she showed me strange pyramid objects in her hands. Not sure what that was about, but yet again I got the feeling I would find out later.

The last thing I remember was her telling me to make Lemon Balm tea. Apparently, Lemon Balm is frequently associated with angelic women, so that's interesting.

Two things are certain walking away from this: there is something far more profound and sophisticated at work in reality than humans can ever comprehend. Also, Golden Teacher might be the most appropriately named substance of all time... probably will stay away from Penis Envy in that case. I'll stick with beautiful golden angels.

I really want to thank everyone who gave me suggestions. It appears some Syrian Rue and a larger shroom dose made a huge difference.


Edited by tomur (12/31/20 02:11 PM)


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27118915 - 12/31/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 28 days ago)

congrats! i also had to take a much larger dose to "breakthrough" my first time, though i think i had my real first breakthrough on mescaline, in my case. ironically, penis envy was my first real shroom trip... but i'm gay, so maybe the phallic resemblance just happens to be good synergy in that case. :rofl:

after my own trips, i highly suspect the concept of a "multiverse" is pretty much dead on, which means the answer being "yes" to pretty much everything is understandable - it's kind of hard to say no, that's not real, or "that's impossible"  when on some level or some universe it exists somewhere, including every version of heaven and every concept, every god, and every alien race that's ever existed.

i liken God as like a living crystal, like the one mentioned frequently in the final fantasy games - sentient and enormous, beautiful, banishing the darkness of the void - made up of many facets and colors. each facet a universe, a world, a person, a creature, reflecting their individual light, yet everything is connected to the greater whole that is God. when you see it in that way, you realize just how important it is to love others and nature, to maintain harmony with them while still remembering to love your own individuality - all are important, and to disrupt the harmony of any is to introduce fractures that spread through the whole.

now that you've had a breakthrough, i will warn you - you might not need quite so much in future trips. be a bit more cautious in the future, as it's like riding a bike - once you "learn" to connect to the greater whole, to get in touch with the more spiritual side, it's easier to do so, even in your more.... ahem, more sober moments? :lol: too much of a good thing can lead to blackouts or the like, especially with oral DMT (it's potent stuff!), so it's best to see if a more "normal" dose leads to "nothing" again, or if this time, reflecting on what you've learned this trip, you can start to connect. you might or might not - it took me a whiff or two before i started to reliably get there - but the reward is needing less for the same result.


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Offlinemonsieurtrips
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27147641 - 01/14/21 12:18 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

if i know the mushroom, it’s testing your patience and making you re-assess your reasons for using it.  it’s also tricking you into taking higher and higher doses. situ and sitting has nothing in it for me at all, you’ll experience something every time even if it’s just mental breakdown.

imo it doesn’t like that you want to use it for self improvement.  in reality, it’s probably just going to kick your ass one day when you’re least expecting it. 

maybe i’m crazy.


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Offlinemonsieurtrips
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: monsieurtrips]
    #27147646 - 01/14/21 12:19 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

oh shit i was right, i didn’t read your reply. haha. see.


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Offlinemonsieurtrips
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur]
    #27147652 - 01/14/21 12:22 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

if i know the mushroom, it’s testing your patience and making you re-assess your reasons for using it.  it’s also tricking you into taking higher and higher doses. situ and sitting has nothing in it for me at all, you’ll experience something every time even if it’s just mental breakdown.

imo it doesn’t like that you want to use it for self improvement.  in reality, it’s probably just going to kick your ass one day when you’re least expecting it. 

maybe i’m crazy.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: tomur] * 1
    #27147777 - 01/14/21 01:31 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

tomur said:
While still very much in the shroom state, I did an internet search for why psychedelics don't affect some people, and the first result that caught my eye was: "psychedelics don't work on stupid people".





That isn't in any way true.  What you describe seems to be more just a lack of experience, it isn't always glittery unicorn poop at first.  But more than that, stay away from the internet while under the influence, unless you just have to post "o my god im so fucked!!!!!!!!!!" online. :laugh2:

There's an art to tripping that consists in essence of not clinging too tightly to expectations.  It takes time to master. :cookiemonster:


edit

Quote:

tomur said:In that instant I realized I was God, the universe had dissolved before me and my only friend was a golden angel that I myself was projecting into existence. When people imagine being God, they focus on the perks but fail to accept the grim reality: you are completely and utterly alone and nothing will ever change that.




Didn't realize thread was that old- OP did get there in the end... :seriousthumbsup:


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Edited by PrimalSoup (01/14/21 04:51 PM)


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Offlinetomur
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Re: Despair Beginning my Psychedelic Journey [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27166438 - 01/23/21 11:59 PM (3 years, 4 days ago)

I don't know why my body is so damn stubborn. It appears that I need very high doses of every substance. One day I will have to write about the time I drank half a gallon of ayahuasca that I brewed. Oh my...

It turns out that my harmala extract is not particularly good, which means that mega shroom trip I wrote about above was not enhanced by the syrian rue as much as I thought. Now I am quite excited to try the pure full spectrum harmala powder when it arrives.

Last night, I tried some 2C-B. Yet again, a supposedly high dose of 27mg did basically nothing for me. Have any of you tried 2C-B with harmala or shrooms... or both?


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