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Outerbass
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McKenna on Novelty
#27098290 - 12/19/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am still fairly new to McKenna, and of course his subject matter is very wide, but I have heard him talk about a theory of his he calls novelty.
I created my own definition of novelty in a different context many years ago, and have never heard anyone else really talking about.
His view seems to toward physics phenomena, mine was sociological.
I am struggling to figure out what he meant because I have only come across a few offhand references buried in the many videos we have.
Does anyone have a summary or more complete explanation of what he was talking about? Thanks
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Yellow Pants


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Re: McKenna on Novelty [Re: Outerbass] 1
#27098395 - 12/19/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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(It’s TM Time)
Nature is a novelty generator. It builds upon previous orders with exponential increase in complexity which in effect churns out novelty.

Genius right ?
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Outerbass
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I guess I'm stuck on what he means by novelty.
The theory is that (from economics) homogenous products are highly elastic price wise, and price takers, which is a position of weakness. Heterogenous products are hard to substitute, and are price searchers, and have an advantage.
I noticed eventually all throughout culture people tend to try to create novelties for themselves, to become novel, in order to advance in the hierarchy. Homogenous people tend to fall down to the bottom.
McKenna himself went to extraordinary lengths to make himself novel.
He is talking about the physical world, and that is I think a much broader subject, that requires a lot of work to define and explain.
Edited by Outerbass (12/20/20 12:44 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: McKenna on Novelty [Re: Outerbass]
#27098534 - 12/19/20 11:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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McKenna was a crackpot who suggested telekinesis with space things.
Most of his shit is wack.
His stoned ape theory was the one idea that stuck.
Fundamentally it makes sense, it's a simple idea, an intriguing one.
His view was that psilocybin catalyzed the revolution of contemporary perpetuity.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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BrendanFlock
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Re: McKenna on Novelty [Re: sudly]
#27098671 - 12/20/20 02:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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The existential experience is always novel..
The chaos is the uncertainty in the changes.. from one experience to another.. The differences displayed.. like wind moving branches..
The idea of habit is perfectly conserved in time..
What is it that is explaining all this?
The existential dilema is of course to know what is yours and what is your identity..
The philosophy of choice is true.. amongst all the things in Eden.
I am Adam Kadmon.. come to me.. what's more?
The great white lodge teaches the stillness of things..
While the black shows difference, space and movement.. Binah rad arculum..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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The fuk?
Righto McKenna.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: McKenna on Novelty [Re: Outerbass]
#27098769 - 12/20/20 05:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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redgreenvines
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Yellow Pants


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Re: McKenna on Novelty [Re: Outerbass]
#27100466 - 12/21/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Outerbass said: I noticed eventually all throughout culture people tend to try to create novelties for themselves, to become novel, in order to advance in the hierarchy. Homogenous people tend to fall down to the bottom.
I’d say the homogenous are playing the safer bet. With the established one is always safe. 
Unless society crumbles.
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laughingdog
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Re: McKenna on Novelty [Re: sudly]
#27105129 - 12/24/20 01:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: McKenna was a crackpot who suggested telekinesis with space things.
Most of his shit is wack.
"....Once estimated at 200 billion, the number of known galaxies is now believed to be 2 trillion. ...."
. So I would say the universe is more characterized by repetition than novelty. But it's complex enough that there is also some novelty. . Trillions of galaxies all made from about only a hundred elements, a few forces, maybe 40 to 100 types of elementary particles. . Seems most life on earth is bacteria, plankton, and insects like ants and beetles, basically the tiny stuff. . I doubt psychedelics caused the evolution of larger brains in humans, but many trippers love these sorts of silly pipe dreams, that seem to make them feel privy to esoteric knowledge, especially if if they feel a need for justification. . Generally speaking primate brains were gradually getting bigger for millions of years (in relation to body size). . Getting a large head thru a female pelvis at birth seems, along with infant vulnerability, to have set a limit on human brain size.
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sudly
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I doubt psychedelics directly caused the evolution of larger brains.
I'd suggest they altered our ancestors interactions with environmental ques, along with further developments of interpersonal behaviours.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: McKenna on Novelty [Re: sudly]
#27105174 - 12/24/20 02:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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It actually makes more sense that ET's came and sped up monkey DNA, and are the custodians of our species, than it does a single plant kickstarting the neo cortex evolution IMHO.
William Bramley has a book called Gods of Eden that is absolutely worth checking out.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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laughingdog
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Re: McKenna on Novelty [Re: sudly]
#27106011 - 12/24/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I doubt psychedelics directly caused the evolution of larger brains.
I'd suggest they altered our ancestors interactions with environmental ques, along with further developments of interpersonal behaviours.
. Also human aren't as smart as they think they are. Just look at the shape the planet is in. Also folks that trip, very often keep doing so, as the effects don't last, as the forums here show. Also true deep enlightenment is not the fate of the vast majority of humans. . So in summary we aren't that great, and psychedelics even after thousands of years haven't really wised us up. And there are big differences in intelligence among humans - over half are on the wrong side of the bell curve. Really we don't stack up very well, as thousands of years of continuous war & torture make obvious to anyone giving the matter a little objective thought. . But the Jewish religion is not alone in trying to convince us we are "the chosen ones", and wonderful. Every group (that thinks its an "in group") indulges in the same egotistic nonsense. Men, whites, etc. you name it, they're special.
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Yellow Pants


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Well psychedelics are basically illegal so there’s that. People think they are smarter than they really are usually do to egotistical causes. Psychedelics incidentally dissolve ego.
In summary the state can go fuck itself. At least in regards to the war on psychedelic substances.
But of course it won’t because it is the state and will itself be doing the fucking.
Therefore there is a misunderstanding. Society is a misunderstanding.
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laughingdog
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Maybe human society simply isn't that different from some other animal societies, especially ants, which also fight wars, with other ant societies; and chimps which occasionally indulge in genocide, of other chimp troops.
Perhaps its just us guys, that have the illusion that things could be better. But, it seems that, ... what is, ... simply is.
. To expect a few plant (or fungi) biochemicals to change this, seems to be a case of hoping for too much, from them. Our big brains are not particularly well balanced between emotion, instinct and reason after millions of years of evolution. They are just an unfinished experiment, that still has a lot of bugs, (if you don't mind my mixing metaphors). . At present it seems the lack of balance, may very well lead to an unexpectedly short experiment, before the species terminates itself in just another species extinction, like the very unbalanced Irish Elk did, with its over large, unbalanced, antlers. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Irish+elk&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images
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sudly
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
sudly said: I doubt psychedelics directly caused the evolution of larger brains.
I'd suggest they altered our ancestors interactions with environmental ques, along with further developments of interpersonal behaviours.
. Also human aren't as smart as they think they are. Just look at the shape the planet is in. Also folks that trip, very often keep doing so, as the effects don't last, as the forums here show. Also true deep enlightenment is not the fate of the vast majority of humans. . So in summary we aren't that great, and psychedelics even after thousands of years haven't really wised us up. And there are big differences in intelligence among humans - over half are on the wrong side of the bell curve. Really we don't stack up very well, as thousands of years of continuous war & torture make obvious to anyone giving the matter a little objective thought. . But the Jewish religion is not alone in trying to convince us we are "the chosen ones", and wonderful. Every group (that thinks its an "in group") indulges in the same egotistic nonsense. Men, whites, etc. you name it, they're special.
Have you ever had a good day and remembered it years later? Or learnt to ride a bike and not forgotten it?
Are we our ancestors from 2.5 million years ago?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Loaded Shaman
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Well psychedelics are basically illegal so there’s that. People think they are smarter than they really are usually do to egotistical causes. Psychedelics incidentally dissolve ego.
In summary the state can go fuck itself. At least in regards to the war on psychedelic substances.
But of course it won’t because it is the state and will itself be doing the fucking.
Therefore there is a misunderstanding. Society is a misunderstanding.
Correct on ego dissolution and the state can go fuck itself.
Here's the kicker: I genuinely think most people don't want to dissolve ego because it's all they have/know/relate to themselves AS.
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redgreenvines
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dissolving ego has not been a primary goal of mine, being in touch with the moment has been and is.
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Loaded Shaman
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I think to chase ego dissolution is a symptom of ego sabotage, myself.
As you said, let it be what it is, because ultimately, that's what it actually is, lol  
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Ferdinando


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don't have something to do with mckenna they detract like bad like (a) weed it should not exist if only
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Edited by Ferdinando (12/26/20 07:38 AM)
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