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OfflineRaRaRasputin
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Questions on lophs
    #27092436 - 12/16/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

So I've done some reading and understand Lophophora Williamsii is the golden ticket and has the highest mescaline, with other lophs like diffusa and fricci being in the way less potent side. Are the lophs other than Williamsii worth growing at all compared to say trichoceus in yearly growth to alkaloid content ratio?
Any first hand experienced opinions?


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InvisibleAllium
Registered: 03/16/20
Posts: 2,722
Re: Questions on lophs [Re: RaRaRasputin]
    #27092458 - 12/16/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Diffusa has very little to no mescaline. I assume the others don't either, but I'm not certain.

Difussa is psychoactive but it contains other psychoactive alkaloids not mescaline.


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InvisibleAllium
Registered: 03/16/20
Posts: 2,722
Re: Questions on lophs [Re: Allium]
    #27093694 - 12/17/20 08:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Lophophora diffusa

Only trace amounts of mescaline have been found in L. diffusa; none in some cases. The primary alkaloid is pellotine, a compound that in its pure form produces only sedation.

Mescaline (1.2% of total alkaloid content)
Pellotine (86.2% of total alkaloid content)
Tyramine
N-Methyltyramine
Hordenine
N-Methylmescaline
Anhalinine
O-Methylanhalinine
Anhalamine
Anhalidine
Anhalonidine
Anhalonine
Lophophorine
O-Methylpellotine
Glucaric acid
Quinic acid

Lophophora diffusa var. koehresii

Mescaline (1.32% of total alkaloid content)
Pellotine (88.39% of total alkaloid content)
Tyramine
N-Methyltyramine
Hordenine
N-Methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine
4-Hydroxy-3,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine
O-Methylanhalidine
O-Methylpellotine
N-Methylmescaline
Anhalinine
Anhalidine
Anhalamine
Anhalonidine
Anhalonine
Lophophorine

Lophophora fricii

Alkaloid analysis of L. fricii has shown chemical similarities to L. diffusa even though the two species are divided by some 400 miles and L. fricii grows in the middle of L. williamsii populations. Both L. fricii and L. diffusa bear very similar concentrations of mescaline to pellotine.

Mescaline (0.9% and 1.1% of total alkaloid content)
Pellotine (65.2% and 65.5% of total alkaloid content)
Tyramine
N-Methyltyramine
Hordenine
N-Methylmescaline
Anhalinine
O-Methylanhalinine
Anhalidine
Anhalamine
Anhalonidine
Anhalonine
Lophophorine

Lophophora jourdaniana

Mescaline (31% of total alkaloid content)
Pellotine (17.8% of total alkaloid content)
Tyramine
N-Methyltyramine
Hordenine
N-Methylmescaline
Anhalinine
O-Methylanhalinine
Anhalidine
Anhalamine
Anhalonidine
Anhalonine
Lophophorine

Lophophora williamsii var. decipiens

Formal chemical analysis of L. williamsii var. decipiens' full alkaloid content is lacking, but mescaline and pellotine concentrations are equivalent to L. williamsii. And even though the alkaloids of L. williamii var. decipiens and L. fricii differ, it seems likely that they are very closely related through both location and description. Genetic studies of the Torreon populations may present interesting findings.


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OfflineRaRaRasputin
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: Allium]
    #27094049 - 12/17/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder if anyone has tried the other kinds.


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InvisibleAllium
Registered: 03/16/20
Posts: 2,722
Re: Questions on lophs [Re: RaRaRasputin]
    #27094055 - 12/17/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I know, right!

Maybe you should experiment :wink:,

All I have is one lone Lophophora alberto-vojtechii, so I'm out!


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Offlineislanduniverse
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: Allium] * 1
    #27094945 - 12/17/20 08:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

save a willy, eat a trich


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Offline76Salvia
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: islanduniverse]
    #27095303 - 12/18/20 05:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

islanduniverse said:
save a willy, eat a trich



Rt.
I just lost my injerted lopho, reeeeally sad. Looking for a new one.

Its a really beautifull specie, with a reeeeeally slow grow. Not worth for consumption, imo. If thats the goal, better use a pachanoi as I did (+growing it, ofc).

:hypnotoad:


I will not be able to kill a little lopho just for that hahahahaha


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InvisibleAllium
Registered: 03/16/20
Posts: 2,722
Re: Questions on lophs [Re: 76Salvia]
    #27095307 - 12/18/20 05:17 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I myself would never kill any cactus, but the op inquired, so I tried to help him out :cool:


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Offline76Salvia
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: Allium]
    #27095311 - 12/18/20 05:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

The point with the pachanoi its that you dont kill the cactus, you can propagate it with cuttings. With lophos, its not usually like that hahahaha

But a lot of people try to eat lophos over  pacha, or at least are more interesting in that. Maybe its because of the peyote its more "cultural pop", idk.


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InvisibleAllium
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: 76Salvia]
    #27095318 - 12/18/20 05:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Well eating lophs does not kill the plant, the bottom will grow back out every time :wink: Then you get mad pups that way too, so it's actually a win win :thumbup:

I used to grow mad lophs back in the day, and I always cut mine, rooted the tops,and the bottoms would push out more pups. I never lost one single bottom in all my years doing that :cool:


Edited by Allium (12/18/20 05:44 AM)


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Offline76Salvia
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: Allium]
    #27095322 - 12/18/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, probably, but with a lopho (for propagation) its gonna be more worth it wait for seeds, and then use a perikopsis or smth, because of the slow growing rate of the pupps (imo, of course).

A pacha cutting can grow like 30cm x year, so at least, in therms of eficiency, its generaly a better option for that goal, I think.

Maybe with caespitosa its different, idk.

Anyway I can be wrong, of course. Not an expert in the subject.
Everyone has their own method hahahaha


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and I saw
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InvisibleAllium
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: 76Salvia]
    #27095326 - 12/18/20 05:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

For sure man :cool: but if a man has overabundance of Lophs, why not try a little sample :shrug:

I have never tried either so I don't know much about their effects. But, they say a Peyote trip is different than a Trich trip.

Just like a White Widow stone is different than a Mexican brick weed buzz :nerd:


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Offline76Salvia
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: Allium]
    #27095339 - 12/18/20 06:09 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Of course, If u have a lot, you can try them

:hypnotoad:

And yes, probably they have a diferent effect, idk, not the 100% same alkaloids. Just tried pacha (worst taste in my life, btw) :tongue:

PD: Cool snake hahahahaha


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Edited by 76Salvia (12/18/20 06:10 AM)


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InvisibleAllium
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: 76Salvia]
    #27095349 - 12/18/20 06:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I heard both are very bitter and nasty!

Yeah, that snake stuck a pose for sure that day! I have never gotten one to be so docile like that while I'm taking their photo :grin:

Thanks:cheers:


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Offlineanatomality
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: Allium]
    #27095394 - 12/18/20 07:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Hey there,

I'm not around here all that much, but I am currently starting a bunch of Lophs from seed (big bend and crepitosa varieties), and have 2 other actives (Pcachanoi and Peruvianus). I'll also be starting some peruvianus from seed.

Basically to answer your first question, the pellotine alkaloid is not very desirable, I think it is more 'toxic' than psychoactive. So Williamsii is the one you want for sure. Don't know if I can post links in here, but I've found this website to have lots of great information https://www.magicactus.com/description.html#williamsii

He goes into detail even about all the different varieties of Williamsii, all from his personal experience.

That being said, I'm going to be growing Trichocereus with the goal of mind exploring, it seems to grow fast, and you can easily propagate it. I'll give peyote a spin in maybe 10 years... I have owned a single lone peyote for like 10 years now, and I have grow very attached to it. The growth has been very slow,  and it's only now throwing out it's first pup. I'm hoping I'll have a nice big garden after sowing my seeds.

Very interested in the mescaline experience, it just seems like a bit extra patience has to be put into it. Must mean it's worth it :smile:


--------------------
“The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”


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Offline76Salvia
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: anatomality]
    #27095396 - 12/18/20 07:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Good luck~!
Im trying to get a caespitosa too.
If u have any question or smth, you can ask me anything and I will try my best

:thumbup:


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Offlineanatomality
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: 76Salvia]
    #27095410 - 12/18/20 07:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks! Will you be starting from seeds or buying a mature cactus? They can be quite pricey, for the more popular ones like crepitosa.


--------------------
“The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”


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OfflineRaRaRasputin
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: anatomality]
    #27095425 - 12/18/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm sowing lots of Peruvians and was curious about different lophs because I want to grow a bunch of those. My plan is to graft them to a persk than to a massive searues from home depot and see how fast it can go.  I know it will still be a pretty slow process so I was wondering where would be the best one to start off with.
Obviously Williamsii but it's not easy by any means to find it states side.


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Offline76Salvia
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: anatomality]
    #27095430 - 12/18/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I already have some "normal" williamsii seeds growing, probably I will try to get/trade a "mature" caespitosa, idk.

But yeah, its pretty hard to find ~


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Offlineanatomality
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Re: Questions on lophs [Re: 76Salvia]
    #27095462 - 12/18/20 08:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RaRaRasputin said:
I'm sowing lots of Peruvians and was curious about different lophs because I want to grow a bunch of those. My plan is to graft them to a persk than to a massive searues from home depot and see how fast it can go.  I know it will still be a pretty slow process so I was wondering where would be the best one to start off with.
Obviously Williamsii but it's not easy by any means to find it states side.




I am also interested in grafting, all the hobbies have such depth it's crazy.
I tough they would be fairly easy to find, they are completely legal here in Canada. Plus they grow wild in some parts of the USA (lucky bastards not freezing all the damn time).

Quote:

76Salvia said:
I already have some "normal" williamsii seeds growing, probably I will try to get/trade a "mature" caespitosa, idk.

But yeah, its pretty hard to find ~




Let me know how it goes. I'll maybe make a journal on my seedlings if people are interested. Caespitosa (never realized that's the correct spelling) is where it's at it seems...
I'm excited about maybe crossing a big bend with them, but I am getting too far ahead of myself.


--------------------
“The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”


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