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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: psi] * 1
    #27090736 - 12/15/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Failed Despot


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27090739 - 12/15/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Have you found any compelling evidence yet? Open-mindedness is hearing an extraordinary claim, and being willing to consider the supporting evidence before making a conclusion. Responding to an extraordinary claim by giving it creedence based on currently-non-existent-but-hypothetically-possible-evidence is closer to spreading disinformation than it is to being open-minded.

Which is another way of saying no, I don't know that you're not really into make believing what's true. You might have been able to understand the meaning of Trump’s and Vahn421's words better than anyone else on this forum - but clearly that superpower doesn't extend to me.



No, I haven't found any compelling evidence yet, and I've mostly stayed silent on this for a little while, but then I found the Washington Times article showing a judge directed audit found a 68% error rate.  The article you posted basically said the auditors were big fat poo poo heads, and the article didn't have enough technical information to assess this one way or another.  That's why I said I'll wait to see the final assessment.

I just posted how the Hunter laptop, which the media originally said was fake news, turned out to be very likely be real.  So I'm a little more suspicious than others of the establishment media.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: koods]
    #27090743 - 12/15/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Part of it is that he seems to suck at finding people to appoint to government positions who are loyal to him above all else, except family members I guess. He thought he had stacked the deck with the courts, but the blind loyalty he needed was not there.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #27090747 - 12/15/20 03:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
I'd like to see this thread stay on topic regarding how Trump is or isn't a dictator.





Dictator might be going too far, but Trump will undoubtedly be recognized as a populist leader who harmed the democratic institutions of the USA. This report published in late 2018 has been fairly prophetic:


The Populist Harm to Democracy: An Empirical Assessment

Quote:

Many academics and commentators are sounding the alarm about the threat that rising populism poses to the stability of liberal democracies. Others respond that populism is, on the contrary, a sign of democratic resilience, providing a necessary corrective that will help address popular grievances, curtail the excessive power of elites and make political systems more democratic.

To resolve this important debate on the basis of sound empirical evidence, this paper measures the impact that past populist governments have had on democracy by drawing on a first-of-its-kind global database of populist rule. It looks at the effect of populist government on three aspects of democratic institutions: the quality of democracy broadly, checks and balances on executive power, and political participation. The paper finds that populist rule—whether from the right or the left—has a highly negative effect on political systems and leads to a significant risk of democratic erosion.

Key Findings
  • Populists last longer in office. On average, populist leaders stay in office twice as long as democratically elected leaders who are not populist. Populists are also nearly five times more likely than non-populists to survive in office for over ten years.

  • Populists often leave office in dramatic circumstances. Only 34 per cent of populist leaders leave office after free and fair elections or because they respect term limits. A much larger number are forced to resign or are impeached, or do not leave office at all.

  • Populists are far more likely to damage democracy. Overall, 23 per cent of populists cause significant democratic backsliding, compared with 6 per cent of non-populist democratically elected leaders. In other words, populist governments are about four times more likely than non-populist ones to harm democratic institutions.
     
  • Populists frequently erode checks and balances on the executive. Over 50 per cent of populist leaders amend or rewrite their countries’ constitutions, and many of these changes extend term limits or weaken checks on executive power. The evidence also suggests that populists’ attacks on the rule of law open the way to greater corruption: 40 per cent of populist leaders are indicted on corruption charges, and the countries they lead experience significant drops in international corruption rankings.
     
  • Populists attack individual rights. Under populist rule, freedom of the press falls by some 7 per cent, civil liberties by 8 per cent and political rights by 13 per cent.


[...]

The first and most basic mark of a liberal democracy is whether leaders respect electoral outcomes and, when they lose, whether they leave office through free and fair elections. This is why data on the longevity of populist governments are particularly important. The first striking finding is that contrary to the popular narrative, populists tend to stay in government for much longer than non-populists.

Many political scientists, historians and journalists believe that populists’ lack of political experience makes it difficult for them to sustain themselves in office. When Donald Trump was elected president of the United States in November 2016, for example, it was commonly predicted that he would not last a full term; but Trump is still in office, and his administration has proved more effective at instituting political change than many expected.

[...]

It is not, in and of itself, a sign of democratic decline that a freely elected leader stays in office for an extended period. After all, a leader’s longevity in office might simply indicate the extent of his or her success and popularity. To figure out whether populists stay in office so much longer for benign or concerning reasons, it is therefore necessary to look at whether they ultimately leave office due to free and fair elections. Here, too, the finding is concerning: populist governments are not just more likely to stay in office for a long time; they also have a significant likelihood of leaving office under dramatic circumstances.

Out of the 47 times that a populist leader assumed office between 1990 and 2014, in only eight cases (17 per cent) did the leader step down after losing free and fair elections (see figure 3).20 The same number stood down after reaching their term limit. A much larger number were forced to resign or were impeached. Populist presidents and prime ministers left office under such dramatic circumstances in 11 cases (23 per cent of the total). An even more common outcome—in 14 cases (30 per cent)—is that the populists have not left office at all and remain in power.

These findings raise an important question about the likely fate of the 30 per cent of populist governments in our database that remain in office. Are they more or less likely than the rest of the sample to leave office through free and fair elections? There is reason to fear that they are less likely to do so: the populist leaders who assumed power between 1990 and 2014 and remained in office as of late 2018 have already been in power for an average of nine years. Many are in countries that have undergone significant democratic erosion, such as Russia under President Vladimir Putin, Turkey under Erdoğan, Belarus under President Alexander Lukashenko, Venezuela under President Nicolás Maduro and Hungary under Prime Minister Viktor Orbán. Therefore, there is strong reason to worry that the populists in office today are even more likely than populist leaders as a whole to leave power in irregular and dramatic circumstances.

[...]

The good news is that the likelihood of a democracy eroding under an elected non-populist leader is extremely low. Even under a reasonably broad definition of democratic backsliding, which includes any country in which the Polity score declined by a single point, only 6 per cent of non-populist leaders who assumed office after 1990 in a democratic country are responsible for this kind of deterioration.

The news about populist governments, by contrast, is far more alarming. While most countries survive populist governments without experiencing democratic backsliding, it is incontrovertible that they pose a severely heightened risk to the survival of democratic institutions. Overall, 24 per cent of populist leaders who assume office in a democratic country initiate democratic backsliding. In other words, a populist government is four times more likely than a non-populist one to damage democratic institutions. (It is likely that this undercounts actual cases of democratic erosion because of a status quo bias by the organisations that measure the robustness of democracies).

[...]

The extent to which populists damage the rule of law can helpfully be divided into two separate questions: First, do populists manage to destroy the rule of law as a whole, undermining the extent to which ordinary citizens can trust that justice is administered in a fair manner? And second, do populists manage to put themselves above the law, using their power to escape punishment for crimes or engage in large-scale corruption?

[...]

So what are the lessons for some of the richest and most powerful democracies that are now governed by populist leaders? And do the findings presented here bode well or ill for the ability of American institutions to withstand Trump’s populist administration?

To answer these questions, it is important to understand that there are significant differences between the United States and virtually all of the other countries in our database. The United States is the oldest continuously functioning democracy in the world. It is one of the world’s richest democracies. And its political system is extremely decentralised, making it much harder for one government to concentrate power in its hands. All of these facts make it more difficult for American presidents to undermine democratic institutions. It would therefore be rash to conclude that populists will necessarily have as much success in dismantling democratic institutions in the United States as they already have in countries like Hungary or Venezuela.

But while there is no historical precedent that is sufficiently similar to allow us to estimate the effect of a populist government on the durability of political institutions in a rich, long-established democracy like the United States, it would be a mistake to assume that these dissimilarities neutralise any danger. Indeed, in his first years in office, the country’s current president has already pursued many of the same basic strategies that other populists around the world have effectively used to weaken their own democratic institutions. And although the United States remains a functioning democracy today, many of its institutions have already proved more susceptible to pressure from the executive than optimists had predicted.




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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27090785 - 12/15/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The article you posted basically said the auditors were big fat poo poo heads




"ASOG authored the “preliminary forensic audit,” which was made public by the judge today. The group, however, has no apparent expertise in election administration and technology. Their work is limited to the previous release and amplification of other false information and fake documents. As expected, the plaintiff’s most recent report on Antrim County is similarly critically flawed, filled with dramatic conclusions without any evidence to support them.

[...]

In response to a previously unsigned version of the ASOG report, Michigan Bureau of Elections Director Jonathan Brater made a preliminary declaration under oath for the court. In his statement, Brater said it was apparent to him “… that the report makes a series of unsupported conclusions, ascribes motives of fraud and obfuscation to processes that are easily explained as routine election procedures or error corrections, and suggests without explanation that elements of election software not used in Michigan are somehow responsible for tabulation or reporting.”

There are several legal concerns with the report and testimony submitted in Bailey v Antrim County, including the portions provided by Russell Ramsland, one of the “expert” witnesses in the case.

A Detroit Free Press story from Nov. 21 quotes Rudy Giuliani as saying Michigan has “over-votes in numerous precincts of 150%, 200% and 300%.” Giuliani’s source was an affidavit from Ramsland, who is a former Republican congressional candidate.  All 19 of the precincts cited in his affidavit are in Minnesota, not Michigan. Ramsland has also inaccurately stated the voter turnout rate in Detroit, saying it was nearly three times higher than it actually was.

The qualifications of those who authored the report are suspect, with no evidence or credentials provided to back up their “expertise.” Authors in the report also make unverified and unsupported claims that “fraud,” “intentional errors” and “bad faith” decisions made by election officials led them to their conclusions in the report. Moreover, many of their assertions are unsupported by evidence, with some even constituting hearsay and clearly show that the authors lack first-hand knowledge of events.

Michigan Rule of Evidence 702 states that if the court determines that scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will assist the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue, a witness qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education may testify thereto in the form of an opinion or otherwise if (1) the testimony is based on sufficient facts or data, (2) the testimony is the product of reliable principles and methods, and (3) the witness has applied the principles and methods reliably to the facts of the case. That has not happened in this case yet.

Past court rulings have found that the trial court has a fundamental duty to ensure that all expert testimony is reliable (Gilbert v DaimlerChrysler Corp), and that the knowledge of the testimony must be more than “subjective belief or unsupported speculation” (Daubert v Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals). At the conclusion of discovery, the Department of Attorney General will have the opportunity to request that the plaintiff’s report be stricken from use in these proceedings."







The only one currently introducing kindergarten-level discourse is you.


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OfflineEntrepenubian

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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #27090791 - 12/15/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yeah I'd agree with that. The methods for a successful democratic overthrow are there, but others' personal restraint kept it from happening. Armed revolt by his supporter is still conceivable, and they do have the firearms to raise a huge ruckus, but I don't know about the willingness to die.




Not really, since the Republicans got what they wanted out of Trump and the military definitely won't get involved, that leaves aging potbellied militiamen and proud boys as the only people who would actually get in the streets and fight for him. Neither of those groups are serious threats on their own at this point, because even if they weren't pussies with a bark bigger than their bite their tiny rebellion would probably dissipate as soon as they met serious resistance from the state. Although I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of cops joined up with them which would be, well...

And on the dictator thing, I think he's as much of a wannabe dictator as the majority of American presidents. Make of that what you will either way 😉


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27090796 - 12/15/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I read that.  Why do you think experts in cyber security can't handle election fraud?  What "false information and fake documents" are they referring to?

If you see something of substance in that article that I'm missed, please let me know.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27092182 - 12/16/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
trying to have a factual conversation with Falcon about Trump stuff is a waste of time.  They deny obvious truths in reality.



I'll ask you what I everyone who makes this claim - can you please post something I said that proves I deny obvious truths?

Quote exactly what I said, please.  No generalities.

This question rarely gets answered, but maybe you can break that trend?



***CRICKETS***

Same as always.  People accuse me of dishonesty, and when I ask where, I never get a reply.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27092189 - 12/16/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

That's because when confronted with examples, you just use that to go back and reargue shit that you've already argued dishonestly.  We all have been down that road too many times to give a shit anymore.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #27092659 - 12/16/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

This is why arguing minutiae is pointless on this forum.

I told qman to shut the fuck about about black crime statistics for like 5 years and to look at the bigger picture and look at him go: looking at the bigger picture.

You’re not gonna change anyone’s minds by indulging them on the basis of their stupid little arguments they’ve mastered.


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OfflinePotDaddy
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: STPLSD25] * 1
    #27092669 - 12/16/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

STPLSD25 said:
Trump lost the Election... Period! His crazy ass supporters can whine that Biden is "stealing the election" all they want, the truth of the matter is Donald Trump is widely unpopular because of his own actions. He would be wise to fade quietly into the background, and not leave kicking and screaming which will end badly for everyone.

If the Supreme Court overturns the will of the American People they will be in effect creating a Dictatorship... Americans will not tolerate it! There will be "Not my President" riots and looting nationwide. This is only opinion and my educated guess, but if Donald Trump doesn't leave the White House, we are facing a lot of violence and sheer pandemonium. First riots, then National Guard... convenient they just constructed a SECOND fence around the White House.





Wow Get some help for that TDS!
for 4 years people on YOUR side have said Trump was illegitimate, That Russia interfered and that Trump stole the election.

But now that Your candidate has won Everything is supposed to be ok but yet you continue to name call and cast aspersions on Trump supporters.

Biden keeps calling for Unity which is Laughable at best since He and Kamala have called Trump Supporters Racist bigots for 4 years.

Enjoy this Sham presidency while it lasts.


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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: PotDaddy] * 3
    #27092792 - 12/16/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I think we found Trump’s shroomery account


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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: koods] * 4
    #27092807 - 12/16/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I will always love the Random Capitalizations of the unhinged trumpers


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: PotDaddy] * 4
    #27092820 - 12/16/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: PotDaddy]
    #27092929 - 12/16/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wow Get some help for that TDS!
for 4 years people on YOUR side have said Trump was illegitimate, That Russia interfered and that Trump stole the election.





  It was Joe Biden that certified the electoral college and declared Trump the winner in 2016  . I don't remember anyone saying Trump stole the election . I think you made that up .




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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #27093167 - 12/16/20 10:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.www.complex.com/life/2020/12/palm-beach-residents-attempt-to-bar-donald-trump-moving-into-mar-a-lago

Its almost like looking at a man who is totally broken. Except he is a multi billionaire who will have just ended a 4 year term as President of The United States. But otherwise its like watching a character from Life Stinks or The Money Pit watch their life go down the drain.

All Trump talks about now is what he won't do and how is he basically locking himself in The White House. The die hard fans obviously still believe in "their savior" but by now if no one realises Trump does not give a fuck about them they are as retarded as you can possibly get. All the policies his fans love him for it would seem he is ready to reverse in a second just to piss off Congress. And Congress does not seem too happy with him. All his last minute veto's seem as though Congress will over turn it all.

Its like if Obama wanted to axe Obama care and all his fans still loved him even though he plans to put a big dick in everyone's ass that supported him. But then because Congress was so pissed at him they overturned his axe to Obamacare. Then all his fans loved him because Obamacare still existed. Even though it was incidental.

Why would anyone still love a President like that? I will tell you why

Because :kingtard::flowstone:


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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: imachavel]
    #27093170 - 12/16/20 10:16 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

When you lose to someone with Dementia you know you suck. No election fraud, no result turn over from the Supreme Court. No "the guy was honestly a better candidate then me." None of that. You just suck so bad they bring in a blind deaf dog with half its teeth missing that needs help to go pee to replace you. :lol:

What makes a Trump fan anyway? Envy? The need to support racism? Well that names it. What else?

Justified bigotry and envy for a billionaire.

Now we got 4 years of Joe Biden :facepalm:

I guess it was that or another 4 years of Trump and his retarded supporters loving him every time he slapped them in the face and bent over and took a huge dump on them :shrug:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: imachavel] * 2
    #27093221 - 12/16/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

He really is a total loser


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: koods]
    #27093675 - 12/17/20 08:23 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

During a campaign speech, Biden remarked “poor kids are just as smart as white kids.”


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Re: Trump will be widely viewed as a Dictator if/when he tries to use the Supreme Court to win. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27093679 - 12/17/20 08:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

He's acknowledging that people of color are economically disadvantaged.


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