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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
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Panaeolus ID Oregon (Updated)
#27092155 - 12/16/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Species #
Habitat: Growing in pasture that has been grazed by all sorts of livestock for decades, mainly cattle. Caps coming to just above the height of grass. Weather has been 40-50s and rainy. Only found one directly growing from dung, but there is plenty of manure in soil.
Gills: brownish grey and mottled getting darker with age (almost black). There are short small gills in between the long gills that are attached to stem.
Stem: Maybe 2-4 mm wide, 4-10 cm tall. Reddish brown with some lighter and some darker. No ring. Can see white mycelium at mildly bulbous base. There are somewhat translucent looking white lines running up the length of stem, most obvious close to cap and close to base. The stem is hollow.
Cap: 2-5 cm wide perhaps, dark brown when wet(picked when raining). As the caps dried they became more reddish brown with different zones being colored differently based upon moisture. Some had a small nipple, most did not.
Spore print: I believe Jet Black. There were 2 or 3 that were noticeably different, dark brown (I believe these were some pan. foes mixed in, and I believe the rest are cinctulus or olivaceous)(maybe more likely olivaceous given cooler weather and cincts like it warmer?)
Bruising:little to none. May be wishful thinking but some stems have a grayish color at base that may have a slight tint of blue.
General location: Willamette Valley Oregon
LARGER BETTER PICS POSTED A FEW POSTS DOWN
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/25/20 09:45 AM)
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27092244 - 12/16/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Non active sp. I'm afraid. Panaeolus olivaceus probably.
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Allium
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Panaeolus olivaceus is psychoactive
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27092347 - 12/16/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Axaxaxa really ?! Fml I didn't know that till now, sorry OP, hope you didn't trash them. Then I better be right in my assessment of species in question
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Moria841



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Could be the undescribed "lawn pans"
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Allium
Registered: 03/16/20
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I'd say that there is a good chance of some psycho activity there 
Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Axaxaxa really ?! Fml I didn't know that till now, sorry OP, hope you didn't trash them. Then I better be right in my assessment of species in question 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaeolus_olivaceus
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the man
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27092751 - 12/16/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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tiny pics but couple do look bluish staining. ya not cincts as fruit in warm weather..
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27093509 - 12/17/20 04:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Allium said: I'd say that there is a good chance of some psycho activity there 
Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Axaxaxa really ?! Fml I didn't know that till now, sorry OP, hope you didn't trash them. Then I better be right in my assessment of species in question 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaeolus_olivaceus
Definitely didn’t trash them, they’re drying safely. Sure hope they are olivaceous!
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Allium
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27093515 - 12/17/20 04:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Keep us posted! Post bigger photos
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27093535 - 12/17/20 05:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah post bigger ones.
And if you eat them, I'm not suggesting or recommending it really, but if you find out they're psychoactive let us know.
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Kaeden123

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Quote:
Allium said: Keep us posted! Post bigger photos 
Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Yeah post bigger ones.
And if you eat them, I'm not suggesting or recommending it really, but if you find out they're psychoactive let us know.
Resized the pics to the largest file size I can upload. Hopefully this helps. I’m planning on eating them this weekend and I will let everybody know how it goes. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but there are no look-alike’s (With blacks spore prints growing in pasture etc.) that are poisonous, and I would just be eating a non-active pan species?
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/17/20 05:40 AM)
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Moria841]
#27093549 - 12/17/20 05:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Moria841 said: Could be the undescribed "lawn pans"
Hm, I can’t seem to find much on “Lawn Pans”. If you know of their psychoactivity or anything else about them let me know! Is this just a generalization for several different Panaeolus species?
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27093551 - 12/17/20 05:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes it is generalization.
Could be, as stated by TI, some less known or even unknown Panaeolus sp.
I'm pretty sure it is not P.cinctulus.
P.olivaceus is likely, but not going to advise you to eat it, due to the fact it's not determined by certainty.
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lowbrow
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27093568 - 12/17/20 06:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kaeden123 said:
Quote:
Moria841 said: Could be the undescribed "lawn pans"
Hm, I can’t seem to find much on “Lawn Pans”. If you know of their psychoactivity or anything else about them let me know! Is this just a generalization for several different Panaeolus species?
lawn pans is a term invented to describe the gap in identification of the active specie being found in lawns and other urban settings over the years.
They were originally referred to as cinctulus but that has changed. They could be fimicola, olivaceus, or other.
It’s probably a mix of all three.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Allium
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: lowbrow]
#27093589 - 12/17/20 06:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I''l eat em send em to me I'd bet money that those are active for sure!
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Anglerfish
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27093611 - 12/17/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Panaeolus olivaceus probably.
Possibly. But a microscope is required to confirm that species a 100%.
Quote:
Allium said: Panaeolus olivaceus is psychoactive 
They are apparently extremely weak, and given the work required to identify them, I'd probably leave them alone and look for something more worthwhile - that is, if tripping is the main purpose of the hunt.
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Allium
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Well cinctulus are extremely weak but people hunt for and consume them as well.
I would just hoard up a big old batch and make tea, nothing to lose by doing that
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: the man]
#27093685 - 12/17/20 08:33 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
the man said: tiny pics but couple do look bluish staining. ya not cincts as fruit in warm weather..
This all of them dried, right around 7 grams. The graying I described on base of stem seems to have become more pronounced as they’ve dried. Here’s some pics, anyone else see a tinge of blue?

PS- they smell just like good cubes now that they’re dry
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/17/20 08:35 AM)
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27093691 - 12/17/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Kaeden be advised, you could be eating uknown species.
Definitely it's not determined to some high confidence. You heard Angler, only scope could tell it apart from the others. Think twice.
That said, I think there are no poisonous Panaeolus sp. but you could prove me wrong.
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Allium
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27093698 - 12/17/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kaeden123 said:
Quote:
the man said: tiny pics but couple do look bluish staining. ya not cincts as fruit in warm weather..
This all of them dried, right around 7 grams. The graying I described on base of stem seems to have become more pronounced as they’ve dried. Here’s some pics, anyone else see a tinge of blue?

PS- they smell just like good cubes now that they’re dry
Those would send me to the moon!
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27093700 - 12/17/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kaeden123 said:
Quote:
the man said: tiny pics but couple do look bluish staining. ya not cincts as fruit in warm weather..
This all of them dried, right around 7 grams. The graying I described on base of stem seems to have become more pronounced as they’ve dried. Here’s some pics, anyone else see a tinge of blue?
PS- they smell just like good cubes now that they’re dry
Many mushrooms smell similarly when they are dried, means nothing.
I see fifty shades of gray, hardly any blue. Maybe a little.
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Anglerfish
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Quote:
Allium said: Well cinctulus are extremely weak but people hunt for and consume them as well.
As far as I know, P. cinctulus are moderately potent, while P. olivaceus are said to be very weak. I can't tell from personal experience, however. I think the best source of information would be to find reports of bio-assays of confirmed finds or cultivars.
The problem with the Panaeolus species not contained in the (former) subgenus Copelandia is that they are, with some exceptions, generally quite easy to confuse by mere macroscopic features. Additionally, with reference to Alan, there is a strong probability that the lawn-dwelling species assumed to be P. cinctulus, is possibly a different species. None of this is hewn in stone, though, since more work is required.
Quote:
I would just hoard up a big old batch and make tea, nothing to lose by doing that 
This is true in a sense, given that there are no toxic species of Panaeolus. I would expect that nothing to little would happen, though, perhaps with the possible exception of a light stomach ache and lots of ill-smelling gas.
On the other hand, you could strike gold unknowingly and end up flying through the ceiling, but I doubt it.
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RenegadeMycologist
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I guess we'll wait and see. I reckon there's no force in the world stopping him from eating those.
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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
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Quote:
Anglerfish said:
Quote:
I would just hoard up a big old batch and make tea, nothing to lose by doing that 
This is true in a sense, given that there are no toxic species of Panaeolus. I would expect that nothing to little would happen, though, perhaps with the possible exception of a light stomach ache and lots of ill-smelling gas.
On the other hand, you could strike gold unknowingly and end up flying through the ceiling, but I doubt it.
Thanks everyone for their input! Interesting stuff. I did read that Olivaceus fruits into December, and didn’t find any other Panaeolus species that said the same. I work on a large cattle ranch so if they are legit I’m in for a treat. Might have to make some tea with a couple grams and risk an upset stomach! The field I picked these from has got an easy 1-200 more growing!
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Allium
Registered: 03/16/20
Posts: 2,722
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Quote:
Anglerfish said:
Quote:
Allium said: Well cinctulus are extremely weak but people hunt for and consume them as well.
As far as I know, P. cinctulus are moderately potent, while P. olivaceus are said to be very weak. I can't tell from personal experience, however. I think the best source of information would be to find reports of bio-assays of confirmed finds or cultivars.
The problem with the Panaeolus species not contained in the (former) subgenus Copelandia is that they are, with some exceptions, generally quite easy to confuse by mere macroscopic features. Additionally, with reference to Alan, there is a strong probability that the lawn-dwelling species assumed to be P. cinctulus, is possibly a different species. None of this is hewn in stone, though, since more work is required.
Quote:
I would just hoard up a big old batch and make tea, nothing to lose by doing that 
This is true in a sense, given that there are no toxic species of Panaeolus. I would expect that nothing to little would happen, though, perhaps with the possible exception of a light stomach ache and lots of ill-smelling gas.
On the other hand, you could strike gold unknowingly and end up flying through the ceiling, but I doubt it.
Thanks for clearing all this up
I can't find any active pans here so I have never got to experience on how weak or strong they may be.
Last year was the only time I found cinctulus in all my years of living here, and they grew form my flower pot because I put horse manure it it.
This all being said, I would never encourage anybody to eat any properly unidentified mushrooms, but since those are pans and pans aren't poisonous, I figured what the heck, I would do it for sure!
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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27093977 - 12/17/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also found these growing in a different pasture about a week ago and they look noticeably different than the ones I found recently. Any guesses on these? Spore print was jet black no picture though.

There was some slight color change on these, and to me they look more like cintulus’s than the new specimens.
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/17/20 11:42 AM)
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27094029 - 12/17/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Noticeably different" ? In what feature? I hardly see any difference from the first collection. Probably just darker phenotype.
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Allium
Registered: 03/16/20
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so, when you going to try them out??? Inquiring minds want to know, like me!
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27094150 - 12/17/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If i were you i would send Allium few grams, he likes to eat questionable pans and you wouldn't have to test it on yourself
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Allium
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Doc9151
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27094265 - 12/17/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Unfortunately, when I expand the pictures they are to blurred for me to see any details. From what I can see, they look like the Panaeolus papilionaceaus group but clear in focus pictures would be helpful.
Quote:
Kaeden123 said: Also found these growing in a different pasture about a week ago and they look noticeably different than the ones I found recently. Any guesses on these? Spore print was jet black no picture though.

There was some slight color change on these, and to me they look more like cintulus’s than the new specimens.
These look promising and it wouldn't hurt to try them...
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Allium
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27094283 - 12/17/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, I can see those pan pap traits too on further inspection, but where the dung be at?
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Anglerfish
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27094471 - 12/17/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: they look like the Panaeolus papilionaceaus group but clear in focus pictures would be helpful.[/url]
This could be true but then only if the veil remnants are entirely washed away.
Personally I don't think these are P. papilionaceus though, but then again, pictures aren't always sufficient to tell, like I pointed out in my previous post.
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HAKR ELITE
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Id make soup out of em
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Allium
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If only all active pans bruised blue, then there would never be any confusion
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27095153 - 12/18/20 12:22 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I haven't seen any good evidence that Panaeolus olivaceus occurs in the USA - it's a name from Europe. I am also not quite sure what Panaeolus olivaceus is, or if it's active. I just got a sample from Europe so I might have some idea soon. I don't know how many species are going under this name, probably a few.
I would guess Panaeolus acuminatus for these, or Panaeolus papilionaceus group, or Panaeolus cinctulus group. May or may not be active, but aren't toxic.
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Allium
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I always though Panaeolus cinctulus form the very beginning, but who knows.
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27095329 - 12/18/20 06:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Allium said: I always though Panaeolus cinctulus form the very beginning, but who knows.
I don't know, it's too cold for them, new year is around the corner. And also kinda off with the appearance. If he proves them psychoactive, and if is Alan right about Olivaceus not occurring in the states, we would be confident they are cincs. But now I think they are probably paps, op said the field was grazed by catle for centuries. If not, acuminatus. But either way, i think they are not active now.
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Allium
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He just needs to eat them and let us know if he gets heaven, or hellish shits
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27095344 - 12/18/20 06:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know why is he waiting so long. At least he should show some common courtesy and pop a few and let us know. All ti's confirmed they are not deadly or highly toxic, so why drag your feet op.
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Allium
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He just might have already
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Kaeden123

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Quote:
Allium said: He just needs to eat them and let us know if he gets heaven, or hellish shits 
Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: I don't know why is he waiting so long. At least he should show some common courtesy and pop a few and let us know. All ti's confirmed they are not deadly or highly toxic, so why drag your feet op.

I do work, lol. I’ll be everyone’s guinea pig tomorrow though... cross your fingers!
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Allium
Registered: 03/16/20
Posts: 2,722
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27095508 - 12/18/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27095539 - 12/18/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Can't wait.
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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
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Quote:
Anglerfish said:
Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Panaeolus olivaceus probably.
Possibly. But a microscope is required to confirm that species a 100%.
Quote:
Allium said: Panaeolus olivaceus is psychoactive 
They are apparently extremely weak, and given the work required to identify them, I'd probably leave them alone and look for something more worthwhile - that is, if tripping is the main purpose of the hunt.
Decided to take this to heart and went hunting for some P. pelliculosa after reading about it fruiting in clear cuts near sulfur tufts, and I was in that same environment a couple days ago. Think I found them, they bruise blue. New ID request thread coming soon!
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Doc9151
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The stipes, from what I can see, they look like the fibrous stipe seen with the Panaeolus papilionaceaus group as well as the color and habitat being consistent with Pan. Papilionaceaus. Pan. Cinctulus, olivaceous, fimicola and the other active Panaeolus species do not have a fibrous stipe that is tough like what is seen in papilionaceaus, nor are they totally reddish brown like papilionaceaus. Based on my observations, the active Pans. Will have an all whitish colored stipe or they will have a combination of reddish and whitish, for example the Cinctulus growing from horse dung I've found will have a reddish base up to about 2/3rds of the stipe then becoming whitish covered in whitish powdery substance, This is before being handled, once picked and laid on its side the stipe appears to be all off white and all the Cinctulus look alikes have twisting lines running the entire length. The only way I can separate them from one another is with microscopy and even then I find some that I just can't get to species level.
--------------------
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27096310 - 12/18/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: The stipes, from what I can see, they look like the fibrous stipe seen with the Panaeolus papilionaceaus group as well as the color and habitat being consistent with Pan. Papilionaceaus. Pan. Cinctulus, olivaceous, fimicola and the other active Panaeolus species do not have a fibrous stipe that is tough like what is seen in papilionaceaus, nor are they totally reddish brown like papilionaceaus. Based on my observations, the active Pans. Will have an all whitish colored stipe or they will have a combination of reddish and whitish, for example the Cinctulus growing from horse dung I've found will have a reddish base up to about 2/3rds of the stipe then becoming whitish covered in whitish powdery substance, This is before being handled, once picked and laid on its side the stipe appears to be all off white and all the Cinctulus look alikes have twisting lines running the entire length. The only way I can separate them from one another is with microscopy and even then I find some that I just can't get to species level.
I think you may be right. Several specimens did have twsting lines like you mention. And also that there is plenty of dung in soil.
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Allium
Registered: 03/16/20
Posts: 2,722
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27096466 - 12/18/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Note to self. Never listen to others trying to convince you to eat panaeolus papilionaceus.
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the man
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27098571 - 12/19/20 11:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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got poops or?
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RenegadeMycologist
On the case



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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: the man]
#27098681 - 12/20/20 02:25 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
the man said: got poops or?
He chickened out. Tossed them probably.
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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said:
Quote:
the man said: got poops or?
He chickened out. Tossed them probably.
I did indeed after finding some pelliculosa and Cyanescens, however I have a buddy who is very curious after reading this thread and wants to try them. They are still growing out there, so I’ll pick more today and let you guys know what happens! If they are legit I’m in for a treat!
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/24/20 11:52 AM)
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27105804 - 12/24/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Woohoo. I did not forget this thread At All.
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Doc9151
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--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27106278 - 12/24/20 05:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here are the new specimens


Very dark(not brown) gills, with white on edges. No veil remnants
 After drying for a few hours.


Anyone see bluing? Also look at first pic, of caps, three stems look at the middle stem. Sure looks like pictures of Olivaceus I’ve seen. Today it was 30 degrees and still fruiting, so pretty confident they’re not cintulus, but I’m not an expert in any way shape or form. Just gotta see if they’re trippy or not I guess! The bruising is incredibly weak overall so I imagine they are not very potent if psychoactive at all. However, even if they are weak, there has to be dozens of doses left to be picked in the field
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/24/20 07:02 PM)
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lowbrow
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27106284 - 12/24/20 06:02 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kaeden123 said: Here are the new specimens


Very dark(not brown) gills, with white on edges. No veil remnants
 After drying for a few hours.


Anyone see bluing?
I’d consider those pans active. That last pic is some nice bruising.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27106296 - 12/24/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said:. Pan. Cinctulus, olivaceous, fimicola and the other active Panaeolus species do not have a fibrous stipe that is tough like what is seen in papilionaceaus, nor are they totally reddish brown like papilionaceaus. Based on my observations, the active Pans. Will have an all whitish colored stipe or they will have a combination of reddish and whitish, for example the Cinctulus growing from horse dung I've found will have a reddish base up to about 2/3rds of the stipe then becoming whitish covered in whitish powdery substance, This is before being handled, once picked and laid on its side the stipe appears to be all off white and all the Cinctulus look alikes have twisting lines running the entire length. The only way I can separate them from one another is with microscopy and even then I find some that I just can't get to species level.
Regarding the color of stem. I feel like the pictures do not accurately show the coloration because of reflection or something. Here’s a good pic of what the coloration looks like after drying a couple hours

And the bruising is very hard to see, if it’s not just a figment of my imagination lol. you have to be at just the right angle, here’s a good pic

Zoomed in same pic

Almost more purple than blue, maybe that’s because of reddish hue of stem mixed with blue? 3rd grade art class coming in handy!
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/24/20 08:31 PM)
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Allium
Registered: 03/16/20
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27106873 - 12/25/20 04:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, I still think they are active too, and not paps at all!
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27106881 - 12/25/20 04:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Allium said: Yeah, I still think they are active too, and not paps at all!
Oh look what the cat dragged, allium is back
And kaeden i see no bruising. There is some discoloration for sure but not sure if i would call that bruise. I think those are paps. Cincs if active.
Say hello to your brave and virtuous friend, who is not chicken like yourself cheep cheep cheep
Merry Christmas to everyone 🎄
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Allium
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Hahah!a do you ever sleep How are you doing this fine morning?
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27106883 - 12/25/20 04:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kaeden123 said: Regarding the color of stem. I feel like the pictures do not accurately show the coloration because of reflection or something.
Always take pictures in the outdoor light, but not directly exposed to sun. Inside lights do the magic and change them
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Allium]
#27106885 - 12/25/20 04:23 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Allium said: Hahah!a do you ever sleep How are you doing this fine morning?
Very well my friend, can not complain. Just fed my doggy and enjoying the christmas rain hoping it will turn somehow to snow. Hope you are going strong ally boi
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Allium
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That's good my friend! Good luck on your snow
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LeafRaker
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27106987 - 12/25/20 07:15 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is the classification of these beyond Panaeolus a largely unexplored area? This past spring, during societal lockdown, was an absolute boon for these and I noticed what was at least substantial phenotypic variation if not outright species differences. It would be interesting to see a Panaeolus paper doing what the early 2020 paper out of Quebec did for Gymnopilus.
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: LeafRaker]
#27107160 - 12/25/20 09:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LeafRaker said: Is the classification of these beyond Panaeolus a largely unexplored area? This past spring, during societal lockdown, was an absolute boon for these and I noticed what was at least substantial phenotypic variation if not outright species differences. It would be interesting to see a Panaeolus paper doing what the early 2020 paper out of Quebec did for Gymnopilus.
Sure seems that way to me!
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27107474 - 12/25/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fuck it, I’m to curious to wait for my buddy. Making 4.5 grams worth of tea right now. This must be settled!
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27107526 - 12/25/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kaeden123 said: Here are the new specimens


Very dark(not brown) gills, with white on edges. No veil remnants
 After drying for a few hours.


Anyone see bluing? Also look at first pic, of caps, three stems look at the middle stem. Sure looks like pictures of Olivaceus I’ve seen. Today it was 30 degrees and still fruiting, so pretty confident they’re not cintulus, but I’m not an expert in any way shape or form. Just gotta see if they’re trippy or not I guess! The bruising is incredibly weak overall so I imagine they are not very potent if psychoactive at all. However, even if they are weak, there has to be dozens of doses left to be picked in the field
These look like Psychoactive Panaeolus in the Panaeolus cinctulus group.
--------------------
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Doc9151
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: LeafRaker]
#27107549 - 12/25/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LeafRaker said: Is the classification of these beyond Panaeolus a largely unexplored area? This past spring, during societal lockdown, was an absolute boon for these and I noticed what was at least substantial phenotypic variation if not outright species differences. It would be interesting to see a Panaeolus paper doing what the early 2020 paper out of Quebec did for Gymnopilus.
There is debate whether or not Panaeolus cinctulus grows in both grass and dung or only dung, it is now Nomen dubium because we only have a drawing to go from, no type collection exist, further study is needed, it's possible that there is an undescribed species resembling Panaeolus cinctulus growing in grass, but microscopy is needed to check for an angular germ pore in an oblique view of the spore, DNA may help as well, but most of the cinctulus look alikes can't be separated from one another using macrocharacteristics alone.
--------------------
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27107557 - 12/25/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said:
These look like Psychoactive Panaeolus in the Panaeolus cinctulus group.
Well good. Tea down the hatch. Will check back in in an hour or so
And also, I found what I am almost 100% certain is panaeolus papilionaceus growing in another similar pasture about 3/4 mile away. and it looks significantly different than these, I’ll try to get pics tomorrow.
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/25/20 03:30 PM)
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lowbrow
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27107572 - 12/25/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said:
Quote:
LeafRaker said: Is the classification of these beyond Panaeolus a largely unexplored area? This past spring, during societal lockdown, was an absolute boon for these and I noticed what was at least substantial phenotypic variation if not outright species differences. It would be interesting to see a Panaeolus paper doing what the early 2020 paper out of Quebec did for Gymnopilus.
There is debate whether or not Panaeolus cinctulus grows in both grass and dung or only dung, it is now Nomen dubium because we only have a drawing to go from, no type collection exist, further study is needed, it's possible that there is an undescribed species resembling Panaeolus cinctulus growing in grass, but microscopy is needed to check for an angular germ pore in an oblique view of the spore, DNA may help as well, but most of the cinctulus look alikes can't be separated from one another using macrocharacteristics alone.
Those waters got hella muddied the past two years.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Icyurmt
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27107659 - 12/25/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kaeden123 said:
Well good. Tea down the hatch. Will check back in in an hour or so
-------------------- 👁️ 🌊 why you are empty. Hunt for the habitat not the mushroom.
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Icyurmt]
#27107693 - 12/25/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Feeling something, not incredibly strong but it’s there. Will go into more detail later! Made more tea and drank it half hour ago
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/25/20 05:44 PM)
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Kaeden123

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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27107703 - 12/25/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah these things are active! I’m gettin a little trippy!
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LeafRaker
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27107715 - 12/25/20 06:02 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was a little worried 4.5g might not be enough...IME temperate Panaeolus are pretty weak. Thanks for sharing, enjoy the journey!
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: LeafRaker]
#27108209 - 12/26/20 03:18 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Woohoo psychoactive indeed. My pressure on you to eat'em has paid off. Now we know another variation of Cinctulus and you got the magic.
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RenegadeMycologist
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To hell with those twisted lines huh Doc !? I can clearly see them on picture where shrooms are on the thin foil. (Middle stem especially shows that feature). Also they (t.lines) are visible in the first collection.
So kaeden, they were growing directly from the soil...? None picked from the dung directly ?
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Kaeden123

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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Woohoo psychoactive indeed. My pressure on you to eat'em has paid off. Now we know another variation of Cinctulus and you got the magic.
Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: To hell with those twisted lines huh Doc !? I can clearly see them on picture where shrooms are on the thin foil. (Middle stem especially shows that feature). Also they (t.lines) are visible in the first collection.
So kaeden, they were growing directly from the soil...? None picked from the dung directly ?
They were not growing directly out of cow patties, no. However, that field has been used so heavily for livestock I’m sure every square inch of soil contains rotted manure. The first 3 of the soil inches is nothing but rotting grass mixed with manure. As far as the lines go, you’re right they were definitely there. It was only of some though, others had the lines doing straight up the stem. I remember reading on some other site that it’s a myth that cinctulus can’t have twisted lines
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27108513 - 12/26/20 09:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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So how was it ? Intense or average ? How much did you end up consuming... did your friend trip as well
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LeafRaker
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27108845 - 12/26/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wonder if animal dung, with its partially digested cellulose, isn't the common denominator for lawn pans? Every suburban area where I see them is crawling with rabbits, as well as seeing the occasional deer.
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: LeafRaker]
#27108854 - 12/26/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not only pans, many fungi species like it. The thing is, it has the same role as coir in home mushroom cultivation. Holds moisture very well and also nutritious in a way fungi requires. Filled with minerals as well.
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Kaeden123

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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: So how was it ? Intense or average ? How much did you end up consuming... did your friend trip as well
I’m gonna have to pick more and experiment more. I took 4.5 grams in a tea, noticed some slight effects. Heavying of extremities, slight mood change, a bit more giddy, but also mildly sedated, no noticeable visuals. I had 2 drinks of whiskey and a couple spliffs, and they felt stronger than usual, however, it was hard to discern mushroom effects from ganja. Felt like I was smoking weed in my early smoking days sorta. After 2 hours I made tea with the rest of the dried mushrooms, another 2.5 grams or so. About 45 minutes later I definitely felt a difference. Perception was thrown off a bit, my head wouldn’t stay still but kept nodding around like a bobble head ever so slightly. It felt amazing to roll my neck in circles. Sedation became heavier. Brightness of colors enhanced slightly, mild CEVs, but mostly just a bit of perception change of space and distance. I did sort of have to tune in to significantly notice these effects, they were there but not very intense. No feelings of anxiety or nausea (common for me) and almost unnoticeable come up. Almost opiate reminiscent in some ways, interesting how each mushroom produces a very different effect. Overall it felt like strong cannabis mixed with more alcohol than I drank and maybe a 10mg OxyContin. But also you could feel the psychedelic aspect in the background, not near as pronounced as cubes especially in the visuals department. Cyans give me an almost speedy trip, and these gave me more of a downer feeling. Will have to pick more!
If there is anyone with equipment and interest to inspect these further, PM me.
Edited by Kaeden123 (12/26/20 12:37 PM)
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: To hell with those twisted lines huh Doc !? I can clearly see them on picture where shrooms are on the thin foil. (Middle stem especially shows that feature). Also they (t.lines) are visible in the first collection.
So kaeden, they were growing directly from the soil...? None picked from the dung directly ?
I said you can't go by the twisted lines to determine the exact species because all the Cinctulus look alikes have twisting lines on the stipe, I never said they didn't matter!!!
--------------------
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27110728 - 12/27/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well they can't help us distinguish active from non active species and we can't use them for exact sp. ID, I have hard time seeing how are they are of any use ? Personally I have seen them on Papilionaceus as well, which is inactive.
Please elaborate, I want to improve my id skills, especially with Panaeolus species. Thanks.
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Doc9151
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My point is that the lines are not of any use, many people say that they are a way to separate cinctulus from the other look alikes and I'm saying that is NOT true because all the look alikes have them. Panaeolus is a difficult Genus for determining species level without using all the tools available and those are a combination of Macro and micro characteristics, as well as Sequencing the the ITS region of DNA, even then it may be inaccurate depending upon how much DNA there is in the database for comparison and whether or not those specimens were accurately identified when entered into the database. Hopefully, Alan will maybe chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, I am not expert on DNA and he has way more experience than I do on the matter, so it would be nice to hear from him on this subject.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27111006 - 12/27/20 04:52 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: My point is that the lines are not of any use, many people say that they are a way to separate cinctulus from the other look alikes and I'm saying that is NOT true because all the look alikes have them. Panaeolus is a difficult Genus for determining species level without using all the tools available and those are a combination of Macro and micro characteristics, as well as Sequencing the the ITS region of DNA, even then it may be inaccurate depending upon how much DNA there is in the database for comparison and whether or not those specimens were accurately identified when entered into the database. Hopefully, Alan will maybe chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, I am not expert on DNA and he has way more experience than I do on the matter, so it would be nice to hear from him on this subject.
Thank you for your answer Doc.
I Wonder how many Panaeolus species is out there, and how many different sp is actually going under the same name. Hopefully future dna research will give us those answers.
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27111014 - 12/27/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: My point is that the lines are not of any use, many people say that they are a way to separate cinctulus from the other look alikes
Yes, I understand your point, that's why I said to hell with them in the first place. Because I heard some wise tales as well like only Paps can have them, then only Cincs can have them etc. Many other features should be investigated as well.
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Doc9151
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I believe that there there are a few synonymous names in the Genus that haven't been linked yet. There are over a hundred named species, of course its the psychoactive species that get the most attention, but I'm willing to bet that there are several going by different names but are actually the same species. If there were more people willing to pitch in and have their observations sequenced, then we could make some real progress but not many people care about the science, they only want to know if they can get high.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (12/27/20 05:20 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,274
Last seen: 3 hours, 5 minutes
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: My point is that the lines are not of any use, many people say that they are a way to separate cinctulus from the other look alikes and I'm saying that is NOT true because all the look alikes have them. Panaeolus is a difficult Genus for determining species level without using all the tools available and those are a combination of Macro and micro characteristics, as well as Sequencing the the ITS region of DNA, even then it may be inaccurate depending upon how much DNA there is in the database for comparison and whether or not those specimens were accurately identified when entered into the database.
Yes that is correct!
Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: I Wonder how many Panaeolus species is out there, and how many different sp is actually going under the same name.
There are 178 species of Panaeolus according to Index Fungorum.
Many of those names are duplicates and many species haven't yet been discovered, so it's probably a rather accurate number.
You can use the sequence data in Genbank to see how many species have been sequenced and uploaded to Genbank, and how many species are going under each name. There are at least 6 species going under Panaeolus papilionaceus.
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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
Posts: 121
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Found a few more specimens from the same spot. Anybody with the means to carry out more research interested?
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RenegadeMycologist
On the case



Registered: 12/05/20
Posts: 3,817
Loc: Serbia
Last seen: 8 days, 8 hours
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27141174 - 01/11/21 02:14 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Hello thery keady boi. This thread refuse to die, and i like it.
So, you have some new mushrooms huh.
I would say it is Cinctulus group.
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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
Posts: 121
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Hello thery keady boi. This thread refuse to die, and i like it.
So, you have some new mushrooms huh.
I would say it is Cinctulus group.
Lol. It’s been a long one. I think these are the last fruits for a while. It’s been a bit drier weather and I think that helps to see the cinctulus properties. When they are wet they are almost black capped. Just so surprised they have been fruiting all through December and into January... not very typical for Cintulus. But not really sure what else they could be! Special Mushies
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