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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: To hell with those twisted lines huh Doc !? I can clearly see them on picture where shrooms are on the thin foil. (Middle stem especially shows that feature). Also they (t.lines) are visible in the first collection.
So kaeden, they were growing directly from the soil...? None picked from the dung directly ?
I said you can't go by the twisted lines to determine the exact species because all the Cinctulus look alikes have twisting lines on the stipe, I never said they didn't matter!!!
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27110728 - 12/27/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well they can't help us distinguish active from non active species and we can't use them for exact sp. ID, I have hard time seeing how are they are of any use ? Personally I have seen them on Papilionaceus as well, which is inactive.
Please elaborate, I want to improve my id skills, especially with Panaeolus species. Thanks.
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Doc9151
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My point is that the lines are not of any use, many people say that they are a way to separate cinctulus from the other look alikes and I'm saying that is NOT true because all the look alikes have them. Panaeolus is a difficult Genus for determining species level without using all the tools available and those are a combination of Macro and micro characteristics, as well as Sequencing the the ITS region of DNA, even then it may be inaccurate depending upon how much DNA there is in the database for comparison and whether or not those specimens were accurately identified when entered into the database. Hopefully, Alan will maybe chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, I am not expert on DNA and he has way more experience than I do on the matter, so it would be nice to hear from him on this subject.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27111006 - 12/27/20 04:52 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: My point is that the lines are not of any use, many people say that they are a way to separate cinctulus from the other look alikes and I'm saying that is NOT true because all the look alikes have them. Panaeolus is a difficult Genus for determining species level without using all the tools available and those are a combination of Macro and micro characteristics, as well as Sequencing the the ITS region of DNA, even then it may be inaccurate depending upon how much DNA there is in the database for comparison and whether or not those specimens were accurately identified when entered into the database. Hopefully, Alan will maybe chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, I am not expert on DNA and he has way more experience than I do on the matter, so it would be nice to hear from him on this subject.
Thank you for your answer Doc.
I Wonder how many Panaeolus species is out there, and how many different sp is actually going under the same name. Hopefully future dna research will give us those answers.
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Doc9151]
#27111014 - 12/27/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: My point is that the lines are not of any use, many people say that they are a way to separate cinctulus from the other look alikes
Yes, I understand your point, that's why I said to hell with them in the first place. Because I heard some wise tales as well like only Paps can have them, then only Cincs can have them etc. Many other features should be investigated as well.
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Doc9151
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I believe that there there are a few synonymous names in the Genus that haven't been linked yet. There are over a hundred named species, of course its the psychoactive species that get the most attention, but I'm willing to bet that there are several going by different names but are actually the same species. If there were more people willing to pitch in and have their observations sequenced, then we could make some real progress but not many people care about the science, they only want to know if they can get high.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (12/27/20 05:20 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: My point is that the lines are not of any use, many people say that they are a way to separate cinctulus from the other look alikes and I'm saying that is NOT true because all the look alikes have them. Panaeolus is a difficult Genus for determining species level without using all the tools available and those are a combination of Macro and micro characteristics, as well as Sequencing the the ITS region of DNA, even then it may be inaccurate depending upon how much DNA there is in the database for comparison and whether or not those specimens were accurately identified when entered into the database.
Yes that is correct!
Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: I Wonder how many Panaeolus species is out there, and how many different sp is actually going under the same name.
There are 178 species of Panaeolus according to Index Fungorum.
Many of those names are duplicates and many species haven't yet been discovered, so it's probably a rather accurate number.
You can use the sequence data in Genbank to see how many species have been sequenced and uploaded to Genbank, and how many species are going under each name. There are at least 6 species going under Panaeolus papilionaceus.
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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
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Found a few more specimens from the same spot. Anybody with the means to carry out more research interested?
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: Panaeolus ID Oregon [Re: Kaeden123]
#27141174 - 01/11/21 02:14 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Hello thery keady boi. This thread refuse to die, and i like it.
So, you have some new mushrooms huh.
I would say it is Cinctulus group.
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Kaeden123

Registered: 12/15/20
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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Hello thery keady boi. This thread refuse to die, and i like it.
So, you have some new mushrooms huh.
I would say it is Cinctulus group.
Lol. It’s been a long one. I think these are the last fruits for a while. It’s been a bit drier weather and I think that helps to see the cinctulus properties. When they are wet they are almost black capped. Just so surprised they have been fruiting all through December and into January... not very typical for Cintulus. But not really sure what else they could be! Special Mushies
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