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Invisible8joker
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San Pedro dose and prep
    #27084684 - 12/11/20 08:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Hi,
I'm trying to figure out the right length of cactus to consume.

I've read some guides that recommend consuming 12'' for a cutting that is 3'' in diameter. My cutting is about 2'' in diameter (so about half of the cross-section compared to 3'') and is 22'' long.

Going by the volume, I should consume the whole 22''. Does that make sense from your experience?

Preparation: I plan to de-spine, peel, cut out the middle, blend and strain.
Some guides recommend freezing before blending or boiling for hours after blending. What does freezing or boiling achieve?


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: 8joker] * 1
    #27085178 - 12/12/20 07:47 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Hi,

freezing does nothing but soften the cells of the plant.
Boiling extracts the alklaoids into the water.
Without boiling a good part of the mescaline remains in the solids.

Yu can blend your peeled cactus with a small ammount of water and drink the sludge as it is (without straining anything). I have done this many times with very good results.
Or you can boil the chopped plant for like 6 hours, strain out any plantmaterial, and drink it. Or reduce this tea down to tar and eat the tar.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26913079
-

Do you have a picture of your cactus?
"SanPedro" is just a term used for any active Trichocereus. Many Trichos are almost inactive, but some rare ones are extremly potent.

Names do not mean much, though. T.pachanoi has been tested for mescaline several times throughout the last century with differing results.
Some plants had up to 5% mescaline, others had absolutely no mescaline at all. But most had 1 to 2 % (dry weight).

Check this out: https://troutsnotes.com/pdf/EGA_2011_SanPedro.pdf

Noone can tell you how potent your cactus is. Too many almost identically looking hybrids are around with competly different alkaloid profiles.
So 8 inches from thin cactus A can send you to the moon (first hand experience here :sun: ), and 30 inches from fat cactus B can do nothing at all. :shrug:

Biochemistry of those cacti is still not understood. Sadly the modern illegality of mescaline prohibits most scentific experiments.
Anecdotical evidence from consumers claims that cacti with short spines are usually more potent than cacti with longer spines. And T.bridgesii seems to be the most consistent variety of all, although it has pretty long spines.

We still know nothing about those plants.
General consens is that 12 inches is a medium dose. I'd eat all 22 inches. Mescaline shines in high doses, a small to medium dose can be boring.

-


Edited by Pandemoon (12/12/20 07:56 AM)


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Invisible8joker
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27085763 - 12/12/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Great info, thanks Pandemoon!

Here's a photo of the cactus. I can take a better photo later, if it helps:


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: 8joker]
    #27088251 - 12/14/20 04:40 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Definitely a Trichocereus, most likely T.pachanoi of some sort.

It's hard to identify without a flower, though.

Could be a clone of the US' predominant cultivar, "PC clone", which is no true T.pachanoi and not very high in mescaline. The upwards poining areoles are a sign for that.
But the wooley stuff arund the areoles is not very common for that specific clone. Growing conditions may change appearance of thoose cacti, though.:strokebeard:

https://troutsnotes.com/pachanot/
https://troutsnotes.com/pachanoi-pachanot/

I'd consume all the 22 inches. :sun:

When I process cactus, I take multiple cuttings, like several different phenotypes, partly from different sources, and combine them and brew them all into one big batch of tar.
This homogenizes the unknown potency variations to one average but consistent batch of multiple doses.
Then I test one dose (like one foot worth), and then I know how strong this specific batch is, and can dose the remaining tar accordingly.

-


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27088536 - 12/14/20 10:20 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Do you have any other pictures?

It might be a potent pachanoi. 

I'd try to cut, dry, and root the tip.  Just 4-5", for future expeditions...  If it proves a potent clone, it can be with you for life.


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: 8joker] * 2
    #27090974 - 12/15/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

hello shroomery! after several years of not being here...

taking off the spines is a labor intensive and pokey job. it is not necessary at all, but I believe it adds something to the ‘spiritual’ component of the experience. it’s worth trying at least once I suppose, but it is not a necessary step and almost guarantees you’ll be poked once or twice.

freezing or blending is totally unnecessary and will muck up the whole process, making it impossible to strain. peeling, coring, etc is just a lot of difficult and time consuming work, possibly more work than you realize before you start doing it - esp peeling. i’ve never noticed any difference in the taste or nausea inducing effects from using just the bright green parts and leaving out the core or the skin/peel layer.

really, just chop it up into star shaped slices and boil in a big spaghetti pot. it doesn’t have to be harder than that. get it low boiling for about an hour, strain it out with a spaghetti strainer then do it again with fresh water. mix the extractions and boil it all down to 1 shot glass = 1 ~foot long cutting = 1 dose. the spines soften nicely, the core stays put where it is, but the green stuff and mucelage snot goes neatly into the water.

clean up and open the windows while you prepare and cook. it takes all day to boil it down that much - but trust me you will not want to drink more than a shot glass of cactus tea, and there’s no reason you should have to. don’t bother with a chaser when you drink it, nothing even comes close to working.


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27090984 - 12/15/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

also a slightly higher dose of sp is probably not going to be a big deal, at least in my experience it’s pretty forgiving.


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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27091504 - 12/16/20 02:33 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

@ ReoSpeedwagon153, Have you tried the powdered extraction form of mescaline before? If so how would you rate it vs the tea extraction form?? I am curious because I have tried Mescaline Hcl and also Citrate and found the hcl the best so far visually. I am trying to find the best extraction for the best visual experiences.


--------------------
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|Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything|


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: Blazer420]
    #27091829 - 12/16/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

yes, I have!

I was pretty into extracting mesc for several years, and all I can say about that is google 69ron’s tek from the nexus - revolutionary. don’t open another can of xylene as long as you live.

a rough alkaloid extract from sp is different from cactus tea - imo not as enjoyable or useful. it is definitely worth trying, but the tea is superior in every way I can tell.

this all changes if you perform a few more complicated steps on the rough, multiple alkaloid extract (obtained by simply salting a cactus alkaloid rich NPS like xylene or d limonene with an acid like citric acid, HCL, or vinegar). usually the extra step involves a cold anhydrous acetone or MEK wash on the extract. this removes something - probably a slightly active/synergistic alkaloid or two - and leaves behind effectively pure mesc. this stuff is wildly different from cactus tea, and it is a true connoisseur psychedelic. it’s annoying because it requires several steps, and the yield is pretty abysmal when you consider the low potency by weight of mescaline. it’s easy to screw up the washing steps and lose some product too, if the semi polar solvent (acetone/MEK) is too warm or hasn’t been ‘dried’ correctly, it can easily steal quite a bit of your mesc.


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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27093308 - 12/17/20 12:12 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I too believe the acetone wash part is removing something special. That is why I had to ask on your opinion with the tea. Thanks for the heads up, I hope I never have to open up another can of xylene like you said lol.


--------------------
~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~
* You need 2 wake up and smell the music! *
-We are all computer data in a materialistic world-
|Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything|


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Invisible8joker
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: flickedbic]
    #27093769 - 12/17/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Here are a few more pictures (some from about 2 years ago, when it was much shorter):



The root part is still alive in the pot. I thought of propagating the head part as well, but there are some circumstances that prevent me.


I will probably trip tomorrow :mushroom2:

Still haven't decided between:
1. de-spine, peel, de-core, blend, drink
2. cut into stars, boil + strain x2, boil down, drink liquid

Option #2 sure sounds easier to do and easier to chug, but will there be no loss in potency?


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: 8joker]
    #27093795 - 12/17/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

8joker said:
Still haven't decided between:
1. de-spine, peel, de-core, blend, drink
2. cut into stars, boil + strain x2, boil down, drink liquid

Option #2 sure sounds easier to do and easier to chug, but will there be no loss in potency?




it’s such a beautiful plant! I miss my old sp garden...

I think you run a better chance of saving the alkaloids by doing the boil method. when you despine, you are left with a lot of green material around the spines you intend to discard - that is mesc. same with the skins/peels, it’s very hard to remove all the green matter from the waxy skin and you are likely to leave some behind. it’s better to boil all of it together.

if you are worried about the heat destroying the mesc or other alkaloids (it really doesn’t, at least noticeably) you can do longer extracts at lower heat and cook the final tea down more slowly. it’ll take a lot longer and in my experience is not necessary at all.


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27095551 - 12/18/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

updates...? just wondering whether you ended up doing it.

I should have mentioned that either way you choose to prepare it, it’s going to be pretty great. the blender thing could make it hard to drink but if you’re determined you can get it down (i’m not that determined when it comes to tasting san pedro).


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OfflineSpacedX
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: Blazer420]
    #27095579 - 12/18/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

MY 2c on this is that I have tried full spectrum mesc acetate (69ron) a few times and it's not very visual.  Must try HCL next.

While rougher on the stomach the raw juice was the best so I will go back and try that eventually.  Freeze and defrost a number of times.  Drink juice.  The delicate flavour is imho better than tea although there is obviously more volume.

You can then make tea out of the solids left after defrosting or dry them out for powder.


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: SpacedX]
    #27095698 - 12/18/20 11:21 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder if you could just dehydrate the raw juice. 

https://www.alcademics.com/2011/08/solid-liquids-dehydrating-liqueurs-in-a-food-dehydrator-.html



What is your dose using this juice only method?  About how much extra cactus is needed to make an equivalent dose of tea?


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: SpacedX]
    #27095714 - 12/18/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SpacedX said:
MY 2c on this is that I have tried full spectrum mesc acetate (69ron) a few times and it's not very visual.  Must try HCL next.

While rougher on the stomach the raw juice was the best so I will go back and try that eventually.  Freeze and defrost a number of times.  Drink juice.  The delicate flavour is imho better than tea although there is obviously more volume.

You can then make tea out of the solids left after defrosting or dry them out for powder.




69ron’s - with no final wash - is inferior to tea or pure mesc (69ron’s AFTER washing). seriously it’s worth doing the wash on the dirty-ish acetates from the limonene tek.


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Invisible8joker
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27095793 - 12/18/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I used the boiling method, and drank it about 3 hours ago.

I have a mild trippy feeling, but obviously my face is not close to melting off.


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: 8joker]
    #27095823 - 12/18/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

in my experience it takes about three hours to come on, no matter how it is prepared. let us know later on!


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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: SpacedX]
    #27095833 - 12/18/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I missed this post - so are you blending then freezing, then saving the juice that runs off when you thaw it? that’s interesting. is the dose adjusted at all or still ~1ft to ~1 dose?


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Invisible8joker
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Re: San Pedro dose and prep [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #27095984 - 12/18/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I think it just wasn't a very potent cactus.

I'll try to choose my next one better :peace:


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