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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Throw your jars away! 2
#27088090 - 12/13/20 11:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, maybe don't throw them away just yet...
***DISCLAIMER***** I love jars for their reusability and hate bags for their one time use and vast waste production. That being said...
Over the last couple months I have made the transition to using myco bags instead of mason jars and I'm wondering what took me so long to make this transition. However, I still used jars as master grain jars to expand to bags. My routine became agar wedge to quart jar-> g2g to 5-7 bags with 4 lbs of WBS. This has worked very well. I was always hesitant to inoculate a bag with an agar wedge as I felt that it would take forever, so I figured g2g from a quart jar would be the best.
I also recently decided to look into blending up agar wedges and grain jars and use as inoculant a la eats slurry tek https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=2&Number=10648149&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=
The increased colonization speed intrigued me, but I always tread lightly when any extra work is needed (yes, I'm lazy).
But last week, I'm g2ging some bags with jars, and forget about a bag. I had already dumped all my grains from the jars, but had a few plates laying around and decided to say fuck it and inoculate the bag with a plate. 
I was just about to slice up the agar, like I usually do with jars, when I realized I could very easily shred the agar wedge with my fingers through the bag. So I dropped the plate in whole, sealed the bag, and proceeded to break that agar plate into as many pieces as possible!
The pictures obviously don't do it justice, but trust me, I shredded the hell out of that summabitch!
This is still a work in progress, as it's only been about a few days since I did this, but the bags seem to be progressing faster than any of the jars. I've been using 2 lbs of WBS in bags as my primary agar inoculation, then I'll be spreading those to 10 or so 4 lb bags.
The great thing about bags is being able to sterilize way more grains per cycle. In my Presto 23 qt PC, I can only fit 10 quart jars. At about a pound of WBS per jar, that's 10 lbs of WBS per cycle. However, I realized I can cram 13 of those 2 lb bags into the same PC (yes it's a squeeze but it's worked so far). That's 26 lbs of WBS per cycle so over 2.5 times more per cycle when using bags over jars. I do increase my sterilization times, to 2.5 hrs at 18-19 psi, but that obviously large increase in grains/cycle is too wonderful to pass up!
I feel like there are many transitional steps in this hobby that may seem daunting to cross, but once its learned, it becomes quite easy. PF Tek to bulk. Injecting spores to learning agar. MS to clones. Jars to bags. I know at every one of those steps, I was hesitant to try, due to it's perceived difficulty. However, once I did it a handful of times, I realized it was not as difficult as I originally thought.
I still want to mess around with making actual slurries with a blender attachment one day, but this seems like a simple way of making a "finger slurry" (that was my nickname in high school... ) without having to mess around with extra steps.
I'll continue to update this thread with better pics and how well things are progressing, but so far, I'm really liking this way of inoculation, and taking jars completely out of the equation! Now what the hell to do with all these jars and modified lids....
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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tedoro
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Rad post. I took such a similar path as you. Years ago I bailed on jars. I assume you are using a hood. I think master jars to bags is the jam, in a hood. Glad things are working.
I finally got a procedure down with bags and no hood.
I make very thick agar plates in extra tall dishes (25mm x 90mm) and blend those up into a huge 100cc syringe. It's a thick jell.
Noc 4 pre-sealed PC'd bags with said syringe in a SAB. Mix a lot right then. The bags (wheat berries) explode and are at 100% in 4-5 days.
So pretty similar to you. I hope you have read Caps SAGAR method, as it is much like your testing.
Bags rock, yet have some technical hurdles to overcome. Glad you are prevailing. Thanks for sharing.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
Edited by tedoro (12/14/20 12:26 AM)
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: tedoro] 1
#27088165 - 12/14/20 01:38 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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curious to see how your smashed up agar recovers. Myc can take a serious lickin and keep on tickin but if you fuck it too hard it has a really rough time recovering. We'll see.
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Haywire
Wetspot Wizard



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next time, try a rolling pin to completely roll the agar and then vigourously shake.
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: curious to see how your smashed up agar recovers. Myc can take a serious lickin and keep on tickin but if you fuck it too hard it has a really rough time recovering. We'll see.
we blend agar pucks in water and use that to inoculate. I don't think this is worse than that.
-------------------- Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto My grows Outdoor patches
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Haywire]
#27088521 - 12/14/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tedoro said: Rad post. I took such a similar path as you. Years ago I bailed on jars. I assume you are using a hood. I think master jars to bags is the jam, in a hood. Glad things are working.
I finally got a procedure down with bags and no hood.
Thanks! Yeah I have a hood. I couldn't imagine trying to make bags work in a SAB but it seems like you've nailed it! Do you blend up your agar with a blender attachment or do you just mix it up with the needle? Either way that sounds like a great idea
Quote:
tedoro said: I hope you have read Caps SAGAR method, as it is much like your testing.
I have read it! Caps always has great write ups. I have thought about trying it with soft agar but I'm hesitant. What I love about my method is being able to scoop up the whole agar puck in one move and drop it straight into the bag. No need for slicing or anything like that. So I feel like soft agar might not actually be conducive to my method. However, if I were to try and blend it up first, then soft agar definitely seems like the way to go!
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: curious to see how your smashed up agar recovers. Myc can take a serious lickin and keep on tickin but if you fuck it too hard it has a really rough time recovering. We'll see.
I was thinking that, like Haywire mentioned, since agar pucks can handle a blender and then recover nice and strong, I figured that the mycelium can handle anything that I can do with my fingers, but I'll check on the recovery today and post some pics. It's been about 4 days since inoculation so it should be looking good today.
Quote:
Haywire said: next time, try a rolling pin to completely roll the agar and then vigourously shake.
That's an interesting idea but I feel like it would be difficult to implement because usually, after getting sealed, my bags are filled with air, and it might be hard to take a rolling pin to it without putting too much pressure on the bag. But maybe next time I'll try and squeeze all the air out through the filter and try it!
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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tedoro
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Yep, just a little 4 ounce jar with an oyster blade... like many others do. Holds about 100cc's. The less water I add the faster the leapoff. I'm not sure why, but thats how it is. About half soft agar to half water turns it into a gel. My whole process is very similar to LC, and I am jealous of LC peeps here that have it down. But my agar is still hard enough to show surface growth (in addition to colonizing the entire puck) and that soothes me to see a clean growth in 2D. And fuck man, 4-5 days is fast. Last year I had bags go 4 weeks.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
Edited by tedoro (12/14/20 10:34 AM)
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Haywire] 1
#27088569 - 12/14/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Haywire said: we blend agar pucks in water and use that to inoculate. I don't think this is worse than that.
I'm well aware. Try blending a little longer and see what happens. Or try shaking an jar just nocced up with LC and see what happens. It is possible to over abuse myc that isn't living inside something hard that can protect it (grain).
He just said he really shredded it. I think it'll be totally fine.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: tedoro]
#27088573 - 12/14/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tedoro said: Yep, just a little 4 ounce jar with an oyster blade... like many others do. Holds about 100cc's. The less water I add the faster the leapoff. I'm not sure why, but thats how it is. About half soft agar to half water turns it into a gel. My whole process is very similar to LC, and I am jealous of LC peeps here that have it down. But my agar is still hard enough to show surface growth (in addition to colonizing the entire puck) and that soothes me to see a clean growth in 2D. And fuck man, 4-5 days is fast. Last year I had bags go 4 weeks.
Damn! 4-5 days is pretty damn fast. I'll definitely have to give this a try
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Verum, you bring up a good point. There must be a fine line between creating a ton of good inoculation points and over abusing the mycelium. I'll have to do some tests and see just how hard I can beat up the myc before its too much haha!
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Lemgrub



Registered: 04/02/18
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said:
I'm well aware. Try blending a little longer and see what happens. Or try shaking an jar just nocced up with LC and see what happens. It is possible to over abuse myc that isn't living inside something hard that can protect it (grain).
He just said he really shredded it. I think it'll be totally fine.
I just started messing with LC and have almost no colonization on any jar I shook after inoculation, and it's coming close to a week. A few others I didn't shake and saw colonization within a couple days. Thought that was really odd.
-------------------- We getting that pirate bay, alien shishkebab cordycep money

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Haywire
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said:
Quote:
Haywire said: we blend agar pucks in water and use that to inoculate. I don't think this is worse than that.
I'm well aware. Try blending a little longer and see what happens. Or try shaking an jar just nocced up with LC and see what happens. It is possible to over abuse myc that isn't living inside something hard that can protect it (grain).
He just said he really shredded it. I think it'll be totally fine.
I have done both, yes. in my experience, the blending can indeed be a problem. shaking grains or substrate after LC inoculation, not so much. never had issues doing that.
only thing that never works for me is inoculating outdoor substrates with liquid culture. I think it dries out before it can get a hold.
-------------------- Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto My grows Outdoor patches
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Haywire] 1
#27089279 - 12/14/20 06:01 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've done lots of tests with LC regarding shaking vs rolling vs nothing. Shaking too hard can and will absolutely beat the ever living fuck out of the myc. I've had it sit stagnant for well over a week before starting up and I've also had it die and never ever grow.
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tedoro
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I've done lots of tests with LC regarding shaking vs rolling vs nothing. Shaking too hard can and will absolutely beat the ever living fuck out of the myc. I've had it sit stagnant for well over a week before starting up and I've also had it die and never ever grow.
I've done tests with my very thick agar syringes. I've always attempted to blend the agar the absolute least I needed to to get it into the syringe. But I found no difference between that and blending it to a smooth gel that easily got sucked up in the syringe. So now I make sure that I blend it thoroughly.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: tedoro]
#27089455 - 12/14/20 07:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's interesting to hear about LC being ineffective if shaken right after inoculation. I definitely do not have a ton of experience with LC, but if I had to guess, I would say I shook damn near all my LC jars after inoculation and don't remember dealing with a lack of colonizing (for better or worse) but that was a while ago. I've been wanting to get back into LC lately so maybe I'll run some tests.
Also, update on the agar inoculated bags. The mycelium has seemed to make a decent recovery but is still really not that quick. Definitely quicker than the jars I inoculated around the same time though. I'll wait till full colonization before making too many judgements. However, I still fully believe these bags will go quicker than jars, even with double the amount of grains. So compared to a 4-5 day colonizing speed of a blended agar slurry, this tek is not the best. But for how little work it is to drop a whole agar puck into a bag, with the increased colonizing speeds, I will probably continue doing this tek instead of jars.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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junk_f00d


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so hey you just drop the whole dish in? do you use a scalpel or just free hand it like a tiger drop? I'll be trying this soon for sure, just wasn't sure what sort of sterile technique I'd use to actually transfer the agar.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: junk_f00d]
#27089624 - 12/14/20 10:28 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I use a scalpel but I’ve thought about tiger dropping it. I haven’t used pasty plates in a while but it would probably work well.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
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I agree with verum. Ive had myc die in an lc when just stirred too much with stir bars
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead] 1
#27089770 - 12/15/20 01:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have never had that happen. What the fuck kind of stirrer do you have? Is it built from lawn mower parts?
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Haywire
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I've done intensive testing on liquid culture. my findings were that 10 minutes per hour harvested the most mycelium. less or more stirring than that decreased yields. However, the difference between continuous stirring was not that big.
and yes, I tested that with a monoculture.
-------------------- Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto My grows Outdoor patches
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TedsDead



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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I have never had that happen. What the fuck kind of stirrer do you have? Is it built from lawn mower parts?
haha! computer fans and harddrive magnets.
yeah, 15 min per hr is what was working well for me.
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27090952 - 12/15/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interesting. I had heard that from some others so did some tests and was never able to kill the myc from stirring. I've done various tests with how much to stir and have decided I don't really care. Now I just throw some myc in and let it start to grow for a few days. Then throw her on the stirrer and leave her there. Unless I have more LCs than stirrers. Then i switch them out whenever I remember to.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Great LC tips y'all! I'll have to take another shot with LC soon
Also, the bags seems to be colonizing nicely and most of them were ready for a shake today. I didn't get any pics of the bags (I'm so bad at taking pics) but I did take some pics of how I cram 13 bags into my Presto 23
   
I basically took Teds method of cramming bags into the All American 75x, but with the Presto. Oh, and these are 2 lb bags, so half as much as Ted is doing. I'm thinking I might be able to fit a few more in there, maybe sticking to another 5 on the top layer instead of 3 but I haven't tried it yet
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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lookintolearn
Stranger becoming Strangest



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How many bags per tub do you use (based on typical 66qt mono) at 2lbs per bag? Two per tub I would guess? I have some bags I want to try out but they are the 5-7 lbs bags so i'd probably at least want to put 4lbs of grain in each one. I do like the idea of the 2lb bags simply for quicker full colonization. I think the move to bags is something I want to work on here soon simply because I hate making 10 jars for only two tubs.
-------------------- Don't be afraid of feeling the feelings Lookin to LAGM 2021    Looking to start growing? Read through Bod's Introduction to Everything Looking to start agar? Start with Alien's Holy Grail Looking to perfect your transfers? Start with D3monic's Perfect Transfers Looking for easiest prep to Coir ever? Eat's UNBUCKET Tek Looking to start LC? Try LI first! Munch's super easy Blenderless LI
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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I use 4 lb bags for my monotubs, so I would use two of these if I wanted to use them directly in a tub, but my plan is to g2g one of these 2 lb bags to 10 or so 4 lb bags, which then each get their own tub.
I am planning on buying smaller bags specifically for this tek as I do feel that I'm wasting a lot of room in these bags, which can easily fit 5 or more lbs of grains each, but I have so many of these bigger bags, I don't mind trying this out and seeing how it works.
Definitely make the move to bags. It's crazy how much grain you can prep when using bags compared to jars. On my grain prep days, I go through a bag and a half of WBS (60 lbs!) I run 13 - 4 lb bags in an AA 75x and 13 - 2 lb bags in the Presto 23, all in a half days work (depending on how fast/motivated I work)
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
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yee! Im glad that pc cramming method is working for ya
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27091368 - 12/15/20 11:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh it's working wonderfully
Thanks Ted! You friggin rock
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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tedoro
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Quote:
mind.at.large said: Great LC tips y'all! I'll have to take another shot with LC soon
Also, the bags seems to be colonizing nicely and most of them were ready for a shake today. I didn't get any pics of the bags (I'm so bad at taking pics) but I did take some pics of how I cram 13 bags into my Presto 23
   
I basically took Teds method of cramming bags into the All American 75x, but with the Presto. Oh, and these are 2 lb bags, so half as much as Ted is doing. I'm thinking I might be able to fit a few more in there, maybe sticking to another 5 on the top layer instead of 3 but I haven't tried it yet
Whats especially good about these 2lb bags is that they don't create large voids that 4lb bags do. I have made spacers for the voids, but this is simpler.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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TedsDead



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: tedoro]
#27091430 - 12/16/20 12:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I bet u could fit 5 ontop instead of 3 for sure!
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27091896 - 12/16/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: I bet u could fit 5 ontop instead of 3 for sure!
Oh yeah I could!! But 13 equals exactly half a bag of bird seed! So I would have to do extra math and we all hate extra math, right?? Haha I’ll try and get creative next time and see just how much can get crammed in here!
Also, Ted, I think I remember reading in your PC cramming tek that you got like 25 - 4 lb bags, out of a 50 lb bag of grains. You use rye right? That’s quite the impressive water intake that puts my bird seed to shame.... I’ll have to start looking into rye soon!
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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20-22 bags. Lately tho ive been doing 20 and if theres extra ill just fill all the bags a little more.
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27092037 - 12/16/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ahh ok, but still, that’s a better absorption rate than the bird seed I’ve been using. I’ll have to get a bag of rye next time I see it
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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lookintolearn
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You are convincing me to make the move! It would definitely be a nice improvement to get almost all my grain prep done in half a day even with one PC. I'm trying to make the move to more tubs which would be much easier to do with something like this.
One more question, do you prep the bags with grain and the correct amount of water? Or do you simmer/soak/ect and then load up your bags? My only problem I would have with prep before loading is the ability to dry them a little before bagging.
Currently draining the water out of 10 jars worth is easy with a strainer or two but with that amount of grain I'd have to configure a big screen which I don't have much room for.
-------------------- Don't be afraid of feeling the feelings Lookin to LAGM 2021    Looking to start growing? Read through Bod's Introduction to Everything Looking to start agar? Start with Alien's Holy Grail Looking to perfect your transfers? Start with D3monic's Perfect Transfers Looking for easiest prep to Coir ever? Eat's UNBUCKET Tek Looking to start LC? Try LI first! Munch's super easy Blenderless LI
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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I've been able to make no prep WBS jars work well, but have not had as much luck with bags. I mean, I have had bags that we're no prepped that did great, but usually if I do a whole cycle of no prep bags, most of them are fucked. I would love to have no prep work great, so maybe I'll play around with the idea a little more and see what I can come up with.
However, the way I prep my bird seed is pretty easy I think. I'll be cooking some more tomorrow, so I'll try to remember to take pictures and do a write up on it, but essentially I boil water, dump in seed, turn off heat, let sit for an hour, then pour on a mesh strainer thing that I built. After 30 minutes of steaming I load them up.
I just realized you said you don't really have a place to dry. What I used to do before I was prepping 60 lbs at a time, was to prep the same way, then scoop out the grains with a strainer, and dump on a towel draped across my kitchen table. After about 30 min, it was good to go! Or maybe use your bathtub for draining haha
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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TedsDead



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when I did wbs I would dump a 20# bag in a 5 gal bucket the night before I wanted to use them. fill with warm or cold water and let sit over night. dump the bucket into the sink the next day and let them drain until they're wet but not dripping and load em up. I would stir them a couple times to make sure all the water drained off.
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27092325 - 12/16/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've been thinking of prepping that way, cause it seems so easy and now that the rain is here, draining/drying can be a bitch and a half!
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
Posts: 2,206
Last seen: 3 hours, 21 minutes
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Quote:
mind.at.large said: I've been thinking of prepping that way, cause it seems so easy and now that the rain is here, draining/drying can be a bitch and a half!
I hope to soon share my lifes work of no prep wheat berries. Its been a long adventure finding what works. Finally having great success with pre-sealing bags of dry berries and measured boiling water. I then put that into the PC and keep the bags at 190f for 3 1/2 hours. At that point, all of the water has be absorbed, and 190f doesn't destroy the berries. I Bring it up to pressure for 90 minutes and let cool slowly. The cooling slowly is key. It lets any remaining wetness get reabsorbed in the warmth of the cool down. Bags are perfect. And you can control the moisture content exactly... to the half percentage point.
Can't wait to try other grains... though I really like wheat.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: tedoro]
#27092446 - 12/16/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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seems like the extra time spent at 190F could be used to just boil and dry the grains. if you spread them out when theyre hot and steaming they dry really fast
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27092469 - 12/16/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: seems like the extra time spent at 190F could be used to just boil and dry the grains. if you spread them out when theyre hot and steaming they dry really fast
Its not actually much longer.... but way easier. But most important, one can do the exact water content you desire, every time.
The old boil and dry way takes forever in my opinion. 45 minutes on the stovetop to boil wheat. The another hour at least to get it out on screens. Then clumsily loading the grains into bags. It takes me about 45 minutes to bleed and bring the PC to temp.
All avoided. My way might actually be faster. But definitely more accurate. And I can't have stinky wheat berries steaming themselves in my situation.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: tedoro]
#27092489 - 12/16/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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turn your PC on before you start filling bags. saves some time with either method
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27092525 - 12/16/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: turn your PC on before you start filling bags. saves some time with either method
This works great! But be careful how early you turn it on, I burned my hand pretty good a couple weeks ago trying to load bags into a very hot PC...
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Messiah of Savants
Shaman



Registered: 07/02/08
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Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
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Quote:
mind.at.large said: Great LC tips y'all! I'll have to take another shot with LC soon
Also, the bags seems to be colonizing nicely and most of them were ready for a shake today. I didn't get any pics of the bags (I'm so bad at taking pics) but I did take some pics of how I cram 13 bags into my Presto 23
   
I basically took Teds method of cramming bags into the All American 75x, but with the Presto. Oh, and these are 2 lb bags, so half as much as Ted is doing. I'm thinking I might be able to fit a few more in there, maybe sticking to another 5 on the top layer instead of 3 but I haven't tried it yet
I hate jars for bulk growing, but they are great for storage, LC's, small isolations, masters, and experiments. Bags changed by life.
I've always been paranoid about the bags touching the sides and heat penetration between bags so I have always used jar lid rings to insert between the bags and sides and also between the bags to allow steam through. I'll even use some tin foil. I burst a bag in my Presto in my first few years of this hobby and I have been paranoid ever since. I also use the old school RR technique of sticking a tyvek sleeve in the bag for the cooldown. Not sure if this is needed, just something I've always done for piece of mind.
Now that I think about it, I think it burst because I ran it too hot and ran out of water. This thread has made me re-evaluate how I've been doing things. If you don't have any troubles and also don't use any spacing between the bags, maybe I should try it. It would allow more grain and less jimmy work of inserting rings and foil.
I should just buy a new damn gas regulator and tank of propane to use my 1941X in the garage, but I just don't grow the crazy amounts I use to anymore. I moved two years ago and this new place has a microwave above the stove and the 1941X won't fit under it. 
I don't seal my bags. I use rubber bands and re-use the bags because I'm just that kind of guy. Depending on your source, some are thicker and make me less paranoid about re-using them, but I've still never had a problem with a single bag bursting from re-use. I've only ever bought bags twice in my entire 13 years of growing. The first was an order of 10 thick ones. Second was an order of 100 thinner ones. I'm still waiting for one of them to burst one of these days. I think it's 100% safe to re-use the bags at least 2-3 times though. Even the thin ones. I wonder how much, if any, more stress is put on the bags over time by putting them against the PC wall.
Btw, thanks again for the PE print. It's most of what I've been growing this last year.
Edited by Messiah of Savants (12/16/20 06:09 PM)
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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I was hesitant to use bags due to many of the things you mentioned, such as bags can't touch the sides of the PC, I need to use spacers, the bags will burst, and the whole tyvek sleeve filter thing, but to be honest, I have yet to do or worry about any of that stuff and have yet to have a problem. I use the 3 mil bags, so I feel a little better about abusing them and every once in a while, one gets a hole in it, and only 3 have ever ripped on me. Most of the problems I've had with them has been me fucking up sealing.
But reusing bags?!? That sounds like a great idea! I'm always more worried about filter failure than the bags ripping but if it's working for you, I'll definitely look into that. I was thinking of turning them from spawn bags to more of a substrate bags and growing edibles off blocks, but I haven't done that yet. The bags themselves seem pretty sturdy after the PC cycle so I don't see why not
Also, you're welcome for that print, I'm glad to hear it worked out for you but it's funny cause I was just talking to Ted about this, but how are your fruits looking? Those prints came off a second flush PE monster that just happened to drop spores, so I printed a bunch and then passed them around. But when I grew them myself, they seemed to produce just normal looking cubes, nothing resembling PE. I was calling it PE revert in my collection and I did grow a decent amount off it, but I really didn't get anything PE like from it. I'm wondering how yours are looking
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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So to clarify you aren't using spacers in your pc? 3 hour cook?
And for real re using a bag? I've tried but it's not super easy getting the block out to fruit, doesn't mean it can't be done maybe by adding water or even just fruiting in the bag. But then cleaning the bag.., and then to seal or not?
Yes to the finger slurry! I actually did that today a little naturally, and it was my first time inoculating bags actually. I'm pretty confident it should work, I've done hundreds of jars in front of that flow hood so, it's just a bag ha.
Nice!!!
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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And I'm right there with you on switching from jars to bags, it cost me like 7 bucks in bags to fill 6 23quarts, but I can cook 50lbs of grains at once, don't have to wash anything, literally pays for itself in time them some right there, have to load half as many vessels, with twice as much grain. Saves work in front of the flow hood, and storage which moving forward means alot, for the hobby grower I would still go jars probably, and tyvek or polyfil lol.
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: QM33]
#27092977 - 12/16/20 08:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes i do not use any spacers as I cook. And I usually go for 2.5 hours at 18-19 psi. I use a few coins to hold down the jiggle weight to get it up to that high psi.
In terms of reusing bags, what I'm thinking, now that I hear from Messiah about reusing, is to turn them into Lion's mane fruiting blocks, as in sterilize substrate, inject LC, then fruit straight out of the bag in a greenhouse, but this is just an idea
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Messiah of Savants
Shaman



Registered: 07/02/08
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Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
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Quote:
mind.at.large said: Also, you're welcome for that print, I'm glad to hear it worked out for you but it's funny cause I was just talking to Ted about this, but how are your fruits looking? Those prints came off a second flush PE monster that just happened to drop spores, so I printed a bunch and then passed them around. But when I grew them myself, they seemed to produce just normal looking cubes, nothing resembling PE. I was calling it PE revert in my collection and I did grow a decent amount off it, but I really didn't get anything PE like from it. I'm wondering how yours are looking
I ran 18 jars with different sectors from 3 different petri dishes looking for good genetics to clone. Only a couple of them had the classic PE look of bumpy/bulging stipe just under the cap, "darth vader helmet" cap, and thick meaty stems. The traits weren't as pronounced as I've seen them in the past though. Most of the rest had some hints at PE looking caps with normal stipes. A couple didn't look like PE at all with normal stipes and normal caps. You could definitely tell there was some PE genetics in there, but this is the first time I've grown PE that had so much "non PE" type growth.
I was reading a month or two back (in the melmac thread I think) about some of the new PE going around had reverted and lost some of it's traditional PE traits. There is melmac spores coming my way from a giveaway (I think you got some too if I remember correctly) that are suppose to be the OG genetics? I'm excited to try them.
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dingdonger22
Stranger
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27093227 - 12/16/20 10:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wait are you saying you stir the LC 10-15 minutes every hour of the day? I am so confused as to how often it should be stirred.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Yeah! I totally got that melmac swab and put it to plates yesterday! I'm excited to mess around with those genetics.
But I'm glad you we're able to get actual PE-like genetics out of that print. Like I mentioned, all I got we're normal cubensis, but maybe I just didn't get lucky with my strain isolation. I still have some of those prints, so maybe I'll mess around with it and see what comes from it! I've always wanted (and so has everyone) to get a PE potent fruit that drops a normal amount of spores, so maybe we can find that in those spores.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Haywire
Wetspot Wizard



Registered: 12/29/13
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Quote:
dingdonger22 said: Wait are you saying you stir the LC 10-15 minutes every hour of the day? I am so confused as to how often it should be stirred.
that's how I do it, yes. but they can be stirred much more but also less. It doesn't matter that much. however, it has to be stirred/shaken/swirled daily.
-------------------- Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto My grows Outdoor patches
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dingdonger22
Stranger
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Haywire]
#27100764 - 12/21/20 11:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh wow, thanks
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Update: one of the bags is now damn near finished. It’s been 10 days, which isn’t nothing to get too excited about, but shit, 10 days for 2 lbs of grains, with only an agar plate inoculation isn’t bad. Usually my jars take about 2-2.5 weeks to complete with agar inoculation, plus these bags have twice as much grains, so I’m liking this method
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Shakedown Street
Friend


Registered: 09/05/20
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Besides applying a micropore-tape patch, what other steps would need to be taken if you substitute a ziploc plastic bag for a plastic myco. bag ?
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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How are u gonna sterilize that?
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27104419 - 12/23/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ziplock plastic bags are not a good substitute for myco bags. Maybe oven bags would work but just get proper myco bags. They are cheap and easy to find
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
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Quote:
Shakedown Street said: Besides applying a micropore-tape patch, what other steps would need to be taken if you substitute a ziploc plastic bag for a plastic myco. bag ?
Discovering a way to sterilized the inside of grain without applying high heat for extended time periods. Have fun.
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
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I'm trying to get into bags I just don't know where to start. I have them, I have everything I need for them actually. I just can't find enough info to being anywhere.
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mushhead] 1
#27104914 - 12/23/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I put four full quarts in to each bag. Fold gussets as nicely as possible. 10 bags fit in my 941 and 9 in my 75x. Bottom three het the accordion fold and any bags on top of those jus get nicely rolled. Carefully place all bags in cookers without fucking up the gussets. Place lid on nice and level, turn heat on high, open stop cock and tighten lid. Wait for visible steam and then let steam for at least ten minutes. Once air is purged (10 minutes is over) close stop cock. Allow to come to 15 psi and set a timer for 3 and a half hours. Make adjustments as needed to keep pressure above 15 and under "caution". Once timer is over, kill heat. Walk away, crack a beer and check in on the ongoing coup. let it naturally come to pressure and then have another beer. Once mildly cooled I carry it to the flow (pre cleaned and running). I download bags With gloved and isoed hands. I also iso my hand up to the elbow. Stack in the flow and walk away. Have another beer. Come back and check the bag temps and realize they cool slow as fuck as my balls. Have another beer and then have another.... and another. Realize that you are now drunk and the bags still aren't cool. Go to bed and noc them up in the morning. LC does NOT LIKE going into hot bags. Grain to grain doesn't mind as much. The bags will read much hotter once mixed so... there's that too. The seal them with an impulse sealer. Tape, close pins, zip ties, bag clips.... can also work but a nice sealer is the shit.
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Shakedown Street
Friend


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mushhead]
#27104921 - 12/23/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh, so myco. bag plastic holds up the heat of a PC for an hour and ziploc bags won't ?
On Nov. 1, 2019, I had a ziploc bag of WBS w/ mycelium growing in it. It was either quart-sized or gallon-sized, I don't remember. I couldn't remember where it came from, and deduced that it was leftover from WBS I had hydrated and sterilized in my PC @ 15 PSI for 90 min.
Then on Christmas of 2019, I was stoked because I got this ziploc bag filled with mycelium and broke it into 6 quart Mason jars -- 3 WBS and 3 popcorn. I called it my "white Christmas".
Then I tried to up my sterilized-grain production game by sterilizing a 2.5 gallon ziploc bag containing grain in a PC at 15 PSI for 90 minutes on December 29th. When the PC cooled to room temperature I opened it and discovered that both ziploc bags had melted and fused together, spilling grains out.
So, in hindsight, maybe I had sprayed the inside of the first ziploc with isopropyl alcohol to sterilize it. I don't remember.
Do the myco. plastic bags hold up to 15 PSI pressure in the PC for 90 minutes ? Is there something special you have to do to them in order to make them endure that much heat for that long ?
Edited by Shakedown Street (12/23/20 09:18 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
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I dunno what’s going on but it’s too easy for me to cram bags into my 75x now. I do 10 with the liner in. Going to run some supplemented blocks soon and see if I can jam 13 without a liner.
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27105002 - 12/23/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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@ a full gallon per bag? I cram them like a mofo. No way i could do more.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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I can easily fit 13 - 4 lb bags of bird seed in my 75x, as demonstrated in Teds tek.
Obviously, having fuller bags will mean less bags per cycle, but I like 4 lbs. it seems like the perfect amount for one tub. Oh and that’s without the liner in the 75x
What I haven’t figured out is if I should remove that hose thing attached to the vent...
Oh and shakedown, no, ziplock bags will not withstand PC temps while myco bags will.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Oh, u can! I get 10-13 4qt bags in my 75x depending on my needs and 16 easily in the 941. I make my blocks bigger and use the barrel steamer for them

Theres 1 tub @ 4 qts... why use more ? Obviously its strain dependent but i used to use 5-8 qts and dont notice any yield decrease when using 4
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
Edited by TedsDead (12/23/20 11:28 PM)
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27105044 - 12/23/20 11:31 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said:

Theres 1 tub @ 4 qts...
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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That is the tub i posted in POTD last night
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27105049 - 12/23/20 11:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I just went back and looked at that tub... damn ted, talk about a packed house!
Good shit dude, what variety is that?
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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That was pbr. Not my work. I just facilitated the growth
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: @ a full gallon per bag? I cram them like a mofo. No way i could do more.
Yeah it’s a full ass gallon bag for sure. Though I’m currently rocking a flash prep load wet prep on WBS which is perhaps allowing a little wiggle on the loading stage.
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lookintolearn
Stranger becoming Strangest



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 574
Loc: Up in the Cut
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27105071 - 12/24/20 12:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Flash prep for WBS? That sounds interesting. I just started trying WBS made 20 jars to see how I like it. Only been using oats and they have been dependable but I keep hearing so many good things about WBS I had to try it out.
-------------------- Don't be afraid of feeling the feelings Lookin to LAGM 2021    Looking to start growing? Read through Bod's Introduction to Everything Looking to start agar? Start with Alien's Holy Grail Looking to perfect your transfers? Start with D3monic's Perfect Transfers Looking for easiest prep to Coir ever? Eat's UNBUCKET Tek Looking to start LC? Try LI first! Munch's super easy Blenderless LI
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I put four full quarts in to each bag. Fold gussets as nicely as possible. 10 bags fit in my 941 and 9 in my 75x. Bottom three het the accordion fold and any bags on top of those jus get nicely rolled. Carefully place all bags in cookers without fucking up the gussets. Place lid on nice and level, turn heat on high, open stop cock and tighten lid. Wait for visible steam and then let steam for at least ten minutes. Once air is purged (10 minutes is over) close stop cock. Allow to come to 15 psi and set a timer for 3 and a half hours. Make adjustments as needed to keep pressure above 15 and under "caution". Once timer is over, kill heat. Walk away, crack a beer and check in on the ongoing coup. let it naturally come to pressure and then have another beer. Once mildly cooled I carry it to the flow (pre cleaned and running). I download bags With gloved and isoed hands. I also iso my hand up to the elbow. Stack in the flow and walk away. Have another beer. Come back and check the bag temps and realize they cool slow as fuck as my balls. Have another beer and then have another.... and another. Realize that you are now drunk and the bags still aren't cool. Go to bed and noc them up in the morning. LC does NOT LIKE going into hot bags. Grain to grain doesn't mind as much. The bags will read much hotter once mixed so... there's that too. The seal them with an impulse sealer. Tape, close pins, zip ties, bag clips.... can also work but a nice sealer is the shit.
Alright so in the last eight hours or so I have done up a bunch of reading on doing bags, now correct me if I'm wrong because that's why I'm here. I start with prepping my grains as I would any grain, this time I'll be using wheat. I have both "larger" (8"X5"X19") 3mil and "medium" (5"X"5X19") 2.5mil. I'm using my smaller bags for this attempt, which will be my first attempt by my lonesome here. I fill my bags, about 4qts per bag. A little more grain in one bag than another wont bother things too much I'm assuming. I know perhaps my bags are either bigger/smaller than yours and could fit perhaps more or less grain than 4qts, idk as I said first time with bags. I can use common sense with that bit. All my bags at this point get rolled up and sealed since I'll be using strictly liquid culture for these, administered via syringe(Thanks Blue Helix couldn't have without ye). There will be a double layer of rings on the bottom of my PC, along with its "canning plate" followed by my bags. Bottom bags get accordion folded, bags above these are to be wrapped filters inward. During this point I am to make sure all my bags are snug within the PC, I understand this is to prevent them from expanding and popping thus causing a big ol' mess. PC for about 3hrs, I have gathered PC time depends on how big your bags are. Stop me lads if I'm off the path, but otherwise am I on spot?
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mushhead] 1
#27105702 - 12/24/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I fill my bags, about 4qts per bag. A little more grain in one bag than another wont bother things too much I'm assuming. True. Don't trip.
I know perhaps my bags are either bigger/smaller than yours and could fit perhaps more or less grain than 4qts, idk as I said first time with bags. I can use common sense with that bit. Yep. Glad you have some.
All my bags at this point get rolled up and sealed since I'll be using strictly liquid culture for these, administered via syringe(Thanks Blue Helix couldn't have without ye). There will be a double layer of rings on the bottom of my PC, along with its "canning plate" followed by my bags. Bottom bags get accordion folded, bags above these are to be wrapped filters inward. I only fold the bottom ones to keep them from sucking in water. If you have them up out of the water you can roll..... wait. You said you are pre sealing. Then it doesn't matter. you can just roll them all and jam them in. Be sure to press as much air out of them as reasonably possible before sealing. Air in the bags is not good.
During this point I am to make sure all my bags are snug within the PC, I understand this is to prevent them from expanding and popping thus causing a big ol' mess. It's definitely nice to get them all cozy. You don't have to though. I've cooked many an uncrammed bag in my day.
PC for about 3hrs, I have gathered PC time depends on how big your bags are. Yes, Think of it like cooking a squirrel vs cooking a moose. Which one takes a longer time in the oven to reach the required internal temp? When I started cramming bags everyone I knew that was "cramming" was cooking for four hours. Little by little folks started eeking down the time. Some do three now. I'm still stuck in my ways and like 3.5. I've heard folks talk about shorter times but haven't tested it out.
Stop me lads if I'm off the path, but otherwise am I on spot?
Merry Christmas
Edited by verum subsequentis (12/24/20 12:06 PM)
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
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I really appreciate you verum, I appreciate the clarification as well, I am the kind to make sure I understand the process as thoroughly as possible. I've got grain in soaking and I'm going to give this give this a true batters swing. Bags have always intimidated me, glass is just so reliable.
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mushhead]
#27106808 - 12/25/20 02:03 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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i appreciate that you appreciate me. It's nice to hear. Thanks.
Bags can be a little bit of a mind fuck but they are pretty simple really. I've had lots and lots of "oh fuck" moments with bags. When i got my 75x I exploded dozens and dozens of bags and couldn't figure out why. Finally, after talking with the folks that make the damn thing, we figured out there was a manufacturing error in the little whole they put the over pressure plug in. RTVed the sucker shut and never popped another bag.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Thats a good tip for failing plugs I imagine. The rtv will give before anything else. I may use this. Very helpful and detailed sir
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27106842 - 12/25/20 02:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Word. People are way too afraid of these things. Even the stopcock will blow way before anything else.
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Shakedown Street
Friend


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Okay, so I gather that I should get the cellophane myco. bags with the filter patches already built-in before I try sterilizing bags for 3.5 hours in the PC. Or should I buy plain bags and add the filter patches myself ?
The only other thing I might need to buy is the electric impulse sealer to seal the top of the bag. Is this right? Should I do this BEFORE or AFTER sterilizing them in the PC ?
Would it be possible to inoculate the sterilized bags of grain with colonized agar, or is it MSS only?
Merry Christmas.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Loc: Canada
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If you want to impulse seal the bags my recommendation is not to cheap out. I did and regretted it, just obtained a better unit and am happy I did. Otherwise I just used zip ties.
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Shakedown Street
Friend


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27107402 - 12/25/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great! I didn't realize you could use zip ties. Thanks, Pastywhyte. What brand of electric impulse sealer do you recommend ? Should I seal the bag tops before pressure-cooking them, or after taking them out?
Edited by Shakedown Street (12/25/20 12:49 PM)
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Land Trout
Stranger



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Just bookmarking this one
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Land Trout] 2
#27107414 - 12/25/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I got this but they are in short supply these days. It’s the AIE 305-HIM.
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27107532 - 12/25/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I went cheap and got the Henky Vacuum 8'' 200mm Impulse sealer. For $22 it gets the job done, but I am getting a better device soon.
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Shakedown Street
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: mushhead]
#27107700 - 12/25/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is there anything different I should do when using G2G or agar wedges to inoculate these sealed, sterilized plastic bags of hydrated grain? I have a SAB, but no flowhood.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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The only difference I would do between using agar wedges or g2g is how I disperse the mycelium. G2g, just shake it. For agar, follow the first post in this thread
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



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for agar I just drop the wedge into the jar. Leave it be, don't shake it up or anything, the myc does the work. I use the ENTIRE agar plate for this because it gives a bigger surface area for the myc to colonize. Though it is common practice to drop small wedges onto grain, some would say that using the entire plate is a waste, but ime it speeds up colonization.
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



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Quote:
Shakedown Street said: Is there anything different I should do when using G2G or agar wedges to inoculate these sealed, sterilized plastic bags of hydrated grain? I have a SAB, but no flowhood.
I think most folks use LC in your situation. SAB don't really mix with open bags.
I myself use LI. One agar plate to fill a huge 100cc syringe. I use 25cc for each 4 quart bag of wheat.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: tedoro]
#27107850 - 12/25/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's the one I have. Love it.
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RenegadeMycologist
On the case



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Should I throw this. Smell like alcohol
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l e a r n i n g t h i n g s
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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If you were hoping for cube myc, you failed. If you are trying to grow some other thing, i haven't the foggiest. No harm leaving it laying around and watching it though. Is it warm to the touch?
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RenegadeMycologist
On the case



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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: If you were hoping for cube myc, you failed. If you are trying to grow some other thing, i haven't the foggiest. No harm leaving it laying around and watching it though. Is it warm to the touch?
Yes it is warm. Smells sourly on alcohol. It was injected with possible cubensis spores. I thought some of this white shit is mycelium. But what is it then? Is it bacterial or fungal lifeform ?
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l e a r n i n g t h i n g s
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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No one here will be able to tell you exactly what it is without seeing it in person or without looking at it under a microscope, but we can tell you that is definitely not cubensis mycelium.
Try again and next time don’t spray spores onto grains. Either stick to PF tek or learn agar
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


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Can't get Straw bags to work
Treacherous, duplicitous, straw
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Loc: Canada
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Warm spawn and a smell of alcohol often points to yeast.
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27109101 - 12/26/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, ive had some bags that smelled like theyd get you drunk as a skunk
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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filthyknees
no coincidence


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27109133 - 12/26/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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You gonna smash it up real good?
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
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Yeah I mashed it around. Did like ten like this. Maybe into six or ten pieces, didn't spend forever breaking it up.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,269
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Man, I hate to argue with you fellas but I’ve dried myc out next to bone dry and shook the hell out of it in water (GLC) until it was the tiniest of the tiniest brittle bitty particles of myc and it’s always grown back.. the only time it hasn’t is when it’s bacterial.. I’ve never had cube myc die because I broke it up too much 
I just GLC’d this RW culture that was dry AF

I left some water in the jar afterwards and the grain sucked up and myc started growing back the next day

I mean, I believe it’s happened to you as you say but wth are you guys doing to it?
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Quote:
filthyknees said:


I mashed mine up real good and haven’t noticed a problem yet. I’ve expanded most of these original bags 10 fold!
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: fahtster]
#27109827 - 12/26/20 10:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Try pouring LC into a bag or jar and then shaking vigorously. I'm fine with arguments. When the truth is the goal, arguments are a blessing.
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,269
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But that’s what I’m saying... I do shake the shit out of the glc jars to knock the myc off the grain kernels. It’s just not computing in my brain as to why the myc would die from that. If myc doesn’t die from being dried out for 6+ months, how does it die from shaking your grain jars around? I don’t think we’re gonna get anywhere from here.. Just doesn’t add up to me. Do you have a theory? Like I said, I believe it happened to you. It’s just weird. 
Faht
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TonyMushrana
is that a Trich again?



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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: fahtster]
#27114249 - 12/29/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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--------------------
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dingdonger22
Stranger
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Tried loading the AA sterilizer full up with bags and seem to be getting burst grains on one side of every bag. All the rest of the grain in the bag looks fine 
 Is it because they were touching the side of the sterilizer??? Everything I've read says thats not really an issue. I did these 9 bags (4lb oat in each) at 16-18 PSI for 3.5 hrs. Can these still be used or should I toss them and try again??
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Sockadin



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They look like the grains are to wet. You can use them and it should recover as long as it remains clean. Burst grains just mean sticky mess, not contamination.
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dingdonger22
Stranger
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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Sockadin]
#27137561 - 01/09/21 12:17 PM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Phew. I had thought the grain was headed for the trashcan. Why would they be burst only on one side though? Thats the confusing part for me. These things were dry to very dry when they went into the bags. Minus the grains on one side of each bag, they look fine.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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If I have burst grains, it’s usually on the side that was touching the walls of the sterilizer, but some burst grains aren’t a problem
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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micelio
Song of Silence


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#27147538 - 01/14/21 11:23 AM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: I agree with verum. Ive had myc die in an lc when just stirred too much with stir bars
I tried fast speed on two jars last week for two hours. what a mistake.
The culture flatten out and laid dormant on the bottom of the jar. They are just now coming back to life.
I have about 30 jars going now and I do allot of hand swirling.
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Haywire
Wetspot Wizard



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Quote:
mind.at.large said: If I have burst grains, it’s usually on the side that was touching the walls of the sterilizer, but some burst grains aren’t a problem
I like to add some gypsum to the grains before sterilizing. after the cycle, I give them a good shake in the jar and it tends to cover the open grains.
-------------------- Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto My grows Outdoor patches
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junk_f00d


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Quote:
filthyknees said:

How did you get it out so cleanly? What's your agar recipe?
*edit: oops nevermind, I see now you just cut a circle around it. at first glance I thought that empty plate next to the bag was all that was left after your transfer. it looked like you got the whole thing in there, like you just turned your plae upside down and it fell right in. I've tried doing it like that before but haven't had luck.
Edited by junk_f00d (01/17/21 02:44 PM)
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Haywire]
#27154021 - 01/17/21 06:39 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Haywire said:
Quote:
mind.at.large said: If I have burst grains, it’s usually on the side that was touching the walls of the sterilizer, but some burst grains aren’t a problem
I like to add some gypsum to the grains before sterilizing. after the cycle, I give them a good shake in the jar and it tends to cover the open grains.
That's a good thought but to be honest, I've used gypsum for both grains and substrate and have never noticed any difference or benefit. Except gypsum is a pain in the ass to mix in a substrate cause it clumps like crazy
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: junk_f00d]
#27154024 - 01/17/21 06:41 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
junk_f00d said:
Quote:
filthyknees said:

How did you get it out so cleanly? What's your agar recipe?
*edit: oops nevermind, I see now you just cut a circle around it. at first glance I thought that empty plate next to the bag was all that was left after your transfer. it looked like you got the whole thing in there, like you just turned your plae upside down and it fell right in. I've tried doing it like that before but haven't had luck.
I do mine with the whole agar puck. I do the typical MEA with 20 g/l of malt and agar. I can usually just pick the whole thing up with a scalpel and it comes out of the dish pretty easily
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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TedsDead



Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 4,998
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If you over cook your grains gypsum can help kee0 them from clumping. If mixing it in a substrate its best to mix it dry to avoid clumping. No real benefit in a cube substrate tho. In casings its used as a buffer
-------------------- weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed... -the fabulous furry freak bros If you can buy it, you can burn it!
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396
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Listen
Stranger

Registered: 10/02/22
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"thought about trying it with soft agar"
what about liquid culture? Wouldn't that give you the quick colonization you want?
Or is the need to constantly test your LC on agar too much of a bottle neck in the process ?
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: Listen]
#28002095 - 10/16/22 05:05 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Listen said: "thought about trying it with soft agar"
what about liquid culture? Wouldn't that give you the quick colonization you want?
Or is the need to constantly test your LC on agar too much of a bottle neck in the process ?
I mean yeah LC is great and would totally colonize quicker than this method. But there’s more than one way to skin a cat. This is just one of those ways.
I inoculate my bags many ways, LC, LI, master jars, wedges, bag to bag, etc. What I choose is usually dependent on what’s available. To be honest, I don’t really use this method that much anymore. If I wanted to use a plate to noc bags, I would probably blend it up first as LI. But either way, this method can and does work
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


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Re: Throw your jars away! [Re: TedsDead]
#28002149 - 10/16/22 05:51 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
TedsDead said: If you over cook your grains gypsum can help kee0 them from clumping. If mixing it in a substrate its best to mix it dry to avoid clumping. No real benefit in a cube substrate tho. In casings its used as a buffer
wtf
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said:
Quote:
TedsDead said: If you over cook your grains gypsum can help kee0 them from clumping. If mixing it in a substrate its best to mix it dry to avoid clumping. No real benefit in a cube substrate tho. In casings its used as a buffer
wtf
Huh?
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Syntex
Some Bloke



Registered: 10/02/22
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Quote:
mind.at.large said:
Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said:
Quote:
TedsDead said: If you over cook your grains gypsum can help kee0 them from clumping. If mixing it in a substrate its best to mix it dry to avoid clumping. No real benefit in a cube substrate tho. In casings its used as a buffer
wtf
Huh?
Wut?
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