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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
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COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review
#27085369 - 12/12/20 09:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am posting this here as I think it is vital that people see this while being important and worrying enough that it deserves not to be buried beneath a thousand other posts in the Covid chat thread. I think people will agree if they watch the video that it most certainly is important enough to warrant its own thread.
A description is provided as requested (although I would have happily provided this before had you asked me rather than immediately locking the other thread Enlil).
The video shows Pierre Kory, M.D., Associate Professor calling into question the need for new vaccines and citing research into other drugs that he claims are effective in treating Covid while lambasting the governments refusal to support him and his team. Well he'll explain better than I ever could...
Pierre Kory, M.D., Associate Professor delivers passionate testimony during the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee hearing on "Early Outpatient Treatment: An Essential Part of a COVID-19 Solution, Part II."
I think people will find what he is saying both worrying and compelling. Check out the end of the video as well! There's your BLM! It has only ever been a cynical sham in my opinion.
Thanks
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: wolf8312]
#27085486 - 12/12/20 10:59 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interesting video.
In summary, Dr Peter Cory (University of Wisconsin) says there is data showing that ivermectin has proven to be an extremely effective prophylactic against Covid-19.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Oh so now you know what prophylactic means
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koods
Ribbit



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Interesting video.
In summary, Dr Peter Cory (University of Wisconsin) says there is data showing that ivermectin has proven to be an extremely effective prophylactic against Covid-19.
No
Sounds like more Q lunacy
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (12/12/20 04:13 PM)
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: koods]
#27086036 - 12/12/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9768999400
Unfortunately many doctors don’t have the greatest research skills. Positive results from in vitro studies do not at all mean something will work in vivo. I could pick a random supplement or chemical out of my closet and have a decent chance it could show promising in vitro results against a virus.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: koods]
#27086050 - 12/12/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9768999400
From your article: “We need to get much more data before we can say this is a definitive treatment”
Quote:
koods said: No
Sounds like more Q lunacy
Do you have the "much more data" that is needed showing it doesn't work?
I'm not saying it does, I just summarized the video, but I won't just make believe it doesn't work either like you do. That's not science.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: feevers] 1
#27086054 - 12/12/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Doctors absolutely overestimate their abilities. And then you get the 10% or so that just want to scam people like zelenko.
There is a proper way to do science and political hearings are not the way
This is the Forthysia subplot from outbreak
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Posts: 106,045
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
feevers said: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9768999400
From your article: “We need to get much more data before we can say this is a definitive treatment”
Quote:
koods said: No
Sounds like more Q lunacy
Do you have the "much more data" that is needed showing it doesn't work?
I'm not saying it does, I just summarized the video, but I won't just make believe it doesn't work either like you do. That's not science. 
It doesn’t work
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: koods]
#27086067 - 12/12/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Scammers push off patent drugs all the time because they can be awarded a new patent if by some miracle the shit works.m
Healthcare is full of grifters
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (12/12/20 04:42 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: koods] 1
#27086069 - 12/12/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you have the "much more data" that is needed showing it doesn't work?
It doesn’t work
Ah, make believe. As usual.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit



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Lol come on dude. He went to a political hearing wearing a lab coat. That is just a silly appeal to authority.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
feevers said: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9768999400
From your article: “We need to get much more data before we can say this is a definitive treatment”
Do you have the "much more data" that is needed showing it doesn't work?
No, you’re misinterpreting the quote and how this kind of research works if you think that’s necessary. We don’t say something works just because we haven’t yet proved that it doesn’t. Once we have proof that something works, that’s when we say it works. This drug is not there yet and likely never will be.
In vitro and preliminary studies lead to all sorts of media twists and “miracle cure” pushers like this guy. At this point there is more preliminary evidence that smoking cigarettes is an effective prophylactic than there is for this drug. This guy is almost certainly a charlatan who either lacks research skills/knowledge or more likely is grifting.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: feevers]
#27086242 - 12/12/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you have the "much more data" that is needed showing it doesn't work?
No, you’re misinterpreting the quote and how this kind of research works if you think that’s necessary. We don’t say something works just because we haven’t yet proved that it doesn’t. Once we have proof that something works, that’s when we say it works. This drug is not there yet...
Yes, I know and I already agreed with that.
Quote:
feevers said: ...and likely never will be.
Now HERE'S where I need your expertise.
After a study in Argentina on 1200 healthcare workers, 800 of whom were given ivermectin and didn't get Covid, 400 of whom didn't get ivermectin of which over 50% caught Covid, PLUS four new studies on 1,500 people showing similar results, how do you know it likely will never work?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: koods] 1
#27086247 - 12/12/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Lol come on dude. He went to a political hearing wearing a lab coat. That is just a silly appeal to authority.
Did anyone here claim he is right because of his lab coat?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said: Lol come on dude. He went to a political hearing wearing a lab coat. That is just a silly appeal to authority.
Did anyone here claim he is right because of his lab coat? 
Makes me question why Fauci doesn't show up in a lab coat.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: HamHead] 2
#27086504 - 12/12/20 11:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interesting that certain (left wing/liberal?) members of this political forum would immediately seek to attack the integrity of a doctor who is working on the front-lines saving lives!
A man fighting for and watching his patients die on a daily basis is predictably but much more worryingly immediately branded a dishonest charlatan or loon by some (themselves very dubious) posters on an internet forum with no medical training and lets be honest no idea if what this highly qualified professor is saying is actually correct or not! Nah lets just smear him!
And what hard hitting evidence do they propose exposes this dastardly and cowardly money grubbing charlatan?
He was wearing a lab coat!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: wolf8312]
#27086518 - 12/12/20 11:34 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wonder if the big pharma vaccine companies are trying to keep this story down? The establishment media doesn't seem interested.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I wonder if the big pharma vaccine companies are trying to keep this story down? The establishment media doesn't seem interested. 
If there is indeed any truth to what he is saying (I found him pretty convincing) I would think almost certainly. How much is this new vaccine going to cost Americans does anyone have an inkling yet?
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:] Now HERE'S where I need your expertise.
After a study in Argentina on 1200 healthcare workers, 800 of whom were given ivermectin and didn't get Covid, 400 of whom didn't get ivermectin of which over 50% caught Covid, PLUS four new studies on 1,500 people showing similar results, how do you know it likely will never work?
Do you have a link to the study. I checked the usual databases and couldn't find that one. If it's new I haven't seen it yet, if it's the old one that was getting passed around frequently the data was not reliable and the study has been pulled. A physician at my wife's hospital was actually a co-author on the paper and hes the one who requested it be pulled, not sure if its the one you're referring to though.
Quote:
"One of the most influential studies on ivermectin’s effect in COVID-19 patients was a large observational study that used a database owned by Surgisphere, a now-discredited Illinois-based company founded by vascular surgeon Sapan Desai. That study, published on the preprint server SSRN in early April and updated a couple weeks later, reported a strong positive association between ivermectin treatment and COVID-19 patient survival, and has been cited in white papers and reports by Latin American health researchers and governments as evidence of the drug’s efficacy
But the preprint disappeared at the end of May after scientists began pointing out problems with Surgisphere’s dataset—which by that point had been used in high-profile studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) and The Lancet. Both journals issued retractions earlier this month after Desai’s coauthors said they were unable to verify the validity of Surgisphere’s COVID-19 patient data. Investigations by The Scientist and The Guardian also revealed discrepancies in Surgisphere’s claims going back years, and the company’s website has now been taken offline. Desai did not respond to multiple requests for comment from The Scientist."
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/surgisphere-sows-confusion-about-another-unproven-covid19-drug-67635
If the drug works, that's incredible and I'm happy to be wrong. The problem is that this exact same scenario has played out with handfuls of drugs already. In-vitro studies are miraculous, observational studies look promising, then the drug's efficacy falls apart once it's put to a more rigorous test. Because of COVID these studies that have large and dangerous flaws get published on an accelerated schedule before data is verified and peer review is completed. Until I see blinded rct's or more verifiable data from respected researchers, it makes no sense to think this drug will be any different from the other miracle drugs.
COVID acts in such a way that it seems very unlikely that standard/safe doses of any drug not specifically developed for the virus will act as an effective prophylactic, most drugs that have shown results are given to already sick people in large doses in hospital settings. Data in the in vitro studies suggest that even a dose 10x what the FDA recommends as safe had results that were below the effective/therapeutic level.
Results from one study found that standard doses of ivermectin in humans showed no effect with COVID on either a clinical level or a microbiological level. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: wolf8312]
#27086788 - 12/13/20 06:21 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: Interesting that certain (left wing/liberal?) members of this political forum would immediately seek to attack the integrity of a doctor who is working on the front-lines saving lives!
A man fighting for and watching his patients die on a daily basis is predictably but much more worryingly immediately branded a dishonest charlatan or loon by some (themselves very dubious) posters on an internet forum with no medical training and lets be honest no idea if what this highly qualified professor is saying is actually correct or not! Nah lets just smear him!
And what hard hitting evidence do they propose exposes this dastardly and cowardly money grubbing charlatan?
He was wearing a lab coat!
So not only do you easily believe unfounded claims, but you spout them as well.
Anyting that goes against your narrow view of reality is liberal propaganda, right? Taking cues from Trump I see. I totally trust your judgement on analyzing medical reserach. I'm sure you have a PhD in Youtube.
Please tell me how you know about my medical and research background. Where am I working right now? I'll give you a hint, it involves a hazmat suit at the moment.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: feevers]
#27086828 - 12/13/20 07:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184
For this retrospective study, we identified hospitalized patients diagnosed with SARS-CoV-2 infection receiving IVM between March 10th and 30th 2020 in Hospital Clinic in Barcelona, Spain. Patients from countries endemic for Strongyloides stercoralis receiving immunosuppressant drugs such as corticosteroids or tocilizumab for COVID-19 were empirically treated with IVM 200μg/kg, single dose, following standard hospital procedures based on international recommendations (IVM group) [6].
During the study period a total of 13 severe COVID-19 patients receiving immunosuppressant therapy were treated with IVM at 200 μg/kg, single dose. In the IVM group, 5 (38.5%) patients were treated with tocilizumab, 3 (23.1%) with high doses of steroids, 3 (23.1%) with both tocilizumab and steroids, and 2 (15.3%) with tocilizumab, steroids and anakinra. Five patients required admission to an ICU. IVM was administered a median of 12 (IQR 8–18) days after the initiation of symptoms. In the non-IVM group, six (46.2%) patients were treated with tocilizumab and steroids, 2 (15.3%) with anakinra and steroids, 2 (15.3%) with tocilizumab, 2 (15.3%) with high doses of steroids and 1 with siltuximab.
Following hospital protocols at that moment, all patients received hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. All patients in the control group and 12 up to the 13 patients in the IVM group were also treated with lopinavir/ritonavir. One patient in the IVM group did not receive lopinavir/ritonavir due to diarrhea. Two patients in the IVM group and one in the control group were also treated with remdesivir and one patient in the IVM group and two in the control group received beta-interferon. Comparison of baseline characteristics, clinical presentation, treatment and outcomes between COVID-19 patients treated with and without IVM is shown in Table 1. Although no significant differences in baseline characteristics were observed between groups, a higher proportion of patients in the IVM group required admission to an intensive care unit (ICU) (69% vs 38% in the non-IVM group) (Table 1).
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I have been criticized for posting retrospective studies, so you will too.
Looks like they're administering too late. It's known that early treatment is better.
It's going to be tough to find any medication to save lives once they're so far into a disease. Especially when a majority if those who perish are elderly with compromised immune systems.
Simple prophylactics such as vitamin D, C, zinc and magnesium would probably be more beneficial than some of these pharmaceuticals, even HCQ, at preventing severe covid 19 disease.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,469
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I wonder if the big pharma vaccine companies are trying to keep this story down? The establishment media doesn't seem interested. 
The NIH doesn't recommend the use of Ivermectin. There's no real story for the media to tell.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: Enlil]
#27086851 - 12/13/20 07:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I wonder if the big pharma vaccine companies are trying to keep this story down? The establishment media doesn't seem interested. 
The NIH doesn't recommend the use of Ivermectin. There's no real story for the media to tell.
"Last Updated: August 27, 2020
Clinical Data in Patients With COVID-19 The available clinical data on the use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 are limited.
Retrospective Analysis of Using Ivermectin in Patients With COVID-19 This study has not been peer reviewed.
This retrospective analysis of consecutive patients with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection (27% with severe COVID-19) who were admitted to four Florida hospitals compared patients who received at least one dose of ivermectin (n = 173) to those who received "usual care" (n = 103).
Ninety percent of the ivermectin group and 97% of the usual care group received hydroxychloroquine (the majority received hydroxychloroquine in conjunction with azithromycin).
Limitations This was a retrospective analysis. The study included little or no information on oxygen saturation or radiographic findings. It was also unclear whether therapeutic interventions other than hydroxychloroquine, such as remdesivir or dexamethasone, were used in the study. The timing of therapeutic interventions was not standardized; if the timing is not accounted for, it can bias the survival comparison. The analyses of the durations of ventilation and hospitalization do not appear to account for death as a competing risk.
Interpretation The limitations of this retrospective analysis make it difficult to draw conclusions about the efficacy of using ivermectin to treat patients with COVID-19."
Needs updates, August 27? It's December, 3 months later, why no further updates?
Tough to find a drug that works when so many are being given at once. Which ones are working and at what times?
Might want to reevaluate what the 'standards' of treatment are, now that it's known that Remdesivir isn't effective either.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,469
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: HamHead]
#27086857 - 12/13/20 07:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe there's no good recent information to justify an update. I certainly trust the NIH over some randos on the internet.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: HamHead]
#27086908 - 12/13/20 08:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184
For this retrospective study, we identified hospitalized patients diagnosed with SARS-CoV-2 infection receiving IVM between March 10th and 30th 2020 in Hospital Clinic in Barcelona, Spain. Patients from countries endemic for Strongyloides stercoralis receiving immunosuppressant drugs such as corticosteroids or tocilizumab for COVID-19 were empirically treated with IVM 200μg/kg, single dose, following standard hospital procedures based on international recommendations (IVM group) [6].
During the study period a total of 13 severe COVID-19 patients receiving immunosuppressant therapy were treated with IVM at 200 μg/kg, single dose. In the IVM group, 5 (38.5%) patients were treated with tocilizumab, 3 (23.1%) with high doses of steroids, 3 (23.1%) with both tocilizumab and steroids, and 2 (15.3%) with tocilizumab, steroids and anakinra. Five patients required admission to an ICU. IVM was administered a median of 12 (IQR 8–18) days after the initiation of symptoms. In the non-IVM group, six (46.2%) patients were treated with tocilizumab and steroids, 2 (15.3%) with anakinra and steroids, 2 (15.3%) with tocilizumab, 2 (15.3%) with high doses of steroids and 1 with siltuximab.
Following hospital protocols at that moment, all patients received hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. All patients in the control group and 12 up to the 13 patients in the IVM group were also treated with lopinavir/ritonavir. One patient in the IVM group did not receive lopinavir/ritonavir due to diarrhea. Two patients in the IVM group and one in the control group were also treated with remdesivir and one patient in the IVM group and two in the control group received beta-interferon. Comparison of baseline characteristics, clinical presentation, treatment and outcomes between COVID-19 patients treated with and without IVM is shown in Table 1. Although no significant differences in baseline characteristics were observed between groups, a higher proportion of patients in the IVM group required admission to an intensive care unit (ICU) (69% vs 38% in the non-IVM group) (Table 1).
--------
I have been criticized for posting retrospective studies, so you will too.
Looks like they're administering too late. It's known that early treatment is better.
It's going to be tough to find any medication to save lives once they're so far into a disease. Especially when a majority if those who perish are elderly with compromised immune systems.
Simple prophylactics such as vitamin D, C, zinc and magnesium would probably be more beneficial than some of these pharmaceuticals, even HCQ, at preventing severe covid 19 disease.
It wasn't a study on prophylactic use, they looked at biomarkers and the ivermectin did not have any effect, those who did not receive the ivermectin actually did better. It's just preliminary evidence suggesting ivermectin likely does not influence the course of the disease at all. The results have a good chance of translating over towards earlier and prophylactic use because they showed zero effect on any relevant biological markers to fighting off COVID. Even without that study (which was small and not all that convincing) I'd still have close to zero faith in the drug.
In-vitro it's easy to saturate a virus with whatever chemical you're looking to study, in humans, it's usually not. The in-vitro level of exposure they used is not attainable in humans, making the research that all of this hype was based upon completely irrelevant.
"The available pharmacokinetic data for ivermectin indicate that at the doses routinely used for the management of parasitic diseases the SARS-CoV-2 inhibitory concentrations are practically not attainable. At present any empiric treatment with ivermectin or its inclusion in therapeutic protocols are not scientifically justifiable. The very consideration of the drug as a broad spectrum antiviral agent is incorrect because it has failed to demonstrate antiviral effects beyond the in vitro level. Pending the paucity of reliable data from controlled studies and the aforementioned pharmacokinetic considerations, the application of ivermectin in COVID-19 patients is to be decisively discouraged."
"The analyzed data show that, at least at the clinically relevant dose ranges of ivermectin, the published in vitro inhibitory concentrations and especially the 5 µmol/L level causing almost total disappearance of viral RNA are virtually not achievable with the heretofore known dosing regimens in humans. The 5 µmol/L concentration is over 50 times higher than the levels attainable after 700 μg/kg [25] and 17 times higher vs. the largest Cmax found in the literature survey (247.8 ng/ml) [12]. Moreover the authors` claim for achieving viral inhibition with a single dose is inappropriate because practically the infected cells have been continuously exposed at concentrations that are virtually unattainable even with excessive dosing of the drug. In other words, the experimental design is based on clinically irrelevant drug levels with inhibitory concentrations whose targeting in a clinical trial seems doubtful at best." "Ivermectin has been previously shown to exert antiviral activity in vitro against Dengue fever virus (DENV) [28], influenza virus [38], West Nile Virus [26], Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus [27] and heralded as a possible antiviral drug, but so far there has not been any clinical translation of these data. Noteworthy, a clinical trial for the treatment of Dengue fever in Thailand failed to show clinical benefits [11]. In light of the aforementioned pharmacokinetic considerations, this is not surprising given that the published inhibitory concentrations against DENV1-4 ranged within 1.66–2.32 µmol/L [28]."
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13102818.2020.1775118
Edited by feevers (12/13/20 09:01 AM)
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wolf8312
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: feevers] 1
#27086913 - 12/13/20 08:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
wolf8312 said: Interesting that certain (left wing/liberal?) members of this political forum would immediately seek to attack the integrity of a doctor who is working on the front-lines saving lives!
A man fighting for and watching his patients die on a daily basis is predictably but much more worryingly immediately branded a dishonest charlatan or loon by some (themselves very dubious) posters on an internet forum with no medical training and lets be honest no idea if what this highly qualified professor is saying is actually correct or not! Nah lets just smear him!
And what hard hitting evidence do they propose exposes this dastardly and cowardly money grubbing charlatan?
He was wearing a lab coat!
So not only do you easily believe unfounded claims, but you spout them as well.
Sorry can you quote me directly? Which claims was I spouting? I did say that I found what he was saying convincing but I never stated that what he was saying was true.
Equally though I could ask you, on what foundation are you basing your assumption that this doctor is a grifting Charlatan?
I objected to the fact that you (and others) are vindictively attacking this doctors integrity without providing any evidence whatsoever to support such claims.
Quote:
Anything that goes against your narrow view of reality is liberal propaganda, right? Taking cues from Trump I see.
You seem to have me confused with someone else. I most certainly do not believe that the US/UK media/ government is controlled by liberals! You say that I have a narrow view of reality but yours seems restricted to the extent that you obviously assume that everyone is either one of two things. Pro-trump. Or, Anti-Trump.
Quote:
I totally trust your judgment on analyzing medical research.
At the end of the day the video was put up there for other people to make up their own minds. My intention is to make people aware of this and share it as widely as possible. If it's not true then believe me I would be much happier than if it actually is.
I knew well before even posting it there would be those who would immediately seek to attack the doctors credibility employing ad hominem smear tactics with a few logical fallacies (appeal to expert?) thrown in though without presenting any substantial evidence to support what they were saying.
Quote:
Where am I working right now? I'll give you a hint, it involves a hazmat suit at the moment.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (12/13/20 08:46 AM)
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feevers



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: wolf8312] 1
#27086953 - 12/13/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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You referred to us as dubious posters with no medical training.
People were saying things you didn't want to hear, you respond by spouting insults and bullshit claims instead of evidence to support this doctor's hypothesis. That's an incredibly misguided and childish way to debate an issue that you brought to the table.
Quote:
Equally though I could ask you, on what foundation are you basing your assumption that this doctor is a grifting Charlatan?
Never said he was, just said he most likely is because that's what every other miracle drug promoter so far has been doing. I also said he just might not be very skilled at understanding research.
Quote:
I objected to the fact that you (and others) are vindictively attacking this doctors integrity without providing any evidence whatsoever to support such claims.
I'm not attacking anyone, I gave a simple opinion and evidence.
Quote:
I knew well before even posting it there would be those who would immediately seek to attack the doctors credibility employing ad hominem smear tactics with a few logical fallacies (appeal to expert?) thrown in though without presenting any substantial evidence to support what they were saying.
Projection, nice. To anyone who understands how to critically analyze research, the answer I gave was all the evidence needed. More research is needed, the studies now don't support his take on it. If better evidence comes to the table, I'm happy to re-assess.
You responded with ad hom smear tactics, logical fallacies, and zero evidence against what I've posted.
Quote:

Sure, your appeal to authority saying the doctor works with covid patients was useful and necessary, but the fact that I also work with covid patients is irrelevant.
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wolf8312
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: feevers]
#27087032 - 12/13/20 09:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said: You referred to us as dubious posters with no medical training.
People were saying things you didn't want to hear, you respond by spouting insults and bullshit claims instead of evidence to support this doctor's hypothesis. That's an incredibly misguided and childish way to debate an issue that you brought to the table.
Quote:
Equally though I could ask you, on what foundation are you basing your assumption that this doctor is a grifting Charlatan?
Never said he was, just said he most likely is because that's what every other miracle drug promoter so far has been doing. I also said he just might not be very skilled at understanding research.
Quote:
I objected to the fact that you (and others) are vindictively attacking this doctors integrity without providing any evidence whatsoever to support such claims.
I'm not attacking anyone, I gave a simple opinion and evidence.
Quote:
I knew well before even posting it there would be those who would immediately seek to attack the doctors credibility employing ad hominem smear tactics with a few logical fallacies (appeal to expert?) thrown in though without presenting any substantial evidence to support what they were saying.
Projection, nice. To anyone who understands how to critically analyze research, the answer I gave was all the evidence needed. More research is needed, the studies now don't support his take on it. If better evidence comes to the table, I'm happy to re-assess.
You responded with ad hom smear tactics, logical fallacies, and zero evidence against what I've posted.
Quote:

Sure, your appeal to authority saying the doctor works with covid patients was useful and necessary, but the fact that I also work with covid patients is irrelevant.
Well to be fair you're just a guy on the internet. If you claim to be an expert I might listen but it really depends on the evidence and arguments you put forward.
Quote:
People were saying things you didn't want to hear, you respond by spouting insults and bullshit claims instead of evidence to support this doctor's hypothesis. That's an incredibly misguided and childish way to debate an issue that you brought to the table.
But didn't you respond to the OP by doing the same thing? With the same insults and attacks upon the doctor himself, and it was this that I myself was objecting to?
You even say yourself now that more studies do indeed need to be carried out. So why are we even arguing? We are in agreement that this guy may indeed well be right and what he is saying should be taken seriously or more studies carried out, no?
Quote:
I'm not attacking anyone, I gave a simple opinion and evidence.
The only thing is though you didn't seem to be quite so reasonable when originally you said:
Quote:
This guy is almost certainly a charlatan who either lacks research skills/knowledge or more likely is grifting.
If I said 'this guys almost certainly a rapist and likely a nonce' could that not rightly be construed as my actually calling him those things despite my use of the word almost? I mean honestly that is what you meant right?
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Enlil
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: wolf8312] 1
#27087036 - 12/13/20 09:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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What is your agenda here, though? You aren't qualified to render any probative opinion. The guy in the video has submitted his stuff, and the NIH hasn't found it to be all that compelling. At this point, it's a non-issue. The shit isn't proven to work as of yet. 
This isn't a medical forum. This is politics. This thread needs to be focused on the political aspects of it, and if it doesn't, it doesn't belong here. We're not going to discuss the science or pharmacology of the drug here.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: feevers]
#27087039 - 12/13/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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feevers said: Do you have a link to the study. I checked the usual databases and couldn't find that one.
It seems to be covered here.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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falcon



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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: feevers] 1
#27087047 - 12/13/20 09:51 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If Kory actually said this to AP news,
Quote:
From the following AP article:
Kory told the AP that he stands by the comments he made at the hearing, saying that he was not trying to promote the drug but the data around it.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9768999400
I find Kory to be blind to the meaning of what he himself says to be taken seriously as a scientist. When I watched his interview I thought he was selling the treatment as much as presenting the data, especially at that part at the end when he railed against poor outcomes of minorities and the need for ivermectin.
The white lab jacket was a hoot of a prop.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: Enlil]
#27087059 - 12/13/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The NIH doesn't recommend the use of Ivermectin. There's no real story for the media to tell.
Watch the OP video from 4:27 - 5:00 where that report is discussed.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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I did
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: Enlil] 1
#27087078 - 12/13/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great. Then you realize your post is a bit dated, as HamHead mentioned.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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wolf8312
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: Enlil] 1
#27087084 - 12/13/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: What is your agenda here, though? You aren't qualified to render any probative opinion. The guy in the video has submitted his stuff, and the NIH hasn't found it to be all that compelling. At this point, it's a non-issue. The shit isn't proven to work as of yet. 
This isn't a medical forum. This is politics. This thread needs to be focused on the political aspects of it, and if it doesn't, it doesn't belong here. We're not going to discuss the science or pharmacology of the drug here.
Which forum do you propose to move it to? Not the conspiracy forum? 
As to my 'agenda' is it really so hard to believe that I may just actually care and worry about the direction this world is headed?
I worry.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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HamHead
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Great. Then you realize your post is a bit dated, as HamHead mentioned.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Enlil
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Great. Then you realize your post is a bit dated, as HamHead mentioned.
No, my post is based on the most updated information from the NIH. That's only a few months old, and no one has posted any newer information from the NIH about it.
Do you have newer information from the NIH?
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Enlil
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: wolf8312]
#27087123 - 12/13/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said:
Which forum do you propose to move it to? Not the conspiracy forum? 
As to my 'agenda' is it really so hard to believe that I may just actually care and worry about the direction this world is headed?
I worry.
Me too, but no one here is qualified to render an expert opinion about the claims of Dr. Kory. That renders any opinions that any of us have about the drug nothing more than pure speculation. If you want to discuss the political forces at play that perhaps make the NIH more or less responsive to newly proposed treatments, that's fine. That's what this place is for. I won't, however, let this thread become another of Hamhead's playgrounds where he engages in armchair medicine and advocates for a drug that isn't proven yet.
That's my concern.
On second thought, maybe this belongs in "drug policy reform" since it's clearly a thread about drug policy.
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HamHead
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: Enlil]
#27087125 - 12/13/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Great. Then you realize your post is a bit dated, as HamHead mentioned.
No, my post is based on the most updated information from the NIH. That's only a few months old, and no one has posted any newer information from the NIH about it.
Do you have newer information from the NIH?
Are there any other credible sources you would accept outside NIH?
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Enlil
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review (moved) [Re: wolf8312]
#27087126 - 12/13/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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This thread was moved from Political Discussion.
Reason: Fits here.
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HamHead
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: HamHead]
#27087135 - 12/13/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Great. Then you realize your post is a bit dated, as HamHead mentioned.
No, my post is based on the most updated information from the NIH. That's only a few months old, and no one has posted any newer information from the NIH about it.
Do you have newer information from the NIH?
Are there any other credible sources you would accept outside NIH?
Guess all these control measures are causing people to expand outside their normal thread viewing habbits.
I got some more to see if any other sources are accepted.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Enlil
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: HamHead]
#27087137 - 12/13/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Great. Then you realize your post is a bit dated, as HamHead mentioned.
No, my post is based on the most updated information from the NIH. That's only a few months old, and no one has posted any newer information from the NIH about it.
Do you have newer information from the NIH?
Are there any other credible sources you would accept outside NIH?
Sources for what? The effectiveness of the drug is not going to be debated in this thread. If you have sources that other credible health organizations have approved it for use, that might be relevant to the issue of whether the NIH is dragging its feet, but I'm not sure where you think you're going with these other "credible sources."
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HamHead
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: Enlil]
#27087158 - 12/13/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I just find it odd how information is accepted from one source and not another.
So, I am simply asking, are there any other credible sources that we here can refer to in these discussions?
Example. What if a different county does its own trials and their health institute find a drug to be effective?
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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koods
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: HamHead]
#27087175 - 12/13/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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You really find that odd?
You’ve been wrong about nearly everything for eight months. Why should anyone trust your judgement or your sources of information?
--------------------
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HamHead
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: koods]
#27087179 - 12/13/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: You really find that odd?
You’ve been wrong about nearly everything for eight months. Why should anyone trust your judgement or your sources of information?
Yeah, it's odd. When information is only accepted from a single source. Duh?
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Enlil
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: HamHead]
#27087214 - 12/13/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said: I just find it odd how information is accepted from one source and not another.
So, I am simply asking, are there any other credible sources that we here can refer to in these discussions?
Example. What if a different county does its own trials and their health institute find a drug to be effective?
Again, we're not going to be arguing whether or not any particular drug is effective. You can certainly use another nation's approval of a drug to argue that the U.S. should approve a drug.
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wolf8312
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: Enlil] 1
#27089899 - 12/15/20 05:48 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here's another video with a different (British) doctor exploring this subject who says there is enough accumulated evidence around the world now to the point where governments need to be looking at this seriously.
I can say with certainty that this man is not a charlatan or (somehow) trying to cheat people.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: wolf8312]
#27089960 - 12/15/20 07:03 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here's a newer article explaining why the AP did a bad job of covering this, and it explains why:
Fact Checking the Fact Checkers: The Case of Ivermectin for Publicly-Subsidized Research
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Quote:
CLAIM: The antiparasitic drug ivermectin ‘has a miraculous effectiveness that obliterates’ the transmission of COVID-19 and will prevent people from getting sick—-AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. There’s no evidence ivermectin has been proven a safe or effective treatment against COVID-19.” The claim is about ivermectin as a prophylactic to prevent getting COVID-19 illness, but the assessment’s language states that it is not an effective “treatment against COVID-19.” Since prophylactic prevention is for the well, and treatment is for the sick, confusing these medical uses appears to be sloppy journalism or worse.
These are not accurate definitions. Treatment isn’t only for the sick. Also, this is an extremely petty argument considering these people were actually calling the drug a miracle.
--------------------
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Byrain

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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: koods]
#27461125 - 09/08/21 11:28 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:these people were actually calling the drug a miracle.
I realize this is an old thread, but its worth pointing out that ivermectin helping people is well documented. What is not fully well understood yet is how much it specifically helps against covid19 or not.
From 2011:
Ivermectin, ‘Wonder drug’ from Japan: the human use perspective https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/
Abstract:
Quote:
Discovered in the late-1970s, the pioneering drug ivermectin, a dihydro derivative of avermectin—originating solely from a single microorganism isolated at the Kitasato Intitute, Tokyo, Japan from Japanese soil—has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world. Originally introduced as a veterinary drug, it kills a wide range of internal and external parasites in commercial livestock and companion animals. It was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found. This paper looks in depth at the events surrounding ivermectin’s passage from being a huge success in Animal Health into its widespread use in humans, a development which has led many to describe it as a “wonder” drug.
Note that none of the African Programme for Onchocerciasis Control (APOC) countries had major outbreaks while only some of the non-APOC countries did. Maybe there is another explanation for this correlation?
COVID-19: The Ivermectin African Enigma https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33795896/
This still seems true today based on the data recorded here.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Also on a side note this is interesting, although I am not sure if it will go anywhere?
Indian Bar Association sues WHO scientist over Ivermectin https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indian-bar-association-sues-who-scientist-over-ivermectin/article_f90599f8-c7be-11eb-a8dc-0b3cbb3b4dfa.html https://indianbarassociation.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/IBA-PRESS-RELEASE-MAY-26-2021.pdf
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: Byrain]
#27461155 - 09/09/21 12:46 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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APOC shut down six years ago.
Why haven’t there been as many cases in Africa? Are there really no other explanations aside from ivermectin?
Six months ago we were told that ivermectin was keeping covid at bay in India and Indonesia. But then covid exploded in those countries. India is estimated to have nearly four million deaths based on mortality data.
It’s pretty clear how that modern countries have fared far worse than the most undeveloped countries. Of course the modern countries are better at counting cases and deaths and that probably accounts for a significant amount of the disparity. But, mostly it’s the way the virus weaponizes modern indoor spaces. Recycled ventilation, fairly stagnant airflow, no exchange with outside air. Places without widespread ac and heating have structures that are often open to the outside. People are not congregating in places where the virus can linger in the air. People in poor countries are essentially spending a lot more time in open air, outdoor like situations
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: COVID-19 hearing/Professor asks for review [Re: koods]
#27461523 - 09/09/21 09:26 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: APOC shut down six years ago.
I'm having a hard time finding current data on how much ivermectin is still used in these countries, onchocerciasis (river blindness) is a parasite transmitted by black flies in the genus Simulium. I presume just because the study has stopped it doesn't mean the flies and parasites are no longer a problem. Perhaps they still take it regularly to prevent the disease with the known results from the APOC study?
Quote:
koods said:Why haven’t there been as many cases in Africa? Are there really no other explanations aside from ivermectin?
Six months ago we were told that ivermectin was keeping covid at bay in India and Indonesia. But then covid exploded in those countries. India is estimated to have nearly four million deaths based on mortality data.
That is what I want to know. There are promising numbers from both South America and parts of India and according to the Indian Bar Association there are places in India that did not use ivermectin and have had much larger outbreaks.
The problem I am seeing is instead of real data showing why it doesn't work we get fear mongering propaganda on the level of DARE. Not to mention the opportunistic politicians willing to use this crisis to advance their own agendas which have significantly exacerbated already existing economic and social decline in some places such as NYC or various Californian cities.
I would also not underestimate the financial incentive for large pharmaceutical companies that are highly invested in selling as much vaccine as possible. How much did you trust these companies before covid19? It would really sell confidence if they were wiling to drop the patents and release their private research, if the goal is to save as many humans as possible that should be not be an issue.
Quote:
koods said:It’s pretty clear how that modern countries have fared far worse than the most undeveloped countries. Of course the modern countries are better at counting cases and deaths and that probably accounts for a significant amount of the disparity. But, mostly it’s the way the virus weaponizes modern indoor spaces. Recycled ventilation, fairly stagnant airflow, no exchange with outside air. Places without widespread ac and heating have structures that are often open to the outside. People are not congregating in places where the virus can linger in the air. People in poor countries are essentially spending a lot more time in open air, outdoor like situations
Perhaps that is part of it, but that doesn't fully explain Nigeria the most populous African country (pop. 212,178,992) which reported 2,884,034 tests and only 2,578 deaths. Are there massive die offs of Nigerians that are not being reported?
Then there is South Africa (pop. 60,194,648) with 16,878,061 total tests and 84,152 deaths. They have had significantly more testing and a smaller population which could explain more reported cases, but are they also just that much better at reporting deaths?
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