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Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineChewyy
Stranger

Registered: 12/11/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Problem with Garin Bags?
    #27084523 - 12/11/20 06:32 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Hello everyone! First Post here been growing mono tubs for 5 months now no problem until about a month ago I started to lose a lot of bags.

Bags dont take myc right away takes longer than usual. Typically see growth in 3 days from LI, My dishes are strong lots of knotting. I have 4 different species all failed now. Agar Pcs, Grain to Grain, & LI doesn't matter the inoculation process I use.

Process; 5 Quarts each bag: Unicorn bags XSL-T
24 hr soak (Hard Wheat Kernels)
25 min Boil-Simmer
30 Min Drying table (Paper towel tested dry)
I've tried adding verm and cooking longer at this stage
2 Hrs PC
Open in front of flow cabinet
Inoculation ( Agar Pcs 1 dish per bag, Garin to Grain 1 cup, & LI 15-30ml  )
Re-seal with extra air inside corner to corner style (not refolding gusset)
Note* 5 mm sealing band so its a good seal
Pressure check (push down on bag)
Shake & Then put on shelf spread out
Filtered Air in room bags are 0.2 micron
Tried 22c and 25c temp in room still no luck
Positive pressure room 

Ive lost now 100s of bags No signs of visible contam.
Bags condensate then get too wet then after they just keep sweating

Need advice!
Might switch to 5.0 micron bags
Personally I think the C0 is getting stuck in the bag not enough air exchange for grain?

Let me know your thoughts

Cheers Chewyy


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OfflineJbfrustraited
Stranger

Registered: 11/17/20
Posts: 20
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Problem with Garin Bags? [Re: Chewyy]
    #27084970 - 12/12/20 02:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Bags can be a bitch. So it looks like you're  inoculating with Agar wedges in front of your flow Hood. Have you considered using a liquid culture, that way you don't have to inoculate in front of the flow Hood.You can make your own injection ports in the bags by using high temperature gasket sealant or high temperature weather stripping but you just stick to the bag before sterilizing I also cover the weather stripping with micropore tape. I've noticed that on a larger bags 5 quarts and such that I need to sterilize a lot longer because it is a lot of grain. Your tek looks pretty straightforward. Consider your work area it's down as much as you can. Your house may have a bad mold problem I'm speaking from experience LOL) buying HEPA filters replace them around your house that's what I do and I LOVE ME A POSITIVE PRESSURE ROOM! I have a 800 CFM laboratory grade flow hood which I use to pressurize my clean room and do my sterile work. In the past I've gone so far as to order two 5 x 10 grow tents which I zipped together one side has to clean room I unzip the door with positive pressure from the flow Hood and just walk into a fruiting room. Positive airflow always keeps the room Queen when I enter it the wind just blows when I enter the room what helps keep the nasty contams out of my lab.
After making the liquid culture test it out on agar before inoculating your grain to make sure it is not contaminated. Maybe switching to 5 Micron would work to also consider your supplier who are you getting your grain from. Try a new supplier. Sometimes you get a supplier that has a bad mold problem.


Edited by Jbfrustraited (12/12/20 02:47 AM)


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InvisibleBuddaking
Genetics
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Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 1,775
Loc: No Mans Land
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Problem with Garin Bags? [Re: Jbfrustraited]
    #27087143 - 12/13/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I run steam sterilized unicorn 3T bags with 5.5 full qts grain with little if any losses.

Wheat was kicking my backside too.

I switched to a 2 part oats 1 part milo by weight.
24 hr soak initial hot water @ room temp.
Drain 30 min or so & load wet.

Since switching I have zero losses attributed to moisture content & sterizalition of grain. It is simply perfect every time.


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  AMU Q & A


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OfflineChewyy
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Registered: 12/11/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Problem with Garin Bags? [Re: Jbfrustraited]
    #27259422 - 03/18/21 07:13 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for your response! Larger micron bags kept the bags dry longer but end result still the same :frown: The house is brand new plastic walls sealed concrete floors. Ive tried cooling it longer/ leaving it in the PCs longer over night and into the next day. Im back to 60% success. As for LC/LI Ive used LI, I PC the whole blender with water add 3-4 dishes of agar. Dump about 15Ml in. I actually have more successful bag when I do LI. But ya im narrowing it down to supplier. Im gunna try to switch to oats and milo see what happens. Ive cooked all my wheat berries good riddens!!!!


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OfflineChewyy
Stranger

Registered: 12/11/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Problem with Garin Bags? [Re: Buddaking]
    #27259431 - 03/18/21 07:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Im gonna give it a go! I have nothing to lose at this point. So with oats and milo you just soak and drain? No shimmer or Boil, I was boiling my grain for 25 min then spreading out on clean drying tables I made. You just let them drip dry "ish" then bag wet but what about the excess water?


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InvisiblezMan
zMan


Registered: 09/08/12
Posts: 2,191
Re: Problem with Garin Bags? [Re: Chewyy]
    #27259612 - 03/18/21 09:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I did my bags for 90 minutes and almost all contammed with cover wheat. Next I did 3 hours at 15 PSI and lost 2 of 7. Last I went to 17-20 PSI and haven't lost any in the last 2 runs. Not sure if that's your issue but it could be. Some grain is more stubborn than other.

It's odd you would lose 40% still though. Maybe try keeping a control bag or 2 without opening it after PC and see how long before it goes bad.

You seem to have your process down fairly well so I'm assuming you're venting for 10+ mins and all that?


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OfflinePBJ710
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/05/19
Posts: 2,623
Last seen: 18 days, 13 hours
Re: Problem with Garin Bags? [Re: zMan]
    #27259672 - 03/18/21 10:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

2 hours may not be enough for bags that big - I PC oats for 2.5 hours @ 22psi in 4lb bags.

Are you piling/storing your bags next to each other?  Sometimes heat can build up from the breakdown of grain going on and cause problems if there isn't a little breathing room.

Your drying process also seems kind of short.  I have to dry my oats on a screen table for 2 hours under a fan to avoid them being overly wet in bags.


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