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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC)
    #27076238 - 12/07/20 12:04 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Just as the title says, I mixed up some BRF cakes and prepped my work space to inoculate them and noticed all 5 of my jars cracked on the bottom! I was following the standard 2:1:1 recipe. Wiped off the top 1/2" of the jar, topped off with dry verm, put my lids on (with 2 GE holes) rubber side up w foil over the lids.

I put 4 rings on the bottom of my pot with a layer of foil on top of the rings, followed by 3 more rings and another layer of foil. I filled with water to just below the second layer of foil and stacked my 5 jars in there.

Once the boil started I noticed a some water was on top of the foil and in contact with the bottom 4 jars (but not the 5th jar on the very top). As soon as I noticed it boiling I reduced the heat to maintain a simmer. I simmered/steamed for 150 minutes.

The water never ran out and I kept the jars in the pot for 24 hours to cool naturally. No cold/cool water was ever added to the pot causing a thermal shock.

As aggravating as it is to lose all this time, ingredients and jars I just want to figure out what I did wrong. The only things that come to mind would be:

1) My BRF recipe was slightly under field capacity (slightly dry)
2) I tightened the lids too much
3) My GE holes were too small
4) The foil on the tops was too tight

I'm not sure if any or all of these would cause a malfunction so any and all advice is appreciated. I'm going to try again tomorrow so hopefully I can figure out what I did wrong. Cheers, mates!


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Bigfoots LAGM21


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OfflineHaywire
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27076499 - 12/07/20 04:39 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

which jars did you use?


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Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto


My grows :mushroom2: Outdoor patches


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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: Haywire]
    #27076522 - 12/07/20 05:09 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

I used the recommended 1/2 pint wide mouth mason jars


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OfflineHaywire
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27076541 - 12/07/20 06:15 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

strange, I've only had jars break after sterilizing them like 50 times.
sometimes when they go in too cold or cool down to quick, but that's not the case.
or they could have weaknesses in the glass, but all 5 of them is almost impossible.

maybe someone else can help you, because I unfortunately can't...


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Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto


My grows :mushroom2: Outdoor patches


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: Haywire]
    #27076765 - 12/07/20 10:57 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Yea this is really odd. For all 5 to break i can only think of extreme temp changes, out right dropping them, or opening valve on a pressurized pc. Maybe this is an extremely rare defect? or cheap mason jars?


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Invisiblearthur_mcpipes
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: LtLurker]
    #27076795 - 12/07/20 11:20 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

I've had a single mason jar crack on my third & a second mason jar crack on my forth batch of sterilization.  I can't tell you why... but it's happened to me too.  I PC in my instapot for 90 mins.. cool down and PC an additional 90 mins after.  Luckily jars are fairly cheap.


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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: arthur_mcpipes]
    #27076840 - 12/07/20 11:54 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Thanks for all the insight guys! I'm just glad there wasn't something glaringly obvious that I did to cause this to happen. These are 'Ball' brand jars that came from Wal-Mart. Now that I think about it though, I bought two cases of these jars (the last two they had). One was still wrapped in plastic and the case these came from wasn't wrapped. I'm wondering if since they were unwrapped they were rattled around a bit more than normal causing micro-fractures. It's a bit of a stretch but seems plausible.

I will try my next batch today after work from the properly sealed case and see if that makes a difference. If not I'll just move straight to grain a little early. Cheers, mates!

Also, I just bought a PC yesterday and would like to test it out on the next batch of cakes. Does 60 minutes at 15psi sound right?


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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27081334 - 12/10/20 12:57 AM (2 months, 15 days ago)

Well I gave everything another try yesterday and today. Santa let me open my PC early yesterday so I emptied the last bit of a rum bottle, mixed up some agar in it, sterilized and poured some plates. Today I mixed up some more BRF cakes and filled 12 jars from a NEW case today (wrapped in plastic, this time). Same procedure as last time. Pop em in the PC, 60 minutes at 15 psi making sure to vent for 10 minutes. 5 jars survived...what the FUCK am I doing wrong??

Anyway, now that I have 7 cracked jars I do have to ask..they seem structurally intact but there are visible cracks along the bottom. Could I use these since they're already mixed and sterilized? I guess there's no harm in trying since they're getting trashed no matter what. Cheers, mates!

Also, a little off topic but today I inoculated my cakes for the first time but I'm worried I used WAY too little MS solution. I did 5 jars (2 holes in the lid, instead of 4 because for some reason...?) and 10 plates with about 2 CC's. I only did a drop or two per hole. Are these doomed? On the 7 that cracked should I add more?


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Bigfoots LAGM21


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OfflineHaywire
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27081508 - 12/10/20 05:18 AM (2 months, 15 days ago)

that is weird. I can't help with the procedure becaue I have never experienced this.
I wouldn't use the broken jars.
I think in light of contamination, they should be fine but broken jars are dangerous...

that's way too little spore solution. who are you, Scrooge Mcduck?
look up the general practice with inoculation because I'm not a PF tek expert.
It's going to grow super slow I think but could still work.
a drop is ok for plates though.


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Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto


My grows :mushroom2: Outdoor patches


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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: Haywire]
    #27081747 - 12/10/20 10:24 AM (2 months, 14 days ago)

2 innoc holes is fine, they can colonize with just one. The trade off is slightly longer colonization time but it's really not a big deal. A general rule of thumb is the less mss solution you inject, the better and less likely it will contam out from ride along contams.


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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: LtLurker]
    #27081774 - 12/10/20 10:41 AM (2 months, 14 days ago)

All I can think of is are they fake jars? Made in a country that rhymes with vagina? Or your really unlucky. Thats proper shit. Awesome that you got a pressure cooker.


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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: Dr.Sparkle]
    #27081981 - 12/10/20 01:18 PM (2 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Haywire said:
that is weird. I can't help with the procedure becaue I have never experienced this.
I wouldn't use the broken jars.
I think in light of contamination, they should be fine but broken jars are dangerous...

that's way too little spore solution. who are you, Scrooge Mcduck?
look up the general practice with inoculation because I'm not a PF tek expert.
It's going to grow super slow I think but could still work.
a drop is ok for plates though.




I'm more concerned with the shards of glass than I am contamination so I'll likely toss em. I honestly had no idea I was using so little MS solution. This was my first time using a syringe in a new SAB and I was so focused not fucking everything up (which I'm sure I did lol) that I wasn't thinking/paying attention. Plus, there was a label on the syringe so I couldn't see the plunger or the markings. All the syringes were over-filled by about 1.5 CCs though so I used more like 3 CCs. Thanks for the reply, cheers!

Quote:

LtLurker said:
2 innoc holes is fine, they can colonize with just one. The trade off is slightly longer colonization time but it's really not a big deal. A general rule of thumb is the less mss solution you inject, the better and less likely it will contam out from ride along contams.




I've read the same thing regarding a few drops per hole and that even 1 hole will work. But, I've read the exact opposite saying that you should use 1/4-1/2 CC per hole. Oh well, I like your theory so I'ma roll with it and hope for the best. Slow colonization is fine with me as long as it's clean. Cheers, mate!

Quote:

Dr.Sparkle said:
All I can think of is are they fake jars? Made in a country that rhymes with vagina? Or your really unlucky. Thats proper shit. Awesome that you got a pressure cooker.




I'm not sure what to think either. I am pretty unlucky but I think this is a case (or two, rather) of shitty Vagina jars even though they are Ball brand. Just a further reminder of why I hate shopping at WalMart. Once I get some clean agar to work with I'll be moving on to grain so I can only hope the Quart jars hold up better. Cheers, mate!


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27082869 - 12/10/20 09:24 PM (2 months, 14 days ago)

I think it's your process that's breaking them by allowing them to either heat unevenly or to cool too uneven/rapidly.  How about some pics of lids from the broken jars?  Next time I would leave them in the water so they cool at the same rate and much more evenly.

You need to get a pressure cooker before you can use grains anyhow, so why not get it now?

1) The moisture difference is not the cause.
2) If they had some GE, it wouldn't matter
3) If they had some GE, it wouldn't matter
4) Not likely unless you used industrial machinery to wrap it


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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: PBJ710]
    #27082940 - 12/10/20 10:16 PM (2 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
I think it's your process that's breaking them by allowing them to either heat unevenly or to cool too uneven/rapidly.  How about some pics of lids from the broken jars?  Next time I would leave them in the water so they cool at the same rate and much more evenly.

You need to get a pressure cooker before you can use grains anyhow, so why not get it now?

1) The moisture difference is not the cause.
2) If they had some GE, it wouldn't matter
3) If they had some GE, it wouldn't matter
4) Not likely unless you used industrial machinery to wrap it




In the OP I used a standard kitchen pot to sanitize the original 5 jars that broke. Sanitized for 150 minute and allowed them to cool naturally, at their own pace for 24 hours. There wasn't any water added so there wasn't any thermal shock or rapid cooling/heating.

7 posts later I give an update where I use a PC to do 12 jars filled and prepped the same way and 7 of those 12 jars malfunctioned. I could hear the jars cracking while sterilizing at temp/pressure (not on the way up) and as soon as I turned off the burner (still at temp/pressure) so it seems unlikely that it was rapid/uneven heating OR cooling.

If I can figure out how to reformat a picture I'll post a couple of the jars and lids a little later hoping that could shed some light on the situation. Cheers


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Bigfoots LAGM21


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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27083046 - 12/10/20 11:12 PM (2 months, 14 days ago)

Attached (hopefully) are pictures of the lid with 2, 7/64" GE holes, the crack on one of the jars from the side and the bottom. Also, I decided to just say fuck it and inoculate the 7 broken jars. I figured they were going to get trashed anyway may as well see if I can't get something out of them. Cheers, mates!







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Bigfoots LAGM21


Edited by bigfootscreepyuncl (12/10/20 11:20 PM)


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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27083346 - 12/11/20 03:32 AM (2 months, 14 days ago)

you put your pot on stove without water???


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Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto


My grows :mushroom2: Outdoor patches


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Invisiblearthur_mcpipes
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: Haywire]
    #27083517 - 12/11/20 08:59 AM (2 months, 13 days ago)

My two jars are exactly the same bigfoot.  I'm assuming it's from the water at the bottom of our PCs... :confused:


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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Broken BRF jars after 'sterilizing' (No PC) [Re: arthur_mcpipes]
    #27083624 - 12/11/20 10:53 AM (2 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Haywire said:
you put your pot on stove without water???




I'm a noob, not a moron lol. I should have said 'no additional water was added to keep pot from running dry'. I'm suspecting cheap/mishandled glassware at this point. After this batch of cakes I'm moving to grain. Thanks for all the help, cheers!

Quote:

arthur_mcpipes said:
My two jars are exactly the same bigfoot.  I'm assuming it's from the water at the bottom of our PCs... :confused:




Either that or I really am so unlucky I bought two defective cases of glass. Or, more likely, the quality is starting to slip because demand is going up. Strangely enough 4 of the 5 that survived this time were on the bottom of the PC..Who knows! Thanks for taking the time to help me figure this out. I'll be moving to grain as soon as I get some clean agar anyway. Cheers, mate!


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