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CascadeTC
Angler


Registered: 10/29/20
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Loc: WA
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Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? *DELETED*
#27082642 - 12/10/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by CascadeTC
Reason for deletion: Asked to delete posts by roommate until able to interact via vpn.
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polaritymind
relaxed attention


Registered: 10/10/16
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: CascadeTC]
#27082663 - 12/10/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looks good, even though its almost like they look a bit dry. No visual change from consolidation. Just put them to fruit and maybe dunk before or mist intensely to rehydrate
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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kanemush
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: polaritymind]
#27082664 - 12/10/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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they look good to me
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1kldude
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: kanemush]
#27082682 - 12/10/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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The longer they are left to consolidate they start pinning. Ive left moldy jars alone to experiment a little and looked at it a week or two later and there is a fat mushroom pushed up against the side.
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CascadeTC
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: 1kldude]
#27082784 - 12/10/20 06:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh excellent, thank you for taking a look!
The cakes are on day 2 in the chamber. Misted them several times yesterday. Misted twice and fanned several times today. I've been fine misting pretty heavily but it hasn't been enough to fully saturate the outer verm layer.
As they look now, after the last mist about 4 hours ago.
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bigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: CascadeTC]
#27082795 - 12/10/20 06:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looks good, mate! I just inoculated my first jars last night, hope they turn out like yours! How easy are they to get out of the jar? I'm asking because I had 7 jars crack for some reason during the sterilization process and I can't decide whether or not to use them since they're already made up. Cheers, mate I'm sure those are going to fruit just fine for you. Keep us posted!
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I 5318008 NOT a virgin!
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CascadeTC
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
#27082814 - 12/10/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I appreciate that. The cakes released pretty easy. They had enough grip to stay put when dumping out the dry verm layer, but released with a good smack on the bottom of the glass.
This is pretty exciting. I had 4 jars get contaminated last week (different variety that consolidated aggressively) and was worried it might spread. So this is a welcome confidence boost.
Fingers crossed we both have reason to celebrate soon.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: CascadeTC]
#27083611 - 12/11/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CascadeTC said: Misted them several times yesterday. Misted twice and fanned several times today. I've been fine misting pretty heavily but it hasn't been enough to fully saturate the outer verm layer.
Cake surface should never be 'fully' nor any kind of 'saturated'. The micro climate on the surfaces should 'glitter' being covered in these tiny, almost microscopic water droplets that don't break their own surface tension and thus will not impregnate the colony surface even if left standing on top of myc for weeks. Looks kind of like this: Pic1, how my cakes look after a couple of days in the FC before I have had the chance to mist for the first time.

This is how it looks shortly after I finish misting for the very first time and this specific micro climate is created by spraying a fine mist from ~1m above the cakes. Achieve this look, maintain it and very shortly after you'll see an abundance of fruit formation.

This is what right kind of surface conditions always result in, dense and even pinsets on a single cake and across all the substrates. Basically every pin that's growing will eventually develop into full maturity.
 
But here is the twist. Water droplets don't actually form on top of wet materials that have a great ability to retain/absorb water (hydrated verm or hydrated coir) whatever amount of water that lands on wet coir or wet verm will undoubtedly impregnate it upon contact, that's just basic physics. Healthy myc on the cakes surface tho has a very different ability to repel water droplets instead, and myc can have its surface entirely covered by water droplets even for weeks at a time without ever getting soaked by the water. That's why you wont see this specific micro climate on the wet coir that is the outer layer, instead water droplets will only form o the healthy and (selectively) hydrophobic parts of the colony surface. Aight hope that helps
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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CascadeTC
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: Mateja]
#27084027 - 12/11/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is extremely helpful! Thank you for walking me through your process.
I was heavy handed with the dry verm when rolling the cakes after the soak. For the mist to land directly on the myc it would have to encapsulate a lot of verm, and I haven't seen much change after 2.5 days in the FC. They basically look the same as the pics I posted yesterday.
Should I remove some of the verm layer to expose the myc? Or perhaps mist conservatively instead of trying to wet the verm layer?
Also, I noticed you said that you don't mist on the first day. If that's ideal, I definitely did the first day wrong.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: CascadeTC]
#27084211 - 12/11/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think thickness of the verm layer is an issue, I'd say the overall micro climate on and around the verm will be crucial. Obviously the verm layer should be moist but not drenched for myc to easily be able to jump off onto it. If we imagine how tiny and delicate the microscopic thread like structure of myc really is when isolated down to the small machinery, on the most outer parts of the colony where the newest/youngest myc is generated the structure isn't nearly as robust as it becomes days later after many layers have been added to reinforce the myc until the texture/form has 'matured' into a relatively tough/resiliant fungal mass that when healthy and in its environment possesses key physical/mechanical properties that enable it to function and grow properly.
One could definitely make the conclusion that microscopically thin organic creatures made out of ~99% water will probably not be able to grow effectively if at all below certain humidities. For example most types of common house molds are agile and grow aggressively compared to cube myc and molds can colonize substrates with very low water activity of 0.65(aw) (like dried fruits or old bread) these environments are so beyond inhospitable for bacteria and mushrooms that existence in these environments cant even be contemplated by most orgnisms. In fact 0.6(aw) is such low water activity that no organism in the world can sustain life there (dry pasta, crackers, honey) Cubensis myc on the other hand seems to demand water activities in their substrate of around 0.85(aw) or higher just function and grow properly so it should come as no surprise that if your cakes have been in fruiting conditions for weeks but seemingly without new myc colonizing parts of the verm layer then the issue is most likely too low humidities on/around the cake and to suddenly expect a change in this environment while you maintain the same fruiting regiment is a little too optimistic imo.
Zoom in on these pics and note how these cakes surfaces appear vibrant and alive compared to the looks of typical cakes rolled in verm and constantly sprayed with water. Whenever I see that healthy and fast tomentose growth devouring the surface then at least I know that conditions required for fruit formation are there as well. So regardless of substrate type or casing/top/outer layer, you always want to notice at least some or partial colonization of the newly added layer of substrate that is interfering with the immediate 'environment' of the colony, this growth should be noticeable even after a few days, but if myc is not engaging actively with the newly added parts of its environment must reasonably appear to be the results of some conflict in that environment and is sufficiently far enough away from 'optimal' that the colony starts delaying or completely halting the fruiting process for weeks at a time and sometimes up to a month can pass with no signs and then suddenly when an opportunity of 'manageable' surface conditions presents itself for at least 48h then it becomes apparent how adaptable this organism in fact is cause fruits can start to form literally within days of full colonization when conditions are just right.
 
Ultimately I really don't know anything 100% for sure, but that doesn't mean that I'm speculating at all. I've been doing experiments and side by side grows for years not and especially concerning the dynamics of cakes fruiting and how different environments affect fruiting/colonizing substrates. Answering questions and posts forces me to question the process and as I'm 'explaining' certain things to you I'm also at the same time learning and refining my collected knowledge on this and the ability to pass these insights on to others without necessarily writing a foot long wall of text but practice makes perfect I guess
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (12/11/20 04:01 PM)
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CascadeTC
Angler


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Re: Do these cakes look fully colonized and consolidated? [Re: Mateja]
#27086085 - 12/12/20 04:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you may have just steered me back onto the right track. I cut back substantially on the amount of misting and already noticing a bit of myc activity.
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