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Forgotten Oak
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First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong?
#27082538 - 12/10/20 04:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey all, so on 9/28 I inoculated 24 PF Tek jars with MSS (6 jars each of 4 different Cubes). I eventually lost two jars to contam and a few that just never colonized. I assume I didn't squirt enough MSS solution out after sterilizing the needle between jars and just shot dead spores into those jars. Anyway, the jars slowly colonized through the BRF, and as of a few weeks ago about 1/2 of them were fully colonized and the rest were at various stages between 70%-100% colonized. They all seemed to have stalled at that point, and the jars that weren't fully colonized didn't seem to advance any more, but there with no sign of contam in any of them.
On 11/30, I finally decided to go ahead and shred my 4 successful jars of Mazatapec to coir exactly per the SFF Tek, because they were mostly almost all fully colonized and I knew watching them not do anything for a couple more weeks was just upping my chances of contamination. I shredded and mixed the four 1/2 pint BRF cakes with 1 quart of slightly below field capacity CC and topped off with 1 pint of coir as a pseudocasing per the tek. I disposed of any excess uncolonized BRF. There was no sign of contam anywhere throughout any of the cakes that I noticed. Then I misted the pseudocasing very heavily with a continuous spray mister and closed up the box.
Within 24 hours, the myc was blowing up! I mean it was tearing through that coir like there was no tomorrow. It was already breaching the top of the pseudo casing within 72 hours. The lid and sides of the box were heavily covered in beads of water, to the point I could barely see in. I did not open the lid since closing it on the day I spawned to bulk. Five days later, on 12/4, I went ahead and transferred the rest of the jars to shoeboxes, and they have also shown very promising growth with similar heavy condensation on the sides and lids of the boxes.
However, this morning (10 days post-spawn) while examining my first shoebox, I noticed several spots of yellowish mycellium on the surface. By now, pretty much the entire surface of the sub is totally covered with mycellium. In order to better see the yellowish spots and look for contam without opening the box (still latched since spawning), I thumped the lid and sides to knock some of the condensation off. There were several yellowish spots, but no obvious contam.
This afternoon, I went back down to look at it again, and I'll be damned if there aren't now several dark spots of what look like mold. As best as I can tell, they are mostly in the places where I was seeing myc piss this morning. Since I was certain I had contam and couldn't get a decent picture through the lid or sides for all the moisture (plus I had thought it was almost time to unlatch the lid anyway) I opened the lid and used a paper towel to carefully wipe all the moisture off the lid and sides and took the picture below. My thought was that possibly I had too much moisture in there, which was helping the mold. I also wonder if I screwed up badly knocking the condensation off the lid onto the sub this morning .
Here is the damage:

On a scale of 1 to fucked, how 10 am I? Is there anything that can be done to save the box at this point? Also, I am worried about the other boxes and whether or not they also have too much moisture in them. Here is a picture of the other boxes which I spawned on 12/4, should I open them and wipe out some of the condensation, or leave them sealed and cross my fingers?

Thanks for any advice you can offer!
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Vodka
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak]
#27082609 - 12/10/20 04:46 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not possible save it... Not safe for you and the others cakes. Very sorry bro.
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Forgotten Oak
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Vodka]
#27082764 - 12/10/20 05:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I appreciate the feedback! I wonder if it was too much moisture or what triggered it after 10 days with the lid closed and latched. I'm trying to figure out if there's anything I can do to improve my odds on the remaining boxes.
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DrunkUncle


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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak]
#27082794 - 12/10/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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From what I have studied, probably wasn’t clean spawn to begin with. Agar helps a lot to increase your odds, is cheap and will save you lots of time down the road!
-------------------- OEF Combat Medic & Purple Heart Recipient “If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.” ― Alan Watts Smartattack said: I was doing Tai chi while flying through space, took a shit in my shower, removed my face several times with my hands and that was all just the boring part before it really hit me.
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Forgotten Oak
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: DrunkUncle]
#27082856 - 12/10/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Could be, I didn't see any sign of any contam in the BRF cakes as I was shredding them, but I guess all it takes is one spore...
I pasteurized the coir with boiling water and kept it in an igloo cooler overnight before spawning. I just don't know.
I'm thinking that a couple of spores must have landed on the substrate surface while I was prepping the boxes, and they just took ten days to show themselves. If it was spores in the air when I spawned to bulk I'm probably screwed, because I spawned the other boxes in the same room 5 days later.
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Rise against
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak]
#27082879 - 12/10/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Burry it in your back yard or garden
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DrunkUncle


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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak]
#27082900 - 12/10/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Forgotten Oak said: Could be, I didn't see any sign of any contam in the BRF cakes as I was shredding them, but I guess all it takes is one spore...
I pasteurized the coir with boiling water and kept it in an igloo cooler overnight before spawning. I just don't know.
I'm thinking that a couple of spores must have landed on the substrate surface while I was prepping the boxes, and they just took ten days to show themselves. If it was spores in the air when I spawned to bulk I'm probably screwed, because I spawned the other boxes in the same room 5 days later.
Quote:
Forgotten Oak said: Could be, I didn't see any sign of any contam in the BRF cakes as I was shredding them, but I guess all it takes is one spore...
I pasteurized the coir with boiling water and kept it in an igloo cooler overnight before spawning. I just don't know.
I'm thinking that a couple of spores must have landed on the substrate surface while I was prepping the boxes, and they just took ten days to show themselves. If it was spores in the air when I spawned to bulk I'm probably screwed, because I spawned the other boxes in the same room 5 days later.


Both of these pictures were from grain that had been ripped through what I thought was clean mycelium. It even colonized the mono pretty damn quick, little did I realize that it was actually pretty bacterial. It queefed out a few mushroom in the end but not many, and the second tub completely stalled out. Not sure how long you've been doing it, but I haven't that long and I was fooled this go around. Even on agar it can be hard to tell sometimes, but definitely gives you a leg up in seeing anything that can potentially be riding along
-------------------- OEF Combat Medic & Purple Heart Recipient “If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.” ― Alan Watts Smartattack said: I was doing Tai chi while flying through space, took a shit in my shower, removed my face several times with my hands and that was all just the boring part before it really hit me.
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Ballzagna
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak]
#27082992 - 12/10/20 08:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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It doesn't look that bad to me. How are the surface conditions? the yellowing could be drying mycelium since you did under capacity coir it might be a bit thirsty. I usually advise against misting but if there's no beads of water holding on the surface of the mycelium give it a mist and keep an eye on it.
Take a closer picture of the suspect areas, because really it doesn't look bad at all. Certainly better than my first shoebox did lol and I still got a little bit of mushrooms out of it.
as for the others you can try cracking the lid a little but honestly I find it better to just leave shit alone. I use the non-latching shoeboxes with the white lids, I think those have better FAE by design so maybe switch to those if you think it's an issue. They're also cheaper than the latching ones.
-------------------- No one likes a naysayer It's probably fine. Even if it's not fine, it'll eventually be fine. So it's fine. PE Adventure
Photosynthesis: A Morning Ritual Ballzagna's Tek Compendium and Notes for Noobs 
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Forgotten Oak
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Ballzagna]
#27083133 - 12/10/20 10:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DrunkUncle said:
Both of these pictures were from grain that had been ripped through what I thought was clean mycelium. It even colonized the mono pretty damn quick, little did I realize that it was actually pretty bacterial. It queefed out a few mushroom in the end but not many, and the second tub completely stalled out. Not sure how long you've been doing it, but I haven't that long and I was fooled this go around. Even on agar it can be hard to tell sometimes, but definitely gives you a leg up in seeing anything that can potentially be riding along
Oh, this is my very first attempt ever. So I've got nothing to go on but about a year of lurking and reading here. I've definitely gotten on the agar program, and have some pastyplates ready to clone anything I get. I had some growing from MSS, but the PF cakes took so long that I let the agar plates dry out. I tossed them yesterday thinking I was in the homestretch with these tubs, then this pops up.
Quote:
Ballzagna said: It doesn't look that bad to me. How are the surface conditions? the yellowing could be drying mycelium since you did under capacity coir it might be a bit thirsty. I usually advise against misting but if there's no beads of water holding on the surface of the mycelium give it a mist and keep an eye on it.
Take a closer picture of the suspect areas, because really it doesn't look bad at all. Certainly better than my first shoebox did lol and I still got a little bit of mushrooms out of it.
as for the others you can try cracking the lid a little but honestly I find it better to just leave shit alone. I use the non-latching shoeboxes with the white lids, I think those have better FAE by design so maybe switch to those if you think it's an issue. They're also cheaper than the latching ones.
Surface condition seem good, too wet if anything. Like I said, there was so much condensation on the underside of the lid and all sides that I had to thump the shoebox to knock some of it off just to get a good look inside at the yellow myc. The tek calls for slightly under field capacity coir in the substrate, then you pseudocase with coir and mist it very heavily before sealing the lid. I think I went a little too heavy on the misting.
From what I've read, the yellow mycellium is usually an indicator that it's fighting off contamination (but can be a sign of dryness too), and I think that's what was happening. I just wonder if me knocking all the condensation down onto the mycellium hurt the fight.
I went and had another look, and it appears that since I wiped all the water off the lid and sides that the mycellium may actually be beating back those round dark spots (or maybe it's just wishful thinking). I'm not sure, but they seem smaller, lighter, and fainter than they were about six hours ago. I'm hoping the difference is more stark tomorrow. If it appears that the mycellium is winning the fight, I'm going to hold out a few more days. I'd hate to give up prematurely on a tub that's been 2 1/2 months in the making so far.
When I first decided to try this, I couldn't get my hands on a pressure cooker or mason jars to save my life - anywhere. I finally borrowed a six quart pressure cooker older than me (and I'm old) and found two cases of 1/2 pint narrow mouth jars at a Walmart market. But a couple of days ago I managed to buy a case of quart widemouth jars, and tomorrow, my new Presto 23qt canner arrives. I've got my pastyplates ready to go. So hopefully, things will go a little more smoothly in the future.
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DrunkUncle


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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak]
#27083144 - 12/10/20 10:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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After a second look on my PC and not mobile, I'd agree with Ballzanga and say it doesn't look bad,mine was definitely gnarlier looking haha. On my phone i thought the top was grey, but appears to just be exposed sub.
Mine got yellow like that from over misting, and where the water pooled I got that yellow color. You said it's only been ten days right? You could very well still pull something out of those. Last tubs I did I spawned sept 21 and had one single pin on the 2nd of Oct, the rest started coming in about 5-7 days later, i'd ride it out if you're this far
-------------------- OEF Combat Medic & Purple Heart Recipient “If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.” ― Alan Watts Smartattack said: I was doing Tai chi while flying through space, took a shit in my shower, removed my face several times with my hands and that was all just the boring part before it really hit me.
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Ballzagna
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak]
#27083167 - 12/10/20 10:38 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm familiar with the tek, I used to follow it but I ditched the top soak because it was just extra work imo when I can just make the coir normally and not worry about it.
Condensation on the lid/walls isn't a good indicator of surface conditions, it generally comes from the heat generated by the mycelium warming the air inside the box and the walls/lid are the same temp as the outside. You want beads of water on the surface of the mycelium itself. Also the droplets falling aren't going to harm anything, it happens periodically when I lift my lids to get a good look at the surface. It can stunt growth a little if it falls onto some fresh pins so try to avoid it but it's nbd.
You shouldn't bang on them to get the condensation to fall from the sides, it helps keep humidity up and it can pool a bit on the edges of your sub and bacteria can take hold there. I try to dab it up with a paper towel if it gets jostled and there's a lot, but most of the time its not a big deal. If you need to check on it, it's ok to just lift the lid. But do it carefully because water will drip and you should try to keep it from dripping onto the sub. Honestly I shake the lid off a little before putting it back so it doesn't drip a bunch
When you see yellowing from contamination it's usually from overhydrated subs with matted mycelium so it's a lot more apparent. The yellowing here looks like just the tips of the rhizomorphs which is what leads me to think it might be drying a little. It's hard to tell from the picture, but if the surface conditions are good then just leave it alone and it should be fine.
-------------------- No one likes a naysayer It's probably fine. Even if it's not fine, it'll eventually be fine. So it's fine. PE Adventure
Photosynthesis: A Morning Ritual Ballzagna's Tek Compendium and Notes for Noobs 
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Forgotten Oak
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: DrunkUncle]
#27083180 - 12/10/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DrunkUncle said:
Mine got yellow like that from over misting, and where the water pooled I got that yellow color. You said it's only been ten days right? You could very well still pull something out of those. Last tubs I did I spawned sept 21 and had one single pin on the 2nd of Oct, the rest started coming in about 5-7 days later, i'd ride it out if you're this far
I hadn't considered that the yellowing might have been from water pooling. I definitely think I went overboard with the misting before putting the top on, and I know there was so much humidity in there that droplets were gathering on the lid until they would occasionally drip onto the sub. I'll ease up on the misting next go round.
I do love the "set it and forget it" aspect of these SFF shoeboxes though. No messing with fanning, misting, adjusting FAE, etc. At least in theory - we'll see if I get anything out of it!
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Forgotten Oak
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Ballzagna]
#27083191 - 12/10/20 10:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ballzagna said:
You shouldn't bang on them to get the condensation to fall from the sides, it helps keep humidity up and it can pool a bit on the edges of your sub and bacteria can take hold there. I try to dab it up with a paper towel if it gets jostled and there's a lot, but most of the time its not a big deal. If you need to check on it, it's ok to just lift the lid. But do it carefully because water will drip and you should try to keep it from dripping onto the sub. Honestly I shake the lid off a little before putting it back so it doesn't drip a bunch
When you see yellowing from contamination it's usually from overhydrated subs with matted mycelium so it's a lot more apparent. The yellowing here looks like just the tips of the rhizomorphs which is what leads me to think it might be drying a little. It's hard to tell from the picture, but if the surface conditions are good then just leave it alone and it should be fine.
Hmm, interesting. When I knocked the condensation off and removed the lid earlier, so much fell that it was pooled all over the myc. Since I was worried the problem was too much water, I very gently laid a paper towel across the top and soaked up the big puddles. But there was still some water standing along the edges that I didn't mess with because I knew I was already messing with it too much. That water is still standing there along the edges.
Do you think I should use the edge of a paper towel to soak up that standing water along the edges, and then hit the whole surface with a light mist and put the lid back on? There is no moisture on the lid or sides since I wiped it all off earlier when I believed too much water was contributing to the contamination.
Now I'm worried I may have dried the surface up too much (except the edges where a little bead of water is standing).
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Ballzagna
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak] 1
#27083203 - 12/10/20 11:03 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah that's what I meant when I said I dab the water, I use the edge of the paper towel to siphon up the pools on the edges of the sub but only if they're significant, like bigger surface area than my fingernail. Laying the paper towel over the top def would have soaked up any good surface conditions you would have had lol.
At this point I'd say give it a LIGHT mist and then just leave it alone. Check on it in like 2 days to see if the surface conditions are good, if there's not beads of water give it another light mist but I'm assuming it'll be fine by then. LIGHT MIST.
Biggest problem people face on the first grow is over-tending. Read the red sentence in my sig. I have some good noob notes down there too if you wanna skim that thread
-------------------- No one likes a naysayer It's probably fine. Even if it's not fine, it'll eventually be fine. So it's fine. PE Adventure
Photosynthesis: A Morning Ritual Ballzagna's Tek Compendium and Notes for Noobs 
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DrunkUncle


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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Ballzagna]
#27083265 - 12/11/20 12:02 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ballzagna said:
Biggest problem people face on the first grow is over-tending. Read the red sentence in my sig. I have some good noob notes down there too if you wanna skim that thread
you said it homie, my biggest take away was do not over love them thangs haha
-------------------- OEF Combat Medic & Purple Heart Recipient “If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.” ― Alan Watts Smartattack said: I was doing Tai chi while flying through space, took a shit in my shower, removed my face several times with my hands and that was all just the boring part before it really hit me.
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Forgotten Oak
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Ballzagna] 1
#27083289 - 12/11/20 12:22 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ballzagna said: yeah that's what I meant when I said I dab the water, I use the edge of the paper towel to siphon up the pools on the edges of the sub but only if they're significant, like bigger surface area than my fingernail. Laying the paper towel over the top def would have soaked up any good surface conditions you would have had lol.
At this point I'd say give it a LIGHT mist and then just leave it alone. Check on it in like 2 days to see if the surface conditions are good, if there's not beads of water give it another light mist but I'm assuming it'll be fine by then. LIGHT MIST.
Biggest problem people face on the first grow is over-tending. Read the red sentence in my sig. I have some good noob notes down there too if you wanna skim that thread
Done. I used the edge of a paper towel to pull up the pooled water at the edges and hit the whole surface with a couple seconds of mist from a continuous mister sprayed across the tub, not down at it. There's now thousands of tiny little droplets dispersed evenly across the entire surface. I put the lid back on and that's where it's going to stay until it pins or the contamination takes over.
I took another picture, but it's such a pain in the ass getting the pics shrunk down enough to meet the 512k upload size limit but still have enough detail to even be worth uploading in the first place.
As far as messing with it goes, I haven't touched it at all until today, when I saw what I thought was contamination. I freaked out because I wanted to get it away from the other shoeboxes if it was. I've read enough around here to know most noob failures are from "over-tending" and I've been forcing myself to be hands off til now. Hopefully I haven't fallen into the same trap.
I appreciate you and DrunkUncle's help!
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DecadeThread
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Forgotten Oak]
#27083573 - 12/11/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey man, sorry to hear that happened. I'm on my second grow... and these pics are from today (10 days after bulk colonization). I'm a little worried about what I'm seeing but Im not sure. I was trying to get a second opinion...and liked some of the responses you received. I hope this pics are visable... this is my first time posting. If anyone has any thoughts, id appreciate it.
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Sankhara
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: DecadeThread]
#27083597 - 12/11/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its looking gooood
If those where to be a contamination you will be finding in the following days. I doubt its is though.
Keep going
-------------------- How would you rate the quality of my answer?
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DecadeThread
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Sankhara]
#27083619 - 12/11/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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thanks so much for your response, I hope your right that its looking good. I'll keep an eye on it and take more pics good or bad. I was planning on starting the fruiting stage in a few days.
Thanks again!
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Sankhara
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: DecadeThread]
#27083631 - 12/11/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Always spawn with fruiting conditions, theres no need to wait for full colonization or anything like that. Thats old info.
Contaminations come from dirty spawn.
Good luck
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DecadeThread
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Re: First Shoebox contaminated. What did I do wrong? [Re: Sankhara]
#27083652 - 12/11/20 09:16 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh Really? Okay good to know! My first attempt I just put the spawn into the bulk...and fruiting chamber and it worked pretty well. This time I thought, after reading different posts, that if I waited till the bulk was fully colonized before attempting to induce fruiting... it would produce a bigger yield. This second attempt...was just kind of a test run. Thanks for your responses, very appreciated!
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