Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Boomr Bag

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
Say hello to my little friend
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27081203 - 12/09/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
If I run 12 bags in my 75x and spawn them each to 14 quarts of coir verm to build a single mono, I’m in essence getting 168 quarts of colony in my 12 tubs from one sterilizer run. I’m not sure how I can get more from it.




Well if you are willing to go to compost or manure then things get interesting.  Do you know the spawning rate that button mushroom growers use?  Are you ready for this?  They use 0.5 to 0.75% spawning rate, and there is zero reason you could not use that with cubensis too.  Instead what are we using here?  What 33% or something, right?  The reason we use these super high spawning rates is because coco coir and vermiculite are very poor nutritionally.  In fact the vermiculite has no nutrition at all, and the coco coir is very nutrient poor.  But they hold a lot of water, as much as compost or manure.  I kind of like to think of these mixes as "synthetic manure".  If you are looking for TRUE bulk, then you have to go back to manure or compost.  That's just the facts.  Generally, I don't see people on this site complaining about not getting enough from the monotubs, though.  I mean we are talking about something that is used in the realm of a couple dozen grams fresh (if that), and a single 60-quart monotub which can yield thousands of grams fresh, which is a lot for this purpose.




I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Agaricus needs manure for more than just the nutrients, grain wouldn’t be a substitute in that case so it’s apples to oranges. IMO manure is a total time dump for cubes, doesn’t hold the water cubes want, etc.

If I only have time to run my sterilizer once a week, grain bags spawned to coir is giving me the most return for the least time and effort. Space becomes an issue at some point as well, I can’t see all the time dealing with manure as having any kind of yield benefits either. Most of my tests have showed coir outperforming.

I’m not knocking invitro colonization of bulk media (regardless of how strict your definition of that term may be), I’m just saying that it’s not possible to grow more volume in that manner compared with taking that same volume of colonized media and expanding it threefold. You might like the workflow or the inoculation options better. But you cannot convince me that you will grow more cubes from 48 quarts of substrate than you will from 168.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27081213 - 12/09/20 08:58 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

We grow drugs and choice edibles. We ain't the guys growing the mushroom that makes kids hate mushrooms with razor thin profit margins and ancient technology.

Button farms are atrocious compared to most edible and medicinal growers practices.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAtria
Stranger

Registered: 12/08/20
Posts: 14
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27081218 - 12/09/20 09:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Pasty, lemme just say it's an honor to be here now actually conversing like this, with all y'all really, legends to my eye. Like I said I've lurked here for years, spent many long nights reading posts from all three of y'all. Just so much gratitude and respect  :bow2:

I've got 3 quarts of crystal clear LC, inoculated with agar on 12/3, about 25% full of beautiful mycelium and I'm stoked to try this method.

I've never fucked with bags, an I'm a little worried about the .2 micron bags I got, but my plan is to put a piece of tyvek inbetween the filter patch and the side of the bag that lays over it, with tyvek sleeves in the tops of the bags.

I'm rocking a 5 year old presto 23, still going strong, just replaced the gasket \m/

Question; how much water does a presto with 3 quarters on the jiggle weight need to last 4 hours at 15 psi?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Atria]
    #27081223 - 12/09/20 09:01 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Use 3q of water and you'll be fine. You can run it at 14.5 psi with no weight and lose almost no water and no rattling too. So quarters or not it's the way it's ran that saves water or not.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAtria
Stranger

Registered: 12/08/20
Posts: 14
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27081237 - 12/09/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Got it. Thanks Bod. IME, I turn my electric stove down to medium at 15 psi and the PC peaks at 17-18, but I've never ran it more than 2 hours. Will 17-18 psi lose water too fast for a 4 hour run?

I can't get over your new avatar xDDD


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 7 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27081246 - 12/09/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
If I run 12 bags in my 75x and spawn them each to 14 quarts of coir verm to build a single mono, I’m in essence getting 168 quarts of colony in my 12 tubs from one sterilizer run. I’m not sure how I can get more from it.




Well if you are willing to go to compost or manure then things get interesting.  Do you know the spawning rate that button mushroom growers use?  Are you ready for this?  They use 0.5 to 0.75% spawning rate, and there is zero reason you could not use that with cubensis too.  Instead what are we using here?  What 33% or something, right?  The reason we use these super high spawning rates is because coco coir and vermiculite are very poor nutritionally.  In fact the vermiculite has no nutrition at all, and the coco coir is very nutrient poor.  But they hold a lot of water, as much as compost or manure.  I kind of like to think of these mixes as "synthetic manure".  If you are looking for TRUE bulk, then you have to go back to manure or compost.  That's just the facts.  Generally, I don't see people on this site complaining about not getting enough from the monotubs, though.  I mean we are talking about something that is used in the realm of a couple dozen grams fresh (if that), and a single 60-quart monotub which can yield thousands of grams fresh, which is a lot for this purpose.




I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Agaricus needs manure for more than just the nutrients, grain wouldn’t be a substitute in that case so it’s apples to oranges. IMO manure is a total time dump for cubes, doesn’t hold the water cubes want, etc.

If I only have time to run my sterilizer once a week, grain bags spawned to coir is giving me the most return for the least time and effort. Space becomes an issue at some point as well, I can’t see all the time dealing with manure as having any kind of yield benefits either. Most of my tests have showed coir outperforming.

I’m not knocking invitro colonization of bulk media (regardless of how strict your definition of that term may be), I’m just saying that it’s not possible to grow more volume in that manner compared with taking that same volume of colonized media and expanding it threefold. You might like the workflow or the inoculation options better. But you cannot convince me that you will grow more cubes from 48 quarts of substrate than you will from 168.





Button mushrooms are a secondary decomposer so may require compost or manure which are already decomposed by the action of bacteria.  Cubensis are secondary as well as primary decomposers so you have the option of growing on grains (or just about anything) too.  We utilize grains here because we are doing small grows where the substrate's cost is irrelevant to the endpoint.  Likewise, using the exact same logic, I am suggesting to sterilize the bulk rather than the spawn because energy costs and space are irrelevant. 

If you were to maximize cubensis growing for cost, you would do exactly what button mushroom growers already do.  And what they do is well publicized.  They produce compost and inoculate at a rate of about 0.5%.  In comparison, we use relatively expensive grains like millet or rye and even more expensive vermiculite and coco coir.  To compensate for the poor nutrition of coco coir and vermiculite we use extremely high spawn rates of literally 66 times what a typical button mushroom grower does.  That would be utter lunacy except for the fact we don't really give a shit about our costs here.  If, in the future, cubensis growing became big legal business--and it might--professional growers would slowly morph into the same paradigms that button mushrooms do in order to maximize profits. 

I don't understand why what I was saying was a point of contention, but I noticed that Shroomery now is a site where if someone says "Farts stink" a couple of the moderators and about ten to twenty users respond, "Actually, I really like the smell of farts and shit.  Maybe you stink, loser!"  And that is fine.  As a particular moderator told me, I had to grow up and recognize that there are a lot of trolls on here.  Okay.  I fail to see the entertainment value in it, but whatever.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
Say hello to my little friend
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27081258 - 12/09/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I’m not sure button mushroom practices are ideal for cubensis despite the fact that cubensis occupies the niche of a secondary decomposer in nature. That’s pretty much just my opinion but I feel cubes have a lot more in common with Stropharia than Agaricus. Either way based of my experiences I’m pretty sure no agaricus grower is going to produce anywhere near the amount I do per square foot of indoor fruiting space.

For instance I not going to want to run a 1:45 spawn ratio regardless of the media used simply because cubes do not like a substrate that large. Agaricus growers run monster ass beds, cubes wouldn’t appreciate those much IME.

I like coir verm because it’s easy to prep, brainless for that matter. In 25 min I have 40 quarts of sub prepped and cooling. I can’t say the same for any other bulk media.

If I want to pull 12 of these a week;



and if I don’t want to run my sterilizer more than once a week, spawning grain is a very helpful tool.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinestarbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 3 months, 4 days
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27081264 - 12/09/20 09:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Comparing white button mushrooms to commercial backroom cubensis is dumb and bad.


:cop2:


Edited by mushboy (12/09/20 09:59 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 7 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: starbones]
    #27081283 - 12/09/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I have noticed that this thread is starting down the road of totally irrelevance like every single thread I have started in the last two years on this site. 

Because I do not like that, because it is disrespectful to other users that might actually be interested in the core topic covered in the thread, and because when I reply I participate in ruining the integrity of the thread, I am no longer going to reply to this thread.  I'll leave it to the few people who consistently derail threads to take over that job.

And as for me: I will post yield numbers of the spawned tubs versus the LC-to-bulk tubs next, but it will be probably 2 to 3 weeks until then.  Until that time, I have zero interest in this thread.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
modboy
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,386
Loc: where?
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: starbones]
    #27081288 - 12/09/20 09:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

What a terrible post:facepalm:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinestarbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 3 months, 4 days
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: mushboy]
    #27081291 - 12/09/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:blowmybrainsout:
Yeah I know, I dun did forgotted about the thing I dun did forget about there.
You know what I was meaning though.

On another note if I didn't make spawn I'd only get 10 fruiting substrates per PC run, that's 2+ hours of my time. In that same time if I do spawning I can make 30 fruiting substrates by expanding that spawn 1:3. Ipso facto time has value, inputs are cheap.


--------------------
Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung
Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
modboy
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,386
Loc: where?
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: starbones]
    #27081293 - 12/09/20 10:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Not just you just this thread in general :lol::facepalm:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
Say hello to my little friend
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: mushboy]
    #27081341 - 12/09/20 11:13 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Honestly I’m sorry if I’ve pushed this off topic. However I got to say that I have a hard time with the idea that any particular method is “best” they all have their own pros and cons. I think if people want to eliminate grain from their grow that’s a perfectly fine strategy that has lots of upside. I messed around lots with grain free growing. Just don’t want to say it’s something it’s not.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,284
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Blue Helix] * 5
    #27081392 - 12/10/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

You just don’t like it when the people you’re dogging in your round about smug way (that I’m sure isn’t lost anyone) stand up for themselves and ride you out of town on a rail because you’re spouting nonsense and trying to make everyone else feel inferior. Putting coir through a pc is a waste of space.  I can order coir and verm on Amazon and it doesn’t giving me anxiety that my apt neighbors think I’m literally cooking horse shit on my stove.  Coir is ridiculously easy to prep.. I mean, you should know.. you prep it before you put it in your grow bags, right?  That’s why I use the tools I use and I’m glad the tools you use works for you but cut out the passive aggressive BS

And if you don’t need to soak grains, why the hell would I?  Who soaks oats and rye and wheat?  I can hydrate as much grain as my kitchen can withstand in 45 mins. You’re  adding steps to us simpletons process in order to make yours sound more appealing.  Hell, I don’t even wash my jars.. just wipe the rim to save time.  I don’t need to make more than 6 qts at a time.. do that twice a week and I’m set.. that’s a nice cycle for me and I don’t need bags where I can possibly lose all my work in one shot because of a dirty LC.  Coir is extremely contam resistant compared to manure/straw.. I’ve done both plenty of times and CV always wins

We use high spawn because it’s fast AF with high returns.  Time is money. To me, it sounds like you’re trying to convince me taking away an hour and then adding two is going to save me time.. I’m just not buying what you’re selling.  Every time I read one of your posts, the first thing that comes to my mind is, “this fucking guy.. :rolleyes:

Faht


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAtria
Stranger

Registered: 12/08/20
Posts: 14
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27082094 - 12/10/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Is it possible to get this thread back on topic by asking for help with my LCs?

They're 2% LME. Had sediment at the bottom out of the PC, but the sediment seems to have been consumed by the mycelium.



inoculated a week ago with agar, now there's brown blobs.
does the mycelium that sequestered the sediment take on the color of the sediment or is this contam?



the blobs have a 2d appearance and seem to form along the bottom/stir bar



they look good to me other than that, anybody have any info on this?

thanks


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineProfessor X
School for the Gifted
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/18/19
Posts: 2,719
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Atria]
    #27082148 - 12/10/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Atria said:
Whatup Josex, I've learned alot from you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily against spawn by any stretch.

I do, however, see the appeal of colonizing the final fruiting sub in a sealed sterile environment. It eliminates several vectors of contamination, and while I'm pretty confident in my SAB work (when working in the 19" tall SAB that I usually use), it would be cool to eliminate all those extra steps yknow?



To be perfectly honest, spawning to 100% coir doesn't contaminate unless the spawn is bad, ever. I run wbs to coir 1 to 1. 3.5 quarts hot tap water per 650g coir in buckets, 4 quart spawn to 4 quart coir in 32 quart tubs and get 4 to 6 oz per tub dry 1st flush. 3 easy steps, agar, grain, spawn. Grain spawn is super simple and in my experience simple is best. Coir works great then people start adding stuff like gypsum, vermiculite and coffee and having a lot of issues when all that other stufff literally doesn't add anything to potency yield or speed. Not telling you not to reinvent the wheel just adding a counter thought to maybe deter newbies from going this route.

My signature is 1qt spawn to 1qt coir in a shoebox from my ks isolate. I run 2 isolates, a ks and an aa+

My overall costs come in at about $8 per pound, wbs just went up it was 6. I could do it for less than 30 if I literally tossed the tubs, jars and dishes after every run but jars and tubs are scarce right now so that's not happening.


--------------------

My no pour Petri TEK - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27252059/page/1


Edited by Professor X (12/10/20 01:07 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAbabyphoenix
You
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/21/19
Posts: 1,015
Loc: Human Body
Last seen: 10 days, 8 hours
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Professor X]
    #27082331 - 12/10/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Oh god its this guy.... :rolleyes:


--------------------


:sporedrop::aum:Pho's MushiAventures::aum::sporedrop:
:heartpump:My '21 GLOG:heartpump:
:peace: LAGM 2022 :peace:



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineProfessor X
School for the Gifted
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/18/19
Posts: 2,719
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Ababyphoenix]
    #27082374 - 12/10/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ababyphoenix said:
Oh god its this guy.... :rolleyes:



I know. I suck since I disagreed with OP and agree with everyone else in this thread. Shame on me. I should just quit.


--------------------

My no pour Petri TEK - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27252059/page/1


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAtria
Stranger

Registered: 12/08/20
Posts: 14
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit *DELETED* [Re: Professor X]
    #27082399 - 12/10/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by Atria

Reason for deletion: meh


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleNobler Hino
a dojo and a forge?!
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/29/15
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Deep Ellum Flag
Re: Breaking the old spawning habit [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27082405 - 12/10/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I'm a huge fan blue's work! No reason to get defensive if people challenge you bro, you're still a hall of famer man.

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I got to say that I have a hard time with the idea that any particular method is “best” they all have their own pros and cons. I think if people want to eliminate grain from their grow that’s a perfectly fine strategy that has lots of upside. I messed around lots with grain free growing. Just don’t want to say it’s something it’s not.




Agreed


--------------------

"The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.”
– Maria Sabina


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Boomr Bag


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* I need help with poop. Myco-420 11,364 11 09/09/20 10:30 AM
by Capefearjay
* The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Hippie3 66,317 86 03/01/23 08:28 PM
by 6The6Despised6One
* Trichoderma isn't harmful to humans BBShrizz 7,210 1 10/10/01 09:18 AM
by shellacct
* A few questions about Rye Berry spawn bags.... ModestMouserrrrr 8,548 11 06/20/03 10:38 PM
by ModestMouserrrrr
* I have a casing that won't pin. Can i break it up for spawn????? splifferd 434 5 12/07/04 10:28 AM
by ZeroArmy27
* Breaking up dung, can one use blender or something?? Visigoth 806 6 11/27/05 12:28 AM
by HippieChick
* Trichoderma (Forest Green Mold) taibensis 2,723 3 12/13/04 03:15 AM
by ohmatic
* why do people use spawn bags?
( 1 2 all )
shirley knott 18,963 34 08/30/03 10:03 AM
by OJK

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
1,875 topic views. 16 members, 132 guests and 35 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.