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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut



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Transient process of the "I"
#27077824 - 12/07/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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So lately I've been deeply trying to experiment and comprehend what Krishnamurti describes as the coming together and self-sustaining structure of the "I" process. This Series of talks go into it quite tastefully, but here it gets quite interesting to me. As I best conceive of it, the self is not, but an empty process without a solid core to "be". A series of mutating jumps to another, and far as I can tell, the self as is is transient. We are actually nothing.
I'm a Christian in a Eastern Philosophy/Theology complex!
But, first let me pose you the Question:
Quote:
Question: Is not the theosophical conception of the Masters of Wisdom and evolution of the soul as sound as the scientific conception of biological growth of life in organic matter?
Krishnamurti: That which is capable of growth is not eternal. The theosophic or the religious conception is one of individual growth - the process of the "I" becoming greater and greater by acquiring more and more virtue and comprehension. That is, the "I" is capable of indefinite growth, reaching greater and greater heights of perfection, and to help it onwards Masters, disciplines and religious organizations are necessary.
So long as one does not understand what the "I" is, then Masters of some kind or other become an illusory necessity. It may not be a Master in the theosophical sense, it may be a saint of a church or a spiritual authority of an organization. What we have to understand is not whether the Masters exist or not, whether they are necessary or not, but whether the "I" in its growth, in its expansion, can become eternal or lead to the comprehension of truth. The problem is not whether Masterhood is a perfectly natural process, but whether discernment of truth can come to a mind which is held in the "I" process. If you consider the "I" to be eternal, then it cannot grow, it must be timeless, spaceless. So the idea that the "I" becomes a Master through growth, experience, is an illusion. Or, the "I" process is transient. To bring this process to an end, no outside agency however great can ever be of help, for the "I" process is self-active, sustaining itself through its volitional activities. You have to consider whether the "I" is eternal or transient. But it is not a question of choice, for all choice is based on ignorance, prejudice, want.
Some of you may not be concerned with the belief in the Masters of the Theosophists, yet when sorrow comes to you, you may seek some other spiritual authority or guidance, and it is this dependence on another that perpetuates the "I" process, with its subtle exploitation and sorrow. [url=http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1936-1944-the-mirror-of-relationship/krishnamurti-the-mirror-of-relationship-15]
If it's up to us to find out if the Self is Eternal or Transient, what is your discovery? I Pray for Eternal Life in Heaven and yet coming down from a Robotririp where where a I saw Countless duplicates of my self in Countless Worlds all of them studying, searching, and meditating, saying "There's supposed to be a 'no-self' somewhere around here!"... I'm crushed with heavy weight of Ignorance here!
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Hikeadellic
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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: saintdextro]
#27077855 - 12/07/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I recently had this thought that maybe the systems of karma are what effects the transition of the self to the next place and the systems of morality of the Abrahamic religions are what governs the outcome of the concept of ones own identity
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: saintdextro]
#27077897 - 12/07/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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The I is like a river.
Or do you see through the Eye of Ra?
Through the beneath and through the darkness..
Interesting epistemology. Through reason we concrete focus into and out of knowledge..
The plateaus of sublime prophet are perceptions.
The way out is a cosmic karmic key to the unity of Earth..
Grasshopper training wetware Ninjutsu!
Even black (and by this I mean personal quality, not skin color) people go digging for gold..
The Silver Copper ministry is made up of concrete things.. but we never know more than our curiosity about how rare things can have much more value..
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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut



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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: Hikeadellic]
#27077932 - 12/07/20 10:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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What are of the problems of the theory of karma with all those Abrahamic religions? Someone try and make sense of that conundrum!
BTW, As in the series of talks comes to the question, Do you Love, and are you Kind, because the reward of it? does Purity not come from a different spring altogether?
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: saintdextro]
#27078022 - 12/08/20 12:05 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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“We see things not as they are, but as we are. Because it is the 'I' behind the 'eye' that does the seeing.”
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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BrendanFlock
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Part of observing is thinking...which is a type of ought or creation.
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Hikeadellic
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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: saintdextro]
#27078862 - 12/08/20 02:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I had this idea while processing my last trip, it made so much sense to me put I'm having trouble explaining it
It's kinda like the aspect of you as a human with a personality is governed by Judeo-Christian philosophy and the aspects of you that is not is govern by karma
Again I have no idea what is true so take this with a grain of salt
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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut



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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: Hikeadellic]
#27078968 - 12/08/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Remember, Indulging the senses and mind through Psychedelics, which brighter, enhance, puts in more detail the perceptions of life, is the opposite direction of Meditation, I cant imagine anyone but a toughened meditator to be able to not be the ego on a trip, the ego is not all that bad, it's just your relationship, identity with environment, with things, people and ideas, just objectified positions mixed into your Subjective self, that gets brightened on a trip, doesn't it? it's been over a decade sense my last trip with 2c-I, and morning glories but they had the aspect of problem solving of concepts in my mind, putting the puzzle in place, sorting out the ego? isn't this what happened on a trip?
Edited by saintdextro (12/09/20 12:53 AM)
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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut



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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: saintdextro]
#27079022 - 12/08/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I must emphasize, Arjuna, that you have to lift yourself by your own efforts! You must not allow yourself to be demeaned by your own ego-self. Know that the self can be both friend or foe --- a friend when used to conquer the mind, senses, and body; a foe when it drags into the mind, senses, and body. True Self (Atma) is the alley; the ego-mind self is the enemy.
Bhagavad Gita 6:5-6.
Jack Hawley.
Quote:
He should lift up the self by the Self and not sink into the selfish; for the self is the only friend of the Self, and it's only foe
The self is a friend for him who masters himself by the Self; but for him who is not self-mastered, the self is the cruelest foe.
Bhagavad Gita 6:5-6.
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Yellow Pants


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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: saintdextro]
#27079093 - 12/08/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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“time is the moving image of eternity”
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: BrendanFlock]
#27079739 - 12/08/20 11:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said: “time is the moving image of eternity”
said that Plato said that (IIRC)!
Quote:
BrendanFlock said: Part of observing is thinking...which is a type of ought or creation.
Agreed. We're also not our thoughts, but that which perceives them.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut



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Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Quote:
Part of observing is thinking...which is a type of ought or creation.
Agreed. We're also not our thoughts, but that which perceives them.
Yes, In my meditations I've seen this. My consciousness is much bigger than what was my ordinary way I've been caught up an in what was my tunnel vision of thinking my thoughts were. And formally were so real, The world is huge and one, thoughts just below or outside randomly arising and passing, no me creating them, nor where the schizo voice's I uniquely hear, telling me I'm going to hell or am beautiful and going to heaven. But I could feel the huger world and see circle of clarity and what was seeming to be a bigger and the real me or the true one with Environment of me (I didn't Experience nothingness that I ponder is told to me a Realer "my Being" by the Buddhist, it still felt like it was Really me. But I could see it wasn't my Will/Volition creating the words in my head.) I can still just remember that way I've seeing the world and connect with that perception of what is really me. It relieves my anxiety and worry that my thoughts in it's Schizo way I've sabotaging my mind and trying to manifest/formulate bad, evil and blasphemous thoughts that normally would scare me thinking I"m an actually evil person. (it's like I'm possessed by an evil presence, a Nightmare Life!)
(Edit/added: MY Spirit Guide has in the past giving me Religious experiencing of 'Dream' 'Synchronicity' Vision of Confirming me that the world's 'Lord' has giving me Unconditional Love no matter what I ever Think, Say or Act in the world. Yes, I'm saved! the Presence is True!)
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
Edited by saintdextro (12/09/20 12:54 AM)
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saintdextro
Entheogen psychonaut



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Re: Transient process of the "I" [Re: saintdextro]
#27080328 - 12/09/20 11:28 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think this Song speaks to me on this Subject:
Beach Fossils - Be Nothing
-------------------- "He who finds peace and joy And radiance within himself That man becomes one with God And vanishes into God's bliss." -Bhagavad Gita, 5.24 One 21 - Building Better Bombs One 21 - Pacified One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine "Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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