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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27083474 - 12/11/20 06:03 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

May be the bag didn't survive the pc-cycle. That happens often. But if you don't use a flow hood I think it's just wet spot that took over.
Did you make the spawn yourself or was it commercial spawn? Make a glove box that will improve significantly your success rate.

:frenchie:


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OfflinePossum-Pie
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: frog48]
    #27084072 - 12/11/20 02:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

frog48 said:
May be the bag didn't survive the pc-cycle. That happens often. But if you don't use a flow hood I think it's just wet spot that took over.
Did you make the spawn yourself or was it commercial spawn? Make a glove box that will improve significantly your success rate.

:frenchie:




Thanks, I made the spawn in Pressure Cooked canning jars. I have a pinhole drilled in the lid and when the jar cools, I stick a sterile needle into the lid and squirt in inoculant.  Then I cover the hole with tape.  Jar inoculated beautifully and no sign of contaminants in the spawn jar when I opened it.  The most "unclean" thing I did was dumping from jar to bags. That should have been in front of a laminar hood. The bags were immediately hot-sealed after pressure cooking and there was no holes noted at that time.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27084125 - 12/11/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Buy polyfill for your spawn jars. Drill a 1/4 hole in the lid and stuff with the polyfill then heat the needle to sterilize and right before you push the needle through the polyfill push out a couple of drops of liquid to cool the needle.


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OfflinePossum-Pie
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27085001 - 12/12/20 03:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Buy polyfill for your spawn jars. Drill a 1/4 hole in the lid and stuff with the polyfill then heat the needle to sterilize and right before you push the needle through the polyfill push out a couple of drops of liquid to cool the needle.



Thanks for the tip Shroomsisay01.  I'll give that a try next batch. Anyone have an idea of a contaminant that isn't easily seen? Looking the remaining bags over, I see no discoloration, webbing, etc. to indicate what pathogen ruined it. I don't ever heat the needles as I use sterile needles every time. These have been sterilized for human injection by the manufacturer. As I mentioned before, my greatest risk for contaminants is during the transfer of spawn jar contents to bags. Glove box or laminar flow with HEPA filter would solve that, I was "cutting corners" as I've not had a problem with other mushrooms on grow blocks until I tried Shiitake.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27085582 - 12/12/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I hate to tell you but you are still having problems with shiitake. I would still flame sterile the needle. Why risk everything for about 3 or 4 seconds just buy a touch liter and you can do it quickly.

Bacteria can be hard to see.

Check your PM's I am sending you something.


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (12/12/20 11:51 AM)


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27085614 - 12/12/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

When you try with the polyfill you have to cover the lids with a square of aluminum foil or the polyfill will soak up water. That will drip off the lid of your PC.


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OfflinePossum-Pie
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27085997 - 12/12/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

After watching some wonderful videos that SHROOMSISAY01 recommended, I discovered the cause of my early Shiitake death.  As I mentioned in the other thread, I overfilled the small bags. There was no room for O2 and after the mycelium reached a critical development, the lack of gas exchange killed it. This is why the mycelium didn't ever reach the inner core of the substrate, it suffocated to death. I want to thank everyone for the suggestions, I'm new to indoor mushroom cultivation and it's a learning curve.  On the positive note, My Hen of the Woods are doing great in the grow room and in 10-14 days I should have my first flush. Next batch I'll be more careful with moisture content, sterile technique and headspace for gas exchange and hopefully have a harvest.


Edited by Possum-Pie (12/12/20 03:45 PM)


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Offlinetaku
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27086086 - 12/12/20 04:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Also thanks for posting this. I've been learning just by watching the thread 👍


--------------------


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OfflinePossum-Pie
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: taku]
    #27086252 - 12/12/20 06:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

taku said:
Also thanks for posting this. I've been learning just by watching the thread 👍



You got it...we all learn from mistakes.


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Invisiblejunior c
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27087091 - 12/13/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

How overfilled were the bags? and were they a 0.2 or 0.5 filter?
Some shiitake growers use the 0.2 due to the long colonization period, but is 0.5 better? I recently switched over. So far 0.5 bags appear to colonize quicker.


What videos were recommended? Would love to gain some insights as well. Shroomsisay01?


--------------------
"Existence has overpowered books. Today, I slew a Mushroom" - Emily D


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27087554 - 12/13/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Possum-Pie said:
Quote:

taku said:
Also thanks for posting this. I've been learning just by watching the thread 👍



You got it...we all learn from mistakes.




Mistakes what's that? I don't know if I learn from my mistakes or not. As soon as I make one. I will let you all know if I learn anything.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: junior c]
    #27090038 - 12/15/20 08:23 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

junior c said:
How overfilled were the bags? and were they a 0.2 or 0.5 filter?
Some shiitake growers use the 0.2 due to the long colonization period, but is 0.5 better? I recently switched over. So far 0.5 bags appear to colonize quicker.




I've seen green mold form directly below the filter patch when I used .5 bags for shiitake.  That's why I would always stick to the .2


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflinePossum-Pie
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Forrester]
    #27090153 - 12/15/20 09:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

junior c said:
How overfilled were the bags? and were they a 0.2 or 0.5 filter?
Some shiitake growers use the 0.2 due to the long colonization period, but is 0.5 better? I recently switched over. So far 0.5 bags appear to colonize quicker.




I've seen green mold form directly below the filter patch when I used .5 bags for shiitake.  That's why I would always stick to the .2




Yes, I had b/g mold grow right under a 0.5 filter on Miatike fruiting block. Luckily the Mycelium was far enough along and fruiting that the mold didn't spread. My understanding is that b/c Shiitake take so long they need the 0.2 micron filter rather than the 0.5 micron? Is this correct?


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Invisiblejunior c
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27090676 - 12/15/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

comparing 0.5 vs. 0.2.

This 2000 paper comes to mind:
http://www.pubhort.org/ejhs/2000/file_3406.pdf
"CO2 Output During Incubation and Crop Yield of Shiitake".
They used small holes instead of a filter patch and browned out of the bag (do people still do this?). Finding was more holes/gas exchange, up to a certain point, (+) correlated with yield.

sound bites:
"It can be expected that a heavy impediment of gas exchange has a  negative influence on the crop yield."
"An insufficient permeability of the bags causes a reduction of the CO2 output and connected with it, a reduction of the metabolic activity of the shiitake mycelium"
"first flush is more affected than the total yield."
"The loss due to infections in the incubation period were less than 2%"

Also worth considering the CO2 concentration gradient. What's the CO2 of the incubating room and the importance of mitigating high CO2 to keep the gases flowing in the bag head space. As observed by possum-pie, reduced head space in the bag can be detrimental.

Last spring, when out of filter patch bags, I attached cut out/recycled 0.2 filters to a modified syringe tube and ziptied them to the top of a Uline poly bag. These bags didn't do so hot. With reduced 0.2 surface area, I'd consider them to be at the far low end of gas exchange.

Compared to 0.5. Is this too much exchange? Too much in the sense that it allows contams to enter or that it allows contams within the substrate that prefer more O2 to grow? Obviously the amount of supplementation would influence how much you can get away with.

I also occasionally see trich within 0.5 patch proximity.


--------------------
"Existence has overpowered books. Today, I slew a Mushroom" - Emily D


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Reconstructing what went wrong with Shiitake fruiting block [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27095522 - 12/18/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Possum-Pie said:
My understanding is that b/c Shiitake take so long they need the 0.2 micron filter rather than the 0.5 micron? Is this correct?




Yes I would definitely go with .2 for that reason


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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