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Onlineverytastycheese
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What happened?
    #27078974 - 12/08/20 05:51 PM (1 month, 15 days ago)

Alright so admittedly it was my first crack at Agar but far from my first grow. Oddly all my success so far has been with multispore G2G but this time I thought I had a healthy culture. It grew like mycelium, It smelled like mushrooms, it colonized quickly... and it turned to trich. 16 bins and not a single pin. Is it possible this was never actually mycelium in the first place? Did I get that rare non-pinning culture?



A Couple magnified images:




I admit this stuff looks a little fuzzier than what I'm growing now. While I don't have a pic of the original agar plate I do have pics of some of its babies which all look more like cotton balls than mycelium.




Do other molds have that same fingery growth and mushroom smell just to throw me off? Did I just have some bacteria I couldn't see or smell in any way?

All the wisdom here says go back to the spawn, so that's what I'm doing. I took 4 transfers off my original spore plate and abandoned the failed series and moved to one of its siblings. So far I like how it looks... but I'm no expert.

This is the plate I transferred off and let continue to grow. Disturbance is from the transfers.

Some zooms of what I'm fairly certain is real mycelium this time





How can I be sure this is clean and real mycelium? How can I know it will pin? How does it look to you?

Thanks in advance for any advice!


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Offlinekanemush
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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27078988 - 12/08/20 06:03 PM (1 month, 15 days ago)

jars look a little wet to me so possible contimnation there. you cant really tell with agar if it will pin. unless you decide to let it try and pin on the agar then clone it. let some others chime in and help you out.


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27079000 - 12/08/20 06:18 PM (1 month, 15 days ago)

That definitely looks like healthy mycelium on your plates. You can't ever 'guarantee' a fruiting strain, but rhizomorphic growth typically fruits a lot better than the fluffy stuff. Make sure you've thoroughly cleaned your grow area after disposing the trich growth, and be extra clean during spawning.


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OfflineCrackatoaS
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Re: What happened? [Re: Justweed]
    #27079130 - 12/08/20 07:38 PM (1 month, 15 days ago)

I would def take some more transfers from the edges, as little as possible. There's something riding along. I've been there before. Trich seems to have a way of hiding during jar colonization, I always do 2 shakes to make sure its got good recovery. I always like to do an extra transfer or two for safety sake unless its just beautiful. Could also have gotten something during the G2G process.


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27079519 - 12/08/20 11:07 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

I'm wondering about the fuzziness riding on top of my cultures. Otherwise they seem to look alright but is this just tomentose growth or a contam?



This little guy was transferred the size of a pinhead, hopefully that helped get an isolation but he just looks like a ball of fuzz so far. Is this how they usually begin?



Zoomed in



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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27080279 - 12/09/20 12:57 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Crackatoa said:
I would def take some more transfers from the edges, as little as possible. There's something riding along. I've been there before. Trich seems to have a way of hiding during jar colonization, I always do 2 shakes to make sure its got good recovery. I always like to do an extra transfer or two for safety sake unless its just beautiful. Could also have gotten something during the G2G process.




Are you saying you can see something riding along (The fuzziness) on my latest plates, or just that a ridealong must have been the reason for my past failures? Thanks!


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OfflineQuirkmeister92
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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27080286 - 12/09/20 01:02 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Well I wouldn't use the growth you have without transfers so it's possible there is something riding along. Like crack said  take more transfers. You want uniform growth. Additionally your sterile procedures must be on par or better.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: What happened? [Re: Quirkmeister92]
    #27080298 - 12/09/20 01:08 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

The density of the plates doesnt look 100% healthy.

That mycelium looks stressed. Its too dense.


--------------------
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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Quirkmeister92]
    #27080625 - 12/09/20 04:32 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Quirkmeister92 said:
Well I wouldn't use the growth you have without transfers so it's possible there is something riding along. Like crack said  take more transfers. You want uniform growth. Additionally your sterile procedures must be on par or better.




I've taken more transfers and I believe my sterile procedures are pretty on point as I've never had anything grow on a clean plate or anywhere I didn't place it, nor have I had any sort of contam on a plate I could detect by sight or smell. If anything it's a hidden myc looking contam that's coming along with my transfers, or just tomentose growth on top of rhizo?

Here's the newer transfers just starting off.






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OfflineCrackatoaS
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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27080905 - 12/09/20 07:49 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

How small of a piece are you taking? My transfers usually have more empty space than myc.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Crackatoa] * 1
    #27080934 - 12/09/20 08:11 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)




I can't believe nobody has seen the mold in these pics. Gimme a sec and I'll circle it for you.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27080945 - 12/09/20 08:18 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)



Here you go.


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OfflineJustweed
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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27080946 - 12/09/20 08:19 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
I can't believe nobody has seen the mold in these pics. Gimme a sec and I'll circle it for you.




OP already pointed out that they have trich. We're talking about his agar now.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Justweed]
    #27080948 - 12/09/20 08:21 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

That he had trich in his tubs....


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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27080981 - 12/09/20 08:37 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

His plates may need some more work but I don't think they're contaminated, at any rate not with mold.

It looks like that mold got in the jars upon inoculation.

Those jars in the pic would have needed a shake if they had had no mold, it would have sped things up a lot.


Edited by Josex (12/09/20 08:48 PM)


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27081076 - 12/09/20 09:30 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

verytastycheese said:
... If anything it's a hidden myc looking contam that's coming along with my transfers, or just tomentose growth on top of rhizo?





I think i've got this exact scenario going on with a few of my plates.  Thinking of trying Josex's "clean yo shit" tek to isolate.  Will be following your progress for sure.  Please keep us posted and thanks.


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OfflineQuirkmeister92
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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27081357 - 12/10/20 01:33 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Josex said:


Here you go.



I think we all saw it although OP may not have I guess...

Moving beyond the painfully obvious point of; don't use moldy spawn...

Those transfers are looking decent. Smaller samples are definitely helpful.


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Quirkmeister92]
    #27081906 - 12/10/20 12:16 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Thanks all. Yeah I caught the mold in those jars but what I'm wondering is if the myc I had was actually real, was that trich in its infancy, myc that never mated and won't pin, really thick cobweb mould, or something else? In my closeups of those jars I don't see much for rhizo or organized growth. Same for the plates I still have of that culture, just looking like a thick cotton ball.

Not that it matters anyway, let's see how these new plates look today:

Here's the transfer plate these are from, looking pretty uniform except where I disturbed it IMO, though The Mycologist says it looks dense/stressed.


The transfer to this plate shifted while I was shaking it trying to get rid of some of the condensation. I'm struggling to photograph the fuzziness on top. Wondering if I should try taking a transfer of just that without cutting into the agar to see if I get more of the same or just a puffball.


Some zooms of my little agar sandwiches from Dec 7. These just look like puffballs right now too but maybe that's just them in their infancy before sending out the rhizo feelers?


And here's my little puffball from Dec 3. Man it takes so much longer to get started when you take a poppyseed sized transfer. Looks like I can still see more than one culture there though.


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27081919 - 12/10/20 12:28 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Honestly I can't see anything wrong with those plates. I think the reason myc is looking dense like that is because of too much nutrition. Reminds me of some plates I had when I started with the hobby where I usually went a bit too heavy on the honey for the potato recipe.

Correlation doesn't mean causation in some cases, but you got mold in those jars via technique it looks like, which makes think maybe you need to tighten up your game there. Mold can definitely hide very well in your spawn sometimes.

Also, my looking puffy in the center happens sometimes too. It's just growing from the wedge itself trying to find food above only to find air. Your wedges are pretty big too, so that makes even more sense.


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27092282 - 12/16/20 04:25 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Thanks. I like the theory that they're just overfed. I have a few plates that I poured thick and a few that I poured sideways and I can see that the thicker the pour the more it tends towards tomentose growth. IE:

This one was a lot more Rhizo when it started, but it also started on the thin side (I shook it after dropping my wedge... oops) It has been slowing down and thickening out lately.


I'm making more peroxide agar today and dropping from 10gLME to 7g per 500ml water and 10g agar. Hopefully that helps, although these T4 plates are looking pretty good now. So another question, does a plate have to be fully colonized before dropping it to master jars? At what point would you drop these in?





I did an experiment with the T3 mother plate to hopefully confirm that this genetics will actually pin for me. Just cut it in half and dropped both halves into a jar, first transfer done under my LFH! Looking like good growth so far :smile:


I'm anxious that I'm not spotting any contams on any of these though. What's the best color for agar to spot contams on?


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27092339 - 12/16/20 04:49 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Non-fruiting genetics are extremely rare, to the point I doubt you'd ever encounter them in your life.
99,999999% of the times, tubs not fruiting are caused by contamination and/or bad conditions. So you shouldn't trip over that, neither should you trip over your plates because they're looking fantastic.

Color blue is good for spotting contams, as well as no food color at all, no sweat there.

Don't waste your time adding peroxide to your agar, it's going to turn into plain water when sterilized. We use agar to let any existing contamination show up, so we can transfer away from it, so this is not about using bandaids.

Work on your technique inoculating grain jars because it's plain as day you've been screwing up there. Inoculating with little agar wedges helps a lot preventing contams from technique. I would advise against dropping a whole plate per jar, as this is more likely to let in contams.

Those plates are ready for grain right now, no need to let them grow further if you don't want to.


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27092387 - 12/16/20 05:18 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Josex thanks for the advice!
From what I was reading RR and others would put 1/3 of a plate in their grain jars. Is that excessive? Are you saying wedges like I would transfer or like pizza slices? Do you by chance have a link I could read up on to brush up on that technique? I finally have my LFH so that should help I figure :wink:


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27092410 - 12/16/20 05:34 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Any size wedge would do. I like little triangular wedges, maybe like twice as big as the wedges you are currently using for agar to agar transfers.

Then, I barely crack open the lid of the grain jar and I use the (sterile) inner rim of the jar to get the wedge off the blade and immediately close the lid again.
It's all done very swiftly, this way you ensure you limit the time you expose the media (grains) to a minimum.

Another advantage is, you can inoculate a lot of jars with one single plate by using small wedges.
You can shake when the wedge grows out about an inch in diameter, then shake again at 30% and maybe a last shake later if needed.


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OfflineCrackatoaS
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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27092725 - 12/16/20 08:33 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

:whathesaid: Josex for the perfect explanation.


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27099634 - 12/20/20 06:39 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

Update: I followed your method and knocked up 8 jars from 2 plates along with child plates. The jars are growing as expected and I'm waiting for a little over quarter size to shake.

The jar I dropped the whole agar plate in after transfers did in fact contam out after the first shake. I'll stick with dropping wedges in. Thanks for that :smile:

The plate I took the transfers from looked badass after a couple days so:


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27099640 - 12/20/20 06:42 PM (1 month, 3 days ago)

That plate is absolutely boss man, you'll look back some day when you're a pro and realize it isn't easy to come across a culture looking that nice.
And to think some people were shitting on your plates in this very thread lol.

Please keep us updated on this grow, I for one would like to see it to the end.


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27099981 - 12/20/20 11:04 PM (1 month, 2 days ago)

Damn you're quick on the draw Josex. Replied within 3 mins! :eek:

Thanks so much! Considering what you've said, how should I go about storing this culture? I have a mini fridge in the lab that I'm putting some extra plates in to stall them out but I'm not sure for how long.

I honestly expected more contams in this part of the process, so now I've got more plates than I know what to do with. Here are my next few.

This one grew a little oddly. I think it's just the way the myc crawled off the deep wedge corner, but could it maybe be a contam?


And the other 2 coming along nicely.

Does that sectoring look like different cultures or just the way it came together? I'd like to figure out how yall get those nice circular punches.

I think I'll make 4 master jars and 2 children from each. My plan was to go G2G 1->9 G1 and 9->81(max) G2 and make bins from those. Now if I end up with 16 master jars am I better off to make bins from G1 instead?
First masters starting off:


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese] * 1
    #27104826 - 12/23/20 10:10 PM (30 days, 23 hours ago)



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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27104889 - 12/23/20 10:56 PM (30 days, 22 hours ago)

Awesome pictures! :popcorn:


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Re: What happened? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27104963 - 12/23/20 11:59 PM (30 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
Any size wedge would do. I like little triangular wedges, maybe like twice as big as the wedges you are currently using for agar to agar transfers.

Then, I barely crack open the lid of the grain jar and I use the (sterile) inner rim of the jar to get the wedge off the blade and immediately close the lid again.
It's all done very swiftly, this way you ensure you limit the time you expose the media (grains) to a minimum.

Another advantage is, you can inoculate a lot of jars with one single plate by using small wedges.
You can shake when the wedge grows out about an inch in diameter, then shake again at 30% and maybe a last shake later if needed.




This is very helpful info. Everything you said in this thread in spot on.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Awesome pictures! :popcorn:




This should be used as an example of how to take pictures if you want fast and accurate help from others. I shake my head at some of the photos posted here. Its like they never look at the picture before posting. Good job verytastycheese!


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: TheBoJim] * 1
    #27114135 - 12/29/20 02:20 PM (25 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

TheBoJim said:
This should be used as an example of how to take pictures if you want fast and accurate help from others. I shake my head at some of the photos posted here. Its like they never look at the picture before posting. Good job verytastycheese!




Thanks mate! I got a pack of these from Amazon and attached to my shelving and a smart plug to time it all. They're pretty bright but also make for great staging lights. I can understand not everyone has that good of lighting though.

Here are my jars just a few days after their ~30% shake. I figure just a few more days until G2G time.


And here is the culture T5 on the new lower nutrient and thinner poured agar. You can clearly see the struggle and stretch for nutrients. It also grew much faster.


I now have 16 seemingly clean jars and a bunch of clean plates that I'm not sure what to do with but make more master jars? The closer I stick to the seed the better right? Masters take forever to cultivate so I might go to G1 but I'll be making a shoebox with one of the first jars in the meantime.

Time to make a liquid culture?


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27114152 - 12/29/20 02:27 PM (25 days, 6 hours ago)

Take a flashlight and shine it through the side of the plate then look at it from underneath, that will show you where the contaminants are hiding then transfer away from them.


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Professor X]
    #27114463 - 12/29/20 05:28 PM (25 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

Professor X said:
Take a flashlight and shine it through the side of the plate then look at it from underneath, that will show you where the contaminants are hiding then transfer away from them.




Thanks for the advice I'll try that! I'm pretty sure I'm in the clear for now though :smile:


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese] * 1
    #27114465 - 12/29/20 05:28 PM (25 days, 3 hours ago)

Shit looking good dude.
:mostinteresting:


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Onlineverytastycheese
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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex] * 1
    #27129379 - 01/05/21 11:54 PM (17 days, 21 hours ago)

Update:
Did my first G2G in front of the LFH. 3 days in they look to have hit 30%+ already so I shook them. Also made a shoebox the same day just to be sure it pins. It looks great so far just waiting on some actual fruits!



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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27129549 - 01/06/21 02:30 AM (17 days, 18 hours ago)

Nice work dude, whats your sub? Coir verm?


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Re: What happened? [Re: Shr00merN00ber]
    #27129865 - 01/06/21 10:19 AM (17 days, 10 hours ago)

Looks great man! Good progress!


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Re: What happened? [Re: Shr00merN00ber]
    #27130706 - 01/06/21 04:44 PM (17 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Shr00merN00ber said:
Nice work dude, whats your sub? Coir verm?



Yep just CVG with a tiny bucket tek. Just 1:1 with one jar for the shoebox. I don't expect much I just want to see pins and no contams.


Edited by verytastycheese (01/06/21 04:45 PM)


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27136362 - 01/08/21 11:01 PM (14 days, 22 hours ago)

I'm on the edge of my seat!


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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27136629 - 01/09/21 01:43 AM (14 days, 19 hours ago)

You can use tiny amounts per jar. I use agushy 2oz slime containers from Amazon as plates and do 14 quarts per plate.


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27136816 - 01/09/21 06:32 AM (14 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

verytastycheese said:
I'm on the edge of my seat!





Looking good. Can I ask what the plastic bags over your jars are for?


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Re: What happened? [Re: Sockadin]
    #27137197 - 01/09/21 11:29 AM (14 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

Professor X said:
You can use tiny amounts per jar. I use agushy 2oz slime containers from Amazon as plates and do 14 quarts per plate.




Wow great! I was doing 8 per plate plus transfers to 2 new plates.
Ended up with 16 masters all looking amazing. Making 2 full size bins today and going to g2g the rest and make some more masters in the meantime. Thinking the least G2G cycles the better.

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Quote:

verytastycheese said:
I'm on the edge of my seat!





Looking good. Can I ask what the plastic bags over your jars are for?




I live in a very dry climate and can't seem to get the humidity of my room above 40% even with a humidifier using 4L of water per day. I usually find that the tops of the jars dry out before fully colonizing and any uncolonized grains are a contam risk. The bags act as humidity tents and seem to have solved the issue for this round at least :smile:


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27146348 - 01/13/21 07:44 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

So 12 days in and I'm back to scratching my head as to whether these are going to pin.


Also here's what the previous genetics finally did on the petri dish. Is this a fruit?? I never once saw what looked like a pin.



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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27146368 - 01/13/21 07:54 PM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

12 days is not a lot yet, be patient it's looking good. I think you're going to start seeing knots very soon. Next time though, you can add a layer of substrate at spawning, it helps maintain good surface conditions later on.



It looks like a blob, some genetics are prone to blob but it's pretty rare to find one that does it on agar except for some PE varieties. I wouldn't chalk it up to contamination or anything like that becasue the plates you've been posting look very clean.

The fact that it blobbed on agar doesn't necessarily mean that it will do the same in a tub, though.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27146432 - 01/13/21 08:39 PM (10 days, 39 minutes ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
12 days is not a lot yet, be patient it's looking good. I think you're going to start seeing knots very soon. Next time though, you can add a layer of substrate at spawning, it helps maintain good surface conditions later on.




Okay sounds good. The waiting is the hardest part.
Quote:


It looks like a blob, some genetics are prone to blob but it's pretty rare to find one that does it on agar except for some PE varieties. I wouldn't chalk it up to contamination or anything like that becasue the plates you've been posting look very clean.

The fact that it blobbed on agar doesn't necessarily mean that it will do the same in a tub, though.




Interesting, alright. Lots of metabolites on the blob but I suppose that does happen over time even without contams? It's the old genetics, a sibling of what I'm playing with now so it shouldn't matter anyway.


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27146465 - 01/13/21 09:00 PM (10 days, 18 minutes ago)

yea tbh I've never seen a blob on agar producing metabolites but blobs can produce metabolites even without the presence of contamination. Do you happen to have an earlier pic of that plate, this is interesting.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27146473 - 01/13/21 09:05 PM (10 days, 13 minutes ago)

Yep that's this plate:



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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27146486 - 01/13/21 09:12 PM (10 days, 6 minutes ago)

That plate looks fine in my book. Been taking a look at the pics of your spawn and dem jars are looking pretty damn sexy too, you're on your way to a lot of shrooms if you ask me. :hehehe:


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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27147556 - 01/14/21 01:32 PM (9 days, 7 hours ago)

These are the 2nd batch of jars. I didn't bother shaking them at 30% (except a few) because they were so far along by the time I looked. Do you think it's better for myc to not be broken up so many times in it's lifecycle?

Anyway they look good in the jars for 7 days after G2G :smile:


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27147635 - 01/14/21 02:14 PM (9 days, 7 hours ago)

If the mycelium is healthy it'll bounce back.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27148784 - 01/15/21 12:32 AM (8 days, 20 hours ago)

Yeah, shake em as many times as needed. If you have a lot of myc covering only one part of the jar, shake it. If the whole jar seems to be mostly colonized but there's a patch that isn't, shake it. If you're bored, shake it. If you are unsure about the health of your spawn, wait until 100% colonized and shake it, that's gonna tell you things by the way it recovers.

Talking of invitro blobs that produce metabolites without there being contamination, here's a pic of a Brazil culture that I took today from a BRF puck:


I know you have to take my word for it it isn't contaminated, so yeah it isn't lol it's just overgrown and wants to fruit but it isn't liking so much nutrition.


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27148795 - 01/15/21 12:43 AM (8 days, 20 hours ago)




In fact I'd have shook the fuck out of those jar right then and there.

Your shit always looks good dude, dem shroom gods are smiling upon thee.
:pope:


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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27151777 - 01/16/21 06:25 PM (7 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

Josex said:



In fact I'd have shook the fuck out of those jar right then and there.

Your shit always looks good dude, dem shroom gods are smiling upon thee.
:pope:




Well it's about time they smile! I spent a solid year going at this producing pounds and pounds of trich!
I'm not immediately ready to spawn those jars so I'm in no rush for them to finish up, but good to know you have no issues shaking at any time for any reason.

But look! Finally! A solitary pin. Better than I've seen in a while.

Now I just have to figure out how we bulk hydrate coir for steam pasteurization. Are pillowcases still the go-to?


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27152337 - 01/17/21 12:15 AM (6 days, 21 hours ago)

Yeah, I shake around 30% and around 70%. Sometimes I just shake once. Search for bucket tek, no pasteurization or pillowcases unless you're using poo.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27156427 - 01/19/21 12:32 AM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

A wild contam appears?




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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27156633 - 01/19/21 04:22 AM (4 days, 16 hours ago)

Bummerrrrrr


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Re: What happened? [Re: RamJam]
    #27159939 - 01/20/21 06:59 PM (3 days, 2 hours ago)

Still inconsequential, at least I know the genetics will pin. But back to the theory that if you get contams before first flush it must be in your spawn? No chance it was introduced by an imperfect spawning or pasteurization of substrate? What I'm learning here is I probably need to shake my jars more to potentially reveal contams?

Moreover, I should move to liquid. I'll be reading up on your tek Josex.

Here's the jars 3 days after I shook them. At what point would you call them fully colonized and ready to spawn?




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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27160072 - 01/20/21 08:04 PM (3 days, 1 hour ago)

If you are using coir/verm as your substrate I highly doubt the contamination came from there, no matter how you prepped it. I know that other subs like straw or manure need to be properly pasteurized.

I'm still new to growing, but I have been shaking all of my jars at 90% or even 100% just to make sure they are clean before I bother spawning them. I don't see how it could hurt and I'm not in a rush to do anything.

From what I understand, clean spawn will never contaminate your grow.


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Re: What happened? [Re: calmtitty]
    #27160076 - 01/20/21 08:09 PM (3 days, 1 hour ago)

If it's coir verm you can use cold tap water to prep. Yes the mold is in your jars, could be in your culture.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Professor X]
    #27160290 - 01/20/21 10:20 PM (2 days, 22 hours ago)

Is the gypsum relevant? I actually omitted it in my latest monotub run so we'll see if that makes a difference.

If it's in the culture it's the most ninja shit anyone has seen. I'm confident I have clean plates. I'm fairly confident I currently have clean jars. It's possible that a contam got in dropping the wedge into that particular master jar. Either way that doesn't affect the rest of my jars. Hopefully it was the only one. I'll shake them more from now on!


Edited by verytastycheese (01/20/21 10:26 PM)


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27160435 - 01/20/21 11:54 PM (2 days, 21 hours ago)

Gypsum hasn't shown to be beneficial. Unless you throw some in a grain for extra moisture control and nobody hardly does that.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27162164 - 01/21/21 08:52 PM (2 days, 25 minutes ago)

Quote:

Crackatoa said:
Gypsum hasn't shown to be beneficial. Unless you throw some in a grain for extra moisture control and nobody hardly does that.




Wow I swear it was considered essential like 5 years ago haha. Okay I'll knock that off until further notice!


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27162258 - 01/21/21 09:37 PM (1 day, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

verytastycheese said:
A wild contam appears?]






I’m new to this; are you sure that’s contam and not bruising?


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Re: What happened? [Re: Professor X]
    #27163138 - 01/22/21 11:36 AM (1 day, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

Professor X said:
If it's coir verm you can use cold tap water to prep. Yes the mold is in your jars, could be in your culture.



Not 100%. I get verm from a grow store and I've had it carry contams. I've also had gypsum lead to contaminants from that store (added the gypsum after the boiling water in the substrate mix had cooled, 8 tubs down the drain). Some vendors just have contaminated areas. I also once got a pack of stick on lights that I decided to try putting inside my tubs, each one tub that got a light got trich. I didn't think I'd need to wipe down a plastic surface straight out of the packaging but I should have! Trich can hide everywhere. If there's a chunk on the outside of the coir or verm packaging, and you handle that before putting water with it, you're likely to get trich.


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Keep 'em high and tight guys....


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Re: What happened? [Re: Justweed]
    #27163229 - 01/22/21 12:24 PM (1 day, 8 hours ago)

Damn. Sorry to hear about your vendor trich-Trojan horse. I’ve been anal about sanitizing everything that might even come near a clean environment, I guess that’s a carryover from homebrewing. I’ve seen so many people around here toss weeks or months of progress at the first sight of blue/green, at others’ recommendation—and then another will chime in saying it was just bruising or penicillium, and that all would have been fine.

I understand erring on the side of caution with a contam that has the potential to sporulate and quickly ruin an entire room or lab. I guess I need to invest in a microscope next.

:havesomescience:

Keep up the good work.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Justweed]
    #27163266 - 01/22/21 12:41 PM (1 day, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

verytastycheese said:
Still inconsequential, at least I know the genetics will pin. But back to the theory that if you get contams before first flush it must be in your spawn? No chance it was introduced by an imperfect spawning or pasteurization of substrate? What I'm learning here is I probably need to shake my jars more to potentially reveal contams?

Moreover, I should move to liquid. I'll be reading up on your tek Josex.

Here's the jars 3 days after I shook them. At what point would you call them fully colonized and ready to spawn?





Most likely it was your spawn, yes. The good thing about knowing that it's always likely your spawn is that it narrows down the number of plausible vectors so you don't waste time looking into far more unlikely causes (like the coir or "the air", for instance), although it's never smart to rule out anything completely however unlikely.

Coir doesn't need pasteurization at all. Just put it in a bucket with the right amount of boiling water and you're set, Some people use cold tap water too with success but I prefer to boil it first. Also, gypsum is not necessary at all.




I don't like how these jars recovered from the shake, not saying they're totally fucked but they look a bit bacterial to me. The curious thing about shaking at 100% (or nearly) is that it tells you the whole story, warts and all. Maybe the jar was looking good before a shake but it doesn't look so good after it. Bacterial spawn can weaken the colony and this in turn can give mold a chance to get a foothold when spawned, so this is something to consider, although I'm not saying those jars look so bad that they'll likely give ya mold nor am I saying bacterial spawn was the cause of your mold problems.

By all means shake the jars more often. You had some mold in your jars before that looked as if it was introduced via technique. Mold in your jars can easily go unnoticed sometimes but a shake can reveal it.

The things that can get your spawn looking bacterial are a bad prep (too wet or too dry) or an insufficient cycle, your inoculant and your technique.
Your inoculant (agar) looks good to me. Introducing bacteria from technique in your jars is not very likely IMO but it can happen. How's your prep?

I wouldn't think of using LC until you fix your issues first.


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Re: What happened? [Re: Josex]
    #27163301 - 01/22/21 12:54 PM (1 day, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

Josex said:



I don't like how these jars recovered from the shake, not saying they're totally fucked but they look a bit bacterial to me.




Not OP, but curious because my own jars looked similar: can you help me understand what looks bacterial about these? Is it the amount of rhizomorphic/tomentose growth or something more subtle?

Thanks for your help.


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Re: What happened? [Re: openmyc]
    #27165970 - 01/23/21 08:32 PM (46 minutes, 17 seconds ago)

Quote:

openmyc said:
Quote:

Josex said:



I don't like how these jars recovered from the shake, not saying they're totally fucked but they look a bit bacterial to me.




Not OP, but curious because my own jars looked similar: can you help me understand what looks bacterial about these? Is it the amount of rhizomorphic/tomentose growth or something more subtle?

Thanks for your help.




I'm also curious if you could be more specific. Those jars looked the best I've ever seen personally, but I may not have ever seen the holy grail.

Here's a pic from today



Quote:

openmyc said:
Quote:

verytastycheese said:
A wild contam appears?]






I’m new to this; are you sure that’s contam and not bruising?




Nope, it turned to classic trich shortly after. Still popping a few pins slowly, quarantined elsewhere, but dead.


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Re: What happened? [Re: verytastycheese]
    #27165995 - 01/23/21 08:47 PM (31 minutes, 1 second ago)

Sorry to hear it, verytasty. Thanks for updating and helping me learn.

For what it’s worth that jar looks happy and healthy to me. You should be a proud spawn parent. 👶


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Re: What happened? [Re: openmyc]
    #27166020 - 01/23/21 09:05 PM (12 minutes, 54 seconds ago)

Quote:

openmyc said:
Sorry to hear it, verytasty. Thanks for updating and helping me learn.

For what it’s worth that jar looks happy and healthy to me. You should be a proud spawn parent. 👶




I still think it is. I'm hoping it was just the lighting I took the previous picture in, it was a different color temp and might have thrown him off or something. But it still has me head scratching.


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Re: What happened? [Re: openmyc]
    #27166029 - 01/23/21 09:11 PM (7 minutes, 25 seconds ago)

I may be a bit too picky. One thing is for sure, perfect spawn is the hardest thing to achieve in this hobby. I'm not sayin your jars look bad, I actually think they're spawn-able, it's just that I think they look a bit bacterial but not the end of the world.
Myc looks a bit stressed and I don't say that for those rhizos that is shooting out (this can be considered an indication of bacterial spawn in some cases) because your cultures have been throwing out some crazy rhizos on agar too so I don't know what to think about it tbh. They're covering the grains too lightly to my liking to the point they almost look uncolonized, that's the part I like less about those jars.


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