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Offlinetaku
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5gal straw bucket - how much spawn
    #27078387 - 12/08/20 08:38 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Got 6lb bag of blue oyster grain spawn coming in the mail. I only have the ability to make 5gal buckets of straw at the moment. How much grain spawn should I use per bucket?

Thanks!

Oh and also, how long does grain spawn last in the fridge?


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Offlinesendmehummus
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27078541 - 12/08/20 10:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Are you pasteurizing this straw? If so, how? Depending on your potential contaminants will determine how many soldiers you need on the mycelium side to win the war over the straw. If you dont pasteurize Id say the whole 6lbs. If you do, Id say the whole 6lbs. Bc both ways will win and get you mushrooms. Cutting corners and trying to use less with mushroom growing only creates wasted time and money. Just my opinion but feel free to listen to whomevers advice that may chime in. Good luck!


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Offlinetaku
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27078656 - 12/08/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm pasteurizing using a kettle heating up to 170 for 90minutes.  Im trying to figure out the best ratio to get the most mushrooms growing. I thought maybe 2lbs per bucket but thought people might know better.  This is all temporary until I can afford the pressure cooker to start doing blocks and making grain spawn. Baby steps!!


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OfflineZippyHippyinWA
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27078803 - 12/08/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

when i grew out my blue oysters i cold pasteurized straw and went with 1 qt per bucket grain spawn. this is probably overkill as the spawn is very aggressive, but, it was easy and had great results. not to mention the spawn was very cheap as i was expanding my own.


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“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.”
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Offlinetaku
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
    #27078890 - 12/08/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Man i seriously need a pressure cooker. The spawn was incredibly expensive. Had a tough time finding spawn in Canada so shipping killed me

Thanks for the advice. 👍


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OfflineZippyHippyinWA
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27078919 - 12/08/20 03:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm 55 and I have been in this as a hobby or profession or both since I was about 16 (bought a spore print from PF in the back of high times mag). Mostly I run on hillbilly tech. And I mean postal tyvec fucking hillbilly tech. But, the one thing that I have found to be essential is a pressure cooker. Spend the 130 bucks US and be done.
And these forums. Absolutely essential.


Edited by ZippyHippyinWA (12/08/20 03:16 PM)


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Offlinetaku
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
    #27079165 - 12/08/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah it's on my list.  next in line to buy. Sadly I'm seeing prices more like $600+ for 21qt and more $ for bigger. Myco as a hobby has some real price barriers. But damn it seems worth it.

And this forum has already been such a huge boost to my understanding. So helpful 👍


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Edited by taku (12/08/20 06:00 PM)


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OfflineZippyHippyinWA
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27079185 - 12/08/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Wow! I'm in Tucson,AZ and bought my 23 qt replacement Presto off Amazon in April for $130. I had to move here to take care of mom in law who has lupus so I figured I would restart here. Make my desert hell bearable😁
Currently have 9 species going.


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“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.”
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OfflineZippyHippyinWA
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
    #27079197 - 12/08/20 06:14 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)



Edited by ZippyHippyinWA (12/08/20 06:18 PM)


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Offlinetaku
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
    #27079367 - 12/08/20 07:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Oh I am clearly mistaken. Seeing some on amazon.ca for reasonable prices. Must have been looking at the All.American models.

How many.blocks do you fit in your 23qt?

And cool deal about Tucson. My folks moved there about 4 or 5 years back. Really nice area, but damn hot. Check out Southwest Mushrooms from Phoenix.


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OfflinePossum-Pie
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27079908 - 12/09/20 05:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

taku said:
Oh I am clearly mistaken. Seeing some on amazon.ca for reasonable prices. Must have been looking at the All.American models.

How many.blocks do you fit in your 23qt?

And cool deal about Tucson. My folks moved there about 4 or 5 years back. Really nice area, but damn hot. Check out Southwest Mushrooms from Phoenix.




I own the same one, bought it used on Ebay 7-8 years ago.  Will hold 4 5lb bags easily if packed neatly.  I a inverted bowl on the bottom with the metal "floor" piece on top of it to keep the bags out of the water, pack it, then put another inverted bowl on top of them to keep them from blocking the vent hole.


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OfflineZippyHippyinWA
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: Possum-Pie]
    #27082863 - 12/10/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I get 10 qt jars at a time. I tape 3 quarters to the jiggler to keep it at 17lbs and keep my sanity. That's the most I'll allow to protect the seal.


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“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.”
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Offlinetaku
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: ZippyHippyinWA]
    #27082882 - 12/10/20 07:35 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sure what you mean about jiggler sanity. Why 17 instead of 15?


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Edited by taku (12/10/20 08:18 PM)


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Offlinethe man
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27083110 - 12/10/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

cause doesnt turn down temp and it makes alot of noise..jiggler that is. but your right really no need to risk damage to shave a few minutes off.


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27083774 - 12/11/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

taku said:
Got 6lb bag of blue oyster grain spawn coming in the mail. I only have the ability to make 5gal buckets of straw at the moment. How much grain spawn should I use per bucket?

Thanks!

Oh and also, how long does grain spawn last in the fridge?




A quarter to half the volume of straw but you can use less if you want because they like straw.


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: the gooddr6]
    #27083832 - 12/11/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

the gooddr6 said:
Quote:

taku said:
Got 6lb bag of blue oyster grain spawn coming in the mail. I only have the ability to make 5gal buckets of straw at the moment. How much grain spawn should I use per bucket?

Thanks!

Oh and also, how long does grain spawn last in the fridge?




A quarter to half the volume of straw but you can use less if you want because they like straw.





50% spawn rate by volume??

pretty sure with properly treated straw you can get away with 5% spawn by weight and up to 20% is good. beyond that you'll see diminishing returns by adding more spawn.


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Offlinetaku
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: deadmandave]
    #27083893 - 12/11/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I was expecting more on the 5% range, yeah. Do you measure the dry weight or the weight after pasteurization (wet)?


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27084257 - 12/11/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

5% wet weight. With straw you'll want to let your substrate dry off a bit after pasteurizing, whether doing heat or chemical. I let it dry for 8-12 hours or so but you may have different times. At that point straw is usually the right moisture content, about 60%. You can just calculate how much straw to use figuring it will end up at 60% moisture.

if you want to use all 6 lbs at 10% spawn rate, you will have 60 lbs of finished substrate. The amount of dry straw is 40% or 24 lbs.


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: deadmandave]
    #27084289 - 12/11/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I've been draining it for 10 minutes after pasteurization, then letting it cool to 100F before innoculating. I haven't been drying it. Would drying it on screens negate the pasteurization?

This worked for my first bucket where I just layered in an old grow kit. The 1st flush in the bucket was 1 pound. I'm pretty sure that's pathetic for a bucket grow, but it was also under irregular conditions of my diy FC that really was/is just a proof of concept. I didn't weigh the wet straw however. I'll do so for the grab spawn buckets I'll be making up. I'll try 5% of the weight in grain spawn and see how it goes.  I'll have my more legit FC setup by the time these new buckets will pin so should produce more.


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Edited by taku (12/11/20 04:44 PM)


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27084418 - 12/11/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

after pasteurizing the sub is pretty contam resistant for about 2 weeks.  if your choice fungus hasnt colonized it by that point something else will.

inoculating at 100 F is playing with fire, i would let it cool to 75 or 80 before inoculating.


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: deadmandave]
    #27084676 - 12/11/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Duly noted about the contam resistance and inoculation temp. I've got some old screens I can throw it on to cool next time.

And I guess I'll need to weigh a 5gal bucket of pasteurized straw first before throwing in grain spawn. So fill it, weigh it, dump it, layer it. 

Thanks for all the help


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Offlinetaku
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27084763 - 12/11/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Also, side question - does lion's mane pin in a similar way to blue oyster?

I kept my blue oyster bucket in my closet until I saw pins forming, then moved it into my FC. Just curious if lion's mane will do the same.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27086703 - 12/13/20 04:51 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

taku said:
Also, side question - does lion's mane pin in a similar way to blue oyster?

I kept my blue oyster bucket in my closet until I saw pins forming, then moved it into my FC. Just curious if lion's mane will do the same.




No.  Lions mane is a lot more sensitive to pinning invitro if there's any airspace inside the bucket/bag.  It won't just automatically go straight out the holes like oysters.  Eventually it'll get there, but just make sure to get rid of all airspace you can or it wastes a lot of it's fruiting energy filling that space.


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Offlinetaku
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: Forrester]
    #27094985 - 12/17/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I had my bucket fruit about 3-4 weeks ago and nothing has happened since. I've kept it in the FC this whole time. There are a lot of variables, I know, but just want some insight before I pitch the batch.

Was a grow kit after its 2nd flush that broke up.inti pasteurized straw. Pinned after 3 weeks, fruited after 5-6 days in my FC. No pinning since then and I haven't changed anything in my FC. The bucket smells fine, I can't see any contam. Humidity has fluctuated between 50-70%. It's a diy FC that doesn't have the same control my next fc will have.

Should I pitch the batch at this point? Or wait?


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27095127 - 12/17/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Might need to be hydrated. Does the bucket feel light?


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: deadmandave]
    #27095152 - 12/18/20 12:22 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

:whathesaid:

Of course, you are trying for a 4th flush so I would guess it is done.


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (12/18/20 12:23 AM)


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27095614 - 12/18/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I was thinking that too, although the fresh straw should invigorate the culture somewhat. The mycelium has been running for a while now.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: deadmandave]
    #27095665 - 12/18/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Pop the lid off and have a look.


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27095704 - 12/18/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ok that was my thought too, but thought the straw might have it go for a bit longer. Thanks shroomy gang


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27097523 - 12/19/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I went to pull the bucket from my FC and it had pins! They'll probably produce a small flush but I'll take it. 

My grain spawn also finally showed up and I'm prepping to make 2 buckets tonight...hopefully innoculating tonight. 

Can I pasteurize my straw and just leave it to drain overnight? Or do I have to inoculate when it reaches 75ish F?


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27097653 - 12/19/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Each flush will get smaller and smaller.


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27099696 - 12/20/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Just looking ahead at switching over to making blocks and wondering if anyone knows of a good Canadian supplier of bags. Right now Grow mushrooms Canada has the best price for 100 at $0.9022 per bag (including shipping and tax in that cost).
$66.68 for 100 + $4.29 tax + $19.25 shipping. $90.22/100. If I can do 33 blocks per 40lb bag of substrate (as shroomsisay01 attests), then these bags run me $29.78 per bag of substrate. Just wondering if I can get that cost down


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27100901 - 12/21/20 01:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Found out Myers sells unicorn bags for less, even with conversion of USD>CAD because they offer free shipping to Canada


Next question.  I tracked down soy hulls, $27.76 for a 50lb bag.  That's 5 times what I expected.  Can I use wheat bran instead and get similar yield??


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27101130 - 12/21/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

You can use wheat bran but not with similar results. Call feed stores near you $28 for 50 lbs of soy hulls is ridiculous that is $23 more than I pay. It took me a while to find them but it was well worth the effort.  Wheat bran is harder to use and does not give as good of results.


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27101263 - 12/21/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I agree. It sounds incredibly high. The wheat bran is $22 for a 50lb bag so I'm a bit stumped. I contacted a soybean growers association and they informed me that soyhulls are really rare to find in Canada due to most crushing taking place in the Midwest US and abroad. They mentioned that there might be small scale crushers in local hutterite colonies. So I'll see about their prices before giving in to the high price. 

With the cost of soy hulls at ~$28 I can still earn a profit, just obviously less. I think I managed to get the price per bag to about $1.88/5.5lb block.

40 lb Hwfp $8.95 (incl. tax)
50 lb soy hulls $27.76 (inc tax)
33 14A bags $25.19 (inc. tax)

I'm not including electricity, water, or gas for transportation in the cost.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27101705 - 12/21/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Try these places you will have to contact them and see if they have it...

https://www.go4worldbusiness.com/suppliers/canada/soybean-meal.html


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27101713 - 12/21/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)



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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27102157 - 12/22/20 08:24 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

thanks shroomsisay

you're a good detective, just as i was exhausting my list, you found me at least 4 more places. cheers

:beer:


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27102659 - 12/22/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

After exhausting myself calling feed companies, I found one person who can sell.me 200kg for $100. Not even sure how I'd get that home tbh. But they're also switching to pea hulls in the spring. 

Do pea hulls work for growing mushrooms?

Or how about soy meal? I've found distributors of soy meal...


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Edited by taku (12/22/20 03:34 PM)


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: taku]
    #27102692 - 12/22/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

No, you want soyhulls. You better buy enough. 200kg is only like 8 bags (probably give you 8 55 lb bags). So you should be able to get it in your trunk.

That got me to thinking you better ask if they will bag them and if not ask if they have bags that you can buy to bag it yourself. Mine comes in something like reinforced Tyvek bags.


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Re: 5gal straw bucket - how much spawn [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27102709 - 12/22/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

https://www.reddit.com/r/MushroomGrowers/comments/fgyx95/general_question_can_soybean_meal_be_used_in/

If they sell the meal at the same place? I would buy a bag and do a side by side comparison of the hulls and the meal.


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