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GoldenDude
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Grain spawn bottom not colonizing
#27078223 - 12/08/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hello,
I have a grain spawn, which populated very well above bottom inch of the bag. So far i have injected spores to the grain, waited for it to populate 70%+. Then I mixed the bag. Left it to fully populate. After a while - 7days or so after mixing, my bags look like that:

Is something wrong? Should I just wait? Should I do anything to help populate the bottom?
Thanks dear friends
Edited by GoldenDude (12/08/20 05:49 AM)
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anatomality
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing *DELETED* [Re: GoldenDude]
#27078229 - 12/08/20 05:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by anatomality
Reason for deletion: better answers below
-------------------- “The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: anatomality]
#27078230 - 12/08/20 05:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you think, perhaps i could just use the bottom , colonized grain, and toss out the bottom? Instead of throwing out the whole bag?
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anatomality
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing *DELETED* [Re: GoldenDude]
#27078347 - 12/08/20 08:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by anatomality
Reason for deletion: Better answers below
-------------------- “The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”
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Greens21
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: anatomality] 2
#27079032 - 12/08/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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This belongs in Mush Cult, but none of that mycelium is usable. See how it’s thick and creamy, like melted ice cream? That’s a bacterial infection. Mycelium should be fuzzy

If a bag doesn’t recover (fully colonize) quickly (within 2-3 days) after shaking/mixing, it’s a sure sign of contamination (or too-dry grains, which obviously is not the problem here). Fermented grains will colonize just fine; the mycelium has created a “wall” to try to keep further contaminants out of the mycelial structure, which is why it’s no longer colonizing.
Did you purchase these grow bags pre-sterilized? You’ll have much better success rates making your own and doing it properly.
Better luck on your next attempt
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
Edited by Greens21 (12/08/20 04:44 PM)
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Greens21]
#27079879 - 12/09/20 03:57 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greens21 said: This belongs in Mush Cult, but none of that mycelium is usable. See how it’s thick and creamy, like melted ice cream? That’s a bacterial infection. Mycelium should be fuzzy

If a bag doesn’t recover (fully colonize) quickly (within 2-3 days) after shaking/mixing, it’s a sure sign of contamination (or too-dry grains, which obviously is not the problem here). Fermented grains will colonize just fine; the mycelium has created a “wall” to try to keep further contaminants out of the mycelial structure, which is why it’s no longer colonizing.
Did you purchase these grow bags pre-sterilized? You’ll have much better success rates making your own and doing it properly.
Better luck on your next attempt
I have bought these bags pre-sterilized.
Also, I have already shaken these bags once, do you think its ok to shake them again? For the 2nd time?
Can you please refer me to tek you prefer for preparing the grain spawn?
Edited by GoldenDude (12/09/20 03:58 AM)
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mushboy
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing (moved) [Re: GoldenDude]
#27080021 - 12/09/20 07:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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This thread was moved from Psychedelic Medicine, Research & Microdosing .
Reason:
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The Mycologist
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude] 1
#27080045 - 12/09/20 08:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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That spawn isnt healthy. I would just case the bags and top fruit.
Spawning may end the chances of getting any fruits.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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Failboat
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GoldenDude
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Quote:
The Mycologist said: That spawn isnt healthy. I would just case the bags and top fruit.
Spawning may end the chances of getting any fruits.
Can you please re-iterate your sentences?
I am not sure what do you mean.
Can you please explain what you mean by: 1. I would just case the bags and top fruit. 2. Spawning may end the chances of getting any fruits.
Thank you very much
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GoldenDude
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Quote:
The Mycologist said: That spawn isnt healthy. I would just case the bags and top fruit.
Spawning may end the chances of getting any fruits.
Do you think mixing the spawn again, for the 2nd time, could help the colonization and rescue my grain spawn?
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Failboat
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude] 1
#27080254 - 12/09/20 10:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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He's saying to just open the bag from the top and apply a casing. Then just let it fruit from the top. I would put the open cased bag inside a tub.
DO NOT MIX THAT BAG AGAIN.
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The Mycologist
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude]
#27080291 - 12/09/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: He's saying to just open the bag from the top and apply a casing. Then just let it fruit from the top. I would put the open cased bag inside a tub.
DO NOT MIX THAT BAG AGAIN.

Case means put something on top of the grain. Traditionally casing has a certain ph to encourage fruiting, but with psilocybe cubensis, a faux casing of coir works just fine.
Spawning is the act of opening up the grains and mixing them with coir
I advise you keep waiting to see if more colonizes, and when you give up on it reaching 100% colonization, just put a layer of coir on top of the grains and cross your fingers.
It may contam but doing this is a better chance then breaking it up into coir.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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Messiah of Savants
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Do yourself a favor and save yourself some time. Throw that bag away.
There are times you can try spawning bacterial jars and get fruits, but I don't think you are going to get anything from that bag.
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The Mycologist
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Definitely has truth in it too
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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Josex
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Yep that's toast.
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Failboat
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Josex]
#27081299 - 12/09/20 10:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would only keep it if you were absolutely desperate to get spores/tissue samples to continue working.
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Failboat]
#27081905 - 12/10/20 10:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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So i kept these bags for past 6 weeks or so. I have bought them, as i dont have any sterilizer.
I put a lot of effort and money into these bags.
What would happen if i would mix it with bulk substrate? Why I should not mix the bag for the 2nd time?
Why did they turn bad? How can I know next set of grains will not end up the same?
I kept them in a dark wardrobe with temps between 19.5'C and 22'C - sometimes temp grew to 28 when the colonization was most rapid.
Lots of questions, I know, although I think these are valid questions? This way I will learn.
Thank you and peace
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Greens21
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude]
#27081943 - 12/10/20 10:47 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Either the bags themselves were contaminated when you got them, or the syringe was contaminated (though syringes are pretty much always contaminated, which is why most people here recommend growing from agar instead). Your bags look super wet, is there that much water in them when they arrive? Or does it develop that much moisture during colonization?
You’re free to try to get those bags to do something, but they most likely won’t, whatever you do with them. So, either way, you should get your next grow started rather than waiting to see what these do. You asked what would happen if you spawned these to bulk, and the answer is probably nothing. The mycelium is too busy fighting off whatever bacteria is in there to try to spend energy growing and colonizing, so you’ll just end up wasting time and substrate.
If you absolutely have to use a spore syringe to inoculate the next set of bags, keep them in complete blackness for pretty much all of colonization. Wrap them in foil (making sure to leave the gas exchange port uncovered) and stick them in a box or a black/dark storage tub, and don’t check on them, at all, for at least 10 days. While mycelium benefits from light exposure, it doesn’t need the light, and contaminants do. By taking away a source of energy for contaminants you’ll allow your mycelium a chance to get a strong head start/foothold over any contaminants that may exist. Almost every grow I’ve done has been inoculating grain from syringe and I’ve lost zero jars to contamination in 13 years, though I also make my own grain jars.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
Edited by Greens21 (12/10/20 10:54 AM)
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The Mycologist
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Greens21]
#27082145 - 12/10/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mushrooms benefit from light at all times.
We dont try to beat contams we try to not let them in to start with.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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Greens21
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Quote:
Mushrooms benefit from light at all times.
I said this.
Quote:
We dont try to beat contams we try to not let them in to start with.
I also said this. However, everyone doesn’t have the option or means to invest time or money in an agar-based start, so I’m clarifying that contams can be beaten if you don’t have another choice. As I said, in thirteen years I have inoculated hundreds of grain jars from spore syringe and haven’t lost a single one.
So while I definitely recommend agar, I was providing a method that works if agar isn’t an option. And, considering that OP considers the cost of grain bags to be “a lot of money,” that may very well be the case here.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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polaritymind
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Greens21]
#27082705 - 12/10/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Remove the bottom sour part and dont break the healthy part apart. Then put it back in the cleanes bag or a tub and case it for example with coir. Even though technically thats not a casing
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Greens21]
#27083349 - 12/11/20 01:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greens21 said: Either the bags themselves were contaminated when you got them, or the syringe was contaminated (though syringes are pretty much always contaminated, which is why most people here recommend growing from agar instead). Your bags look super wet, is there that much water in them when they arrive? Or does it develop that much moisture during colonization?
You’re free to try to get those bags to do something, but they most likely won’t, whatever you do with them. So, either way, you should get your next grow started rather than waiting to see what these do. You asked what would happen if you spawned these to bulk, and the answer is probably nothing. The mycelium is too busy fighting off whatever bacteria is in there to try to spend energy growing and colonizing, so you’ll just end up wasting time and substrate.
If you absolutely have to use a spore syringe to inoculate the next set of bags, keep them in complete blackness for pretty much all of colonization. Wrap them in foil (making sure to leave the gas exchange port uncovered) and stick them in a box or a black/dark storage tub, and don’t check on them, at all, for at least 10 days. While mycelium benefits from light exposure, it doesn’t need the light, and contaminants do. By taking away a source of energy for contaminants you’ll allow your mycelium a chance to get a strong head start/foothold over any contaminants that may exist. Almost every grow I’ve done has been inoculating grain from syringe and I’ve lost zero jars to contamination in 13 years, though I also make my own grain jars.
Thank you very much for detailed explanation, it make a lot of sense.
"Or does it develop that much moisture during colonization?" - yes, water developed during colonization.
Why so many people use jars, and not bags?
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Greens21]
#27083357 - 12/11/20 01:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greens21 said:
So while I definitely recommend agar, I was providing a method that works if agar isn’t an option. And, considering that OP considers the cost of grain bags to be “a lot of money,” that may very well be the case here.
I pay $18.50 for 1kg bag of sterile grains with gypsum. I suppose thats a lot to anyone for what you get.
Hence I consider investing in PC and possibly jars or bags with air filter and inoculation port, along with buying heat bag sealer.
I dont know which is better and why - bags or jars.
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Lemgrub



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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude]
#27083367 - 12/11/20 02:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenDude said:
I pay $18.50 for 1kg bag of sterile grains with gypsum. I suppose thats a lot to anyone for what you get.
Hence I consider investing in PC and possibly jars or bags with air filter and inoculation port, along with buying heat bag sealer.
I dont know which is better and why - bags or jars.
$70 for a presto 21 qt $30 for 25lb grain, I'm sure there's better prices About a $1 a jar which has many uses $3 for 8 pack of lids
You'll soon find those $18 bags aren't worth it
-------------------- We getting that pirate bay, alien shishkebab cordycep money

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sh4d0ws
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude]
#27083372 - 12/11/20 02:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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You don't need a heat sealer. (zip-ties work)
You will want a pc but it's a worthwhile expense that will last many many years. Even a presto will only need the gasket replaced every so often.
I wouldn't do anything with that bag. And I have spawned some iffy looking bags in my time, even pulling off uncolonized grains to spawn the good stuff, but that is far far beyond gone. I don't think you will get fruits even if you case it as others suggested but I guess you could try it.
Inoculating a bag or even jars of grain with spores is just asking for failure at least 50-75% of the time or more. You should learn agar and go from there. You will be very satisfied when all the bags you grow are healthy. Also doing it yourself will cost a couple dollars vs. $18.50, meaning you will easily pay off your pc in good time.
Because of how new you are, I would recommend trying some jars first anyways. Once you get a system down, move to bags.
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Failboat
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: sh4d0ws]
#27083811 - 12/11/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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For $18.50 at a farm feed store you should find 50lb dry grain of the whole varieties. Get a presto 23qt and ideally a 200qt sterilite to make a SAB and you're ready to rock and roll.
<$20 grain $80 presto 23qt <$20 200qt tub $5 agar agar $10 mini-rounds $25 jars $40 monotubs/shoeboxes $5 scalpels
I'd say in USA you could get everything needed to crush it for ~$200. Most is invested in multipurpose equipment like pressure cooker, jars, and tubs. Just gotta get more grain over time. Sure it's 10x the bag of presterilized grain, but it's value is astronomically high compared to 10x. Not everyone has $200 and time, but if you do...
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Failboat]
#27083939 - 12/11/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank yo so much for your good words 
Unfortunately i Live in UK, and here, well, in US its Eldo Rado with buying all the good equipment. In UK, no so much. Presto pressure cooker - non existent. I can import it, sure, it will cost about 45£ for the shipping and customs In the end, Presto 23qt in UK is about £150+import charges = $233. If Presto 23 is the only way, I may consider buying it, but with heavy hart.
I would highly appreciate if you, kind people, would send me links to the equipment to UK Amazon or any other UK source of goodies.
If i could, I would pay you for the effort 
Can you please explain, or provide examples of the below, as I am not sure what you mean by these, i googled around and I couldn't find anything conclusive. - 200qt tub - agar agar - mini-rounds - monotubs/shoeboxes
I would love to learn and start using agar, can you, pretty please, suggest best tek for that? What gear would I need for agar?
My wife and I love mushrooms, they fascinate us. I would love to grow Lions Mane and other rare species. Hoping in the future i could leave corpo life and open my own business 
Recently we collected some wild Turkey Tail mushrooms
Edited by GoldenDude (12/11/20 12:42 PM)
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude]
#27086034 - 12/12/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Could someone please share their wonderful knowledge please
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sandman420
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude]
#27086102 - 12/12/20 05:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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-200qt tub is a 200 quart sized tote such as this https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-200-Qt-189-L-Stacker-Box-Taupe-Splash/475349461
-agar agar is a powder that is much like gelatin. I like https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NBFG17C/
-mini rounds are small plastic containers typically used to store food, but people use them to do agar in a jar without pouring in a petri. Brand, shape, size vary locally. Such as Glad mini round brand https://www.amazon.com/Glad-Rnd-Plas-Cntnr-4Oz/dp/B00B1W72W0/. Basically you poke a hole in the lid, slap a few layers of micropore tape over the hole, add your agar recipe to the container, pressure cook, and you have a a self contained agar plate to culture with that you didn't have to pour traditionally.
-Monotubs are made by mixing grain spawn and a bulk substrate in a large clear tote, generally 60-100qt size tote. Shoeboxes are the same thing just in much smaller plastic containers called shoeboxes. People often put a bunch of shoeboxes inside a larger 200 qt tote for example, to make a fruiting environment https://www.shroomology.org/uploads/monthly_2016_10/13.jpg.92f25f16f8c078652dac3602cc41f1ff.jpg.
absolutely spend the 200 pounds or whatever on the presto dont fuck with bullshit 6psi euro shit cookers!
just random pictures i googled i know one is from some fuck site but whatever.
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: sandman420]
#27086731 - 12/13/20 05:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sandman420 said: -200qt tub is a 200 quart sized tote such as this https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-200-Qt-189-L-Stacker-Box-Taupe-Splash/475349461
-agar agar is a powder that is much like gelatin. I like https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NBFG17C/
-mini rounds are small plastic containers typically used to store food, but people use them to do agar in a jar without pouring in a petri. Brand, shape, size vary locally. Such as Glad mini round brand https://www.amazon.com/Glad-Rnd-Plas-Cntnr-4Oz/dp/B00B1W72W0/. Basically you poke a hole in the lid, slap a few layers of micropore tape over the hole, add your agar recipe to the container, pressure cook, and you have a a self contained agar plate to culture with that you didn't have to pour traditionally.
-Monotubs are made by mixing grain spawn and a bulk substrate in a large clear tote, generally 60-100qt size tote. Shoeboxes are the same thing just in much smaller plastic containers called shoeboxes. People often put a bunch of shoeboxes inside a larger 200 qt tote for example, to make a fruiting environment https://www.shroomology.org/uploads/monthly_2016_10/13.jpg.92f25f16f8c078652dac3602cc41f1ff.jpg.
absolutely spend the 200 pounds or whatever on the presto dont fuck with bullshit 6psi euro shit cookers!
just random pictures i googled i know one is from some fuck site but whatever.
Thank you so much for explanations and links 
Presto 23qt just ordered from Las Vegas 
One more thing, is "tote = tub"?
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Greens21
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: GoldenDude]
#27086982 - 12/13/20 09:11 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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“Tote” just means something that you use to carry something else in. So a tub is a type of tote, but also so is a bag. But yes, in this case it means tub
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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GoldenDude
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Re: Grain spawn bottom not colonizing [Re: Greens21]
#27087000 - 12/13/20 09:20 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greens21 said: “Tote” just means something that you use to carry something else in. So a tub is a type of tote, but also so is a bag. But yes, in this case it means tub
Thank you
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