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Jester4all
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Registered: 12/07/20
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Where did I go Wrong? *DELETED*
#27077018 - 12/07/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by Jester4all
Reason for deletion: Some relevant info, but I do t think reading my post is going to be that helpful for other users.
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Tattersail



Registered: 04/11/18
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Jester4all] 1
#27077086 - 12/07/20 12:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hi and welcome 
Sorry to hear your first few attempts haven't gone to plan, but hopefully people on here can get you on your way to success. I'm not particularly experienced as a grower but I'll give what limited advice I can.
First, I think you might be unclear about what grain spawn and bulk substrates are. Don't worry, it all confused the hell out of me when I started out, but as you move through the processes it quickly becomes clear.
Basic process is:
Spores >> agar >> grains >> bulk substrate
Grain spawn (bird seed, whole oats, rye, millet, etc) are nutritious grains that you inoculate, preferably with a clean culture grown on agar. Once this is colonised, you would then mix it with bulk substrate (this is your coir and verm etc) which gives an extra water source and surface area for mushrooms to grow. What kind of grain did you use for your first attempts? Or was it just brown rice flour and verm?
Grains usually need to be sterilised for much longer than an hour. 90 minutes minimum at 15psi, but 2 hours may be a better bet.
A bag of poo, verm and coir isn't going to grow much at all. There's not really any nutrition in there like there is in grain.
If you haven't already read lots of tek threads, there's a list here Read lots, and make a plan for your next attempt.
Pastywhytes easy agar tek will have you on your way to getting a clean culture. Some do inject spores directly to grains but it is not a reliable practice, good chance that contamination will wreak havoc on your grow.
I use mason jars with polyfil stuffed into a small hole in the lid for airflow. I'm not sure about bags but I'd say the failure was more due to your ingredients and process than a lack of airflow.
If the PF cakes were contaminated then they may have struggled to colonise the bulk substrate. Did you inoculate them in an SAB?
-------------------- LAGM2021 Trades We may lose or we may win, but we'll never be here again
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Blazer Man
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Tattersail]
#27077092 - 12/07/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would give BRF cakes a try... They are easy to inoculate and get going. I failed twice at bulk, downsized my project, read more threads and had success. Good luck!
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Smoo
Old Soul



Registered: 11/02/20
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Blazer Man]
#27077103 - 12/07/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Start here
Read read read. Trial and error I guess as well...
I've tried alot of different teks. I personally like jars better than bags. And for a while now I use wild bird seed as my spawn. G2G transfer two out of my twelve jars (how you buy the jars, lot of 12). My bulk substrate is just coco coir and vermiculite. Spawn to monotub.
Just read as much as you can and figure out what will work best for you. WBS can be a pain when you're getting it ready for sterilization, but to me it's worth it, I've never had a contamination since I moved into my own home. (Used to live in an apartment and had 2 jars that went bad once, but I know why, I had to rush, girl at the time didn't like what I was doing.)
Good luck mate!
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Jester4all
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Tattersail]
#27077351 - 12/07/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey there So the first batch a used vermiculite and brown rice flour. I inoculated them in a still room after spraying down with isopropyl. I used tinfoil as the lid with 4 small holes, and then another layer on top, which i only removed to inject. They steamed for around an hour. I used a lighting to get the needle red hot between injections. All 6 jars were clean healthy looking mycelium with no contam. They took 3 weeks or so, but they were in about 17-18c degree So after a lot of reading how to do bulk substrate, i decided to try a monotub, mixed the cakes with the substrate, and for a little while it looked okay.
I got a bit carried away with my grain spawn and added brown rice flower and vermiculite. I figured if they worked well for the first few jars, then mixing them with grain couldn't hurt. That could have been a big mistake. Anyway, i steamed for an hour and then let cool, inoculated using sterile conditions, and stored them in a tub with isopropyl sprayed on them. They all fermented a lot and smelled like a strong cider. One of them looked like there was signs of life and i mixed it up, and it didn't recover and still smells like cider.
One of the PF Tek caked i birthed i soaked for 12 hours and rolled in coir and set fruiting conditions. I got some small fruits, but nothing substantial. Fuzzy feet, so i think my FAE was off.
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Jester4all
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Blazer Man]
#27077354 - 12/07/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey man, yeah i tried that first and it worked for me. There was loads of room for improvement, but it seems like a very simple method.
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Jester4all
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Smoo]
#27077362 - 12/07/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cheers bud! Yeah i am in the beginning stages where all the info is making my head spin. I saw loads of people saying white millet seed is better than rye for inoculations points. I'll get there. Just going to have to keep trying until i get a rhythm!
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Tattersail



Registered: 04/11/18
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Jester4all]
#27077373 - 12/07/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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The grain spawn, did you just steam cook those jars or did you use a pressure cooker? If you used a pressure cooker, the grains need more time than a hour. If you steamed them in a regular pot, then maybe that's the issue.
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Sir Pentinite
Stranger all the time.

Registered: 05/15/19
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Jester4all] 1
#27078008 - 12/07/20 11:46 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Jester4all said: Where did I got wrong?
There are a lot of places, but the main issue is from winging it through the whole process instead of reading, understanding, and closely following one (and only one) of the current teks linked at the top of the forum. Don't combine teks, don't cut corners, don't try to experiment when you're just starting out. When searching the forum limit it to posts from the last five years or so to get the most up-to-date discussions. Do those things and you'll be golden.
-------------------- "I thought to myself 'Boy, I'm sure glad there's nobody here to see this because this is exactly the sort of thing that gets people riled-up and they assume you're dying and that something has to be done. Where if you're alone, you know, you either come through it or you die, but in any case you avoid the fuss.'" - Terrence McKenna
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Sold Out Online
Stranger Danger



Registered: 09/05/20
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I may be reading wrong, and I am not a successful grower, but:
1) you say you “steamed” your substrate. It needs to be pressure cooked.
2) you say you sprayed your substrate with isopropyl? That could kill it. I accidentally sprayed some nascent oyster mushrooms with isopropyl recently. They died.
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Threads that have been useful to me: Clean Spawn checklist for new growers
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Jester4all
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Yeah i think you are right sir! the first attempt i followed PF Tek to the letter and i had some success. I think from there i got carried away. I just want to get grain spawn right! I'm going to give it a go using proven recipes and see what happens.
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Brian Jones
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Registered: 12/18/12
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Quote:
cdnpsychonaught said: I may be reading wrong, and I am not a successful grower, but:
1) you say you “steamed” your substrate. It needs to be pressure cooked.
2) you say you sprayed your substrate with isopropyl? That could kill it. I accidentally sprayed some nascent oyster mushrooms with isopropyl recently. They died.
You don't pressure cook substrate. You pressure cook grains.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Stranger Danger



Registered: 09/05/20
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Even with hpoo?
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Threads that have been useful to me: Clean Spawn checklist for new growers
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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You pasteurize manure. You don't sterilize it. I've never done pasteurization because I use coir, but the idea is to leave beneficial bacteria alive. The objective with pressure cooking is to kill all microorganisms.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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bepic
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Jester4all]
#27080330 - 12/09/20 11:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Please help
4 days after 12h water submergion some yellow/orange parts apeared. I did everything like in the kit instructions. It was all white before. The pictures are with flash and without the color is somewhere in-between but more like in the no flash photos
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Blazer Man
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: bepic]
#27080415 - 12/09/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is contam. I would set this far away from any other experiments if you do not want to toss it. Just my two cents...
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Jester4all
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Re: Where did I go Wrong? [Re: Jester4all]
#27087271 - 12/13/20 01:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the feedback guys!
I’ve Learned a few good things from here. I got a couple of flushes from my first PF Tek cakes, and have taken a few spore prints. I followed some of RR’s write ups to make a few spore syringes and have followed WBS grain tech more or less to the letter. Soaked for 18-24 hours (I did 20), rinsed thoroughly till clear; boiled water and added to seeds; let stand for a bit then drained and put in trays till dry to the tough and not leaving damp on tissues. Loaded jars and PC’ed for 9 Min's with stove top pressure cooker. Followed sterile procedure in still air box to inject jars through self healing port, so now just the waiting game. I got 10 jars going in average temp of 18-20c. I’ll post pics when something starts happening.
Edited by Jester4all (09/10/21 01:36 PM)
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