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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075541 - 12/06/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

No study proving the cocktail didn't work?  You were just make believing?

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Fal you constantly day "the science" as if you're the best at researching and comprehending research articles.



No, I'm asking if you have evidence that the cocktail wouldn't work, and the answer appears to be "no".

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
As if all of us are more dumb and mislead than you are.



If you're saying it won't work without evidence, then you ARE being misled.  Now where's that study you said exists?

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I hope you don't sincerely think you're all alone and only you ham and leningrad know anything about "the science".



I don't anything about the science, my dude.  That's why I'm asking you for a link to just one of the "abundance of highly compelling articles" showing the cocktail wouldn't work.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075549 - 12/06/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=hydroxychloroquine+efficacy+covid-19

Of all those their ones touting hcq and hcq + zinc and other drugs are from questionable publications. And the majority that show no efficacy are reputable

The reviews would be good places to start. Of all the stuff convalescent plasma seemed far nore promising than the drug cocktails and even that ended up showing little to no efficacy overall.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075552 - 12/06/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075554 - 12/06/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The only reason falcon cares about this topic is he’s hoping to own the libtards who doubted trump.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075557 - 12/06/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27075558 - 12/06/20 03:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
This is not sound science. The treatment arm consisted of hand picked patients, while the “control” arm were patients selected from database of covid patients.

A proper study you enroll participants and a separate body from the people running the study randomly selects patients to either receive or not receive the treatment. Only at the end of the study period do the researchers learn which patients received the treatment and which didn’t. Their outcomes are compared. This study is comparing to groups that not only had different treatments, but were recruited using different methods and were treated in different settings.

Why didn’t they take their 141 patients who agreed to participate and randomly assign half of them to be controls?



Again, my question is how do know it won't work?  Is there another study that looked into this the way you prefer?  That's my question to both you and bodhisatta.

Edit:  I see bodhisatta posted some links.  I'll take a look at those...


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075561 - 12/06/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772922

Looking more and more like someone didn't even try.

Also way more sad that only one pro hcq study has managed so sneak by peer review in all this time


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075565 - 12/06/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

Need more hand holding?



Quote:

bodhisatta said:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v2



These studies did not include zinc, which Zelenko said was important.  Do you have one with the cocktail in question (hydrochloroquine, azithromycin, and zinc sulfate)?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075568 - 12/06/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772922

Looking more and more like someone didn't even try.

Also way more sad that only one pro hcq study has managed so sneak by peer review in all this time



This didn't include zinc either.  Keep trying.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27075573 - 12/06/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The only reason falcon cares about this topic is he’s hoping to own the libtards who doubted trump.



I actually don't care about the study, and I don't care if it the findings are proven wrong.

My point is that you (and now bodhisatta) are claiming this isn't going to work before the studies are done.  That's not science, that's TDS.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075574 - 12/06/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial from Skipper and colleagues was conducted in 423 outpatients (not in the hospital) with early COVID-19. It was published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in July 2020.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-4207

Patients received oral hydroxychloroquine (800 mg once, followed by 600 mg in 6 to 8 hours, then 600 mg daily for 4 more days) or a placebo (inactive treatment).
Researchers found that over a 14 day period a change in symptom severity and the percent of patients with ongoing symptoms did not differ significantly between groups, signaling no effect from the hydroxychloroquine treatment.
However, side effects were significantly greater in the group receiving hydroxychloroquine compared to placebo (43% hydroxychloroquine versus 22% placebo (P < 0.001). Rates of hospitalizations and deaths did not differ significantly.
In contrast, a retrospective, observational study conducted from March to early May of 2020 did report a positive effect with hydroxychloroquine on hospitalized patient mortality, used alone and with azithromycin when compared to no treatment. The study was published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases in August 2020. Authors note a limitation to their analysis was the retrospective, non-randomized, non-blinded study design.

Researchers looked at 2,541 patients, with a median total hospitalization time of 6 days.
Mortality, by treatment, was 20.1% for hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin, 13.5% for hydroxychloroquine alone, 22.4% for azithromycin alone, and 26.4% for neither drug (p < 0.001). The primary cause of death was respiratory failure in 88% of patients.
Adjunct therapy with corticosteroids (methylprednisolone and/or prednisone) and anti-IL-6 tocilizumab was provided in 68% and 4.5% of patients, respectively.
Factors such as greater glucocorticoid use in the hydroxychloroquine groups and the nonrandomized study design suggested this data may be flawed and that prospective, randomized controlled studies were needed to validate these results.




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Onlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075576 - 12/06/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Poorly designed studies pass peer review all the time.

What I don’t understand is how this Zelenko had months and months to run a proper double blinded controlled study, but instead decided to do this garbage which amounted to treating his patients like he always does and comparing his results to data he got off the internet.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075578 - 12/06/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quack scientist says uhhhhh how about adding zinc that's the secret. Well fuck I'm not holding any hope out with their track record


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075579 - 12/06/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Give it a couple months and zinc will be in the same boat too


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27075590 - 12/06/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

How is zinc supplementation the key if most people already get plenty of zinc in their diet to begin with?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27075591 - 12/06/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial from Skipper and colleagues was conducted in 423 outpatients (not in the hospital) with early COVID-19. It was published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in July 2020.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-4207

Patients received oral hydroxychloroquine (800 mg once, followed by 600 mg in 6 to 8 hours, then 600 mg daily for 4 more days) or a placebo (inactive treatment).
Researchers found that over a 14 day period a change in symptom severity and the percent of patients with ongoing symptoms did not differ significantly between groups, signaling no effect from the hydroxychloroquine treatment.
However, side effects were significantly greater in the group receiving hydroxychloroquine compared to placebo (43% hydroxychloroquine versus 22% placebo (P < 0.001). Rates of hospitalizations and deaths did not differ significantly.
In contrast, a retrospective, observational study conducted from March to early May of 2020 did report a positive effect with hydroxychloroquine on hospitalized patient mortality, used alone and with azithromycin when compared to no treatment. The study was published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases in August 2020. Authors note a limitation to their analysis was the retrospective, non-randomized, non-blinded study design.

Researchers looked at 2,541 patients, with a median total hospitalization time of 6 days.
Mortality, by treatment, was 20.1% for hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin, 13.5% for hydroxychloroquine alone, 22.4% for azithromycin alone, and 26.4% for neither drug (p < 0.001). The primary cause of death was respiratory failure in 88% of patients.
Adjunct therapy with corticosteroids (methylprednisolone and/or prednisone) and anti-IL-6 tocilizumab was provided in 68% and 4.5% of patients, respectively.
Factors such as greater glucocorticoid use in the hydroxychloroquine groups and the nonrandomized study design suggested this data may be flawed and that prospective, randomized controlled studies were needed to validate these results.






That one's missing azithromycin.  Keep trying...


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27075593 - 12/06/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Poorly designed studies pass peer review all the time.

What I don’t understand is how this Zelenko had months and months to run a proper double blinded controlled study, but instead decided to do this garbage which amounted to treating his patients like he always does and comparing his results to data he got off the internet.



So no study proving it wouldn't work?  You're just hoping it won't because Trump said it might?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27075594 - 12/06/20 04:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
How is zinc supplementation the key if most people already get plenty of zinc in their diet to begin with?



Do they get as much as the cocktail recommends?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: HamHead]
    #27075596 - 12/06/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Prophylactic: intended to prevent disease

Again, HQ was touted for months as a prophylactic measure, trump himself
was taking it without having corona virus as a prophylactic measure. Didnt help




Had he continued with a single 200mg dose once per week, he may not have caught the Rona.

Here's this

Hydroxychloroquine also reduces the release of cytokines like interleukin-1 and tumor necrosis factor, possibly through inhibition of Toll-like receptors.[A183074,A198852] The raised pH in endosomes, prevent virus particles (such as SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2) from utilizing their activity for fusion and entry into the cell.[A191625] Hydroxychloroquine inhibits terminal glycosylation of ACE2, the receptor that SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 target for cell entry.[A191628,A191625] ACE2 that is not in the glycosylated state may less efficiently interact with the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, further inhibiting viral entry.[A191625]

Quote:

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Sometimes antibiotics are given as preventative. Ciprofloxacin was given during the gulf war as an anthrax preventative.




So, you don't necessarily disagree with Zelenko when he administered azithromycin as a preventive antibiotic?



What made you come to that conclusion?


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27075597 - 12/06/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Poorly designed studies pass peer review all the time.

What I don’t understand is how this Zelenko had months and months to run a proper double blinded controlled study, but instead decided to do this garbage which amounted to treating his patients like he always does and comparing his results to data he got off the internet.



So no study proving it wouldn't work?  You're just hoping it won't because Trump said it might?




What the fuck does this have to do with trump?


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