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OfflineSleepyE
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(Bullshit * 1
    #27075208 - 12/06/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

( Bullshit)



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My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 06:50 PM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 4
    #27075332 - 12/06/20 01:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I've never heard of DMT destroying 5-HT(X) receptors in the brain. One would think that DMT use would cause depression as a side effect if that was so, but that's not really what we see.

It is powerful stuff though and unless you are prepared mentally, and of the right mind type, it's  certainly dangerous. I share mushrooms and acid without hesitation, but there's only a select few who I share DMT with. Even sometimes those people have not heeded my warnings on something I've made and given them, had their asses handed to them, metaphorically speaking.

With a person who has a poor low level reality check a single high dose of DMT could leave them spinning for months. How to establish how well a person is grounded truly though? I can understand that no doctor would want to risk that sort of fallout in a research program. Maybe when the brain is understood better. Until then I'd have to agree with Dr Collard, far too dangerous for general use.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner]
    #27075342 - 12/06/20 01:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:06 PM)


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 5
    #27075406 - 12/06/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

This guy is talking out of his ass. Me personally, i noticed no negatives from daily/near daily dosing of oral DMT for 4 years straight. Cannabis caused me more of an issue than Aya ever did. And just based on my common sense and in my experience and what i know about DMT, this guy is totally wrong about DMT.


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OfflineSleepyE
DMT is metaphysical
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Sabnock]
    #27075415 - 12/06/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:06 PM)


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27075429 - 12/06/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

All i know is, the most i get on oral DMT is amplification of things, sometimes in a more negative way like noises become enhanced and can get me on edge or i can get some paranoia, but as far as my mind and headspace goes, totally clear, sober-like, never mind bending, i wouldn't say i've ever "hallucinated", i just enter into different states of consciousness, nothing delusional, nothing illusory, i mean people can say these states we enter where we have these realizations and understandings and gnosis is some sort of delusion/illusion, but imo, only someone who hasn't been there would say that. Not to say that someone else wouldn't fall into some sort of delusion/illusion, just that i haven't. As for the synchronicities and some other magickal things that occur, i just find it interesting and funny and i entertain it, but i don't ever attribute more to it than it being an interesting phenomena. Similar to how anytime i'm on mushrooms my computer or electronics start glitching out, yet that never happens on other Entheogens for me. Or, how about the time i had the precognitive vision about my dad's death 2 weeks before he died and everything i saw in the vision i also saw in reality when it happened? That delusion too? Lol. No one can convince me that what all i've experienced is false, i'm the judge of my own experiences and i'm sane and sober and aware and intelligent enough to decide for myself and come to my own conclusions, i'm not out to convince anyone, i know it's real, if someone out there doesn't understand then they simply haven't been there themselves imo. It's good to be skeptical and discerning, but also open and receptive, put things to the test, see what sticks, that's my motto.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #27075433 - 12/06/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:06 PM)


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27075454 - 12/06/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Now I'm not a professional and I haven't done DMT, so my opinion is pretty low-import, but most of what he said sounds reasonable from a scientists perspective. DMT destroying 5-HT(X) receptors in the brain is something I hadn't heard before, but his claim that DMT is too dangerous for study seems bold considering it has been used in studies... to my knowledge without causing massive lasting damage.

I think he may be right that you personally should avoid use, I know it's not a popular opinion on the shroomery but I actually think psychosis prone individuals probably should avoid psychedelics. Maybe they work out for some of them, and I understand the urge to counter drug-war propaganda, but I don't believe exposure to psychedelics is inherently positive or useful.

The way I see it (as a complete layman who has tripped on LSD and mushrooms but never studied them, and also as someone who has never experienced psychosis) they can be tools, but they won't benefit everyone and they can actively harm some if used incorrectly. I think there is a lot of 'faith' in the positive or truthful power of these substances and some of that faith can be misplaced. 

That said, from what I understand, many healthy people do DMT without negative consequences -I've known many people who used it repeatedly without ever experiencing psychosis or delusions, most of them didn't interpret the experience as meeting with entities either, but more as abstract sensory experiences.

Psychosis is no joke though, and the thing is if you are prone to psychosis psychedelic use can be very dangerous (a friend of mine nearly drowned on LSD during a psychotic fit, and he was only ok because he tripped with myself and another friend, and we were not divorced from reality in the way he was). Not to say you don't know yourself either, but psychotic people aren't the best judge of whether they are being rational, and I've certainly encountered many delusional psychedelic users who were basically committing self harm thinking they were on a spiritual journey.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27075465 - 12/06/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
i definitely get where you are coming from, i dont care if its magical or not, i am just interested in mapping out the visionary territory.
He seems to think i can do this work without consuming DMT but in order to map out the visionary elements and form constants i need to umm... see it.




if you don't have adverse effects, and you feel it is benefiting you, then probably its fine to use DMT. I would say that periods of abstinence -preferably from all psychedelics- are probably a good idea though just to 'check in' and see how you really feel about it all, as I know I've personally been obsessed with psychedelics for long stretches where I essentially tripped habitually, and got very little out of it.

I don't deny that there is a lot to be gained from psychedelic use either, I would just caution that in this community its common to see the substances themselves treated as infallible deities that know what's best for everyone. I haven't found that to be the case, but I also haven't done DMT yet so we'll see ha


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27075468 - 12/06/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:06 PM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27075472 - 12/06/20 03:03 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:07 PM)


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OfflineJonBa
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma] * 2
    #27075479 - 12/06/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

DMT saved my life, but I would have a hard time recommending it to anyone for any reason.
I'm not sure if this guy is right, especially since he's saying a lot of stuff that I have never heard anyone else say before, but I would suggest he's right in general discouragement. At the very least it's powerful enough that I would never want the responsibility of somebody going and taking it by my advice.
When people in other settings talk about it I usually say "I couldn't recommend it to be honest."

Especially if you are prone to psychosis it's probably a good idea not to take any subtance lightly, even a lot of over the counter stuff.


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Life saved by DMT


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27075501 - 12/06/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I think you have a good low level reality check though. Having first hand experience with the states you can get into means you have better coping abilities. As a long term user you've no doubt seen the states people can get themselves into. It's not something you can be talked out of either, you just have to snap/work out of it yourself. I don't think there's a four part lecture people can attend that will give them that knowledge, well certainly not the skill to apply it in real time.

Imagine as a researcher dealing with potentially negative reintegration periods that could last a year or more, sounds like a monumental cluster fuck.

But just say, for example, that you do manage to get 20 experienced and self grounding DMT users together for any sort of study, what good would the data be anyway? There might be some neuroscience there to be looked at but medical application would be extremely limited.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: JonBa]
    #27075504 - 12/06/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:07 PM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #27075510 - 12/06/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:22 PM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27075514 - 12/06/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:22 PM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27075535 - 12/06/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
i make sure im safe now. i lost a lot of my balls of steel i had in my honey moon psychonaut phase,

i dose lsd type compounds lately because its generally much weaker than 4-acodmt or dmt experience wise



Yeah me too, LSD all the way. Funny enough once I'm in that place is when I get the idea and start smoking changa and munching shrooms.  :lol:


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27075538 - 12/06/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
i definitely get where you are coming from, i dont care if its magical or not, i am just interested in mapping out the visionary territory.

He seems to think i can do this work without consuming DMT but in order to map out the visionary elements and form constants i need to umm... see it.




I agree. Whether it's magickal or not, it still exists, it's still there, we can still map it, maybe even understand it. As i like to say, knowing how something works doesn't make it any less magickal imo. As Terence said, “Matter is not lacking in magic, matter is magic.". Just because something may be explained or known, doesn't mean it's any less magickal. It's amazing that life as it is, Humans and other life forms, Nature, our planet, space, everything we know is magick whether we figure it out or not.

And definitely, we need to see it, we need to experience it, we need to learn about and from it, we need to map it, we need to understand it. There may always be something we can't see or know or understand or figure out, but compared to what little we know, there's so much more that we can know imo.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner]
    #27075542 - 12/06/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:22 PM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Sabnock] * 2
    #27075548 - 12/06/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:22 PM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27075562 - 12/06/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't had a 100mg rip of changa for maybe 2 years, which was my go to dose for so long. But the other week while on acid I had maybe 5 X 50mg hits in a row slowly pushing deeper and deeper into that place. There was no fear or darkness. I didn't think I was dead, it was just a series of mini movies of fantastical images. Was pretty pleased with how it went actually.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner]
    #27075567 - 12/06/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:04 PM)


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27075569 - 12/06/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah as with anything, weigh the possible risks against the possible benefits. Me personally, seen no risks at all for me, aside from it just being intense and powerful stuff and needing to be able to handle it. But i can see where for some people it'd be risky. I've seen nothing but benefits from it. Man, i really miss my experimentation though, best time of my life for damn sure lol. One day i hope to get back to it again.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Sabnock]
    #27075571 - 12/06/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:04 PM)


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27075575 - 12/06/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Can you please link to his original paper OP.


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Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: pineninja] * 1
    #27075584 - 12/06/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:05 PM)


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 5
    #27075696 - 12/06/20 04:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Im quite confused.. he says they have to give the H+A cocktail (halo and ativan) to patients who are trying to kill nurses and doctors etc. etc. because they are so high on DMT.  But DMT is so short lived, there's no way one could smoke it, get to the hospital, be put in a bed and still be tripping.  And he never mentioned MAOI's, and the whole other potential world that opens up.  He also says they never gave anyone DMT for tests.

So where is this experience he's having at the children's hospital treating young adults for DMT "overdoses" coming from?  This whole article has so many holes in it.

I'm also not a DMT freak by any means, and I absolutely believe that it causes long term changes in people who abuse it a lot.  I've met people who have smoked so much DMT they are absolutely out of touch and have a very "cold, spacelike, far away" demeanor to them.  So it definitely causes long term effects.  Are these negative or beneficial?  I don't know, all these people are poly users, so it's hard to tell.

Anyway, I'd like to see the research that shows all these claims he's making about the receptor sites and their functioning.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Typerwritermonky] * 1
    #27075723 - 12/06/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:05 PM)


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Offlinejdawg333
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27075760 - 12/06/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Some people that are incredibly intelligent have very backwards views about some things. I know some very intelligent people, especially intelligent with biological and medical stuff, and they will say stuff about psychedelics that is clearly just based on intuition. Stuff like 'no, it can drive you insane, in fact my friends told me they knew a guy who... (insert acid urban legend repeated by kids since the 60s)'

I would trust the people who have done extensive work with DMT over this guy. I rarely fear taking psychedelics because so many beautiful minds have enjoyed them and exited just as eloquent and intelligent and compassionate as before, if not then with these traits deepened.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: jdawg333] * 2
    #27075764 - 12/06/20 05:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:05 PM)


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 7
    #27075802 - 12/06/20 05:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Just because he's a neuroscientist doesn't prevent him from spouting nonsense or speaking to something with which he has no direct knowledge or experience.  My advice is to take what he said with a grain of salt.


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All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Nature Boy]
    #27075810 - 12/06/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:05 PM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Nature Boy] * 3
    #27075867 - 12/06/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I've taken 100s of DMT doses, 1000's of doses of other psychedelics, 10,000's of doses of stimulants and I'm definitely not head fucked. I still study consistently, work a highly technical job, am a home owner, a carer for a disabled family member, a parent for 3 teenagers... yet somehow I'm supposed to be brain damaged? Heck, you wouldn't even know I take psychedelics unless I tell you.

Just doesn't seem to add up. Or neuroscience isn't all that it thinks it is. Or I was fucking Einstein beforehand and my shocking poly drug use over the last 25 years has made me normal.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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Offlinejdawg333
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #27075931 - 12/06/20 07:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

yes I think the DMT halved your previous IQ of 200


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner]
    #27075982 - 12/06/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't read about DMT or other typical psychedelics causing brain damage in a physical sense. Can they contribute to a mental breakdown and or psychotic episodes? Absolutely, but that's not the same thing...
having looked for anything on his claims about DMT brain damage I couldn't find something to support it :strokebeard: seems likely his work isn't really related to DMT so even though he's in neuroscience (allegedly) he might just not know that much about it


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #27075983 - 12/06/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:05 PM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27076018 - 12/06/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:06 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 4
    #27076135 - 12/06/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
But it is destroying your brain and never forget that ANY DMT preparation will always be impure...

And It is possible, but unlikely. You have to understand it is like playing roulette at a casino. On any given day, you (as in general) could decide you want to die, for whatever purpose. Or, you could decide to meditate on your visions. It all depends on subconscious thoughts. The subconscious is dangerous when accessed and even the best psychiatrists touch the subconscious with great care as it is beyond fragile. DMT brings the subconscious into the conscious.




I'll give you a second opinion.  This "doctor" is an idiot when it comes to psychedelics.  :cookiemonster:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27076171 - 12/06/20 09:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:06 PM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 3
    #27076256 - 12/06/20 10:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I went to a psychiatrist once, the first thing he wanted to do was get me eating SSRIs and get me off psychedelics. After 3 sessions of me refusing to take the "medicine" the "doctor" refused to see me anymore. Apparently having a massive workload and care load isn't pertinent, that a person wants to learn better coping skills in an ever increasingly complex world isn't a valid reason for seeing a health care professional. It's just that you take the fucking pills. Modern psychiatry is a sham.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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Offlinejdawg333
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #27076260 - 12/06/20 10:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I get a lot of weird looks/scoldings when I explain to people that I would never use pharmaceuticals to treat potential anxiety/depression/OCD. Any drug that builds a dependency that is hard to break seems like a drag to me. Cannabis for relaxation and LSD for working my way out of a rut has done so much for me and can both be quit with zero consequences at any time.

That isn't to say that nobody can benefit from SSRIs + whatnot, but I haven't seen very promising results in friends and family.


Edited by jdawg333 (12/06/20 10:25 PM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #27076271 - 12/06/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:03 PM)


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27076343 - 12/06/20 11:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
I went to a psychiatrist once, the first thing he wanted to do was get me eating SSRIs and get me off psychedelics. After 3 sessions of me refusing to take the "medicine" the "doctor" refused to see me anymore. Apparently having a massive workload and care load isn't pertinent, that a person wants to learn better coping skills in an ever increasingly complex world isn't a valid reason for seeing a health care professional. It's just that you take the fucking pills. Modern psychiatry is a sham.



yeah definitely seems impractical for a lot of situation.
I never realized the big ego problem in medicine. I wonder how much progress is stalled because everyone has their head up their ass and un-willing to move away from dogma, just muddies up the textbooks.




to a degree I get it, I mean doctors deal with ill-informed people who think they know best all time, like crystal people and herbal-healing types who proclaim that things like homeopathic medicine cured them. At the same time they're just people too, and when dealing with anything outside of their experience or training, their opinion isn't necessarily that meaningful.

A less interesting area, but as someone with Celiac disease I've seen a range of different approaches from doctors depending on how much they knew. Some GPS in particular have a very outdated understanding, whereas others are more proactive, while the actual gastroenterologists I've talked to were great and very knowledgeable.

When it comes to drug use -and specifically use of illegal and illicitly obtained substances used by the ostensibly mentally ill for the treatment of their illness, I can understand why many experts would be alarmed. Even if dmt use is beneficial and completely harmless to one individual, I don't think we can expect medical professionals to jump to its defense when they are by definition the mainstream, and dmt is pretty much by definition counter-culture. That doesn't mean they're necessarily 100% wrong, or that we -the drug users- are right, but its worth keeping in mind.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 3
    #27076353 - 12/06/20 11:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds like the person making these huge claims needs to try some DMT :sunny:.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #27076729 - 12/07/20 08:24 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Josh is a juvenile neuroscientist :shrug:

give him time, but ignore him for now.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27076730 - 12/07/20 08:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:03 PM)


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27076857 - 12/07/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Just sounds like DMT scares the shit out of him and he finds ways to demonize it.

Yes it can be dangerous, that's obvious. But that also doesn't mean it shouldn't be studied, as it's been used for thousands of years and is key to our very own evolution.. :lol:

"It puts its users in what I can describe as a psychic illusion, making them believe they have ascended to a higher, more elevated level of consciousness on the drug, and that they are now psychically on par with a celestial deity such as God. However, this illusion dissipates, leading to reinforcement and dosing to uphold the new reality they believe they now have accessed, when they actually are in THE EXACT SAME reality they were in before, just with "goggles" on their eyes."

Not sure what he's trying to say here, the psychedelic state is a form of psychosis, but instead, rather an alternate form of reality, that doesn't mean it's a false reality. The state he is describing is people under the influence which is completely natural. The feelings associated with cathartic experiences are God like. Just sounds like a Naive dude.


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Eclipse3130] * 1
    #27076863 - 12/07/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Lol it literally is endogenous, though in small quantities and doesn't do much in day to day activity but might be released in massive quantities upon death

Also I agree as well. Stoned ape hypothesis. Legalizing and mainstream acceptance of psychedelics will advance humanity

Besides the universe created us, either accidentally or deliberately somehow, but it made us bags of universe particles attached to the universe, given sentience and the ability to self reflect and also observe the very universe we are a part of. It's the universe observing itself through flesh sacks lol

Plus examining and studying psychedelics and altered stated in general will allow scientists to fully understand the human brain and might actually help us understand more intimately, the human condition. And perhaps we can end war...etc etc

For real this time


Edited by skOsH (12/07/20 10:13 AM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27076878 - 12/07/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
haha 2 years ago or so i was smoking like ~20mg on acid and the trip would usually get spooky and dark, like some sort of dark tribal feel, certainly dont have the balls to do it on my current 1p-lsd trips, :lol:


i found this combination rather interesting.  I was on 250 mics of some amazing gel tabs. Amazing visuals an trails i was jamming out to pink floyd dark side of the moon.

an the clouds formed a big rocket ship flying in the sky an the sun was peeking threw an  was the flames shooting out the back really cool.

Well i ended up taking 2 pulls from my DMT cart an wow she really kicked in to fifth gear it felt like the DMT lasted much longer to at least 25 mins. I felt like i was floating an my acid visuals had almost like an white light at any thing i looked at like the trees looked like they had 1000 LED lights  emitting light from the branches.

But i can see how DMT can easily be abused especially if you got a DMT cart you just press that button an off the the races. I personally dont feel any side-effects from my use but it definitely deserves its respect. I basically share my cart with people every one really enjoys it an they never done any thing before.  I guess im just good at giving a crash course lesson on what you may expect.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #27076880 - 12/07/20 10:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:03 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27077107 - 12/07/20 12:47 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

"celestial deity"  :okthatsfunny:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #27077159 - 12/07/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

The power of drug lays in it's active dose. I've never used DMT as a pure drug, but this applies to all drugs in common. I had 1 year in my life I've trippped once or twice every week on shrooms for a full year. No side effects at all, only good insights and helped me through severe depressions time. A trip does not mean happy feeling per-se, but sometimes YEAH it's all worth it! Keep in mind alcohol and marihuana (when smoked or vaped) are more damaging to the body. Hallucinating drugs are some kind of unpredictable and should be taken with precaution.

Most (good) drug work because it 'attaches' to the same pockets as the serotonine ion receptor(s). So how is it to destroy serotonine (or its receptors). Alcohol is different because it releases the human serotonine, making its buffer depleted (i/e feeling bad afterwards and needs recovery) It is simply taking its place (with more strength, so the human filter for unconsciousness is working less effective or not at all)

I don't underestimate the power of it.
During 1 heavy trip I've made the decision to not (let?) reprogram my brain. I refused, but even up to today I still question this decision


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: MushRock]
    #27077576 - 12/07/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushRock said:
I don't underestimate the power of it.
During 1 heavy trip I've made the decision to not (let?) reprogram my brain. I refused, but even up to today I still question this decision




Interesting.  It was with high dose mushroom trips that I started doing that very thing.  It can be disturbing at first but the results are profound.  I recall onetime voluntarily shutting off major consciousness while "loading" a new version of brainware...


--------------------

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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27078007 - 12/07/20 11:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Josh is a juvenile neuroscientist :shrug:

give him time, but ignore him for now.




"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27078858 - 12/08/20 02:27 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:04 PM)


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27078895 - 12/08/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

That's ridiculous.  DMT is not orally active without an MAOI.  This "neuroscientist" guy is off his rocker.  And neuroscientists don't see patients, nor are they called as consultants.  I call 100% total BULLSHIT.

I suggest you stop wasting your time "conversing" with this asshole, and further, stop repeating his absurd theories of injury from DMT.  Every bit of it has been a crock of shit and this last bit of "conversation" is the proof.


--------------------
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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Nature Boy]
    #27078898 - 12/08/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:04 PM)


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27078902 - 12/08/20 02:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Seriously...NO.  It's a waste of your time and ours.  It's as much his personal fantasy as Trump's belief he won the election.  STOP giving him a platform for nonsensical disinformation and "alternative facts."


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Nature Boy]
    #27078903 - 12/08/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:04 PM)


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27078907 - 12/08/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

OK...then I'm cutting out of this thread.  Sorry dude.  Not worth my time reviewing sloppy fantastical beliefs.


--------------------
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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Nature Boy]
    #27078908 - 12/08/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:03 PM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27078912 - 12/08/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:03 PM)


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27078970 - 12/08/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:

Josh: ...he has hurt himself, and needs sutures, which I will be doing.




Neuroscientists don't typically suture patients.

Also, if you look up Josh Collard on social media websites, he seems to be currently enrolled in university and not yet graduated.

He seems quite young and his posts reflect that. I don't want to discredit his knowledge due to his age, but it seems that he has nowhere near enough experience to make the claims he's making.

It would seem to me that he's making stuff up based on the biased "evidence" that is fed to him, along with adding his own theories on the matter and believing their validity a priori.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27078978 - 12/08/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:03 PM)


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27078984 - 12/08/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ask him to provide papers to back up up his claims.
If he truly is a budding neuroscientist then it could be good for him and us to be truly informed.

If these studies aren't done were all guessing.

Just remember with his education leading up to this point there's more likehood of him holding the beliefs he has than not and in his mind he's trying to help you.


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Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: pineninja]
    #27078987 - 12/08/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:02 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27078994 - 12/08/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Seriously...NO.  It's a waste of your time and ours.  It's as much his personal fantasy as Trump's belief he won the election.  STOP giving him a platform..



okay i trust you, not sure what his angle is, might be an agenda of his, and also its suspect that this "new case" has come up during this interaction.
very suspect.





He's an idiot, end of story.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27078997 - 12/08/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------
My Drawingzz
Draw DMT!

Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel


Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:02 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27079003 - 12/08/20 04:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

SleepyE said:
Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Seriously...NO.  It's a waste of your time and ours.  It's as much his personal fantasy as Trump's belief he won the election.  STOP giving him a platform..



okay i trust you, not sure what his angle is, might be an agenda of his, and also its suspect that this "new case" has come up during this interaction.
very suspect.





He's an idiot, end of story.




He's a young person, beginning of story.

Also potential future advocate.


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Offlinejesusfish
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: pineninja]
    #27079074 - 12/08/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I don't really agree anything he's saying, other than that I notice that there's definitely a subset of DMT smoker who smoke it everyday or every otherdau, which seems like too much. At the same time, I don't think we should start attacking this dude because he's anti-DMT.

At the most malicious end of the spectrum he could be intentionally ill-informed, but at the most benign he just made some assumptions.

No reason to be mad at the guy.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: jesusfish]
    #27079086 - 12/08/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

.


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Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:02 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: pineninja] * 1
    #27079200 - 12/08/20 06:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

SleepyE said:
Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Seriously...NO.  It's a waste of your time and ours.  It's as much his personal fantasy as Trump's belief he won the election.  STOP giving him a platform..



okay i trust you, not sure what his angle is, might be an agenda of his, and also its suspect that this "new case" has come up during this interaction.
very suspect.





He's an idiot, end of story.




He's a young person, beginning of story.

Also potential future advocate.




He's an idiot now.  What he might be in the future is anybody's guess, but "advocate" doesn't leap to mind. :laugh2:


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27079264 - 12/08/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

i blocked him on instagram, this guy gives me bad vibes man


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27079296 - 12/08/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe the dude he refers to snorted or smoked said "powdered DMT". People do have falls and injure themselves if they aren't aware of what the risks are. A member on another forum lost a friend who smoked next to a river and fell in. This sort of stuff happens, though very rarely. Most people just lay on their couches or bed and the highest risk is falling on the floor. Or maybe he deliberately hurt himself in a derealistic state. Derealism has to be the highest risk with DMT compared to any psychedelic I know of.

People do lose their shit on DMT, it's just rare. Most people stop before said shit is fully lost.

Playing devil's advocate here.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27079303 - 12/08/20 07:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

doesn't sound like he's actually a neuroscientist, based on his comments. However I think basically any healthcare professional -or anyone not on this site- would probably support the idea that people who experience psychosis should not take psychedelics. The rest of it sounds like bullshit, but I actually believe that as well I'm afraid, its just not worth the risk recommending psychedelic use for mentally ill people. Sure its possible that there are real benefits, or cases where the risk is lower, but there isn't really good data on this and I wouldn't respect any professional encouraging people to use such powerful drugs without a great deal of caution.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27079318 - 12/08/20 07:14 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

dishonest i feel :thumbdown: scammy


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Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:14 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27079330 - 12/08/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

can mods delete this thread, i want it gone now :\


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Edited by SleepyE (12/08/20 07:18 PM)


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27079787 - 12/09/20 12:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
can mods delete this thread, i want it gone now :\




I don't think deleting it was necessary mate and I thought it was an interesting conversation/thread. I thought some of what he was saying was probably a bit overblown and ignorant but he was/is probably well-intentioned.

Didn't you tell him you had experienced psychosis in the past and have a family history of schizophrenia?

Psychedelics such as DMT can be risky within that context and he may have been trying to warn you specifically.

I do remember being rather concerned about your DMT use when you used to post here Sleepy a few years back, especially as you seemed to have a history of drug induced (with family history) psychosis, and a tendency to romanticize schizophrenia itself.

He probably also does have a lot of experience with a certain kind of drug users with simlar histories or predispositions getting into real trouble using psychedelics like DMT. I would not bet against it! 

And to be fair, I would warn my own kid against using DMT or psychedelics. That doesn't make me an idiot worthy of contempt or demonizing, I don't think, as to my mind it's just me being responsible! He probably feels similarly towards wider society in general.


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Edited by wolf8312 (12/09/20 04:58 AM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27079796 - 12/09/20 01:09 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Doctors always see the casualties as well, not the other 99% who had beneficial or negligible effects. Simple perception bias, they too are human.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner]
    #27079875 - 12/09/20 03:48 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I dont know, who knows what goes on with me. I see my past as learning experiences and trying to figure myself out, all I can say is my experiences have made me wiser, even for me I never lost my skepticism. I basically envisioned a way the world works and wanted to test it to see if it was true or false and when I came to the conclusion that my suspicions were false I changed my mind. It's easy to get carried away with a new perspective.
Bottom line the dude seemed like a bullshiter to me :shrug:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27080003 - 12/09/20 07:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

For me I really didnt interpret what happen to be as detrimental as something labeled "psychosis" though I'm sure you could classify it like that. And as I said many factors were involved that contributed to it like certain life stressors I had. I really dont believe there is one single cause in my case.
I was enormously emotionally attached to a person and it was becoming an extreme burden on my psyche and needed an earth quake to shake it and i received that, and it rendered me more content afterwards.
I know its clichè but I have since interpreted it more as an awakening experience and was a net positive for me when all was said and done. It's like a process of working through emotional trauma.
Though its too complex to really get anyones opinion on it because they just want to impose whatever beliefs and assumptions they have about said experiences.
I plan to resume my exploration just as I resumed it after that experience. I personally believe it's not a risk for me at least based on what I know about myself and how it effects me.


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Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 08:46 AM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27080031 - 12/09/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

OP, I agree with wolf8312, probably no reason to delete that conversation it was an interesting read.

I agree that cautioning others about psychedelics is the responsible thing to do. Not everyone is prepared to take psychedelics and many people do not have the ability to handle an overwhelming experience. This isn't a reflection of the substance but evidence of a state of internal disarray of the individual (emotional, spiritual, psychological etc).

And although it rarely leads to anything life-threatening, there is a small set of people who do get violent or turn to self-harm in that panic. But more people get violent on alcohol so it's not something that is inherent to psychedelics nor is it even likely on them.

Anyway, I think the issues I, and many others, had with him was his claims of how DMT destroys specific receptors and leaves lasting physical damage. Although I've never used DMT, I enjoy doing research on psychedelics (both anecdotal and peer-reviewed) and I've never come across any claims of the sort. Did he make a breakthrough discovery about the neuro-physical affects of DMT? I highly doubt it. And there isn't anything out there in the way of real research on the matter of DMT's physical detriments to the brain and cns. (And if there is, please give me a source I'd love to read it).

So one can only conclude that he literally fabricated this idea that DMT is neurodegenerative because he believes a bad trip and/or psychotic episode necessitates neurodegeneration.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27080088 - 12/09/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
Anyway, I think the issues I, and many others, had with him was his claims of how DMT destroys specific receptors and leaves lasting physical damage. Although I've never used DMT, I enjoy doing research on psychedelics (both anecdotal and peer-reviewed) and I've never come across any claims of the sort. Did he make a breakthrough discovery about the neuro-physical affects of DMT? I highly doubt it. And there isn't anything out there in the way of real research on the matter of DMT's physical detriments to the brain and cns. (And if there is, please give me a source I'd love to read it).

So one can only conclude that he literally fabricated this idea that DMT is neurodegenerative because he believes a bad trip and/or psychotic episode necessitates neurodegeneration.




Hummm. Must have missed that part. That does sound highly unlikely!


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27080095 - 12/09/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

honestly my experiences seemed much closer to a concept like this
https://lonerwolf.com/kundalini-awakening/#h-is-kundalini-awakening-dangerous

compared to a random meaningless episode of "madness"

but what do i know im just guessing i guess. and these kinds of people dont seem to want to accept that you can have a benefit from such an experience


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27080159 - 12/09/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
honestly my experiences seemed much closer to a concept like this
https://lonerwolf.com/kundalini-awakening/#h-is-kundalini-awakening-dangerous

compared to a random meaningless episode of "madness"

but what do i know im just guessing i guess. and these kinds of people dont seem to want to accept that you can have a benefit from such an experience




Are you sure you are talking about clinical psychosis though and not just tripping balls? Were you ever hospitalized?
Best portrayal of paranoid psychosis I have ever seen was not the bullshit- A beautiful mind (though the book is seriously one of my all time favorites and nothing like the movie) but the Truman Show.

How it showed the protagonist as the victim of a great universal secret which everyone but he himself were all in on, was for myself unnervingly reminiscent of delusional psychosis. The more he attempts to discover and expose the lie, the more the world closes in on him and tries to physically prevent him from getting to the truth (in reality the point where one is restrained and driven to hospital bellowing about having seen it).

But even that movie doesn’t convey the abject terror of paranoid psychosis.

Possible this guy is full of shit, but on the other hand... DMT is seriously brain bogglingly powerful. There were times when I wondered how it was possible I could even survive such sheer intensity, so who really knows the long term effects of smoking it, but he should definitely provide evidence to back up his claims.

If he really is a neuroscientist though hard to believe he would be lying publicly. Some people online will pretend to be all sorts of different things! Grizzled military combat veteran is a classic!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



Edited by wolf8312 (12/09/20 09:49 AM)


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27080171 - 12/09/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I was never hospitalized,  diagnosed or put on medication. The whole process I went through was integration of experiences which were significant to my daily life and events.
The real John nash apparently had a pattern detection problem and apparently he believed everyone wearing a red tie was part of a Russian conspiracy or something. Cant remember the real story


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27080192 - 12/09/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I had the Truman show syndrome and believed strangers secretly knew who I was but pretended not to. So I played along with it because I assumed I was part of a play or something. But that's just a simple patternicity error.


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Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 10:08 AM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27080228 - 12/09/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

If you want to compare my experience to a movie it would be the movie "Pi"
At the climax of the ultimate truth experience I had an internal dialogue with voices which I believed to be all the significant people I've known in my life and they were saying that source split into positive and negative or south, and I could hear the voice of the person i was deeply attached to (her name was southern.)
The voice said after source split he began chasing his tail in a circle until he had a brilliant idea to break the cycle and spiral out into a new direction and that created two circles which were represented by infinity. They said this pattern repeats over and over in the universe like the fibannaci sequence so I started trying to look for that pattern in all things using "this Is to that, as that is to this.". It was a form of numerology. I interpreted that as saying 0 = infinity and had to do with concepts like duality vs wholeness


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Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 10:35 AM)


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27080229 - 12/09/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
I had the Truman show syndrome and believed strangers secretly knew who I was but pretended not to. So I played along with it because I assumed I was part of a play or something. But that's just a simple patternicity error.




was that only while tripping though, or for a prolonged period after? Because to my mind that does sound like a good reason to avoid psychedelics, personally. It may have worked out for you but I think all the characters and stories one encounters on this site are actually a very good example of why we should be more cautious of proclaiming psychedelic virtues to random internet strangers who are often young and impressionable, and sometimes quite unstable.

Not to say you don't or shouldn't get anything out of your dmt trips, but I do think the risk is underplayed by many on here. Personally I've never had lasting problems from tripping (also haven't done dmt yet) but I've seen LSD completely unmake an otherwise sane friend of mine, nearly resulting in death. He's avoided psychedelics ever since and has never had an episode like that again though, so it's even possible to my mind that some people just can't handle those changes in their brain in a safe manner :shrug:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27080235 - 12/09/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I dose high doses of lsd frequently and am not bothered in the slightest


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27080270 - 12/09/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

you personally are probably fine then, but I totally get why no health professional would recommend use to anyone. although I think this specific guy was probably bullshitting lol


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27080378 - 12/09/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I forgot its hopeless trying to explain my experiences and have anyone guide me to understand what exactly took place. Most are painfully ignorant and lack experience. I understand people do have terms for it like a psycho-spiritual emergency. But regardless, it's in the past and I have left go of it and integrated it in a way that is comfortable for me.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312] * 2
    #27080524 - 12/09/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:

And to be fair, I would warn my own kid against using DMT or psychedelics. That doesn't make me an idiot worthy of contempt or demonizing, I don't think, as to my mind it's just me being responsible! He probably feels similarly towards wider society in general.





FWIW I don't call him an idiot because he's warning against using it.  It's because he's conflating a whole lot of rubbish together that has nothing to do with DMT itself to support his blanket warning.  Go back and see where he talks about "touching the subconscious" being incredible dangerous because of blah blah and blah.  This is not even remotely accurate, and it isn't based in any real science either.  Never mind oral DMT being active all by itself, and that it destroys serotonin receptors - just rubbish. 

No, I call him an idiot because he's wrong about so much of what he said that it leaves little opportunity for him to actually be correct about any of the rest of it. :shrug:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #27080537 - 12/09/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Hes probably just some punk kid that thinks he knows everything. Hes not interested in considering anyones point of  view. He just wants to tell you how "it is."
What an arrogant tool


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Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 02:05 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27080547 - 12/09/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I regret reaching out to him, he was making claims over instagram that dmt causes brain damage and claiming hes a neuroscientist so I wanted to see what he was on about, yada yada yada hes a bullshit artist :shrug:


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Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 01:55 PM)


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27080579 - 12/09/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
I regret reaching out to him, he was making claims over instagram that dmt causes brain damage and claiming hes a neuroscientist so I wanted to see what he was on about, yada yada yada hes a bullshit artist :shrug:




Everyone's a neuroscientist-politician-genius-engineer-doctor-super genius-god-king on those social media websites.

They are, for the most part, a dumpster for the ego to feed.

Anyway, assuming that he is as young as I think (early 20s), it also seems to come with the territory. I was an idiot in my early 20s too, just in a different way than this guy. And it took me a psychedelic experience and some maturing before I went from an idiot to slightly less of an idiot. Perhaps he just needs time and some eye opening experiences to get his ego in check.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27080583 - 12/09/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

The interaction I had with him left a bad taste in my mouth... fuck em.
Got my new jewel scale so, let the research resume!


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27080624 - 12/09/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
The interaction I had with him left a bad taste in my mouth... fuck em.
Got my new jewel scale so, let the research resume!




Off topic: I just saw you have a video on your youtube channel about reconciling Jordan Peterson and Terrence Mckenna (two of my favorite people/writers/"artists"). Would be cool to have a chat about that. Wondering what you mean by the need to reconcile them (I see some marked differences in their beliefs but nothing I believe to be too drastic).

Back on topic: :thumbup: keep the exploration going!


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom] * 1
    #27080666 - 12/09/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

From what I understand jordan peterson has a philosophy that dominance hierarchies have a purpose and we must coexist within them, and terence McKenna believes they should be dismantled and we should walk away from them.
I was thinking maybe Jordan's ideas work in this moment of time because not everyone is on the same page so we are less likely to cooperate to a specific goal, but as time progresses and consciousness evolves our values would moreso line up to terence McKenna vision.

So like petersons ideas are where we are now, and Terence ideas are where we are headed in the future, like some sort of singularity.


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Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 03:11 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27080704 - 12/09/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
From what I understand jordan peterson has a philosophy that dominance hierarchies have a purpose and we must coexist within them, and terence McKenna believes they should be dismantled and we should walk away from them.
I was thinking maybe Jordan's ideas work in this moment of time because not everyone is on the same page so we are less likely to cooperate to a specific goal, but as time progresses and consciousness evolves our values would moreso line up to terence McKenna vision.

So like petersons ideas are where we are now, and Terence ideas are where we are headed in the future, like some sort of singularity.




I see. In that way, one representative of the now and the other of the future, it would indeed be easy to reconcile them.

I think Peterson is absolutely right that dominance hierarchies exist, we see it in nature. And part of our nature is the inherent social network that we exist in. So that social network, following what seems to be inherent nature, will arrange itself according to those dominance hierarchies.

Terrence may not have fully seen it, but he himself lived within such hierarchies. He envisioned the plants, nature, etc as the top of the dominance hierarchy. This seems evident by his Food of the Gods book.

Nonetheless, it seems that Peterson's representation is that of the divine masculine while Mckenna's ideas manifest the divine feminine. Terrence talks about what he calls "dominator" societies and "partnership" societies. And, like you've mentioned, he believed that the "partnership" societies should be the (no pun intended) dominating type of society (dominance hierarchy of its own, interestingly enough). But I don't think Peterson (or the ideas of the divine masculine) disagree here.

I believe that Peterson's idea of "dominance" hierarchy is misconstrued. I don't believe he is promoting the idea of a "dominator" society akin to what Mckenna discussed. What Peterson is expressing is the fact that our universe is specifically ordered (even if we can't perceive that order). This order has, by definition, something that is dominant and something that is dominated (although I feel dominated is the wrong word and assistant would be more accurate.). Even in a "partnership" society, there must be, for example, someone who is tasked with organizing, say, an event. Then someone tasked with the food and another tasked with the music (and so forth). And right there we have a hierarchy of what could be seen as dominance (the "organizer" being the dominant figure, manifesting their plan, while everyone else assists). And that is also the masculine (manifesting order).

So I don't think Peterson meant dominant in the way we think of it now (as in having power over another) but dominant as in being at a specific level of organization.

In that way, I think they both believe in the same thing. They both believe in the flow of "partnership" societies. Even in Terrence's ideal societies, hierarchies would be fundamental to the structure, they would just be expressed in a different (perhaps more feminine) way.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27080717 - 12/09/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting view! Il have to ponder on it more to really absorb it all.

The thing that I really like about both of them is their advocation for transcendental experiences and are both fascinated with the power of entheogens, also both are jungian thinkers..
Jordan peterson is a master of duality and I loved how he applied that concept when understanding topics. As a libra I really identify with that concept of balancing opposing energies.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27081461 - 12/10/20 02:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:

And to be fair, I would warn my own kid against using DMT or psychedelics. That doesn't make me an idiot worthy of contempt or demonizing, I don't think, as to my mind it's just me being responsible! He probably feels similarly towards wider society in general.





FWIW I don't call him an idiot because he's warning against using it.  It's because he's conflating a whole lot of rubbish together that has nothing to do with DMT itself to support his blanket warning.  Go back and see where he talks about "touching the subconscious" being incredible dangerous because of blah blah and blah.  This is not even remotely accurate, and it isn't based in any real science either.  Never mind oral DMT being active all by itself, and that it destroys serotonin receptors - just rubbish. 

No, I call him an idiot because he's wrong about so much of what he said that it leaves little opportunity for him to actually be correct about any of the rest of it. :shrug:





To be honest I understand where you were coming from, as as I mentioned after that post I didn’t catch some of the more outlandish things he was saying and was trying to reconstruct the deleted conversation from memory. Although I’m not rushing to judgment as I’m not certain what he’s saying is indeed bullshit. If he is indeed a neuroscientist he probably knows a thing or two and I doubt he’d be lying. Question is for me is, is he really who he says he is?


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27081507 - 12/10/20 03:16 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

You're hurting the cause.

He will remain an idiot if people have that attitude towards him ... no guess needed.:lol:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27082293 - 12/10/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
Hes probably just some punk kid that thinks he knows everything. Hes not interested in considering anyones point of  view. He just wants to tell you how "it is."
What an arrogant tool





That's totally the impression I got when I first read the OP when it was still posted :yesnod: .




I've enjoyed reading through some of the posts & conversation in this thread though :thumbup: .





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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312] * 1
    #27082345 - 12/10/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:



To be honest I understand where you were coming from, as as I mentioned after that post I didn’t catch some of the more outlandish things he was saying and was trying to reconstruct the deleted conversation from memory. Although I’m not rushing to judgment as I’m not certain what he’s saying is indeed bullshit. If he is indeed a neuroscientist he probably knows a thing or two and I doubt he’d be lying. Question is for me is, is he really who he says he is?





Well just go look it up, then.  Nothing indicates he's actually a neuroscientist, and a great deal indicates the opposite.  Ignorance foremost.  :shrug:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: pineninja]
    #27082386 - 12/10/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
You're hurting the cause.

He will remain an idiot if people have that attitude towards him ... no guess needed.:lol:





I don't disagree with that entirely.  :buzzaldrin:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27082648 - 12/10/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder if he's been reading this thread, now it has been linked for him. 

:realtext:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Northerner]
    #27082658 - 12/10/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

i unsent the messages linking it, most he has is the name of the site.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27082683 - 12/10/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:



To be honest I understand where you were coming from, as as I mentioned after that post I didn’t catch some of the more outlandish things he was saying and was trying to reconstruct the deleted conversation from memory. Although I’m not rushing to judgment as I’m not certain what he’s saying is indeed bullshit. If he is indeed a neuroscientist he probably knows a thing or two and I doubt he’d be lying. Question is for me is, is he really who he says he is?





Well just go look it up, then.  Nothing indicates he's actually a neuroscientist, and a great deal indicates the opposite.  Ignorance foremost.  :shrug:




I'm not really losing enough sleep over it to start an investigation mate!

Prolonged use/abuse of DMT having possibly adverse long term effects on the brian while unlikely, isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and if it was coming from an honest to god scientist I'd probably listen! Do any of us really know for sure?

As for his saying 'touching the subconcious is dangerous' making him an idiot, well to be honest it might depend on what a person has lurking back there!

I've always believed (and made posts about) myself that this can mean the difference between simply tripping hard and psychotic breakdown for quite a significant portion of unstable people, and most of us can be unstable or vulnerable sometimes.

I agree he seems rather dodgy but then I didn't feel like he was an 'idiot' on first impressions from what little I can remember.

Some of what he was saying I seem to remember agreeing with to be fair.


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Edited by wolf8312 (12/10/20 05:24 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27082697 - 12/10/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

hes not experienced enough and his risk/reward ratio is wayy out of wack and inaccurate.
plus hes a lying bullshiter :shrug:


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Edited by SleepyE (12/10/20 05:40 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27082737 - 12/10/20 05:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
plus hes a lying bullshiter :shrug:




Yeah but he's also expressing opinions unlikey to go down well on a psychdelic drugs forum to be fair! It's a bit like me going to a forum dedicated to CYBERPUNK 2077 and shitting all over it! We're all a little biased!

Quote:

his risk:reward ratio is wayy out of wack and inaccurate




Sorry what?


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27082740 - 12/10/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

hes not weighing potential risk against potential benefits properly, for instance a lot of hard drugs have a bad risk/reward ratio in comparison.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27082789 - 12/10/20 06:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

also being pro-DMT and anti-DMT is somewhat of a political agenda that's largely based on your value systems.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27082824 - 12/10/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
hes not weighing potential risk against potential benefits properly, for instance a lot of hard drugs have a bad risk/reward ratio in comparison.




But equally is it not interesting to consider, that DMT, being one of the most potent substances known to man, also has no real tolerance to speak of. This makes it not only eye poppingly potent but also very easy to abuse for those so inclined.

It's obviously self evident that everthing we love in our universe has its price/paradox so is it really that much of a reach to at least entertain the possibility that there could be long term consequences for abusing a drug like DMT on a prolonged daily basis?

I think we should at least be open to the possibility of this knowing how many other drugs before it were later revealed to be more dangerous and damaging than people had previously thought.

I've always believed that LSD would be a seriously hard and damaging drug, akin to a powerful amphetamine, were it not for the fact that it produces rapid tolerance and respite.

I'm not saying he's right (or even real) Sleepy as I honestly don't know, but as you say yourself this subject is contaminated somewhat by partisan politics where objectivity or a willingness to hear out the the other sides point of view without flippant or contemptuous dismissiveness, is often absent.


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Edited by wolf8312 (12/10/20 06:57 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27082866 - 12/10/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
contaminated somewhat by partisan politics where objectivity or a willingness to hear out the the other sides point of view without flippant or contemptuous dismissiveness, is often absent.



the subject is literally a Rorschach test in personal values, i know what the other side values and it sucks, not for me.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 2
    #27082891 - 12/10/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
contaminated somewhat by partisan politics where objectivity or a willingness to hear out the the other sides point of view without flippant or contemptuous dismissiveness, is often absent.



The subject is literally a Rorschach test in personal values,






:grin:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27082941 - 12/10/20 08:16 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

hah i love frasier :P


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27082964 - 12/10/20 08:28 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
hah i love frasier :P




Me too! :smile:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27083061 - 12/10/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:

Well just go look it up, then.  Nothing indicates he's actually a neuroscientist, and a great deal indicates the opposite.  Ignorance foremost.  :shrug:




I'm not really losing enough sleep over it to start an investigation mate!

Prolonged use/abuse of DMT having possibly adverse long term effects on the brian while unlikely, isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and if it was coming from an honest to god scientist I'd probably listen! Do any of us really know for sure?






Nah, I'm talking about "DMT destroys neuroreceptors", just google that. There is nothing online about this being remotely true.  An actual neuroscientist, or even a halfway student, would realize this.  There's no mechanism for this happening.

It's fine to give people a provisional pass when they make sense about some things, but this is just utter bullshit.  As the title of the thread now indicates. And it was central to his (now deleted) argument. :laugh2:

Have a better one.  :cookiemonster:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27083124 - 12/10/20 10:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:

Well just go look it up, then.  Nothing indicates he's actually a neuroscientist, and a great deal indicates the opposite.  Ignorance foremost.  :shrug:




I'm not really losing enough sleep over it to start an investigation mate!

Prolonged use/abuse of DMT having possibly adverse long term effects on the brian while unlikely, isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and if it was coming from an honest to god scientist I'd probably listen! Do any of us really know for sure?






Nah, I'm talking about "DMT destroys neuroreceptors", just google that. There is nothing online about this being remotely true.  An actual neuroscientist, or even a halfway student, would realize this.  There's no mechanism for this happening.

It's fine to give people a provisional pass when they make sense about some things, but this is just utter bullshit.  As the title of the thread now indicates. And it was central to his (now deleted) argument. :laugh2:

Have a better one.  :cookiemonster:





I actually thought it was supposed to be the exact opposite to be honest. I seem to remember there being something about that on the shroomery recently.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
    #27083260 - 12/10/20 11:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

jordan peterson is a christian. He's far too religious for my taste.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27083377 - 12/11/20 02:22 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
hah i love frasier :P




Me too! :smile:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #27083438 - 12/11/20 04:54 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah but he doesnt take the bible as to be literally true, he has interesting things to say because hes not a fundamentalist and is actually critical of those people. That being said he can be too attached to that culture to the point where it clouds his judgement on certain topics.


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Edited by SleepyE (12/11/20 06:42 AM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27083462 - 12/11/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

He's not a christian he says so in his talks. He states that society needed Christian values to become what it is today, kinda true in a sense imo...


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: LSD-25]
    #27083499 - 12/11/20 06:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah its seen more as the foundation of society's structure. And he said mystics like us are here to upgrade the bugs in the foundation.
He talks about the difference between the traditionalists and the mystics, I thought it was an interesting concept


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Edited by SleepyE (12/11/20 06:40 AM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: LosTresOjos] * 1
    #27083520 - 12/11/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
jordan peterson is a christian. He's far too religious for my taste.




Hey, there you are! Wondering when you would show up and remind us of your aversion to Peterson!

(Just kidding, love you man :heart:)

But I don't think that being a "christian", if he indeed is one, should disqualify him from being heard. I too am not fond of institutional christianity but I think he has some rather interesting things to say. Yes, many of them are simple, and yes some of them might be wrong, but no human should be expected to be perfect.

And maybe he doesn't having anything of value to say, in your opinion. I totally respect that. I simply believe that we should especially listen to people we might not like/agree with so that we can expand our understanding, even if that understanding ends up being "Yep, he's still wrong/boring/simple/etc".


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom] * 1
    #27083559 - 12/11/20 07:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Hes by no means infallible and does have crap takes on some topics, but a lot of stuff he touches on can be thought provoking and useful


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Edited by SleepyE (12/11/20 07:46 AM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27084752 - 12/11/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I have no issues with peterson, he can think what he likes. I've heard many of his talks and although i do feel that he is correct on many core aspects i also think he is harmful on others. Like pushing his christian values on those looking for help. But he is an interesting guy to listen too, considering the influence he has.

This nonsense of christian values is straight bullshit. As if we didn't know murder and stealing was wrong until dear old moses came down. please.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: LosTresOjos] * 1
    #27085680 - 12/12/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Don't get me started on Peterson, ah too late...

he's a charlatan and there is no reason to take any of his statements at face value. What little of his writing is sound, is just common sense self-help stuff that didn't originate with him, and the rest of it is conservatism mixed with conspiracy thinking.

Any academic who talks about 'social marxism', identity politics and post-modernism is either being dishonest or talking out of his ass. Those things are not interchangeable, and are a central part of his talks. Also he pushes very conservative traditional values, and most egregious of all never makes any open and clear arguments, everything he says is couched in a faux-intellectualism while being phrased in such a way he can back out of any argument without having to defend it.

Again, a couple of his points are valid, but as a figure he's an embarrassment


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27085740 - 12/12/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

For me I'm less interested in the politics stuff, and the  boogeyman he talks about. I dont really care about politics and consider myself rather apolitical.
Though to be accurate he is technically a classical liberal and not conservative. If he was conservative he'd be saying stuff like "psychedelics are bad mkay."


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27085793 - 12/12/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

classical liberal? like the ones that were pro-slavery.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #27085810 - 12/12/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Well I doubt hes pro slavery.
Hes economically conservative and socially liberal.
:shrug:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27085881 - 12/12/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
For me I'm less interested in the politics stuff, and the  boogeyman he talks about. I dont really care about politics and consider myself rather apolitical.
Though to be accurate he is technically a classical liberal and not conservative. If he was conservative he'd be saying stuff like "psychedelics are bad mkay."




he is not a classical liberal, he claims to be one, but one's political ideology isn't determined by one's assertion but by the arguments they make and support. It's a classic tactic used by many of today's conservatives, which he absolutely is by the Canadian political climate's standard. He also jumped to prominence by misrepresenting Canadian legislation in regards to trans pronouns.

I understand why people might like him if they take him at his word, but I've watched him and read him enough to know he is an opportunist and a snake, and lies all over the place.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27085897 - 12/12/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Tbh I dont really know too much about that legislation other than he believed it was compelled speech and against his free speech principles, but he has said that he would use someones preferred pronouns when asked specifically.


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Edited by SleepyE (12/12/20 02:44 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27086068 - 12/12/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
Tbh I dont really know too much about that legislation other than he believed it was compelled speech and against his free speech principles, but he has said that he would use someones preferred pronouns when asked specifically.




he just very much misrepresented the bill that was being passed, as all the bill really did was include trans people as a class that it could be considered a hate crime to discriminate against, it didn't however in any way legislate what pronouns must be used which he made a leap to, and notably it hasn't lead to anyone being punished for mis-gendering.

Kind of a derailment, but as a figure he really irks me because of his dishonesty, and its disappointing to me whenever an advocate for psychedelics tarnishes their name by association


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27086082 - 12/12/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, i  can understand where you are coming from. Il have to look into the details of all to make up my own mind. But yeah i dunno he seems open minded in some ways to me and i feel like people are more likely to evolve opinions overtime with that mindset.
I mean no reason to take most of what he says seriously, i just find him to have an interesting perspective on topics i was interested in.


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Edited by SleepyE (12/12/20 04:51 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #27086117 - 12/12/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
yeah, i  can understand where you are coming from. Il have to look into the details of all to make up my own mind. But yeah i dunno he seems open minded in some ways to me and i feel like people are more likely to evolve opinions overtime with that mindset.
I mean no reason to take most of what he says seriously, i just find him to have an interesting perspective on topics i was interested in.




totally fair, obviously a lot of people do get something out of him and I think its best to hear people out and then form an opinion rather than like, cancel them or whatever :thumbup:


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27086122 - 12/12/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

of course! i stopped looking into it because it looked like a rabbit hole of just different perspectives going back and forth, i got tired of it and lost interest.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
    #27236032 - 03/03/21 09:16 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So I thought about it and I decided to repost Josh's opinions with my rebuttal.
I kind of feel like if hes being truthful about the reactions, then a lot of it is probably him attracting those scenarios and only seeing that because its kind of like a rorschach test hes looking at that reflects his biases, similar to how people analyze and see an event differently based on political leanings.
I recently heard an interesting idea from jordan peterson saying that cultures (including ones that used psychedelics in the past) acted out ritual sacrifice because they were trying to work out the philosophy of metaphorical sacrifice instead of literal, and that this wisdom comes as cultures become more sophisticated. If this is happening to people he is seeing its because they have no business touching DMT, and have zero swimming skills. Its easy to see how rookies can get confused by narratives their tripping mind is trying to imprint on waking experience. I think they use the term "confusing the map for the territory" to address this.

If i had the language to explain what happened to me, its almost like my mind was pushed so far into chaos that a new order emerged from it, it was clearly an entropy like process occurring. only my new mind started with a basic form of geometric symmetry with the concept of (zero = infinity) and tried to organize all the data in my head like files which connect through a language meta-network-like thing (cycling unity/division or analog compressed to digital unity). The more i learn the more the symmetry resonates when my mind recognizes a specific structure. when i take psychedelics or smoke weed, it like over drives the symmetry resonance and i can even start uncovering repressed memories.
i was swallowed by the white noise and i guess im in the pond again :crazy2:



Quote:


Me:

Hey man, I saw your post instagram and I want to know more about your research.
I run a Youtube channel which explains my experience with psychosis after large amounts of DMT.
I had a profound experience which felt very convincing and it included ideas of reference including experiencing profound synchronicities and feeling like the radio was sending messages just for me, similar to the Truman Show.
It Lasted for a couple of months but then I watched Michael Shermers Ted Talk on the patterns of self deception and I learned about patternicity and type 1 and type 2 errors of seeing patterns in noise.
Ever since I learned this I can use psychedelics and not have episodes because im grounded in the ideas shared in Michael Shermers talk. Also I should mention my mother has had episodes of psychosis and believed she was the chosen one and she never used drugs.
So how was I able to reason my way out of that thinking if it was brain damage.

Josh:

It always is brain damage, the serotonin (5_HT(x)) receptors are essentially destroyed, severing the connection in specific sections of the mesolimbic area. What parts of my research are you interested in? To answer your question, it's extremely complicated.
The reason I have experience in both clinical neuroscience and psychology is because the two are so closely intertwined.
You will always be prone to psychosis, but it will greatly improve following DMT cessation.
Think of an addicted patient. They may be clean, but for the rest of their life they will be prone to using drugs because their brain has been altered to crave the drug at randomized intervals.
Same with DMT abuse, since receptors, sub-receptors, and neurotransmitters are permanently altered.

Me:

Well i mean i havent used it in over a year but thats only because im scared to break through, but i started smoking DMT at age 17 an im 27 now.
But like honestly ive smoked DMT in the heavy 100's range. I had a bit of an episode when I hit 19 but i understand exactly what happened. Its classic patternicity overload with noticing synhronicities and having manic bursts in creative associations, my brain was making a large amount of "this is to that as that is to this." connections.
how it works is you get a lot of bullshit asymmetrical bullshit ideas(noise) and one novel and creative one, kind of like 1 good one for every five wacky ones. It was a madness sure but from what ive learned a rather creative one, but i stilled smoked dmt and had tons of break throughs and never had a similar episode. I cant imagine im suddenly gonna start buying into narratives my mind
creates based on synchronicities i might experience.
I will see it as a false positive.
I am interested in dmt because the visionary states are something im interested in for artistic reasons because im part of an art moment trying to recreate the visionary elements like hyperbolic geometry, hallucinatory form constants and motifs and archetypes like the jester and clown entities that are commonly reported.
I can assure you DMT isnt fun and most people are trying to use it in a more spiritual type approach.
Im just saying why am I not experiencing any sort of brain damage from the excessive amounts of DMT I have consumed?
Is it possible there might be other variables that keep someone stable.
I mean a good analogy is that psychedelics increase the entropy in our mind and to reverse it you just have to use certain behavioral methods that reverse entropy.
Im rather ordered and i intimately understand the difference between that and chaos.
Right now im focusing heavily on my classical music study but i dont see any reason to swear off using it.
its part of the work I do.
Like DMT is the one drug no one is every gonna crave. If you have broken through on DMT, Its terrifying. You think you died. But you are witnessing something incredibly astonishing and impossible in its visual complexity.
Its not a crave or an addiction.
its more like respect and fascination.
Ive been trying to build up the courage to have another experience with it but i have been way too chicken.

Josh:

I can tell you, without a speck of hesitation. do not engage in DMT use. Its not addictive, in that you are correct, as no hallucinogenics or psychedelics posses a true affinity for addiction. (most addictions are a result of pleasure experience by an individual as a result of manipulation of the mesolimbic dopamine pathway or the GABA receptors), but DMT is... unique, per se. It
possesses an, and i hesitate with this word, almost "telepathic" property (think Charles Xavier's ability to control minds in X-Men). It puts its users in what i can describe as a psychic illusion, making them believe they have ascended to a higher, more elevated level of consciousness on the drug, and that they are now psychically on par with a celestial deity such as God.
However, this illusion dissipates, leading to reinforcement and dosing to uphold the new reality they believe they now have accessed, when they actually are in the EXACT SAME reality they were in before, just with "goggles" on their eyes.
Do not, ever, reengage in DMT use.
Researchers have NEVER seen a psychedelic so powerful, and i have personally seen restrained individuals trying to kill the nurses and physicians and Children's (sometimes critical individuals under 30 are brought to the children's hospital I work at) because they believe they are making "blood sacrifices so [they] can live."
Thorazine, Xanax, Ativan, Clozaril, you name it.
None of these drugs in normal doses are helping these people.
The regimen that is now the "go-to" is an H&A-Cocktail, which is a mixture of haloperidol (haldol) and lorazepam (ativan)
These ease the hallucinations and delusions, but it is not a mixture we can prescribe for an individual to take home for two reasons.
1.) They are prone to abusing drugs, and while nobody in a sane mind would abuse haldol, ativan is an active target for drug abuse and can cause POWERFUL addictions.
2.) Ativan and Haldol in combination is very lethal in overdose, so if they randomally enter a psychosis and decide to hurt themselves, we can't really reverse the sedation as well as with a narcotive.
For instance, in an oxy overdose a nurse can push IV/IM Narcan and you'll see the patient wake up in a minute. In a benzo overdose, even though benzodiazepines are relatively safe in overdose, their combination with a powerful anti psychotic lowers the ceiling dose for death, AKA the addition of Haldol makes Ativan more lethal in terms of suppressing breathing.
Not as bad as Ativan and, say, Dilaudid, or another Opioid, but still bad.
You must understand you are altering the chemistry in your brain to an extent that modern doctors will NEVER attempt.
Years ago, Cocaine was prescribed frequently. Overweight? Here's a methamphetamine prescription. Anxious? Try some Secobarbital. Cough keeping up the Mrs? Try some Heroin, Even LSD was extensively looked at (too much, in my opinion, see project MKULTRA, I still know a guy suffering from that mess.
But DMT? That was a ONE and DONE experiment. I understand your art movement and I truly appreciate new and innovative art, but achieving this through a drug is not the way to go.
I know the general consensus is that the best artists are in constant pain and on drugs, but this is not true anymore. In the 1900's, aka the "Decades of Drug", where heroin, LSD, Methamphetamine, Cocaine, and Barbiturates were widely prescribed, DMT terrified researchers and it was seen as "too dangerous and unpredictable for further study."
I can tell you psychopharmacologists LOVE their drugs, especially psychedelics, I have a friend working on psilocybin research for medical use, and he is fascinated by its new and unseen healing properties in certain disorders, but even he, a psychopharmacologist, wouldn't be apart of a study that gives people DMT. There may be study's on people who consume their own DMT, but I doubt you will find a study where we actually provide people with DMT.
It's too much of a risk.

Me:

I've been around alot of different forums and communities where people have been experimenting with it, from what i have seen its rather rare that people might have an episode. Isnt it entirely possible people who have adverse effects just have different brain chemistries or are predisposed to developing those conditions.? I've met many people who have used it in large frequencies and never experienced any kind of episode.
The cases you are citing seem rare compared to the general population who are taking part. Obviously people need to take extreme caution when experimenting with it.
Even for me my episode had a lot to do with life stresses and had attachments to certain people that was kind of a burden on me emotionally.
I never experienced any impulse to cause myself harm.

Josh:

I understand it was like putting your creativity on steroids, I do. But it is destroying your brain and never forget that ANY DMT preparation will always be impure. I mean even cocaine is used pharmaceutically. albeit a small amount.
And Its possible, but unlikely. You have to understand it is like playing roulette at a casino. On any given day, you (as in general) could decide you want to die, for whatever purpose. Or, you could decide to meditate on your visions. It all depends on subconscious thoughts. The subconscious is dangerous when accessed and even the best psychiatrists touch the subconscious with great care as it is beyond fragile.
DMT brings the subconscious into the conscious. The brain separates the two as one grows up for a reason, and merging the two to experience a "new reality" is something the brain doesnt have a contingency plan for- it never prepared for this. By breaking down these barriers, You're opening the floodgates to a myriad of disastrous, or peaceful, thoughts and issues that you didn't even know existed in you.
From a neuroscience perspective, we aren't even remotely close to completely comprehending the brain and we have yet to precisely locate the conscious or subconscious of a human being but we possess proof they exist.
The brain is more intelligent and put up those walls for a reason, the two were never supposed to merge because the result could be disatrous.

Me:

I feel like there must be some sort of mental priming people can do to limit potential harm that might come from experimentation. I have been brainstorming ways to do that, I,e techniques to make sure youre completely grounded in objective reality to take part.
For me I have never used it in large frequencies except for back in 2013 where it felt as if I was uncovering an ultimate truth of some kind. But it was pretty harmless. And to me honestly im glad I went through it because I learned a lot about myself and was able to let go of the attachments I had to people that was causing stress in my life. I came out the other end happier and more content with life.
And dont forget I used it many times after that experience and it never peeled my banana, I just come back from the trip and say "well that was beautiful" and then go about my day. I never pay much attention to what ever ideas I get on it. And if I do get an idea its always grounded in reality. I just feel inspired.
I really would love to still research the visionary states, This is a great article someone with a phd in religious studies wrote featuring my DMT jester art piece and other prominent DMT artists trying to depict the visionary experience.
its extremely important to me and my work.
https://kahpi.net/meeting-the-dmt-trip-entities-in-art/





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Edited by SleepyE (03/04/21 12:44 PM)


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
    #27237872 - 03/04/21 10:53 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

You nailed peterson, I agree.

OP: Great rebuttal/conversation.


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #27238127 - 03/05/21 04:53 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:

OP: Great rebuttal/conversation.



thanks! just trying to square my experiences with everyone elses to better understand


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