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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
#27080003 - 12/09/20 07:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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For me I really didnt interpret what happen to be as detrimental as something labeled "psychosis" though I'm sure you could classify it like that. And as I said many factors were involved that contributed to it like certain life stressors I had. I really dont believe there is one single cause in my case. I was enormously emotionally attached to a person and it was becoming an extreme burden on my psyche and needed an earth quake to shake it and i received that, and it rendered me more content afterwards. I know its clichè but I have since interpreted it more as an awakening experience and was a net positive for me when all was said and done. It's like a process of working through emotional trauma. Though its too complex to really get anyones opinion on it because they just want to impose whatever beliefs and assumptions they have about said experiences. I plan to resume my exploration just as I resumed it after that experience. I personally believe it's not a risk for me at least based on what I know about myself and how it effects me.
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 08:46 AM)
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Socrateshroom
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
#27080031 - 12/09/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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OP, I agree with wolf8312, probably no reason to delete that conversation it was an interesting read.
I agree that cautioning others about psychedelics is the responsible thing to do. Not everyone is prepared to take psychedelics and many people do not have the ability to handle an overwhelming experience. This isn't a reflection of the substance but evidence of a state of internal disarray of the individual (emotional, spiritual, psychological etc).
And although it rarely leads to anything life-threatening, there is a small set of people who do get violent or turn to self-harm in that panic. But more people get violent on alcohol so it's not something that is inherent to psychedelics nor is it even likely on them.
Anyway, I think the issues I, and many others, had with him was his claims of how DMT destroys specific receptors and leaves lasting physical damage. Although I've never used DMT, I enjoy doing research on psychedelics (both anecdotal and peer-reviewed) and I've never come across any claims of the sort. Did he make a breakthrough discovery about the neuro-physical affects of DMT? I highly doubt it. And there isn't anything out there in the way of real research on the matter of DMT's physical detriments to the brain and cns. (And if there is, please give me a source I'd love to read it).
So one can only conclude that he literally fabricated this idea that DMT is neurodegenerative because he believes a bad trip and/or psychotic episode necessitates neurodegeneration.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom]
#27080088 - 12/09/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Socrateshroom said: Anyway, I think the issues I, and many others, had with him was his claims of how DMT destroys specific receptors and leaves lasting physical damage. Although I've never used DMT, I enjoy doing research on psychedelics (both anecdotal and peer-reviewed) and I've never come across any claims of the sort. Did he make a breakthrough discovery about the neuro-physical affects of DMT? I highly doubt it. And there isn't anything out there in the way of real research on the matter of DMT's physical detriments to the brain and cns. (And if there is, please give me a source I'd love to read it).
So one can only conclude that he literally fabricated this idea that DMT is neurodegenerative because he believes a bad trip and/or psychotic episode necessitates neurodegeneration.
Hummm. Must have missed that part. That does sound highly unlikely!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
#27080095 - 12/09/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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honestly my experiences seemed much closer to a concept like this https://lonerwolf.com/kundalini-awakening/#h-is-kundalini-awakening-dangerous
compared to a random meaningless episode of "madness"
but what do i know im just guessing i guess. and these kinds of people dont seem to want to accept that you can have a benefit from such an experience
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
#27080159 - 12/09/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SleepyE said: honestly my experiences seemed much closer to a concept like this https://lonerwolf.com/kundalini-awakening/#h-is-kundalini-awakening-dangerous
compared to a random meaningless episode of "madness"
but what do i know im just guessing i guess. and these kinds of people dont seem to want to accept that you can have a benefit from such an experience
Are you sure you are talking about clinical psychosis though and not just tripping balls? Were you ever hospitalized? Best portrayal of paranoid psychosis I have ever seen was not the bullshit- A beautiful mind (though the book is seriously one of my all time favorites and nothing like the movie) but the Truman Show.
How it showed the protagonist as the victim of a great universal secret which everyone but he himself were all in on, was for myself unnervingly reminiscent of delusional psychosis. The more he attempts to discover and expose the lie, the more the world closes in on him and tries to physically prevent him from getting to the truth (in reality the point where one is restrained and driven to hospital bellowing about having seen it).
But even that movie doesn’t convey the abject terror of paranoid psychosis.
Possible this guy is full of shit, but on the other hand... DMT is seriously brain bogglingly powerful. There were times when I wondered how it was possible I could even survive such sheer intensity, so who really knows the long term effects of smoking it, but he should definitely provide evidence to back up his claims.
If he really is a neuroscientist though hard to believe he would be lying publicly. Some people online will pretend to be all sorts of different things! Grizzled military combat veteran is a classic!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (12/09/20 09:49 AM)
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312]
#27080171 - 12/09/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was never hospitalized, diagnosed or put on medication. The whole process I went through was integration of experiences which were significant to my daily life and events. The real John nash apparently had a pattern detection problem and apparently he believed everyone wearing a red tie was part of a Russian conspiracy or something. Cant remember the real story
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
#27080192 - 12/09/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I had the Truman show syndrome and believed strangers secretly knew who I was but pretended not to. So I played along with it because I assumed I was part of a play or something. But that's just a simple patternicity error.
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 10:08 AM)
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
#27080228 - 12/09/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you want to compare my experience to a movie it would be the movie "Pi" At the climax of the ultimate truth experience I had an internal dialogue with voices which I believed to be all the significant people I've known in my life and they were saying that source split into positive and negative or south, and I could hear the voice of the person i was deeply attached to (her name was southern.) The voice said after source split he began chasing his tail in a circle until he had a brilliant idea to break the cycle and spiral out into a new direction and that created two circles which were represented by infinity. They said this pattern repeats over and over in the universe like the fibannaci sequence so I started trying to look for that pattern in all things using "this Is to that, as that is to this.". It was a form of numerology. I interpreted that as saying 0 = infinity and had to do with concepts like duality vs wholeness
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 10:35 AM)
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] 1
#27080229 - 12/09/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SleepyE said: I had the Truman show syndrome and believed strangers secretly knew who I was but pretended not to. So I played along with it because I assumed I was part of a play or something. But that's just a simple patternicity error.
was that only while tripping though, or for a prolonged period after? Because to my mind that does sound like a good reason to avoid psychedelics, personally. It may have worked out for you but I think all the characters and stories one encounters on this site are actually a very good example of why we should be more cautious of proclaiming psychedelic virtues to random internet strangers who are often young and impressionable, and sometimes quite unstable.
Not to say you don't or shouldn't get anything out of your dmt trips, but I do think the risk is underplayed by many on here. Personally I've never had lasting problems from tripping (also haven't done dmt yet) but I've seen LSD completely unmake an otherwise sane friend of mine, nearly resulting in death. He's avoided psychedelics ever since and has never had an episode like that again though, so it's even possible to my mind that some people just can't handle those changes in their brain in a safe manner
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
#27080235 - 12/09/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I dose high doses of lsd frequently and am not bothered in the slightest
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
#27080270 - 12/09/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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you personally are probably fine then, but I totally get why no health professional would recommend use to anyone. although I think this specific guy was probably bullshitting lol
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Ezuma]
#27080378 - 12/09/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I forgot its hopeless trying to explain my experiences and have anyone guide me to understand what exactly took place. Most are painfully ignorant and lack experience. I understand people do have terms for it like a psycho-spiritual emergency. But regardless, it's in the past and I have left go of it and integrated it in a way that is comfortable for me.
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: wolf8312] 2
#27080524 - 12/09/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said:
And to be fair, I would warn my own kid against using DMT or psychedelics. That doesn't make me an idiot worthy of contempt or demonizing, I don't think, as to my mind it's just me being responsible! He probably feels similarly towards wider society in general.
FWIW I don't call him an idiot because he's warning against using it. It's because he's conflating a whole lot of rubbish together that has nothing to do with DMT itself to support his blanket warning. Go back and see where he talks about "touching the subconscious" being incredible dangerous because of blah blah and blah. This is not even remotely accurate, and it isn't based in any real science either. Never mind oral DMT being active all by itself, and that it destroys serotonin receptors - just rubbish.
No, I call him an idiot because he's wrong about so much of what he said that it leaves little opportunity for him to actually be correct about any of the rest of it.
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#27080537 - 12/09/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hes probably just some punk kid that thinks he knows everything. Hes not interested in considering anyones point of view. He just wants to tell you how "it is." What an arrogant tool
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 02:05 PM)
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
#27080547 - 12/09/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I regret reaching out to him, he was making claims over instagram that dmt causes brain damage and claiming hes a neuroscientist so I wanted to see what he was on about, yada yada yada hes a bullshit artist
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 01:55 PM)
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Socrateshroom
сталкер


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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] 1
#27080579 - 12/09/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SleepyE said: I regret reaching out to him, he was making claims over instagram that dmt causes brain damage and claiming hes a neuroscientist so I wanted to see what he was on about, yada yada yada hes a bullshit artist 
Everyone's a neuroscientist-politician-genius-engineer-doctor-super genius-god-king on those social media websites.
They are, for the most part, a dumpster for the ego to feed.
Anyway, assuming that he is as young as I think (early 20s), it also seems to come with the territory. I was an idiot in my early 20s too, just in a different way than this guy. And it took me a psychedelic experience and some maturing before I went from an idiot to slightly less of an idiot. Perhaps he just needs time and some eye opening experiences to get his ego in check.
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom]
#27080583 - 12/09/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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The interaction I had with him left a bad taste in my mouth... fuck em. Got my new jewel scale so, let the research resume!
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
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Socrateshroom
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE]
#27080624 - 12/09/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SleepyE said: The interaction I had with him left a bad taste in my mouth... fuck em. Got my new jewel scale so, let the research resume!
Off topic: I just saw you have a video on your youtube channel about reconciling Jordan Peterson and Terrence Mckenna (two of my favorite people/writers/"artists"). Would be cool to have a chat about that. Wondering what you mean by the need to reconcile them (I see some marked differences in their beliefs but nothing I believe to be too drastic).
Back on topic: keep the exploration going!
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: Socrateshroom] 1
#27080666 - 12/09/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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From what I understand jordan peterson has a philosophy that dominance hierarchies have a purpose and we must coexist within them, and terence McKenna believes they should be dismantled and we should walk away from them. I was thinking maybe Jordan's ideas work in this moment of time because not everyone is on the same page so we are less likely to cooperate to a specific goal, but as time progresses and consciousness evolves our values would moreso line up to terence McKenna vision.
So like petersons ideas are where we are now, and Terence ideas are where we are headed in the future, like some sort of singularity.
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (12/09/20 03:11 PM)
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Socrateshroom
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Re: Neuroscientist said DMT is too dangerous to use or study [Re: SleepyE] 2
#27080704 - 12/09/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SleepyE said: From what I understand jordan peterson has a philosophy that dominance hierarchies have a purpose and we must coexist within them, and terence McKenna believes they should be dismantled and we should walk away from them. I was thinking maybe Jordan's ideas work in this moment of time because not everyone is on the same page so we are less likely to cooperate to a specific goal, but as time progresses and consciousness evolves our values would moreso line up to terence McKenna vision.
So like petersons ideas are where we are now, and Terence ideas are where we are headed in the future, like some sort of singularity.
I see. In that way, one representative of the now and the other of the future, it would indeed be easy to reconcile them.
I think Peterson is absolutely right that dominance hierarchies exist, we see it in nature. And part of our nature is the inherent social network that we exist in. So that social network, following what seems to be inherent nature, will arrange itself according to those dominance hierarchies.
Terrence may not have fully seen it, but he himself lived within such hierarchies. He envisioned the plants, nature, etc as the top of the dominance hierarchy. This seems evident by his Food of the Gods book.
Nonetheless, it seems that Peterson's representation is that of the divine masculine while Mckenna's ideas manifest the divine feminine. Terrence talks about what he calls "dominator" societies and "partnership" societies. And, like you've mentioned, he believed that the "partnership" societies should be the (no pun intended) dominating type of society (dominance hierarchy of its own, interestingly enough). But I don't think Peterson (or the ideas of the divine masculine) disagree here.
I believe that Peterson's idea of "dominance" hierarchy is misconstrued. I don't believe he is promoting the idea of a "dominator" society akin to what Mckenna discussed. What Peterson is expressing is the fact that our universe is specifically ordered (even if we can't perceive that order). This order has, by definition, something that is dominant and something that is dominated (although I feel dominated is the wrong word and assistant would be more accurate.). Even in a "partnership" society, there must be, for example, someone who is tasked with organizing, say, an event. Then someone tasked with the food and another tasked with the music (and so forth). And right there we have a hierarchy of what could be seen as dominance (the "organizer" being the dominant figure, manifesting their plan, while everyone else assists). And that is also the masculine (manifesting order).
So I don't think Peterson meant dominant in the way we think of it now (as in having power over another) but dominant as in being at a specific level of organization.
In that way, I think they both believe in the same thing. They both believe in the flow of "partnership" societies. Even in Terrence's ideal societies, hierarchies would be fundamental to the structure, they would just be expressed in a different (perhaps more feminine) way.
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