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Offline3some
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Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub (with pics)
    #27071508 - 12/04/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)



I did this to compare the speed of pinning and growth between different varieties of cube. Everything is prepared using same material, same timeline, same conditions, from agar to bulk. Different spores obviously. Didn't fan nor spray. All holes closed during initial colonization and opened since casing.

What I wasn't expecting to see was the difference in side pinning. The substrate shrunk faster on the TOC (left) side and lots of side pins. KSSS (right) colonized the casing layer very quickly but slow to pin with hardly any side pins.

Thought I should share.


--------------------
Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


Edited by 3some (12/05/20 07:36 PM)


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OfflineHaywire
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: 3some]
    #27071752 - 12/04/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

although, it's a fun experiment. you're not really comparing anything here.
you're doing a multispore grow, so there's no control over the genetics.
also, you're growing two varieties in one tub.

but the sidepinnnig is indeed striking.


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Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto


My grows :mushroom2: Outdoor patches


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Offline3some
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: Haywire]
    #27073039 - 12/05/20 07:25 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I don't get it.


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Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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OfflineHaywire
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: 3some]
    #27073069 - 12/05/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

because there are so many variables you don't have control over, you cannot draw conclusions.
there's no repetition. there's the genetic variability. there's two varieties in one tub. ...


--------------------
Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto


My grows :mushroom2: Outdoor patches


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Offline3some
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: Haywire]
    #27073217 - 12/05/20 09:37 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I get you now. Of course I am not drawing conclusions like TOC is more prone to side pins or KSSS are faster at colonizing the substrate. That's just observation in this instance.

What I am trying to say is fruiting conditions are dependent on varieties (or even strains from the same variety). There are just many opinions out there about fruiting conditions that assumes all cube varieties (bar PE) to be having the same needs. Telling people with conviction that they need more fae or less misting, etc. I believe unless people are growing clones, like you said, it is all trail and error.

It wasn't my original objective but the result (though just from a single experiment), due to the conditions being constant across the two varieties, clearly shows that it is possible to do everything "right" and still get disappointing results simply because not all cubes are the same when it comes to fruiting conditions.


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Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: 3some]
    #27073285 - 12/05/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What I am trying to say is fruiting conditions are dependent on varieties (or even strains from the same variety). There are just many opinions out there about fruiting conditions that assumes all cube varieties (bar PE) to be having the same needs. Telling people with conviction that they need more fae or less misting, etc.




But that’s what he’s saying, you can’t draw conclusions like this because it’s a multispore grow, it’s totally random. You could do the same experiment again using the same two syringes and have the genetics of the KSSS dry up the tub first and side pin like crazy.


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I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







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OfflineHaywire
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: Greens21]
    #27073327 - 12/05/20 10:59 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I get what OP is saying though.
I mean, look at the those side pins stopping right at the demarcation line.


--------------------
Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto


My grows :mushroom2: Outdoor patches


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: Haywire]
    #27073328 - 12/05/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I don’t doubt that different genetics can require different conditions, I just interpreted it as OP saying that TOC requires different conditions than KSSS because of this result, and I don’t think that’s necessarily true. It just so happens that the way these spores germinated, sample A sucked up more water than sample B, but that’s not to say that if he did it again it wouldn’t be the other way around. All this shows is that multispore grows are random, which we already knew


--------------------
I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







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Offline3some
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: Greens21]
    #27074134 - 12/05/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

If the randomness parameter of MS grow is that wide, then why bother having so many varieties of cubes?

I understand if one female Rottweiler turned out bigger or more aggressive than another female Rottweiler. And if bred with the same male, both have offsprings that are opposite in size. For whatever reason.

Just that I can't imagine seeing a Pekingese that is given the same diet and environment as another Rottweiler turning out to be bigger or more aggressive than the Rottweiler. At adulthood for both of course, just in case :wink:


--------------------
Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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OfflineKromazone
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: 3some]
    #27076711 - 12/07/20 08:06 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting and very relivent to my current situation, thnxx:thumbup:


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Offline3some
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: Kromazone]
    #27079466 - 12/08/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

A plateful of heartache



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Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: 3some]
    #27079545 - 12/08/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Is that the sub flipped upside down?


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Offline3some
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: Greens21]
    #27079579 - 12/08/20 09:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Yup. I can't stand it anymore. Got rid of all the disappointments.


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Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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OfflineCocaineBuffet
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: 3some]
    #27079595 - 12/08/20 09:58 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

To confirm this was a MS grow with TOC and KSSS? If that is the case you are dealing with too many variables to make any scientific conclusion.

If you were dealing with clones/isolates that had significantly different attributes your study would be more interesting.

This is just a roll of 2 dice.


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: CocaineBuffet]
    #27079598 - 12/08/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Did the KSSS side ever pin? I’ve never seen shrooms snake all over the bottom of a sub like that


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Offline3some
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: CocaineBuffet]
    #27079611 - 12/08/20 10:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CocaineBuffet said:
To confirm this was a MS grow with TOC and KSSS? If that is the case you are dealing with too many variables to make any scientific conclusion.

If you were dealing with clones/isolates that had significantly different attributes your study would be more interesting.

This is just a roll of 2 dice.




It's MS grow. I know there are variables but are the variance that wide within the same variety?


--------------------
Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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Offline3some
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: Greens21]
    #27079617 - 12/08/20 10:13 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Greens21 said:
Did the KSSS side ever pin? I’ve never seen shrooms snake all over the bottom of a sub like that




KSSS side did pin and gave around 400g wet fruits on first flush. Very healthy too.



The TOC side gave around 500g wet if you count all the side pins, which amounted to 350g.


--------------------
Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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Offline3some
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Re: Experiment: TOC & KSSS side by side fruiting in monotub [Re: 3some]
    #27079643 - 12/08/20 10:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

See here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10560039

The Truth About Multispore vs. Strain Isolation:
Agar allows you to work specifically with your spores but it costs more money and takes much more time. However, proper agar work will give you consistency from one grow to the next.

Multispore inoculation is a turkey shoot. You never know what you are going to get. Mother nature is unpredictable. If you intend to use multispore, it is suggested you work with a classic and/or popular cube variety. Cubes that have been popular for 10 or more years tend to be popular for a reason, and their genetics have probably been limited (in a good way) by being selectively bred over and over again... generation after generation. You are more likely to see consistent results via multispore, if you use a proven race.

The Truth About The Fastest Growing Cubes:
Some cube races and varieties are known to grow at a faster or slower rate, on average, than others. There is evidence which suggests the fastest cubensis races produce the smallest shrooms and the slower races and varieties produce the most bulky fungus. Ultimately it all seems to even out in the end (with a few exceptions). Also, the slow cubes more frequently display unique macroscopic characteristics (in other words, they are more likely to look noticeably different from other races) while the fast ones usually look like average (or smaller than average) cubes. It tends to take more time to grow a large or unique cube. If you are looking for a cube which produces a LOT of quick bulk, you may be looking for a long time... and you'd better work with agar.


--------------------
Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. :tongue2:

The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners


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