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Killian1
Stranger

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PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting
#27072792 - 12/05/20 12:22 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey guys, first time grower here. Placed my cakes into SGFC 11 days ago after a dunk a roll. Here is a picture of my first pin that has grown tremendously quick in 2 days compared to anything else I have on my other 5 cakes. Just curious if you think this is caused by lack of RH or if there is any other factors that are in my control that could be the cause. As I said, first time so any advice is greatly appreciated.
https://imgur.com/a/foQamFG
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Rafiikii



Registered: 11/17/10
Posts: 2,891
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Killian1]
#27072897 - 12/05/20 03:18 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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wouldn't worry about it much, shit happens. just keep fanning and misting, likely see some nice fruits in the near future.
-------------------- "You didn’t come into this world. You came out of it, like a wave from the ocean. You are no stranger here."  
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Sankhara
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Rafiikii]
#27072940 - 12/05/20 05:02 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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To me it looks like a mutant. But maybe things got a little dry.
Dont worry
-------------------- How would you rate the quality of my answer?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Sankhara] 1
#27073074 - 12/05/20 07:54 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Too wet. Also upload pictures here next time
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Sankhara
Trump's lost child


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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: bodhisatta]
#27073096 - 12/05/20 08:15 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Too wet. Also upload pictures here next time
Why would you say so bod? To your eyes Is it a small mushroom or a mutant?
Im interested in your analysis!
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bodhisatta 
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Sankhara]
#27073108 - 12/05/20 08:21 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's what happens when you drench mushrooms. The caps get super dark. They look super wet. And the caps pop open sometimes. Or they look wrinkled

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Sankhara
Trump's lost child


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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: bodhisatta]
#27073122 - 12/05/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: That's what happens when you drench mushrooms. The caps get super dark. They look super wet. And the caps pop open sometimes. Or they look wrinkled

Oh I see thanks!
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Mateja


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Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Killian1]
#27073154 - 12/05/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Killian1 said: Hey guys, first time grower here. Placed my cakes into SGFC 11 days ago after a dunk a roll. Here is a picture of my first pin that has grown tremendously quick in 2 days compared to anything else I have on my other 5 cakes. Just curious if you think this is caused by lack of RH or if there is any other factors that are in my control that could be the cause. As I said, first time so any advice is greatly appreciated.
https://imgur.com/a/foQamFG
You have identical environmental issues like another grower, pretty damaged surface conditions due to spraying and soaking cakes too much due to cakes drying out too fast. Check out this method of repairing damaged surface conditions I posted in the other thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27072738#27072738
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Killian1
Stranger

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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Mateja]
#27073730 - 12/05/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I see what you are saying. This morning the cap seemed to open already so clearly I must be doing something wrong. 
I struggled a lot because my cakes always appeared dry to me, so I sprayed a lot and apparently it was too much. I see you recommended removing the cakes from the fruiting chamber and attaching another verm layer. I have pinning on most of the other cakes, should I wait for those to do whatever they do, pick, and then try to reinvigorate? Or do u recommend I take out now.
Heres an example of the others:
Edited by Killian1 (12/05/20 03:17 PM)
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Mateja


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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Killian1]
#27073798 - 12/05/20 04:03 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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First of all I personally would never blame a new grower for failing to harvest cakes inside a SGFC. The real and 8nly issue with SGFC's has always been that's its one of the most ineffective FC's that's in circulation (imo it should have been taken out of modern home cultivation vocabulary long time ago) Imo it doesn't even deserve the name 'fruiting chamber' since the term 'fruiting chamber' implies a contrapment which is partially or mostly able to maintain fruiting conditions by its design. But since growers are required to perform CPR on that chamber up to 6 times a day just so it won't harm cakes beyond repair with its insanely unsuitable environment, it's like the opposite of what a fruiting chamber is suppose to be about. The more you need to stand by and intervene with spray bottles to keep the grow alive the more you should be reminded about how insanely inefficient that contrapment really is in behaving like a fruiting chamber.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Killian1]
#27073819 - 12/05/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Killian1 said:

I struggled a lot because my cakes always appeared dry to me, so I sprayed and apparently it was too much.
Heres an example of the others:

What you describe about cakes looking dry then you feel you most then too much, this is i a nutshell the core problem with the SGFC and always have been.
This is how my cakes look when I totally neglect them and I'm really not trying to be an arrogant Sshole about it but this is more or less the standard look of my pinsets and best of all is its totally maintenence free, I mist a couple of times a week if I feel like it, misting is very much something I do cauze I feel like it, it's not something that becomes an ultimatum like woth the SGFC "mist several times a day and if you god for it forget to mist every few hours then say a prayer and hope for the best because next time you're in the grow area by your sgfc you're gonna see a whole lot of blue, bruised cakes because the climate they're in is (no joke and I'm not exaggerating either) but the climate inside the average/typical SGFC climate at its best is as good as a cardboard box or possible the sgfc will still have slightly worse conditions than a plain cardboard box.
Did you read the link I sent you from the other thread referring to my post where I explain to the other grower how he/she can easily rescue the cakes and have the damaged surface conditions repaired in no time? The fact that I have specific procedures all worked out for years revolving around rescuing cakes that have had their surface conditions seriously compromised by the unforgivable climate generated inside the SGFC.
Read that link and tell me what you think
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Mateja]
#27073873 - 12/05/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you can't get cakes in a sgfc right idk what to say. It's a great FC
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Killian1
Stranger

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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Mateja]
#27073895 - 12/05/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I did read your other post and it looks very good. Forgive my ignorance, but I was wondering what to do about the current pins. Do I just leave them as is and coat the cakes with the moist vermiculite and move to a 0 FAE environment now? Or should I wait for the pins to finish growing, and then try to fix the damaged surface.
Edited by Killian1 (12/05/20 11:37 PM)
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MySillyUmRuns
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Killian1]
#27074033 - 12/05/20 06:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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cracking is from not enough moisture
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3some
Haagse Harry



Registered: 04/20/20
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Quote:
MySillyUmRuns said: cracking is from not enough moisture
Dude, I don't mean to be a dick but don't confuse a fellow newbie unless you can include something to support your statement. It is not easy trying to start something on your own with nothing but feedbacks from the forum. Too many contradicting advices (mostly from dick waving exercises) will only confuse the poor newbie. Just let the veterans help him out.
-------------------- Ask me about growing yeast, mold and bacteria. I'm very experienced. The first post any newbie should read even before acquiring spores: Pastywhyte's Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: bodhisatta]
#27074532 - 12/06/20 03:29 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: If you can't get cakes in a sgfc right idk what to say. It's a great FC
If you had a bicycle that needed screws tightened every few hours and the chain lubed up to 6 times per day only so the bike will survive being damaging beyond repair. I understand that you would call that a good bike but this isn't really even a debate. A contraption having the words 'fruiting chamber' in its name has to basically be able to look after your cakes even if you go away to jail for 24h or you go to visin your granny. If by the time you come home your substrates are showing clear signs of distress due to extremely hostile environment then I guess 8 don't know what to tell you either. It's as much a mushroom fruiting chamber as whatever container you can possibly think of that can fit cskes in it.
And then you have the Water Tub. I'm seeing almost 100% success rate with cakes but the most important thing that that separates it from other contrapments for cakes is that in addition to extremely high and consistent success you will also start to experience cakes producing so abundantly that it's practically not even possible for me to improve my cake grows (now how weird is that statement? Not being able to improve cause you're growing at the outer limits of what's possible with the method used 
  With 6-9 cakes I get almost wall to wall flushes inside 45L tubs. Again and again with minimal maintenence except misting a few times a week or once a day when Im bored and want to to prrtent that I can somehow improve results by misting once a day at the right time but so far I haven't been able to get cakes to produce more than what's physically possible.
These 6 cakes contain a combined amount of around 180g of food (oatmeal) that's how effective this method is. I'm harvesting kilos of fresh fruits from substrates that are so tiny you can put one in your mouth.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Mateja]
#27074692 - 12/06/20 07:03 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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A sgfc is like a bike you have to mist once or twice a day. Are your teeth broken because you have to brush them twice a day?
You can leave a sgfc alone over an entire weekend too
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Josex
#cheat_code


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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: bodhisatta]
#27074755 - 12/06/20 07:57 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well obviously a lot of new growers fuck up their cakes in a SGFC either by overmisting or by not doing it at all. They might as well skip making a zillion holes and dicking around with perlite when it is obvious there are simpler and more effective ways to grow cakes. Our friend's cakes speak for themselves.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Josex]
#27074758 - 12/06/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I mean my cake fruiting tek doesn't use a sgfc but to say it doesn't work means operator error. Sgfc is what I used in college with a full time job on top of it.
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Josex
#cheat_code


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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: bodhisatta]
#27074789 - 12/06/20 08:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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The shelf and baggie system you mean? I'm currently fruiting some bottles like that, can't get easier and more full proof than that, certainly way easier and less trouble than a SGFC.
On the subject of the SGFC, I've always had a hard time understanding why such a small substrate would need of such a big chamber with so many holes when a cake's FAE needs are sufficiently covered in a smaller chamber with far less air exchange, hence less maintanance required/less likely beginners are to fail.
More air is always a good thing yes, but do most noobs know how to keep optimal humidity on the surface of the cakes to make up for what it is lost as such a rapid rate? Looks like most of them have no idea. Also I believe perlite doesn't do much as far as raising the RH is concerned, you still have to babysit your grow and cram it full of cakes, otherwise things get dry fast.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Josex]
#27074794 - 12/06/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well part of the directions is to cram it with cakes.
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: bodhisatta]
#27074803 - 12/06/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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True that, I think that's part of the problem, very few do that. I can't remember the last time I saw a SGFC crammed full of cakes.
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GypsyBastard
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Josex]
#27074989 - 12/06/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you guys just nailed it. In order for SGFCs to work, they have to actually be a SGFC; that is filled to capacity with multiple cakes. Trying to find a container that's size works for the amount of cakes you have is a tedious and almost completely unmentioned aspect. It's usually more of a get size "x" container to make it and then use as needed. I'm not saying it's a perfect method or the most efficient but like any tool, in order to work it has to be used properly. Right tool for the right job or risk damage to the tool and the job.
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Shroombitz
Not entitled to a title


Registered: 11/19/20
Posts: 176
Loc: Europe
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Josex]
#27076546 - 12/07/20 04:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: True that, I think that's part of the problem, very few do that. I can't remember the last time I saw a SGFC crammed full of cakes.
That sounds like one side of what I assume went wrong with my first and currently ongoing grow
It seems as my small and lonely cake didn't get enough RH in my SGFC, I was trying to reach a glistering surface with beads and stuff by misting more, but the Mycelium wasn't healthy anymore to be able to maintain surface tension to be hydrophobic so I ended up over saturating it. I was considering to toss it, as stopping to mist would dry it out and misting it more would damage it further, but I put it in a closed tub with water yesterday and hope for its resurrection
Comparing SGFC with a HC (Water tub whatever) is pretty difficult I guess, both are pretty extreme in a way as the HC maximizes RH and the SGFC maximizes FAE.
For me as noob I guess SGFC seemed to be easy in maintenance and mostly failproof in the beginning, but in reality things aren't that easy. For one part the SGFC is lacking scalability as for actually controll the rapid evaporation easily, to do so I would need to tape the holes in the right and cumbersome way, for the HC on the other side it would be as simple as opening or closing the lid more to some degree. And as for the size of the tub, how I understand it, a SGFC would need to be right for the amount of cakes/substrate inside, but that wouldn't be an issue with a HC, would it? Just my
-------------------- Ask not what your shrooms can do for you, ask what you can do for your shrooms.
Edited by Shroombitz (12/07/20 06:00 AM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: Shroombitz]
#27076554 - 12/07/20 04:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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What new growers tend not to realize is that humidity is only part of the equation. Fresh air exchange and bright light are by far more important than saturation humidity, which prevents fruiting. I've left shotgun terrariums with absolutely no misting for over a week to find cakes covered in fruits.
Most problems new growers experience with SGFC are related to not drilling holes in the bottom. That's the most important place for the holes. Per the laws of physics, water evaporates UP, away from gravity. This evaporation causes air to be drawn in through the bottom holes, where it rises through the perlite, absorbing moisture as it goes. This is how you get humidity and air exchange, much like what happens in a cow pasture when the sun comes out after a rain and shines on the cow manure.
All that aside, split caps are caused by a virus, rapid growth, or poor genetics. New growers often confuse 'split caps' with 'cracked caps'. Cracked caps are caused by low humidity, but are extremely rare in any terrarium, regardless of design. When one confronts split caps as the original poster in this thread, it's not a fruiting chamber issue. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Shroombitz
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Re: PF Tek SGFC Caps Splitting [Re: RogerRabbit] 1
#27076563 - 12/07/20 05:05 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I've left shotgun terrariums with absolutely no misting for over a week to find cakes covered in fruits.
I'm pretty sure you know what you are doing by large more than the average noob. And I'm guessing that you have left the Mycelium in perfect conditions, also you didn't say a word over the condition of the Mycelium after that week. Problems like mine seem to show rather over time (death by 1000 cuts), my cake fruited well in the SGFC at first, but seem to rather decline over time. Also I wouldn't be surprised to seem the fruiting in some cases more as a mean of survival of a dying Mycelium, because that is what fruiting is supposed to do, ensure survival of the species, isn't it?
So, the question is, how to make it more failsafe for noobs, not how pros can work under the hardest conditions as the OP may had problems adjusting RH / moisture content of the cake according to Bod.
FYI I followed the tek to spec, so I do have holes in the bottom of my SGFC as well and I didn't lack to consider FAE, RH or light im my equation yet things went South over time or at least didn't go as well as I hoped for, getting a decent first flush, a rather disappointing second one and finally a stalled cake now. Only getting 16g of dry biomass from over 1000g of substrate is telling me that there should be plenty of room for improvement. And I surely try to learn and apply as much as possible.
So if someone finds things that I should have done differently or, more importantly, anything that I should do differently from now on in my first grow, please point them out, I'm happy to learn
-------------------- Ask not what your shrooms can do for you, ask what you can do for your shrooms.
Edited by Shroombitz (12/07/20 02:40 PM)
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