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Tripglass420
Old Head back from hiatus


Registered: 01/27/20
Posts: 200
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Jars stalling (agar)
#27072588 - 12/04/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've had rye grass seed, brown rice whole, and wbs(mainly millet),
All using agar wedges to inoculate
Some have great growth and some stall out after shaking.
I do have them in an area that gets a decent amount of ambient light. Thinking maybe need to put in more dark less light?
I've also got some with foil over the top of jar and some without but all have filter tape covering any holes.
The only contam I've seen has been one of two looked like cobweb on the top layer or spawn.
Any ideas or clues what could help increase my spawn colonization please let me know
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Most likely there are unnoticed contams in the agar. It's not as foolproof as many make it out to be. Maybe take more transfers. Other possibilities are SAB technique, or grain is too wet.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: Most likely there are unnoticed contams in the agar. It's not as foolproof as many make it out to be.
Cobweb hiding on agar is probably the least likely scenario explaining why there's is cobweb in the growers jars. Contaminated grain jars are almost always compromised during inoculation due to poor sterile Tek.
Quote:
Tripglass420 said: Any ideas or clues what could help increase my spawn colonization please let me know
My advise at this point will be for you to work on your sterile Tek. But if I saw some pics of your agar cultures and grain jars then I might have more relevant/precise advise to offer you. Gl
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
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Re: Jars stalling (agar) [Re: Mateja]
#27072775 - 12/04/20 11:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Have all grains been inoculated from the same culture? If so then likely something shitty is in that culture,so no matter where it is put, there will follow problems.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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bloodcountess
Stranger


Registered: 10/04/20
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Tripglass420 said: I've had rye grass seed, brown rice whole, and wbs(mainly millet),
All using agar wedges to inoculate
Some have great growth and some stall out after shaking.
I do have them in an area that gets a decent amount of ambient light. Thinking maybe need to put in more dark less light?
I've also got some with foil over the top of jar and some without but all have filter tape covering any holes.
The only contam I've seen has been one of two looked like cobweb on the top layer or spawn.
Any ideas or clues what could help increase my spawn colonization please let me know
If the jars are stalling after shake, you have contamination, also why are you putting foil over the top of the jars? if you have done agar you most likely have also researched the basics of mushroom cultivation, therefore you should know that foil blocks gas exchange
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Quote:
bloodcountess said: If you have done agar you most likely have also researched the basics of mushroom cultivation, therefore you should know that foil blocks gas exchange
If you're gonna lecture others on the dynamics of 'gas exchange' then at least have some basic understanding yourself about the science you're preaching so confidently. Basic physics tells us that if the goal is to 'block GE' or in other words (to create a hermetically sealed opening) then aluminum foil would probably be one of the least suitable materials to use for this purpose
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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BrownBear
Warrior-Traveler



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Re: Jars stalling (agar) [Re: Mateja]
#27072987 - 12/05/20 06:17 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Imo, If you have cobweb mold it is most likely caused by poor sterile technique when inoculating the jars. The jars without any visible signs of contamination but are stalling after a shake could be fighting bacteria or caused by poor grain prep. Without pics for the tc's to use to assess your situation, figuring out your problem will be difficult .
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bloodcountess
Stranger


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Re: Jars stalling (agar) [Re: Mateja]
#27073274 - 12/05/20 10:22 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said:
Quote:
bloodcountess said: If you have done agar you most likely have also researched the basics of mushroom cultivation, therefore you should know that foil blocks gas exchange
If you're gonna lecture others on the dynamics of 'gas exchange' then at least have some basic understanding yourself about the science you're preaching so confidently. Basic physics tells us that if the goal is to 'block GE' or in other words (to create a hermetically sealed opening) then aluminum foil would probably be one of the least suitable materials to use for this purpose 
if that is the case then why is it always said in every single reputable tek and also said by roger rabbit to not keep foil on jars when doing colonization for gas exchange?
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MySillyUmRuns
MycoNerd


Registered: 06/28/20
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you definitely want to keep them in complete darkness with temps around 75F or so. There could be hidden contamination causing them to stall or your grains could be too wet or too dry
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
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Quote:
MySillyUmRuns said: you definitely want to keep them in complete darkness with temps around 75F or so. There could be hidden contamination causing them to stall or your grains could be too wet or too dry
This is fail, sorry.
Also as stated, aluminum foil isn't going to prevent gas exchange at all unless you wrap the edges with a sealant or tape. The reason I personally remove foil is because it allows condensation to occur on my poly filter which can be a vector for contaminates to penetrate. And also, I reuse the foil hats for the next batch of jars.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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1 year in this young hobby is leaps and bounds when it comes to optimizing, innovating, inventing, busting myths. The users and info you're quoting/referring to is on avergare older than Greece (relatively speaking) 
I can't speak for Tripglass420 but I know from personal experience the limitations of GE filters, I'm familiar with several types of filters, I know what potentially might block the GE completely and in what situations. From a logical point of view you should realize that unless you have considerable amount of 3xperi3mce in dealing with GE filters then there's no point for you to 'appeal to authority' especially if it contradicts new up to date information gathered through experience. Gl
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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bloodcountess
Stranger


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Re: Jars stalling (agar) [Re: Mateja]
#27074346 - 12/05/20 10:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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okay then i am officially retarded as far as that topic goes thanks for your input and setting me straight
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Tripglass420
Old Head back from hiatus


Registered: 01/27/20
Posts: 200
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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The agar is all growing exceptionally. I could take a transfer from any position with no worries.
I don't own a flowhood and also didn't use a SAB when inoculation.....not all jars are from the same plate but I'd say at least 4 jars per plate maybe 3 and it seems totally random as far as contam/stalling goes.....But that leads me to to my next point.
I did leave the foil on to just to have something to write dates and names o. It is on very loose but I do believe it had a negative effect on the GE .
Thanks for all the help and the different perspectives. This ever upgrading field of study amazes me and it seems like hearing others opinions and finding similarities in successes teaches the most efficient in my book.
Thanks again Happy shroomin!
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Tripglass420
Old Head back from hiatus


Registered: 01/27/20
Posts: 200
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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And yes "somedude" I am from the old school so keeping up with the new research is a subject of its own. Some old heads refuse to believe the youngings disproving theories but also these youngins have no respect for those who have had to trial/error to even figure out the knowledge for youngin to use. The legalization makes some kids have no clue what it was like buying vermeculite/perlite or making chocolates while looking for your shoulder.
But both parties have the knowledge cause something worked. So instead of bickering of why one is right and one is wrong.....coming together will help this community grow twice as fast.
More old heads are harder to conform when wrong though so youngins may be annoying but they know when take an L....old heads can't be wrong for shit.....that will hold us up the most.
So why is GE important in an unsealed environment (between the lid and the foil).....no tape no rubber band.....does that much GE get reduced? Does the amount of holes matter?
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
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The growth in jars could stall for a few reasons. Grains being to dry will absolutely end in stalled growth. Foil (or other things) can absolutely prevent Co2 from escaping and lead to stalled growth. One foil covering is not equal to another. If the foil is loosely setting on the jar like a contam umbrella you're probably fine. If it's creased and fitted to the jar it will choke out the culture. It could also be that you have contams and just aren't familiar with the signs. As always, pics help us diagnose what's going on.
Keeping spawn in the dark is not helpful.
Yes, the amount of holes matters.
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