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OfflineBallzagna
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob [Re: shadyshroomie]
    #27073815 - 12/05/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shadyshroomie said:
I am not an idiot.

I also am kinda retarded. 





Big relate lolol


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OfflineExstortion
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob [Re: Failboat]
    #27075176 - 12/06/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I’m not saying only GT can give me a spiritual experience. I’m just saying I had the best experiences on GT but also was my first trips.  I have white teacher coming. Can’t wait to try those.


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Invisibleshadyshroomie
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob [Re: Exstortion]
    #27151504 - 01/16/21 01:17 PM (3 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Exstortion said:
I’m not saying only GT can give me a spiritual experience. I’m just saying I had the best experiences on GT but also was my first trips.  I have white teacher coming. Can’t wait to try those.




Moderators... any way to move this thread to another forum such as the psychedelic experience?

As far as cultivation goes, I feel this thread is done. However, I am interested in having more conversation regarding the experience of different mushies and do not want to continue in the cultivation thread with conversation irrelevant to... well, cultivating :smile:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: shadyshroomie] * 1
    #27151536 - 01/16/21 01:47 PM (3 years, 12 days ago)

This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.

Reason:
I will acquiesce to the OP’s request although while I agree that the premise and much of the resultant conversation isn’t a cultivation topic, it’s not really much of a scientific one either.


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OfflineThe OCB
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27154364 - 01/17/21 10:08 PM (3 years, 11 days ago)

I was in Amsterdam in 2006 and my buddies and I bought 3 different strains wet. I went for something mild (cannot remember) my other boy got teachers and other dude Hawaiians. I remember having a conversation with the coffee shop girl and she for sure knew that all cubes were not cubes. Her level of knowledge was admirable and she would have never said a cube is a cube.

Dude who took Hawaiians was lit said everything was mad visual. I remember mine being not that visual but more of a bodyload. Other dude said he had mad thoughts. We had all tripped together before in the states as well and never had such discrepancies.  I’m a total noob to growing, but not tripping. There are some differences, but as Pasty so eloquently put it there’s a lot more to it than the name on a syringe.


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Invisibleshadyshroomie
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: The OCB]
    #27154912 - 01/18/21 08:21 AM (3 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:


Reason:
I will acquiesce to the OP’s request although while I agree that the premise and much of the resultant conversation isn’t a cultivation topic, it’s not really much of a scientific one either.







This is all I could think about seeing your response haha

I'm curious why you believe it isn't?
And more importantly... why did you feel it necessary to include?
Does it need to be a scientific conversation to be discussed on this forum?

Scientific Discussion, in my view, is any discussion of an observable phenomenon that aims to gain more insight into that phenomenon... insight that aids future discussions of investigation
Here is a relevant paper: Scientific Discussion



Quote:

The OCB said:
There are some differences, but as Pasty so eloquently put it there’s a lot more to it than the name on a syringe.

Pastywhyte said:
My issue is that people think that the name on the syringe is all there is to it; that’s a gross oversimplification at best and just flat out wrong at the worst. If you think GT give spiritual trips and no others can, that’s frankly retarded and isn’t worth discussing.




Certainly makes sense and I agree. Any absolutes used in this discussion I feel would be illogical
"This variety produces X experience" is far from conclusive or accurate

I feel discussing the tendencies of varieties to illicit certain experiences is more adequate
"X variety TENDS to produce shamanic spiritual journeys" or "Y variety tends to produce euphoric, colorful, visually pleasing experiences"


Quote:

mushhead said:
Mushrooms, however, have only 4 active compounds: psilocin, psilocybin, baoecystin, and norbaoecystin. Because there’s only 4 compounds there isn’t a whole lot of room for variation.




I was unaware of baoecystin and norbaoecystin. "TIL" haha
This makes sense why there is much less variation than cannabis with 80+ actives
Yet, varying levels of 4 compounds certainly can still produce unique experiences to some extent
Although perhaps the differences are not significant between varieties but more so among varying genetics including within the same variety


These are the types of inquiries I am excited to potentially see happen with future psychedelic science
Having said that, throughout reading this discussion again and thinking deeper, I have started to think maybe this is not the direction mushroom research should even go towards

Identifying compounds and how varying levels of them interact/produce certain experiences might push the field towards Big Pharma and ignore the investigation into the nature of the psilocybin experience and healing potential

Studying the psychological phenomena occurring during a mushroom experience, the spiritual relevance, and mechanism of healing is far more important for future research than chemistry

A trip is a trip

And all trips I believe have the potential to illicit any experience... psychosis, healing, spiritual journeys, etc.

One's own psyche and life experience is certainly far more important and relevant in discussing trip experiences and healing potential, so perhaps a discussion on the variation among experiences between varieties would only take away from trying to push forward psychedelic mushrooms in our society


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: shadyshroomie]
    #27154968 - 01/18/21 09:00 AM (3 years, 10 days ago)

I find it funny that you read anger in my response, I thought it was a rather measured response given how trite the subject matter is. Perhaps it contained notes of resignation to the absurdity of continuing the discussion. Science and spiritually are not the same. Spiritual insight is a very subjective thing and not something you can easily control as a variable in any scientific experiment (I’m not saying impossible but definitely it’s subjective).

You guys want to pontificate on the whether an abundance of norpsilocin is responsible for things like body load or how it’s more potent than psilocin at the 5-HT2A receptor cool, I’d call that a science minded discussion. But most of what people want to discuss in these threads is rarely so structured. However that doesn’t make me angry, just slightly bored.


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Invisibleshadyshroomie
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27154992 - 01/18/21 09:10 AM (3 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:

You guys want to pontificate on the whether an abundance of norpsilocin is responsible for things like body load or how it’s more potent than psilocin at the 5-HT2A receptor cool, I’d call that a science minded discussion. But most of what people want to discuss in these threads is rarely so structured




Totally fair
Also, hard discussion to have without a research laboratory that can quantify those things
So perhaps we come back to this discussion not presently having much relevance or insight to be had yet


Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
However that doesn’t make me angry, just slightly bored.




Also totally fair hahahahha


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: shadyshroomie]
    #27156100 - 01/18/21 06:40 PM (3 years, 10 days ago)

OK so this thread has moved to the dark side?  Well it took at least some gonads to speculate about such forbidden things, so props. :laugh2:

All I can say is after growing for hella years and teasing out more interesting versions of a lot of different varieties is there's a lot of potential in cubes, any cube actually, but you have to be willing to uncover it, or just settle for MS, where every trip is a composite of multiple strains.  I've had good luck producing totally outrageous isolates (or close :tongue: ) with not much more guidance than "hmm that one was getting pretty interesting".  It's all about genetics, IOW. Get that right and it's all right.

What poses a serious sort of problem to the sort of progress the OP might hope to see is that only spores can be legally distributed in most places, not live cultures, even though the live cultures themselves contain essentially no drugs (try them if you doubt this) or at least less interesting ones.

Yet every time a grow goes back to spores, even if from a fairly well defined variety, it's reset time.  All strains contain good and bad genes when you have any criteria to select them by.  All varieties can and do throw sports, and when you add in that mushrooms just happen to use reproduction to redistribute their genetic potential across the current available colonizable landscape, it's like you ASKED them to get more random, by using spores.

If live cultures were legal for exchange and propagation, above board anyway, varieties would be more clearly defined and easier to duplicate - much more like cannabis genetics.  Just sayin'.


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27156108 - 01/18/21 06:45 PM (3 years, 10 days ago)

Live cultures can contain psilocin ?


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: smalltalk_canceled]
    #27156405 - 01/18/21 10:13 PM (3 years, 10 days ago)

Not really (it depends on whose study you're looking at) - but they're still illegal.  :shrug:


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: shadyshroomie] * 1
    #27156532 - 01/19/21 12:15 AM (3 years, 9 days ago)

I'm so high right now, I legit thought this entire thread was a discussion on the epistemological validity regarding the base premises of Euclidean geometry.

:fbsnugs: + :roorbong: = :mindblown:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27157467 - 01/19/21 01:02 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

:okthatsfunny:


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: The OCB] * 1
    #27157560 - 01/19/21 01:54 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

The OCB said:
I was in Amsterdam in 2006 and my buddies and I bought 3 different strains wet. I went for something mild (cannot remember) my other boy got teachers and other dude Hawaiians.




In the Netherlands, they commonly sold Panaeolus Cyanescens as "Hawaiians". Pan Cyans are a lot more potent, and also more visual, then any Cubensis. They even blow APEs (the most potent cube) out of the water.
(3 - 5 times more potent than cubes, especially fresh due to very high psilocin content)

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OfflineExstortion
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27171585 - 01/26/21 07:09 PM (3 years, 2 days ago)

I’ve been taking 2-3 gs of different varieties of shrooms for the last year. Each variety trip was different and actually not too good. I finally got some lsd and took some over the weekend. I had a great head space and good visuals but couldn’t sleep when it’s those weird hours of the nights.. idk mushrooms are very different but similar to lsd.. I wanna try taking a tab earlier in the day around noon. I’ll make a trip report.


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Invisibleshadyshroomie
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: Exstortion]
    #27179064 - 01/31/21 09:06 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Haven't responded to this thread in a minute...

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Spiritual insight is a very subjective thing and not something you can easily control as a variable in any scientific experiment (I’m not saying impossible but definitely it’s subjective).






Looking back at you saying this made me think of this research institute: Science of "Spirituality"

I totally agree spirituality is highly subjective and extremely hard to research. Researching spiritual practices and the effects they have on your physiology (such as meditation, shit even a mushroom experience) is far easier than to scientifically explore the TRUTHS about our spiritual reality

In fact, I think that would be impossible to prove anything about the spiritual nature of reality as it is beyond our limited comprehension... however I believe spiritual truths can still be researched to some extent

The purpose of the research I believe should not be to prove anything about spirituality, but rather to investigate the mechanisms involved with eliciting a spiritual experience, how those mechanisms function in regards to our physiology, the benefits and outcomes of those occurring, etc.

Some of you in this thread may find the research institute linked above very interesting. I think the research going on there has the potential to change humanity in a significant way. I am curious of how much psychedelic research they are doing if any.


Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
OK so this thread has moved to the dark side?  Well it took at least some gonads to speculate about such forbidden things, so props. :laugh2:




Haha! The dark side, I like that. And thank you, I knew it would cause some ruckus but have really enjoyed hearing everybody's takes on it.

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
What poses a serious sort of problem to the sort of progress the OP might hope to see is that only spores can be legally distributed in most places, not live cultures, even though the live cultures themselves contain essentially no drugs (try them if you doubt this) or at least less interesting ones.

If live cultures were legal for exchange and propagation, above board anyway, varieties would be more clearly defined and easier to duplicate - much more like cannabis genetics.  Just sayin'.




Very good point. Kinda why I am stoked for more widespread legalization and when humanity reaches a point we are ready to accept them into our culture (Graham Hancock talks a lot about ancient cultures and psychedelics) so that we can begin to research them in ways we have not before. If in my lifetime it is feasible to become a mushroom cultivator just as it is a cannabis cultivator, I would do that in a heartbeat



Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
I'm so high right now, I legit thought this entire thread was a discussion on the epistemological validity regarding the base premises of Euclidean geometry.

:fbsnugs: + :roorbong: = :mindblown:




(Insert crying laughing emoji) My emojis do not work but this made me chuckle quite a lot. A cube is a 3D rectangle but a 3D rectangle is not necessarily a cube hmmmmmmm


Quote:

Exstortion said:
I’ve been taking 2-3 gs of different varieties of shrooms for the last year. Each variety trip was different and actually not too good. I finally got some lsd and took some over the weekend. I had a great head space and good visuals but couldn’t sleep when it’s those weird hours of the nights.. idk mushrooms are very different but similar to lsd.. I wanna try taking a tab earlier in the day around noon. I’ll make a trip report.





Have you taken the same variety twice? I would be inclined to believe each different trip was simply a different trip because of your headspace, set, setting, previous experiences, etc. I am curious if you took the same variety each more than once, and several varieties, and could tell each one was distinct?

First time I ever took acid I took around 185 mics at 5:30am... went on a hike in the Smokey Mountain/Appalachian area... changed my life. There was a moment we were sprinting down the mountain to avoid a "blizzard" (looking back it was sprinkling snow we would have been fine haha) and the person in front of me turned around and yelled stop. Going from feeling like a werewolf or vampire in twilight running through the trees, just all blurr around me, to instantly stopping and everything being still made the perception of time freeze entirely for me. Was one of the more incredible experiences of my life.

However, I have come to not really enjoy LSD as much. It is a bit too electric for me, and too easy for me to take too much. A square 1/8th inch more could be the difference between having a great time and a psychotic episode. The third time I took acid I did 440 mics, taught me real fucking quick to not fuck with psychedelics.

I like shrooms better 1) because the feel more organic to me. I like to compare the two as LSD is to shrooms what an electric guitar is to an acoustic guitar. and 2) it is much easier to control your dose since tabs can be a variety of doses. 1.5 tabs could be a minor trip or could take you to fucken fractal paradise... it is so variable. I know mushrooms are variable as well, but 3.5 gs of shrooms whether weak or potent will be within a closer range I feel like than 1.5 tabs (one being 110mic per tab or 220mic per tab)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: shadyshroomie]
    #27179109 - 01/31/21 09:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I disagree that shrooms can be far more predictable in terms of potency, assuming the LSD you’re taking is actually LSD and that it’s laid in range of 30-100 ug per square. Just cubes alone can range from completely bunk (like you eat an oz and get zero) to tampanensis strength or even more potent (in which case 3.5 would be overwhelming from some people). This isn’t even taking into account more potent species or poor storage methods.

Most of the “5 grams in silent darkness” people would likely wake up in a pool of shit piss and puke if they ate 5 grams of what I consider strong fruits.

As for the more organic assertion, is that an objective evaluation? It’s pretty obvious L is man made and pretty much all mushrooms are “organic” could that be influencing the evaluation of the experience? Not my call but I feel the need to point it out.


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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27179122 - 01/31/21 09:54 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

"over a million LSD blotters seized since 2011 from roughly 1400 different sources. In 2011, every single sample tested positive for only LSD. But in 2014, less than 0.1% of blotters had LSD — instead, they found novel hallucinogens (NBOMe and DOx), fentanyl analogues, extasy, cathinones, and other modern designer drugs. All of these chemicals can cause a lethal overdose, unlike LSD. As of 2017, about 18% of tabs sold as LSD actually contained LSD. A hallucinogen called 25I was one of the most common adulterants in recent years."

https://www.projectcbd.org/news/quick-hits/fake-lsd-real-danger

I'd say that most kids that haven't experienced the real lsd of the 90s don't even know what real/good lsd even is.

I was recently camping in Algonquin with someone who claimed to have a gram of liquid lsd 25 in a vial!....after watching them dose and hearing how much they payed for it I quickly realized these kids weren't taking lsd at all or they'd be blubbering piles of psychedelic flesh.
They didn't even realize how much 1 ml of lsd 25 really would have been if it was real....kids these days lol.


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Invisibleshadyshroomie
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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27179156 - 01/31/21 10:16 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Pastywhyte said:
I disagree that shrooms can be far more predictable in terms of potency, assuming the LSD you’re taking is actually LSD and that it’s laid in range of 30-100 ug per square. Just cubes alone can range from completely bunk (like you eat an oz and get zero) to tampanensis strength or even more potent (in which case 3.5 would be overwhelming from some people). This isn’t even taking into account more potent species or poor storage methods.




Thanks for that I was unaware shrooms had that immense of variability in potency. Is it possible for some to have no psilocybin at all? (talking about cubensis) Say you were to harvest two different shoeboxes from the same MSS, could 1.5g of one box/harvest be equivalent to like 4g of another harvest?

Quote:


Pastywhyte said:
Most of the “5 grams in silent darkness” people would likely wake up in a pool of shit piss and puke if they ate 5 grams of what I consider strong fruits.Most of the “5 grams in silent darkness” people would likely wake up in a pool of shit piss and puke if they ate 5 grams of what I consider strong fruits.




That is what I have been thinking as well haha. I ate a 13g wet fruit I picked the other day and was pretty god damn high. Even an eighth dried would blast me the fuck off. I am nowhere close to being comfortable doing 5g... maybe in my old age

Quote:


Pastywhyte said:As for the more organic assertion, is that an objective evaluation? It’s pretty obvious L is man made and pretty much all mushrooms are “organic” could that be influencing the evaluation of the experience? Not my call but I feel the need to point it out




It is more a subjective evaluation. Mind you however I have not taken a large dose of shrooms as I have with LSD. And perhaps my knowing that LSD is chemically synthesized might be contributing to my experience. That is actually a really interesting idea. Funny too because part of my psychotic trip from 440mics was due to being raised believing LSD is some insane drug that will change your life forever... I was so out of my normal consciousness I had essentially forgotten I knew what LSD was and that I chose to do it, and thought my life was over and forever changed because I took such a "high level drug" and what not...

In fact knowing me, I would not be surprised at all if I feel a more organic experience from mushrooms because I love the fact that it is a natural, earth-grown product and can be enjoyed as is in its natural form. Makes me curious as well as to just how much of our personal experiences with psychedelics is affected by what we believe about the drugs themselves and opinions on them... 

I have had experiences with 98+% MDMA vs "molly" got from the street. I could tell the chemical structure and consistency was far different, and my experience was also very different. Felt much more high energy and electric with the not as pure stuff. Worse come down, girlfriend passed out like twice, etc. Probably fucken speed and a little mdma or something. I am not a chemistry expert but I wonder how much residual chemicals can be leftover when synthesizing LSD. Curious if there are certain alkaloids or chemicals that can have an effect on the experience or alter the LSD experience.

I do not think the difference is as stark as an acoustic vs. electric, but I find myself more bubbly and warm on shrooms. CEVs seem to also be more bubbly, jellyfish like, whereas on L they are more fractal, sharp, and distinct. I also get much more energy on L that makes me wanna sprint up a mountain and if I don't I get anxious, whereas on shrooms I am cool with simply walking up the mountain haha :smile: Again could just be me personally, set, setting, what I have eaten or slept like, so many variables.

I also will say I have taken L upwards of 30 times and tripped close to 15. Shrooms on the other hand I still have yet to take a large enough dose to really TRIP trip, but more so am just high as fuck and maybe 5 times have had slight visual distortions and vibrant colors. Part of my evaluation is due to my own experience, albeit extremely limited especially with shrooms, as well as conversations with my friends who share similar experiences



Quote:

p9hu7 said:
"over a million LSD blotters seized since 2011 from roughly 1400 different sources. In 2011, every single sample tested positive for only LSD. But in 2014, less than 0.1% of blotters had LSD — instead, they found novel hallucinogens (NBOMe and DOx), fentanyl analogues, extasy, cathinones, and other modern designer drugs. All of these chemicals can cause a lethal overdose, unlike LSD. As of 2017, about 18% of tabs sold as LSD actually contained LSD. A hallucinogen called 25I was one of the most common adulterants in recent years."

https://www.projectcbd.org/news/quick-hits/fake-lsd-real-danger

I'd say that most kids that haven't experienced the real lsd of the 90s don't even know what real/good lsd even is.




This is so fucking scary and sad. Almost all the times I took L I was sourcing from darkweb marketplace. Always paying a bit extra for those vendors with over 3,000 reviews and averaging 4.9 star or more (out of 5 lol).

I made the mistake of taking L from my friend who (so fucking typical) "SWORE this was DOUBLE DIPPED PURE LSD" and all that shit. I knew it was iffy but at the time I really didn't give a fuck I just wanted to get high. It was an insanely different experience. He tried to claim "every trip is different it was 100% acid". But no. Every trip has been different, but this was different in a significant way. Started feeling it like 20 min in and it ramped up extremely fast. Colors seemed brighter but in a un-athentic way. Like a lens filter was placed over my eyes rather than the natural color being more vibrant. It lasted about 4-5 hours and did not come in waves. Simply ramped up quick, was buzzing for 4-5 hours and not having the best time, and then ramped back down extremely fast. There was no afterglow giggles, euphoria, or any of the more rhythmic flow experience I have on LSD. Also did not get body high like I have every other time taking LSD.

Fuck shady drug dealers for potentially killing people. Irrelevent but even more so though fuck big pharma for legit killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of people every year...


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Re: A Cube is not a Cube... a memoir from a Noob (moved) [Re: shadyshroomie]
    #27179216 - 01/31/21 10:51 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I don’t have any conclusive data that it’s possible for cubes to contain zero actives but, I did have a clone once that was so weak you could literally eat an oz and feel nothing. So I’d say that while it may have been possible for there to be extremely small amounts of actives in the fruits, as a matter of function they might have well been completely inactive.


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