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Hikeadellic
Fungi Fan



Registered: 08/31/20
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U.S. House votes to decriminalize marijuana at federal level
#27071710 - 12/04/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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By Susan Cornwell
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives voted on Friday to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level, but the legislation is not expected to advance further as long as the Senate remains in Republican hands.
It was the first time either chamber of Congress has voted to end the federal ban on marijuana since the drug was listed as a "controlled substance" in 1970.
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Fifteen U.S. states and the District of Columbia have legalized recreational use of marijuana, and over 30 states allow some form of the drug for medicinal purposes. U.S. cannabis sales hit record levels over the Thanksgiving weekend.
But the federal ban on the drug persists, which creates conflicts with state laws and limits cannabis companies' access to banking services and funding.
The Democratic-majority House voted 228-164, largely along party lines, to lift the federal prohibition. But Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Republican, is an opponent of the change, meaning a decriminalization proposal is unlikely to see Senate action unless Democrats manage to win both Georgia Senate seats and with them Senate control in a Jan. 5 runoff election.
The bill the House passed would allow states to regulate marijuana, Representative Earl Blumenauer, a Democrat and co-chairman of the Congressional Cannabis Caucus, said in debate.
“This legislation does not legalize cannabis across the country. It stops the federal government from interfering with what states have decided to do," he said.
Republican Representative Debbie Lesko said she found it incredible that Democrats were talking about "legalizing marijuana" instead of focusing on passing more relief from the coronavirus pandemic. "Sometimes I think that the world is turned upside down," she said.
In fact, the House in May passed a mammoth coronavirus aid bill, but it did not advance in the Republican-run Senate. Negotiations are underway on a smaller compromise bill.
The cannabis bill would expunge federal marijuana convictions and impose a 5% tax on cannabis products. The revenue raised would help reinvest in communities most adversely impacted by enforcement of the law, Blumenauer said.
(Reporting by Susan Cornwell; Editing by Bill Berkrot) https://news.yahoo.com/u-house-votes-decriminalize-marijuana-183940087.html
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skOsH
Functionally dysfunctional



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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Hikeadellic] 2
#27071759 - 12/04/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ridiculous that Republicans want to hold onto the drug war. It is not worth the tax dollars to fight it, and legalization would put cartels out of business and make drug use safer.
Republicans want to keep a plant illegal, which can be refined into different strengths and forms.
Just like alcohol is made from fermentation and is made into different kinds of alcohol, such as beer, wine, and further distillation for spirits.
And yet alcohol does far more damage than LSD psilocybin and ccannabis combined.
In fact, alcohol is perhaps the most dangerous drug out there. Suddenly stopping use can kill someone. Not even heroin can do that.
There is evidence that small doses of thc help regrow neurons, we had that published earlier here, and LSD and psilocybin, along with psychedelic analogs, regrow neurons and strengthen neural networks.
Cannabis, psilocybin, LSD, other psychedelics, are harmless...and MDMA is a miracle medicine as well.
Some Democrats will oppose decriminalization as well. Congress doesn't seem interested in ending the drug war via legalization.
Edited by skOsH (12/04/20 12:28 PM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Hikeadellic]
#27071764 - 12/04/20 12:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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The same kind of personalities, who are attracted to policing others and to becoming revenuers, are going to use the same authoritarian tactics on whomever did not pay the 5% duty, to cover mattress tag warnings.
The charges would have the same overall consequences, and, now, you will need psychological counseling on soft drug use.
At least, some non-violent offender might be loosed from his caging on a technicality. Rather than calling that a favor -- not to touch a person, at all -- I would like to see the accusers put in the place of the accused, for their unethical behavior, including asset forfeiture and an embarassing mark on their record.
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Failboat
Fuck Up
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: durian_2008]
#27072025 - 12/04/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Give me an acre of coca, an acre of cannabis, an acre of vegetables, an acre of mushrooms, and an acre of trees please. Until I can grow whatever I want in my own greenhouses we have further to go.
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



Registered: 07/12/13
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Failboat]
#27072755 - 12/04/20 11:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm excited but also considering it has to pass the senate. I'm not sure private growers will be protected from huge tax hikes and already state taxes often make a 60$ 8th 100$ if you have cancer or not so there's a long way to go
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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Holybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
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Quote:
Republican Representative Debbie Lesko said she found it incredible that Democrats were talking about "legalizing marijuana" instead of focusing on passing more relief from the coronavirus pandemic. "Sometimes I think that the world is turned upside down," she said.
Republicans are so full of shit, I don't know why I still get so upset by it anymore other than the fact that their lies become more outrageous, and more brazen, every day.
The House already passed TWO bills that McConnel shot down, and the GOP were the ones who refused to negotiate on another relief bill until after Trump lost the election, and now they are trying to jam through a shitty one in this lame duck session, before they lose their iron grip on the senate, in order to undercut the new administration. I don't think taking part of ONE day to vote on the MOORE Act is what's stopping Congress from passing more relief.
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And $60 dollars an 8th? That better be some kind of weed. And most state taxes fall in the 10-15% range, not the 66% in your post...only a couple states' exceed 15%, with Washington being the only one in excess of 20% afaik.
While I know taxes, and more often the regulations which must be followed to bring flower to market, might seem onerous right now...I wouldn't be too worried about federal taxes at this point, hell the 5% tax would be more than offset by opening up traditional banking/financing tools to the cannabis industry.
Even at the state level, I think a lot of the regs are more of a burden and affect prices more than the taxes. But, there's no reason that, in the future, legal cannabis couldn't be much cheaper than even current black market prices...if we produced most cannabis outdoors. Paying for the building, ventilation, lights, hydro systems, and especially electricity run up the prices more than anything.
Outdoor cannabis, on a large scale(hopefully done with a high number of producers, not an oligarchy) has the potential to bring the $/g down to almost nothing...especially if current trends continue with most of that being used for extracts and edibles and don't need to pay labor to trim by hand, and high quality flower becomes more of a niche market produced separately, or home grow laws opened up.
Edited by Holybullshit (12/05/20 09:30 AM)
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Holybullshit]
#27073473 - 12/05/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: ....I'm not sure private growers will be protected from huge tax hikes and already state taxes often make a 60$ 8th 100$ if you have cancer or not so there's a long way to go
What do you mean about private growers being protected from tax hikes?
I guess I should ask what you mean by "private grower"?
I consider myself to be a private grower, I grow solely for my own smoke & medicine, and taxes have no impact on what I grow at home. (unless I purchase seeds or clones from a store, a $60 pack of seeds cost me more than $80 after taxes)
Quote:
Holybullshit said:
And $60 dollars an 8th? That better be some kind of weed. And most state taxes fall in the 10-15% range, not the 66% in your post...only a couple states' exceed 15%, with Washington being the only one in excess of 20% afaik.....
Even at the state level, I think a lot of the regs are more of a burden and affect prices more than the taxes.
Here in Cali, the amount of taxes that I pay "out the door" compared to the advertised or labeled price is around 33%. I'm pretty certain that in a handful of legal states one will be paying around 30% to nearly 40% tax "out the door". And a lot of 8ths in stores are priced around $30 to $70+ before tax, so one is paying around $40 to $90+ dollars for a mere 8th of weed...A little jar with a few tiny buds in it for more than $60 .
With that said...there are certain weed stores where I've found 8ths for $12 to $16 (before tax), so I'm walking out the door with an 8th for around $20 or less. Which is closer to what I feel it should be. I consider $20 for an 8th to be a somewhat fair deal as long as the weed is good, but most of the stuff from stores is mediocre in quality at best. Tho I have got some decent quality stuff from stores before, it's really hit or miss most of the time. I've felt like I've basically been robbed a few times.
But yea....the regulations set in place are def a part of the problem. The cost of all the fees and license one has to go through just to apply to try to start a cannabis business is outrageous, then the county wants some $ and has their own regulations and hoops one has to jump through, then the city wants some $ and has their own regulations and hoops to jump through.....The cost of the herb is already inflated a lot by that, then from there on there's many layers of taxes slapped onto the herb until it reaches the consumer.
I dream of one being able to sell their herb at a farmers market and one being able to purchase herb from the grower at a market....Purchasing directly from the hand of the grower and prices would be super cheap and I feel quality would be much better. I sometimes find decent weed in stores but most of it is honestly doo doo and/or lacking "soul".
After growing more than a year supply of herb, a few pounds, for only about $250 this year...I don't plan on buying anything from the store for a long while lol.
-OM
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,471
Last seen: 3 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: openmind]
#27073605 - 12/05/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Private growers are much like what you do "privately grow" except they sell to clinics and it can be a real job for people. I'm afraid the operating costs will drive down what clinics will pay for product. I suppose I could be overreacting a bit but for example in L.A. or S.F. There will be often 30 dollars extra in taxes which prices real patients out so in short I probably just don't like California's taxing system
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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Holybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: openmind]
#27074687 - 12/06/20 06:59 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Including state sales taxes, without explicitizing so, is a little misleading when having a discussion on the taxing of the cannabis industry. You also said $60 before all taxes, not $60 an 8th retail price. One includes the excise tax(which is the bulk of the taxes on cannabis products), one does not.
Regardless, your original post was 66%, not 33%, which you will only see anything close to that number under the most extreme of circumstances. Let alone "nearly 40%".

I can't imagine even the best indoor flower commonly going for more than $3,000/lb wholesale in Cali..that's less than $25/8th wholesale...following the graphic above, if the consumer cost was 225% of the wholesale cost, it would be....around(a little less) $60 an 8th AFTER taxes.
I don't doubt that somewhere you can find some 8ths priced at $60 before taxes(though its probably after the excise tax in most cases)...but that doesn't mean its worth it(which was my original point), and using that figure to try to make it appear as if an 8th of legal cannabis commonly costs the consumer $100 is more than a little misleading.
...especially since $60 increased by 33% is $80, not $100. And in many(if not most) jurisdictions it wouldn't reach 30%.
And as I've already stated, as far as consumers go...bringing down the cost of production by expanding outdoor production and repealing onerous regulation is the best way to make cannabis products affordable, not lowering taxes, which are necessary in making legal cannabis feasible.
If you are worried about producers...well, either they need a better business model, or if you are concerned about smaller growers being pushed out then the legal cannabis framework needs to be changed to encourage a larger number of producers by limiting production amounts. Crying about a 5% federal sales tax is barking up the wrong tree, the federal de-scheduling of cannabis is good for the entire industry and a 5% sales tax is a small price to pay.
Edited by Holybullshit (12/06/20 08:18 AM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Failboat]
#27075039 - 12/06/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: Give me an acre of coca, an acre of cannabis, an acre of vegetables, an acre of mushrooms, and an acre of trees please. Until I can grow whatever I want in my own greenhouses we have further to go.
The grower of conventional produce, and the country's ability to feed itself, is considered a national security concern. Yes, literally. It is tightly micromanaged.
To have clean water is a contentious area of discussion.
My definition of natural rights is primal, elemental, in comparison with so much legalese.
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Holybullshit]
#27075151 - 12/06/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know a guy who sells $80 1/8s on the street cause he puts some decent herb in fancy pouches with pictures n names. I do not care for this type if business, but his customers gobble it up I guess. 
Just some perspective for people complaining about $80 1/8s from a convenience store.
Good point durian, clean water is vital to human prosperity yet people profit from pollution and unfair usage of water sources.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Failboat]
#27075222 - 12/06/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: Good point durian, clean water is vital to human prosperity yet people profit from pollution and unfair usage of water sources.
It's not considered a right, to have that old school wishing well, bucket, and red barn.
In my region, the farmers are not allowed to just bring it to market. They are told by the govt everything they have to do and when.
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Quirkmeister92 said: decent herb in fancy pouches with pictures n names.
Here is what they're buying, in case anyone is interested in the biz. Learn about stationary.
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Holybullshit]
#27075478 - 12/06/20 03:08 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: Private growers are much like what you do "privately grow" except they sell to clinics and it can be a real job for people. I'm afraid the operating costs will drive down what clinics will pay for product. I suppose I could be overreacting a bit but for example in L.A. or S.F. There will be often 30 dollars extra in taxes which prices real patients out so in short I probably just don't like California's taxing system
How do "private growers" fit into the framework of the legal market though? Is there even a type of license one can get to be a small time "private" grower? And if one doesn't have a license to grow, technically by law one isn't allowed to grow more than 6 plants (unless they have a medical card then I believe it's 12 plants, and some people with medical cards are allowed to grow more than 12).
Weed stores are not allowed to buy directly from growers/producers, I'm pretty sure stores must purchase their products from a distributor. The way the legal market is set up there is a middle point between the grower/producer and the storefront that sells. A grower can't show up at a weed store and try to sell weed to the store, that can not happen legitimately/legally within the legal market.
I know stuff like that used to happen in the "medical" market years ago before things went fully legal in Cali...but the legal market is ran much differently than that.
And if it does happen these days then it is unlikely that the store and the grower are licensed and legal.
Quote:
Holybullshit said:
Regardless, your original post was 66%, not 33%, which you will only see anything close to that number under the most extreme of circumstances. Let alone "nearly 40%".
I can't imagine even the best indoor flower commonly going for more than $3,000/lb wholesale in Cali..that's less than $25/8th wholesale...following the graphic above, if the consumer cost was 225% of the wholesale cost, it would be....around(a little less) $60 an 8th AFTER taxes.
I never made claims about 66% taxes...
I said, "....a lot of 8ths in stores are priced around $30 to $70+ before tax, so one is paying around $40 to $90+ dollars for a mere 8th of weed"
And by "before tax" I simply mean the price that the product is advertised as in the store, the price tag that is on it, and by "tax" I simply mean how much more I have to pay "out the door" compared to the price tag.
In my town, I'm paying around 33% more "out the door" than the price tag on the product.
A $60 8th will cost a lil over $80 "out the door" in my town......And prices at $60 for an 8th before tax are common. They can be found for cheaper, I try to not pay anymore than $25 out the door, but just about every store I've been to has a selection of "top shelf" 8ths priced at $60 or more before tax.
I forget what county/city it was...but I recall seeing some #'s for a few cities in certain counties where the layers of taxes were getting close to 40% on top of the price tag price. Since counties and cities can impose their own taxes on top of everything else.
-OM
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: openmind] 1
#27075864 - 12/06/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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There should be no licensing required. That's literally the move that started the whole prohibition, the hemp tax stamp. It needs to be legal to grow and possess as well as sell without licensing just like other food, herbs, and supplements.
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Holybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,551
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Failboat]
#27076670 - 12/07/20 07:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: I know a guy who sells $80 1/8s on the street cause he puts some decent herb in fancy pouches with pictures n names. I do not care for this type if business, but his customers gobble it up I guess. 
Just some perspective for people complaining about $80 1/8s from a convenience store.
Good point durian, clean water is vital to human prosperity yet people profit from pollution and unfair usage of water sources.
The power of branding...it has consumed and ruined capitalism in nearly every industry. Businesses no longer compete to have the best product or provide the best service, and definitely not to offer the lowest price, they compete to have the best brand. Everyone selling the same overpriced shit, and the only competition that occurs is between their advertising and marketing departments.
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Quote:
openmind said: I never made claims about 66% taxes...
You started this whole god damn thing by claiming $60 eigths cost $100 after taxes...that's a 66% increase.(of course I already explained the math to you, so its not an honest mistake, now you are just flat out lying).
I don't really have anything left to add, and obviously neither do you, we are just going around in circles now...this whole time you've been trying to massage the truth by exaggerating and cherry picking, by trying to pass extremes off as the norm. What you've been doing is akin to complaining about the price of champagne by pointing to a bottle of Dom Pérignon.
And now you aren't even trying to stay on topic, whether you are worried about consumer prices or smaller producers I've addressed both and a 5% federal sales tax is not the enemy here.
Edited by Holybullshit (12/07/20 07:50 AM)
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: Holybullshit]
#27076881 - 12/07/20 10:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Holybullshit said:
Quote:
openmind said: I never made claims about 66% taxes...
You started this whole god damn thing by claiming $60 eigths cost $100 after taxes...that's a 66% increase.(of course I already explained the math to you, so its not an honest mistake, now you are just flat out lying).
I don't really have anything left to add, and obviously neither do you, we are just going around in circles now...this whole time you've been trying to massage the truth by exaggerating and cherry picking, by trying to pass extremes off as the norm. What you've been doing is akin to complaining about the price of champagne by pointing to a bottle of Dom Pérignon. .
Nah, I didn't actually. I did say a $60 8th will cost a little over $80 after taxes in my city (@ about 33% tax), never said it would cost $100.
If I made claims about taxes being 66% and 8ths going for over $100, then quote me or show me where I said that.
I don't see anywhere in this thread where I said such things. I said taxes are between 30% to 40% in a lot of places and one will typically be paying around $40 to $70+ or more for an 8th, and that in my city the taxes are 33% out the door over the price tag price. Never once said anything about 66% tax or 8ths going for $100+ .
And I'm not cherry picking or trying to trying to "massage the truth" lol....Sure one can find 8ths for cheap, but the cheap stuff is usually garbage. Decent quality weed tends to be super expensive in stores (compared to "street" prices). How often do you go into weed stores to purchase cannabis products? I can link you to menus to prove to you what the prices are like in many stores across the state of California and I can post pics of receipts to prove to you the taxes I pay in my city.
-OM
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Holybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,551
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: openmind]
#27077040 - 12/07/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said:
Nah, I didn't actually. I did say a $60 8th will cost a little over $80 after taxes in my city (@ about 33% tax), never said it would cost $100.
Quote:
openmind said:
...huge tax hikes and already state taxes often make a 60$ 8th 100$ ...
Your original complaint was that somehow federal de-scheduling was going to going to push small producers out of the market...my counter was the benefits of opening traditional financial tools to the cannabis industry far outweigh the cost of a 5% sales tax.
I don't even know WTF you are going on about now(and I don't think you do either) you are so busy trying to prove you didn't say what everyone can clearly read by scrolling up. And the excise tax is already included in the retail price, but you keep conveniently avoiding that fact....not that this has ANYTHING to do with federal de-scheduling.
I'm done here, this is no longer mentally stimulating, its just pathetic at this point.
Edited by Holybullshit (12/07/20 12:13 PM)
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Quote:
Holybullshit said:
Quote:
openmind said:
...huge tax hikes and already state taxes often make a 60$ 8th 100$ ...
Your original complaint was that somehow federal de-scheduling was going to going to push small producers out of the market...my counter was the benefits of opening traditional financial tools to the cannabis industry far outweigh the cost of a 5% sales tax.
I don't even know WTF you are going on about now(and I don't think you do either) you are so busy trying to prove you didn't say what everyone can clearly read by scrolling up. And the excise tax is already included in the retail price, but you keep conveniently avoiding that fact....not that this has ANYTHING to do with federal de-scheduling.
I'm done here, this is no longer mentally stimulating, its just pathetic at this point.
It's pathetic that you can't manage to read clearly...You seem to be the only one that is reading those words as if I'm the one that posted it. By scrolling up you can clearly see that I was not the one who posted that. I was not the one who posted those words or made that "original complaint".
That quote above are not the words of mine, it was "seriously trippin" that said that, and I responded to that post by asking him what he meant by "private grower".
Here are the words you keep stuffing into my mouth, and where they came from>>>>
Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: I'm excited but also considering it has to pass the senate. I'm not sure private growers will be protected from huge tax hikes and already state taxes often make a 60$ 8th 100$ if you have cancer or not so there's a long way to go
It wasn't me......
-OM
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: United States Decriminalizes Marijuana [Re: openmind]
#27079039 - 12/08/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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You pay for a license to grow X amount of plants. In the tradition of the original Stamp Act, there will not be enough permissions granted, for everyone to do as they please.
Or, you get X amount of people to say that you're a caretaker. Then, take over their trivial, legal allotment.
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