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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: chibiabos]
    #27090403 - 12/15/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

chibiabos said:
K.  I think he's just talking about a personal computer though, in which case Ubuntu is a fine place to start. :shrug:

Or OpenSUSE or whatever floats his boat.




It really boils down to his goals.  If the goal is to become proficient with linux, then learning the core systems is pretty important and a power user style distro, or one that doesn't hand hold you non-stop is best.  If you don't want to have to learn that shit though, then any easymode flavor like ubuntu will do fine. 

The reason windows is so popular is because its easy.  You just click next a bunch of times and it does its thing.  Minimal to no understanding of the core basics of computing is needed to use it.  Just like how hardware has become, most of the things that required knowledge in the past to make work are now automated into easymode and transparent to the user.

So, it boils down to goals.  Just want an alternative to windows for daily desktop use?  Ubuntu will work fine.  Want to know how linux actually works or plan to try to move into an IT career?  Better learn those core systems.  No one uses GUIs for *nix administration in the workplace, and if you don't know how to do basic things like partition a drive from command line you will get laughed off the job.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Offlinechibiabos
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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: mndfreeze]
    #27090794 - 12/15/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mndfreeze said:
Quote:

chibiabos said:
Quote:

mndfreeze said:
Gentoo is a power user distro.  It doesn't have pretty GUI installers or auto do shit for you.  IMO, one the best ways to ACTUALLY learn linux is to do it form the core tools.  Learning the hard way how to fdisk and create partitions for example is a big deal with linux administration, but something ubuntu will do for you with a menu and you will never learn how it really works. 

Generally with *nix (both unix and linux) the closer to core command line stuff you learn how to use, the better.  The 'easier' you make it on yourself at the start the exponentially longer time you will spend mastering it and understanding how to fix problems.



Gentoo seems kind of BSDish compared to Linux on that account, to be honest.




Part of what I like about it.  I like its knock off version of the ports tree.

I also like how its still a from source distro.  Never been a fan of RPM or other precompiled packages because they always lead to some dumb ass dependency nightmare.

With Gentoo you configure your world variables to say what packages you definitely do NOT want (I'm looking at you X11!) and if you install something that may share libraries with it, it only grabs the libraries itself.  Unlike say redhat, where you want to install ncftp command line, but it shares some dumb ass single library file also found in X11, so RPM decides to satisfy that dependency it needs to install x11 and all the other related garbage too it.

I also like being able to fine tune it to specific arch, cut out any and all excess bullshit and run a single command to recompile my entire OS in one go if I want.  It makes for great server performance and helps with security having minimal excess unknowns on your system.  It's not good for enterprise level stuff of course though.  I'd never run it in anything but a small farm of servers.  Maintaining it would be too cumbersome on a large scale.



I'm pretty sure that Gentoo still uses some RPMs.  And to be totally honest there are some drawbacks to having to compile everything, with the advantage in performance not necessarily being worth it.  I mostly use it out of habit to be honest, and I definitely use binaries for things like Firefox, since that takes fucking forever to compile on my laptop...

To be totally honest I'm kind of surprised that my notebook can even put up with the demands that I put on it, especially with the motherboard being something like 10 years old.


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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: chibiabos]
    #27092615 - 12/16/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Unless something has changed, gentoo does not use rpm natively unless you specify you want to use it that way.  That's sort of the entire point of a from source distro.  I haven't run linux at home for a few years so maybe its changed. 

And yeah, there are benefits to packages of course.  Gentoo is designed to be a power user distro.  You trade time for customization and tuning.  RPM has a lot of flaws, mostly excessive bloat and dependency problems, but if you're ok with dealing with that then it can work great.  All the enterprise linux systems I work with use RPM.  Annoying af though when they do an upgrade on some random software and break it because it was compiled with newer libraries than exist on the system, so now we have to reinstall other shit again.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Offlinechibiabos
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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: mndfreeze]
    #27093237 - 12/16/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I mean more like they can't do source packages for some software.


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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: chibiabos]
    #27094394 - 12/17/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Why... learn how your router works and windows works, between the two you can stop windows sending all packets with any potential info you don't want out there.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: Ice9]
    #27096734 - 12/18/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

is there a how to detailed video you can reccomend? Because im familar with everything said so far, the iso, the rufus, the selecting in bios which order to boot, using a usb bigger than 32gb formatted,  i get all that. For me it just wont go, i tried ubuntu and MX which i really wanted to start with but could not get it to boot or go.


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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: Anahata]
    #27097168 - 12/19/20 07:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

What is the make and model of the computer you are trying to install on? I have seen computers that required an additional bios setting in order to work with a bootable disk. On some ASUS laptops I think it was called CSM mode.


Edited by mycomyst (12/23/20 06:06 AM)


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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: mycomyst]
    #27102322 - 12/22/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Distros are irrelevant, there is very little that cannot be acomplished with any distro.

I am currently using Ubuntu at work and Manjaro at home.
I would recommend Manjaro unless you need stability crazy stability and are NEVER going to upgrade your os (which is a bad idea). I have this issue with Ubuntu that the computer goes crazy every time I upgrade versions. That has happened to me on different personal computers, as well as my work one. Last Ubuntu upgrade and Gnome went all wanky. Gnome would restart after 5 minutes running. Now you can come all condescending with you are fidgeting with the computer so it broke. Maybe, but I do not fidget with my work computer.

Manjaro also gives some troubles, mainly the linux kernel and nvidia drivers sometimes take some time to play along, but it is stupidly easy to downgrade the kernel and find one that works. But overall I think Manjaro is easier to use. Ubuntu is extremely hard once you move outside basic stuff, Manjaro is no harder in any way than Ubuntu.

Oh, and y'all should be saying GNOO SLASH LOONIX xP


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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: Pu-Erh]
    #27108742 - 12/26/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pu-Erh said:
Distros are irrelevant, there is very little that cannot be acomplished with any distro.

I am currently using Ubuntu at work and Manjaro at home.
I would recommend Manjaro unless you need stability crazy stability and are NEVER going to upgrade your os (which is a bad idea). I have this issue with Ubuntu that the computer goes crazy every time I upgrade versions. That has happened to me on different personal computers, as well as my work one. Last Ubuntu upgrade and Gnome went all wanky. Gnome would restart after 5 minutes running. Now you can come all condescending with you are fidgeting with the computer so it broke. Maybe, but I do not fidget with my work computer.



It's true that the distro largely does not matter, unless you want to use the defaults, which you probably should if you're starting out. Though some distributions are better at keeping things in a non-broken state than others.

I personally use Debian stable for both work and home with some programs from Flatpak like the browser. I don't have time (and nerves) to deal with things unexpectedly changing under my ass after an upgrade. It's infuriating when you need to get something done but you're interrupted by either a botched upgrade or the developers deciding they wanted to change the workflow and you weren't keeping up with the developments. Changing the workflow of a program is fine, just not in the middle of a project. Ubuntu LTS or Kubuntu LTS would also work, and I'd probably recommend the latter for people starting out because KDE is more familiar for the average Windows user.

I used to customize my distribution heavily but over the years I just started to prefer the default settings with minor tweaks :shrug:.

"Old software" isn't as bad as it sounds, it's just a snapshot of the program from max 1-4 years back. You still get security updates, so it's not like you're going to be pwnd out of the nowhere. If you need the newer version with specific features you can just get it over Flatpak/Snap without having to upgrade your entire distribution or bother with how pinning packages and backports work. There is generally only one package and reason why you want to learn how backports work in Debian stable, and that's the linux kernel to support newer devices.

I'm probably never going to go back to the rolling release model again. Point releases are the way to go :biggrin: .


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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: koraks]
    #27123307 - 01/03/21 07:10 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
I also quite disliked the neverending and massive amount of updates that ubuntu liked to do which is excessive compared to even Microsoft standards.




yeah but with windows 10 forced updates, how could you say windows is better, ive seen my mom get booted off her computer for an update when she didnt have time for that shit, on the other hand I forget that I even have to update my computer, like once or twice a month it will cross my mind so I run sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade and it takes 5 minutes while I can still do whatever im doing


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: Ice9]
    #27123330 - 01/03/21 07:30 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Why... learn how your router works and windows works, between the two you can stop windows sending all packets with any potential info you don't want out there.




Or you can use an OS that dosnt phone home, I stopped dual booting in 2015, and installed GNU/Linux full time, when my GF left her macbook air at my house and I caught it phoning home

I was watching tv with the macbook sitting on my livingroom table, my router is under the tv and it was flashing like crazy, so I thought that was odd, I picked up the macbook and googled how to see what ip's you are connecting to in bash, copy pasted the command into the terminal, and a IP popped up, put the IP into an IP finder and it was in California, and the ISP said owned by Apple, that kinda disturbed me and flipped something in my head, that my computer was doing stuff I didnt want it too do, I was Windows/Linux dual booting on all my computers, I wiped the Windows off all my computers that day

Im just glad macbooks have bash, or I never would have had this experience


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


Edited by gopher (01/03/21 07:31 AM)


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: gopher]
    #27123394 - 01/03/21 08:22 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

OP, If you are still looking for a distro, as its been a month, so I figure you found one or gave up by now, I suggest Mint if your not a total freedom thumper, its the easiest to use distro in my opinion, and the Cinnamon desktop environment dosnt drive me crazy, I dont know how long I could use GNOME for

If you are a true Stallman-esque freedom thumper, Trisquel is the most polished endorsed free distro, but hopefully you have a thinkpad, or you might run into issues real quick

Debian can be a free distro, but its not endorsed because they recommend using non-free packages, when I went through my freedom thumping phase I used a completely free Debian stack, and it worked well on my Dell desktop and Thinkpad laptop, but I guess I dont think with my brain, I must use something else, my porn website uses Adobe Flash and now I use Mint on my computers lol

some other distros I have used are:

OpenSuse ( I liked it, but I had to query everything, I already learned apt, and learning new stuff is hard for me)

LXLE (great for shittier hardware but still getting a full experience, LXLE was one of the first distros I used and I thought I was going to stick with it forever, if like my mom or someone wanted to try Linux I would put Mint or LXLE on their computer)

Elementary ( I liked it until I dont know what happened and it decided to use my porn folder for the lock screen pics, I noped out of that distro pretty quick, if you want to donate to the programmers that make the programs, Elementary makes it real easy with the option to donate when you install stuff)

Arch (I fell for this meme, I dont see why its supposed to be an advanced distro, thier wiki is very good, you can solve any problem with thier wiki)

Puppy (for very, very old computers, I just tried it out for fun, I dont really like the programs it comes with, but they run on ancient hardware, so it has its use, it runs entirely from RAM IIRC, so its lightning fast) 

for some reason I never tried Fedora, I should put it on my to-do list, but I havnt distro-hopped in years

also Ive been looking at purchasing a System76 computer, they come with Pop!-OS, but I belive its GNOME based, so ill be stuck at the dilemma of suffering through GNOME, but using a OS tailored to the computer, or putting something I think is sane on, but might come with hiccups


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: gopher]
    #27129527 - 01/05/21 11:55 PM (3 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

gopher said:
Quote:

koraks said:
I also quite disliked the neverending and massive amount of updates that ubuntu liked to do which is excessive compared to even Microsoft standards.




yeah but with windows 10 forced updates, how could you say windows is better, ive seen my mom get booted off her computer for an update when she didnt have time for that shit, on the other hand I forget that I even have to update my computer, like once or twice a month it will cross my mind so I run sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade and it takes 5 minutes while I can still do whatever im doing



Dunno about your mom, but I only get 'booted' by Windows update if I ignore the request to restart for about a week. Win10 has never done an update that messed up one or more drivers, forcing me to spend a couple of hours to get something as basic as a graphics or network card to work properly again, while this happened regularly on Linux.

Overall I just found I lose less time on system administration with Windows than I did with Linux. I'm kind of long past the stage where I considered that sort of stuff a hobby. It's a nuisance now, so I prefer the path of least resistance. For me, that means using a licensed Windows copy and dutifully shelling out the bucks for an MS Office license - operational costs that I can easily justify and that effectively pay for themselves many times over each year.


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Offlinenan0
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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: koraks]
    #27168528 - 01/25/21 06:41 AM (3 years, 3 days ago)

I second Manjaro, then you get the AUR repository, but an easy install..

Did you manage to install linux yet?


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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: nan0]
    #27169565 - 01/25/21 05:36 PM (3 years, 3 days ago)

For a beginner, I would definitively recommend using Ubuntu 20.4 LTS. The installer is nice and polished. With some reading it can be easily turn into a super private and secure system. There is a lot of help around, so you are not alone in this adventure.

Once you've become more comfortable with using Linux, then you could explore other distros. Also, by default Ubuntu has a lot of support for different drivers and it will be easier to match your existing hardware.


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: fungusul]
    #27170369 - 01/26/21 07:09 AM (3 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

fungusul said:

Once you've become more comfortable with using Linux, then you could explore other distros.







I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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Invisiblefungusul
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Re: Fear of windows tyranny, looking to start on linux [Re: gopher]
    #27170734 - 01/26/21 11:30 AM (3 years, 2 days ago)

You are right about using the proper name for GNU/Linux. I didn't mean to give more credit to Linus :wink:.

Regular users are more familiar with Linux term and that is why most of the people are referring to it as simple as Linux.


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