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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically?
    #27066989 - 12/01/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Can anyone tell me about the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD? I want to know why mushrooms are more of an emotional mind fuck compared to acid's almost sober-like clear-headedness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] * 1
    #27067559 - 12/02/20 04:53 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

blood absorption pharmacodynamics primarily.

LSD is absorbed more quickly in one go, which provides a single ramp of effects, while shrooms are absorbed from gut in blobs producing a series of intensity ramps that are more difficult to adjust to. This repeatedly puts one on the defensive emotionally and that can explain it.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27067598 - 12/02/20 06:06 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

cactus is the most clear headed psychedelic

lsd is almost no rival to it relatively clearheaded as it is

it is extremely clear headed

and you know it when you are on it like you know that you are a mess

and you enjoy it

or is exhilerated by it

there is symbiosis between the clear headedness and the visuals

mentally there is almost just mind enhancement

+ the visuals are primal
earthy

it is like if someone says to you you will die in 60 years you go yeah I know I understand how much time limited and how it really is in its brevity as in life is short and time is seen as a concept not an experienced reality

almost no paranoia

this is with middle dose 25 grams dried cactus

low dose is just like a mdma super ride


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Offlinemycot
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27069532 - 12/03/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
blood absorption pharmacodynamics primarily.

LSD is absorbed more quickly in one go, which provides a single ramp of effects, while shrooms are absorbed from gut in blobs producing a series of intensity ramps that are more difficult to adjust to. This repeatedly puts one on the defensive emotionally and that can explain it.




I don't accept this at all.
Some take their shrooms in powder form or as a tea.

Erm, neuroscientifically ? :rofl2:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: mycot]
    #27069815 - 12/03/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

sure, however, the shear size of the dose is 1000's of times larger than a tab and the microscopic payload on that tab, and it all must get to the blood via the tubular digestive system, which takes that stuff and moves it around in blobs - gastroscientifically, burp!

to get around that, inject a synthetic solution or set up a quick IV.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27069908 - 12/03/20 11:42 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

No thanks.

I'd rather slam down a couple of grams of mushroom powder with some water.
The stomach doesn't need to digest and break down tissue in this form. The full dose is immediately accessible.
The come up is fast at twenty minutes. and the comedown is fast and clean because the stomach isn't spending enormous amounts of time and energy digesting tissue.
As for the acid, it's taking an hour coming on.


Edited by mycot (12/03/20 12:24 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: mycot]
    #27070134 - 12/03/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

immediately accessible to which absorption surfaces???
let us presume that the absorption surfaces are at the villi in the intestine and that can not be immediate - it will be parastaltically arranged in packs, like a train of cars getting pushed along with food or drink.

I cannot imagine how that can compare with the (sub-lingual or buccal or esophagal) absorption of lsd - no way this powdered form gets into the blood as quickly or in a single flush the way lsd does, just by sheer quantity. if it is 30 to 400 times the size, then there is 40 to 200 times the work in absorption.
30 mg psilocybin as powder is 300 times the 100 microgram lsd dose mass wise.

eating whole shroom dried or fresh involves a lot of digestion as well.

In summary, the absorption of psylocybin is between 2 to 20 orders of magnitude more complex than the absorption of lsd, and I maintain that the slight differences along the way are related to that natural progressive dosing effect.


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27070702 - 12/03/20 08:23 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think digestion has anything to do with the way LSD and mushrooms works with your emotions. I literally feel mind fucked on mushrooms but LSD I feel so clear-headed I'd might as well be sober with hallucinations as long as I'm not doing a high dose. I know LSD connects to more receptors than psilocybin. Psilocybin is a tryptamine, lsd is not.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27070937 - 12/03/20 11:13 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I once had a mushroom extraction that took effect in 20 minutes. I think it's just the metabolism of psilocybin into psilocin that produces the effect.

One effect of psilocybin neueoscientificaly is on serotonergic systems. These effect sympathetic systems like the adrenals.

Some people are more corougeaous than others, and that can help to withstand the ramp of effects that come with mushrooms.

Personally I found that lsd was "sharp" in a retrospective wave, while mushrooms were more "curve like".

I believe the mindfucks associated with such substances come from ill prepared individuals not fully informed on the effects or safety of the substances they are taking. In addition I think that the setting and environment someone puts themselves in to is extremely important for a smooth experience.

If there are responsibilities the next day it can be dreadful. If there are people with you that will freak out, it could drag you down. If you don't have food, entertainment and toiletries, it can be a worrisome experience.

I don't recall a kind of soberness with Lucy. More so extravagant visuals and shadow puppetry.

Whether it's mushrooms or Lucy I think the emotional impacts are dependant on the mindset you have going in to the experience. Imo.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27071199 - 12/04/20 04:43 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
I don't think digestion has anything to do with the way LSD and mushrooms works with your emotions. I literally feel mind fucked on mushrooms but LSD I feel so clear-headed I'd might as well be sober with hallucinations as long as I'm not doing a high dose. I know LSD connects to more receptors than psilocybin. Psilocybin is a tryptamine, lsd is not.




First off, after the last poster I really must object to the word neuroscientific. While this may sound scientific, there is no such word. Perhaps the term you are seeking is "neurologically".
While we are on that, it would be interesting to have compare stuff like EEG readings, MRI, blood flow and other brain mapping technologies in addition to receptor studies and compare these things between LSD and psilocybin.

I find that mushrooms can come on within twenty minutes, where LSD usually takes an hour, so as you say digestion has little to do with it.
I personally prefer LSD because I find it sharper and cleaner.  I've had fun times with friends on shrooms at recreational doses, but for serious tripping at higher doses I prefer LSD.
LSD I find less emotional and psilocbin more emotional and more as you say, mindfucked.
I feel like shrooms connect one to the organic, to nature but in doing so it slows one down.
Whereas with LSD which is a semi-synthetic there is less of this direct nature conection. It's just the human nervous system operating at a superluminal level with full access to all its own contents. More like a superconducting mega-computer.

Some actually do consider LSD a tryptamine and if you check out its molecular structures, one can indeed make out the tryptamine structure in the LSD molecule with both nitrogens present.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: mycot]
    #27071210 - 12/04/20 05:14 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Neuroscience says* would suffice.

You've said nothing about the neuroscience, and did you disagree with what I said?

Or is it just the word neueoscientificaly that you had an issue with?

Citric acid helps to metabolize psilocybin into psilocin through dephosphorylation.

And superluminal superconducting mega computer?

That's some fine quantumflapdoodlery you've devised there :lol:


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Offlinemycot
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: sudly]
    #27071243 - 12/04/20 05:55 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Yes it's indeed only the word that's problematic. :lol:
I mentioned the word earlier in the thread in my first post. It's a really mind-jarring word because it makes no sense. :lol:

Sometimes one can only express things through the poetic. :lol:


Edited by mycot (12/04/20 06:24 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: mycot]
    #27071325 - 12/04/20 07:18 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It's not hard to discern it is of the nature of neuroscience.



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Offlinemycot
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: sudly]
    #27071873 - 12/04/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Neuroscience.
There is no such word.
Maybe I might use a hyphen.
Neuro is to do with nerves, neurons.
Unless you are willing to restrict your field of enquiry to just the study of neurons rather than that of brain function.


Edited by mycot (12/04/20 01:36 PM)


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OfflineGodseed313
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27071889 - 12/04/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Pure injected Psilocybin sounds interesting, I believe the onset is almost immediate and at around 2 mg at least the duration is only around 10-15 minutes, would be a very efficient way to have a quick mushroom experience without devoting the usual handful of hours to the experience


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OfflineGodseed313
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27071899 - 12/04/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I think you’re likely on the right track Redgreen, being there is far less of a difference in effects between the various routes of administration for LSD, yet you can inject pure psilocybin and the resultant effect is almost immediately at its peak and has a duration of 10-15 minutes vs it’s much longer duration after typical ingestion. How it all relates to emotional states I’m not sure


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Offlinemycot
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: Godseed313]
    #27071958 - 12/04/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Godseed313 said:
I think you’re likely on the right track Redgreen, being there is far less of a difference in effects between the various routes of administration for LSD, yet you can inject pure psilocybin and the resultant effect is almost immediately at its peak and has a duration of 10-15 minutes vs it’s much longer duration after typical ingestion. How it all relates to emotional states I’m not sure




Not many use injection as a way to administer LSD simply because it's so easily used in more convenient fashions.
I think injected LSD is weird.
My recollection of the one time I used it this way was that it came on faster (fifteen minutes I think), was over faster (a couple hours) and less intense.


Edited by mycot (12/04/20 02:05 PM)


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OfflineGodseed313
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: mycot]
    #27071971 - 12/04/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Hm, that’s really interesting, seems almost universal that most compounds are more intense when delivered IV. And that’s significantly shorter of a duration for LSD, I have no experience with either one outside of the regular ROA’s so this is all pretty fascinating discussion to me


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InvisibleMWShrooms
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: Godseed313]
    #27071977 - 12/04/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Check out Robin Carhart-Harris and Roland Griffiths. If anyone has done any research on this it would be one of them.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: What's the difference in brain activity between mushrooms and LSD neuroscientifically? [Re: MWShrooms]
    #27072062 - 12/04/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

There have been brain studies, EEG etc, for both these drugs but usually with only one drug studied. Collating these studies so as to compare them side by side would be no small task.


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