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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: Enkidu]
    #27067268 - 12/01/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I think it could be gene related as to who catches covid or not. My sister has a friend whom is a mother of 2 kids with the whole family living in one house including the father. EVERYONE in that house EXCEPT THE MOTHER tested positive for covid. Ironically, as a mother, she was exposed to ALL family members probably moreso than the father the whole time yet she never caught it.

There is something about this virus that is very suspicious. It seems like it is targeted for specific people but I can't figure it out.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27067281 - 12/01/20 09:32 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah that i can do morrow, but i will not take a vaccine.


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: morrowasted]
    #27067372 - 12/01/20 10:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

How can you be sure that the vaccine is going to work very well?
Pfizer for example has long history of lying about their products to make some money.

And as far as safety goes. It used to be standard to have at least 1 year phase 3 of clinical vaccine trial. Usually longer.

This is not the case with these new vaccines.


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #27067385 - 12/01/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I had covid back in December of 2019... the media in America here didn't even really pick up on it until March 2020



In South America the fires burn constantly . Whether it's the heart of the emerald jungle that is being devoured, or another soul by fever, it's the start of the Apocalypse.


Nothing to see here though, Move on and do something about it.









Most people don't recognize that pain and suffering are the catalysts for creation and there can be no end without a beginning.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: Enkidu] * 3
    #27067708 - 12/02/20 08:12 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
Yeah that i can do morrow, but i will not take a vaccine.



You taken any others in your life?


Not taking the vaccine is one of the stupidest decisions a person could possibly make. Ive been working with covid patients since last march and myself and every one of my coworkers is chomping at the bit waiting for the vaccine to come out. Why? Because we are see how bad this disease can be. We are tired of doing this. Too many people are dying in extremely depressing scenarios. If the general public had experienced what health care workers have experienced this year, everyone would be begging to get the vaccine asap


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: morrowasted]
    #27067798 - 12/02/20 09:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

You seeing patient's on ECMO wither away and die Morrow? Saw some of the most depressing stuff you can imagine on my last contract.

34F withering away on life support for 90 days before family let her go.

One reason this vaccine is faster is because it is related to other Viruses we know about. MERS and several other viruses have been extensively studied and so we were able to leverage that information to get a vaccine faster. I understand the skepticism but appropriate skepticism always ONLY STARTS with a question "why did this vaccine come about so quick?". You can't just make up a reason because you like it. You need to research and find some evidence for whatever conclusion you make instead of just making off-the-cuff non-sequitors.


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: metalfaith]
    #27067831 - 12/02/20 09:21 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I can understand that developing vaccines gets quicker and quicker as the science advances.

But cannot understand that clinical trials are run quicker, even more when talking about long term side-effects. Or effective vaccine in long run.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: LeningradCowboy] * 1
    #27067867 - 12/02/20 09:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah idk much about it myself

But i dont trust the government and i have never regretted listening to mt gut instinct and intuition

I have regretted ignoring it and listening to others though.

I dont take the flu shot either

Makes more sense to me to get it and get through it and build your defense and immunity than to let someone i dont trust has my best interest in mind inject me with something they tell me is good for me..

Educate me

The vaccine is meant to help prevent me from spreading it to others if i dont get sick? Or what exactly is its purpose?

If i get it and have the antibodies and beat it im still a risk of killing people who for whatever reason cant beat it ?

That the general idea?

I trust mother nature more than man myself but im not against listening to reason ans i am not against science.

Just dont trust these guys or their ways..


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #27067880 - 12/02/20 09:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm probably going to let someone else go into the details on the vaccine trials. I have gotten quite lazy in researching my health info these days.

Enkidu, as much as I know you want to say you 'trust' nature, you don't. You take Tylenol ever? Ever been to the hospital? You eat food from a store?

All those are not nature. Nature is a mythical word, much like 'natural' is when talking about food. It means both nothing and anything you want it to at the same time.

Just some basic research on infant mortality through the ages would show nature is a cruel, cruel mistress.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: metalfaith] * 2
    #27067887 - 12/02/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
You seeing patient's on ECMO wither away and die Morrow? Saw some of the most depressing stuff you can imagine on my last contract.

34F withering away on life support for 90 days before family let her go.

One reason this vaccine is faster is because it is related to other Viruses we know about. MERS and several other viruses have been extensively studied and so we were able to leverage that information to get a vaccine faster. I understand the skepticism but appropriate skepticism always ONLY STARTS with a question "why did this vaccine come about so quick?". You can't just make up a reason because you like it. You need to research and find some evidence for whatever conclusion you make instead of just making off-the-cuff non-sequitors.


I make a point of not thinking about death anytime i dont absolutely have to these days. I dont even watch TV shows where people die anymore because I am basically traumatized. Consider it a miracle if you go on ECMO with covid and manage to come off of it.

The reason we made the vaccine so quickly is that the internet exists for collaboration and science is really badass now. No steps were skipped in the making of this vaccine. We just CAN do it this quickly now. If you doubt that, go into medical research and prove us wrong


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #27067889 - 12/02/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
So considering everything going on i mean where does that leave us with decision making?

Where do you go from here then

Exercise caution and do your best to survive through this both physical and economic hardship?

Work and save your money and bunker down?




I'll echo what morrow said. Also just keep your own health up and stay away from loved ones who are more at risk.

My own experience with it has almost been the opposite of yours. I've had two uncles die, one aunt put in the ICU, one 30yo cousin spent a week in the hospital barely able to breathe, my mother ended up with a pleural effusion and systemic inflammation that shut down her kidneys and liver and had to have both stinted, the only other 2 family members I know who've had it didn't have severe cases but were knocked down for weeks, one still has no sense of taste/smell 6 months later and is having depression issues related to that.

I'm 99.9% sure I had it, but since I can't be certain I act as if I didn't. Mine was one night of nausea followed by 2 days of fever then it let up. I decided to drink because I was feeling better on the 3rd night and assumed it was just food poisoning, and the next morning woke up feeling so achy it was like I got hit by a bus and I couldn't walk up the stairs in my house without needing to stop and catch my breath. Spent the next week in bed and honestly can't remember any of it, I was so fatigued, achy and out of it, struggling to breathe with any activity. My theory is that my body was fighting it off at first but the drinking suppressed my immune system enough to let the virus take hold. I'm still at only 95% blood oxygen now 8 months later, and I was always 98-99% before so idk what happened there.

My own health isn't really my worry, infecting someone close to me and possibly putting them through the horror show that the virus can cause is. The media can say whatever they want but the numbers tell the story, especially when you factor in all-cause mortality. A few people here have worked with COVID patients and been in the hospitals, seeing the actual carnage in person and being the one helping people fight for their life or helping them through the recovery process after is a whole lot different than seeing a number on the news.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27067892 - 12/02/20 09:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


The vaccine is meant to help prevent me from spreading it to others if i dont get sick? Or what exactly is its purpose?




are you asking what the purpose of a vaccine is? it both stops you from getting sick and it stops other people from getting sick because of you.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: morrowasted]
    #27067902 - 12/02/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Well Morrow, problem is you are not blessed if you get on ECMO and get off. I had several patients who did, but if you get sick enough to need ECMO, that means your case of COVID was so bad that your lungs are essentially scar tissue.

I have had several people who family refused to give up... they get off ECMO in a month or two because we basically take over their functions (hence ECMO). Problem is by that time treatment has caused a multitude of other problems. As follows:

1. They are dependent on absurd doses of Fent, Precedex, Versed and maybe ketamine because they had ARDS or were paralyzed for ECMO. Good luck weaning a vent while also weaning sedation on someone dependent upon 100mcg/hr fent.

2. They almost certainly have several wounds on prominent body parts. Also are on a ventilator, so you got VAP, as well as skin infections. You basically go through a continual cycle of PNA -> ABX -> cured -> VAP again

3. Lungs are pure scar tissue so that 34 F we had off ECMO for a month? I believe best PEEP we got her on was 8, and that was with a RR of 34 (SET ON THE VENT!) because she was retaining absurd CO2.

In the first 6 months of COVID, we literally saw 3 total people ever come out of the entire COVID/ECMO icu. We were basically the morgue.

Where you work, Morrow? MICU?


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: metalfaith]
    #27067921 - 12/02/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

At my full time job I float between the ED and the makeshift MICU they converted just for this. I used to only work ED but.. you know, staffing troubles. The  amount of VAP is highly discouraging... more than anything I dread the moment I realize I have to have a conversation with pt and family about need for intubation and ventilation... i started this job less than a year before all this went down and it has been a rough introduction to the field to say the least.

I also work as a tester part time for the county. I wish I could do this full time until this thing is over because it is much easier and pays almost as much but.. contracts and guilt and such..

Are you a nurse or a doctor?


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: metalfaith]
    #27067924 - 12/02/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Damn feevers that is crazy man

Definitely drastically different experiences during this whole thing

I actually dont take tylenol.

I hardly eat any processed foods

You are right that mother nature can be very cruel but at the same time everything we need to survive is found in nature

I am not going to make many claims as i am not well versed

It is personally hard for me to say or tell the difficulty of life in a pre-industrial civilization vs the industrial world we live in when they both seem to have pros and cons and their own set of difficulties and obstacles and issues, if you know what i mean.

I am not educated enough on these areas to make claims if i am being perfectly honest.

Same with the vaccines and covid and everything going on. The only wisdom i have in the matter is a recognition of my own ignorance and lack of knowledge to the matter.

At the same time while trying to live my life and take care of my family and loved ones, i am trying to make the right choices in all aspects of life.

And in always open to being educated and learning from people who know more than me

I guess i only have my limited experience to base things off

If my loved ones were dying all around me i most certainly would feel differently about what is going on.

I guess i am very very blessed that for the most part this covid thing has left me and the ones i love unscathed


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: morrowasted]
    #27067929 - 12/02/20 10:16 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I am an ICU nurse. Was working in what was converted into the ECMO/COVID ICU. Of course, ya know, cohorting and such.

I was working staff but I got to cash in on the crazy money they are making due to being an experienced ICU nurse. Going on my 5th or 6th year. Can't remember honestly.

Being someone who has a prior notorious inability to feel emotions, it has worked out well for me working in the dismal circumstances I have been working. Literally 1 patient getting out of our unit every 2 months is a pretty abysmal number. Alas, money was great.

Going back on the 22nd of December to a contract at the same place.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: Enkidu]
    #27067934 - 12/02/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Enkidu, I will leave the vaccine argument for Feevers/Morrow.

But please do like 3 minutes of learning on history in health. Tuberculosis, AIDS/Malaria in Africa right now, dying from perpetual diarrhea because your water isn't clean, the plague/smallpox/polio etc.

I am all about going back to the basics of growing your own food.. but just the fact that I can open my tap and drink water that won't get me sick is an insane benefit that we have.

There is no question we are a net positive from 200 years ago.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: metalfaith]
    #27067944 - 12/02/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Have you gotten covid? I havent


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #27067969 - 12/02/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

But steps were skipped in clinical trials.
Anybody who says different is lying.

Standard until these new vaccines was 1 year or longer for phase 3 alone.
Phase 3 was not started before phase 2 was over and data analysed.
Same thing with phase 2 was not started before phase 1 was over and data analysed.

Phase 3 duration was 1 year, usually longer to screen the long term side-effects and to ensure that the vaccine is efficient.

As first of these new vaccines was injected to human in march of this year can somebody please explain to me how this is not skipping corners to get the vaccine deal?

Some body please quote this and answer?

https://www.sciencealert.com/us-begins-first-human-trial-of-coronavirus-vaccine

https://www.onlymyhealth.com/first-human-trial-vaccine-of-coronavirus-has-started-in-the-us-1584440383


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Why is the covid kill count not passing the natural background deaths in the usa? [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #27067983 - 12/02/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/covid-19-vaccine-trials-cannot-tell-us-if-they-will-save-lives/

Good article about these trials.
And to add something: Moderna for example did not accept anybody to phase 3 trial if they were not in perfect health, optimum BMI etc.s No people with diabets, asthma etc.

This is not real science, this is making the dollar.


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