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Ackso
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Pc bags, are filters sufficient?
#27059352 - 11/26/20 09:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hello friends! Fairly new.. After some success and lots of contams I am reviewing my pc methods. I have searched but have not found much for answers. So I have a couple, perhaps simple questions about pc sterilization. I am mostly convinced my contam problem is with bag configuration within my pc. My success has been with 1.5lb x8 bags in my 14 litre PC. Bigger bags I have tried get contams. Upon reading how many people do their sterilization it seems common to:
Open in front of flow hood/sterile environment, then placing bags in sterile container. Is this important if I have filter patches? Are the filter patches not as good as im thinking they are? (0.5) I heat seal the bags prior to pcing, and never have broken bags. Did I just get lucky with those 1.5 lb bags? There were several..
"let cool overnight" or at least equal pressure before opening is another reccomendation. I generally run cold water over my PC wich i will stop doing, however if I need to be able to run my pc more than once a day
Are my sterility methods okay? Just better configure my bags?
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sh4d0ws
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: Ackso]
#27059402 - 11/26/20 10:41 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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What kind of PC do you own? I never get popped bags even when presealing when using an AA...I fuckin love my AA
Did you mean to say 5 micron? Or 0.5 micron?
I have done plenty of bags with the 0.5 micron filters, never put them into any containers. They sat out on a shelf. Some people say it's possible contaminations could slip through a filter size that large, but it never happened to me. There are theoretically some mold spores and bacteria that can fit through there FAIK but I bet the odds are pretty low at best.
If it's 5 micron...well I don't have any experience but that would be some pretty damn large pores in the filter IMO..sounds like a bag for fruiting and not really for colonizing
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sh4d0ws
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: sh4d0ws]
#27059405 - 11/26/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Also what are you inoculating your bags with?
I can comfortably fit 12 4lb bags into my AA 941 ...and even more if I really wanna jam it full. They sterilize just fine but I do give it about 3 to 3.5 hours once it hits 15+ PSI. I do this just to make sure the centers of the bags have also reached sterilizing temp. With jars I always did 2 hours or so
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Ackso
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: sh4d0ws]
#27059407 - 11/26/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey thanks for the response! Its a hawkins bigboy pc. And my bags are 0.5 definitely not 5 haha. So im glad to hear thats not the problem then..must be my bag configuration.. Been trying to narrow it down for weeks and think ive got. Thanks!! I inoculate with LC thats tested on agar.
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KKVguitarist
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: sh4d0ws] 1
#27059409 - 11/26/20 10:51 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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It could be in your sterilization method. #1 do the bags sit in the water? I do bags as well but I ise a 23 quart and but 3 quart mason jars on their sides underneath so I can put a few inches of water and the bags stay above the water.
In a pressure cooker it is the steam that sterilized not the water, so if the water is too high up and covering over half of your su strate then it can prevent it from.hitring the sterilization temp
Another thing, do you allow the pressure cooker to boil and vent steamfor 10 minutes before putting the rocker on? This removes all air and replaces with steam. Air co.presses at a lower temp, especially in the middle of a substrate where it can be trapped..
Also I run my.pressure cooker.for 3 hours at.pressure which is overkill but my bags never contam unless inoculated accidently with contaminated culture oxxasionally.
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sh4d0ws
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: Ackso]
#27059410 - 11/26/20 10:52 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is everything contaminating? What kind of contaminations? Do you have any pictures?
Are you properly venting your PC before adding the jiggle weight?
How long are you sterilizing for?
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Ackso
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: KKVguitarist]
#27059414 - 11/26/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Actually yes the bags usually sit in a bit of water, totally makes sense why that wouldnt work just never thought of it๐ Also I just recently learned about venting the rocker.. Which i will do from now on as well. Thanks for your reply! You guys rock!
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KKVguitarist
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: Ackso]
#27059415 - 11/26/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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occasionally. Have stuffed my.cookers and they were fine. I dont put lids or anything between them I roll them.up and stuff between 6 and 8 bags depending on how full I do that batch. I do them.on their sides so the only air that can pass thru is.minimal between the cornes where 3 bags meet
But as I said above, I raise.my bags out of the water so the steam hits them all.over, and I let my cooker build hard where a steady strong stream.of steam is coming out, then I wait 10 minutes and put the rocker on. This is very important especially for larger amounts of substrate.
And don't cool your cooker with water just turn it off and let it cool over night.
I do 3 hours like I said at pressure, because I use individual hotplates and thats the max time the timer will.go sonits what I do, but my bags never contaminate on their own I also use 0 5um bags and they have grain horse manure worm.castings straw and more in them.
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KKVguitarist
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: KKVguitarist]
#27059418 - 11/26/20 11:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah , if possible raise them above the water level and definantly vent it for 10 mons once the steam.is coming out. And normally.for.bigger bags ppl have to extend the time.a.bit Because inalready do 3 hours that works for any size.
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Ackso
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: sh4d0ws]
#27059419 - 11/26/20 11:01 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes all contamed..Contams are green ish although the smell shows up before then..kinda like cat pee. No pics..threw out the bags but yeah just learned about venting itโ
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sh4d0ws
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: sh4d0ws] 1
#27059420 - 11/26/20 11:02 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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My bottom 3 bags sit in a tiny bit of water, not much though, maybe the bottom 1" of the bags
Never had any problems related to sterilizing, only dirty inoculant
Good luck, your problem might be as simple as not venting first. If there is a mixture of air in there, your temperature won't get nearly as high as it should at 15 PSI
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Ackso
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: sh4d0ws]
#27059425 - 11/26/20 11:06 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Also I was pcing for 2h 15min to answer your question but yeah the venting thing for sure!
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KKVguitarist
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: Ackso]
#27059434 - 11/26/20 11:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah just a small amount of water won't hurt, but iver heard of.people putting lole 4 to.6 inches of water thinking the water is what was sterilizing for some reason. Jist am inch up you bag shpupd.make.no.difference
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Ackso
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: KKVguitarist]
#27059436 - 11/26/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Excellent! One more thing? Is it a big deal if the bags touch the sides?
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KKVguitarist
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: Ackso]
#27059442 - 11/26/20 11:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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My.bags touch the sides and its fine
BUT I use induction cookers with induction burners so theres not a ton of excess heat that comes.up the sides.
What I used to do is but a couple of those tyvek first class.mailong envelops around the inside of the pot and put bags inside
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KKVguitarist
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: KKVguitarist]
#27059444 - 11/26/20 11:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are these bags contaminating before being inoculated? Or did they all contaminate after being inoculated with 1 syringe
Or actually I just remembered you said your using a flow hood, are you innoculating with clean culture?.
Also with the flowhood your letting it run for 30 minutes before using it correct? I've ran into ppl that weren't aware that you have to do that
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KKVguitarist
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: KKVguitarist]
#27059449 - 11/26/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Personally I make.loquid culture as I said and iver found 30ml of liquid culture to be magic amount
And another but here
My bags are full.grain/substrate/waterretention mixes
I inject with liquid culture and then also fruit in those same bags.
I use large 0.5um bags with about 1/3 of the bag filled with the mix
I've found this is the perfect amount for really lightning fast colonization, and the amount of mycelium vs the amount of fresh air intake is good at that depth. So instead do makong a few large ones.ill.male.6 small.ones and shoot em all.up and keep a cycle going
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sh4d0ws
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: KKVguitarist]
#27059452 - 11/26/20 11:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just to add, my bags touch the sides too. I use a hotplate for my AA 941. The only way bags touching the sides of the PC can really be a problem is if you're using a gas burner and the flames are climbing up the side of the PC, heating it up hotter than necessary. But even with a gas burner you can reduce the flame drastically and maintain pressure just fine.
Basically just reaffirming what KKV said, don't worry about bags touching the sides.
I don't use any tyvek or anything, probably the only difference. I accordion fold the tops of the bottom 3 bags and the rest I kinda roll the tops over themselves. Not sure that does a good job of explaining but hopefully. Reason for accordion folds on the bottom is to keep the tops of the bags away from the water layer.
KKV, he said he's using liquid culture he tested on agar so I am not certain inoculant is the problem here but it would be good to see some pictures of the agar plates and even the contamination of the bags themselves
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Ackso
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: KKVguitarist]
#27059455 - 11/26/20 11:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Excellent! Hmm I thought they all contammed after but I just smelled a bag unninocculated and its bad. Also no im not using a flow hood and yes my cultures are clean. Great info guys!
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Ackso
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Re: Pc bags, are filters sufficient? [Re: Ackso]
#27059458 - 11/26/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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If I vent for 10 min wont that cause the water to evaporate to dangerously low levels?
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