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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? * 1
    #27056472 - 11/25/20 12:32 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

In some parts of the song it sounds like the drums and the guitar are out of sync and it really bothers me. Does anyone else notice this or is it just me?


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Edited by OutsideOfMyMind (11/25/20 02:22 AM)


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27056510 - 11/25/20 01:31 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It is. JUST slightly:

"Next and last in this series is a song that displaces half a beat: 'Black Dog', the initial track of Led Zeppelin IV (1971). ​In this case, a seven-note pattern lasting nine eighth notes... ...is repeated over common time measures, yielding rhythmic displacement of a single eighth note (half a beat) per iteration."


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #27056534 - 11/25/20 02:19 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Wow! Lol. It's been bothering me since my teen years and I'm 34 now. The guitar is playing catch up to the drums. The drum is faster than the guitar. This song is way overplayed, I don't think I can listen to it again knowing it's off beat like that. That's just..... Why would you record a song like that? Was it accidental?


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27056536 - 11/25/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Now I know why my brain feels weird listening to this song. If nobody else notices then I must be pretty sensitive to these things.


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Edited by OutsideOfMyMind (11/25/20 02:23 AM)


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27056559 - 11/25/20 04:13 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Correct, good ears! It's often argued LZ are proto-progressive rock for this exact reason, lol. It's unintentionally progressive. Their reason behind their performance here, we may never truly know!


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OfflineDilsnique
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27057116 - 11/25/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

According to an article I read several years ago, there is an overlapping of 3 different time signatures during that portion of the song.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: Dilsnique]
    #27057995 - 11/26/20 12:15 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dilsnique said:
According to an article I read several years ago, there is an overlapping of 3 different time signatures during that portion of the song.




"The song isn't as complex as it sounds.

Plant's vocal parts are straight 4/4 time. When the band kicks in the drums just continue to play in 4/4 while the guitar and bass riffage is in 5/4 time. That's what gives it that stumbling feel. That's pretty much it.

Go and listen to a live version of the track as it makes it easier to pick out the instrument arrangement. You can actually tap out a 4/4 beat with Bonham's drums all through the song. He switches from playing right on top of the beat to just behind the beat in certain parts to make it "roll" better, but it's just 4/4 all the way through. Brilliant.

You really need a good drummer who can "feel" the song to keep the rest of the band synched. I've covered the song in the past with various people and if the drummer doesn't "get" the song, it falls apart quickly."


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27060292 - 11/27/20 02:25 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

This is fairly common. In the Rolling Stones documentary, Crossfire Hurricane, bassist Bill Wyman said that drummer Charlie Watts always plays a little behind Keith Richards, and Bill plays ahead of him. He says it has a wobble, and it can create magic or completely fall apart.


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27060614 - 11/27/20 05:50 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
In some parts of the song it sounds like the drums and the guitar are out of sync and it really bothers me. Does anyone else notice this or is it just me?




also it should be noted that many rock groups recorded live together and often without a click-track even if they recorded their parts separately. this would lead to some parts sounding slightly "off" :cookiemonster:


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Is it just me or is led Zeppelin's Black Dog slightly off beat? [Re: split_by_nine]
    #27079769 - 12/09/20 12:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

split_by_nine said:
Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
In some parts of the song it sounds like the drums and the guitar are out of sync and it really bothers me. Does anyone else notice this or is it just me?




also it should be noted that many rock groups recorded live together and often without a click-track even if they recorded their parts separately. this would lead to some parts sounding slightly "off" :cookiemonster:




That can be the case, but believe it or not most of those classic rock bands would record the basic tracks live to get a good drum take. Most of the time, these guys were so with it, they'd end up keeping the entire first or second takes on stuff. Black Sabbath Paranoid was made up on lunch break and recorded in one take, IIRC!


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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