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Offlinealland
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First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me
    #27042121 - 11/16/20 01:35 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

After all the green ninja posts and "please help!!" threads I've been through here, I'm at the point where I'm starting to feel this post is a rite of passage of sorts.  As such, I've reached the stage in my progress into this hobby to lament over this most insidious and opportunistic gremlin..  so, without further ado..

This spawn started from syringe -> agar -> agar -> PF 1qt jar -> 12qt shoebox w verm/coir and .5" coir casing.  4 days into tub, I've got this:



Looped shot..


..and a surface shot to help convey overall tub progress..


From what I've learned through all the 'help me' threads, green is an indicator of the trich being in a spore stage in just that one area and, more importantly, indicates that the actual growth is much widespread than can be detected visually.

Sooo.. as I've said, i've been through enough "help!.." posts to know I should probably chuck it but, as many before had and many to come will also have, I am overrun with n00b attachment syndrome (I'm coining it here and now "NAS").  That being said, I feel like it's worth putting out there to the masses just in case I've somehow misread what I'm up against.  Bc in my head I'm thinking "maybe there's hope" and/or "maybe I can isolate, fruit now and hope for a pin or two".

I suppose what it probably comes down to whether or not the goblin trichster will only infect uncolonized sub or will it overtake and kill off healthy myc, right?  I would say the tub is around 70% colonized from what i can tell looking through the sides (yes, i didn't paint or trashbag for my first tub - was trying to KISS as much as i could).



Would be very appreciative for any and all veteran grower input.  Thanks all for looking and reading to the end! Al

Edit to add..
Quote:

Kizzle said:
I suggest using a more controlled method of pasteurization than a microwave. Trichoderma doesn't normally grow in pasteurized substrate but it grows like crazy if it gets sterilized.




I found this post [from 4yrs ago] particularly enlightening and possibly the culprit for my demise here.  To prep my bulk sub, I sewed the sleeves and neck of an old t-shirt to make a bag and boiled the coir/verm for about an hour before pressing and adding to the shoebox.  I will definitely be following Frank's pasteurization tek for future tubs.


Edited by alland (11/16/20 01:41 PM)


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: alland] * 1
    #27042135 - 11/16/20 01:41 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

NAS, i like it :smile:. You're correct with everything i read there. I guess all i can add is: IME if you get green before any pinning, then it's a loss; if you have well established pins before green shows, you may be able to stall it and still get some clean fruits to finish. So with that much green underneath, this isn't a tub i'd let sit and see what happens.

e/
Current Tek list - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24144021

Coir prep - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24077162#24077162

You don't really need to pasteurize coir either. Pasteurize is more for things like wood and poo.


Edited by LtLurker (11/16/20 01:44 PM)


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Offlinealland
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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: LtLurker]
    #27042157 - 11/16/20 02:02 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

Thanks Lt!  I really appreciate the input and links.  So do you think I may have compounded the issue by over-heating my coir?  Does that destroy its natural antibacterial ability?

What I'm really quite surprised over is how attached to this stupid box of fungus I really am.  Is this normal?  Also, do veteran growers still deal with contam issues or is it more of a stage you get through as you gain XP and level up?  :grin:


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Edited by alland (11/16/20 06:45 PM)


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InvisibleFengShuiGorilla
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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: alland]
    #27042241 - 11/16/20 03:21 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

Yes!! I think us new guys get overly attached to our babies.  I've only accomplished 1.5 grows so am still a n00b myself, but I found if you see green and can catch it in time, you may be able to save a bit, but you have to remove the good stuff, not the bad - simply because the bad is all over the sides and lid by the time you see it.. my first batch, I had some green on one of my cakes.  Even though it wasn't much, I ripped the cake in half, replanted it into another jar with some fresh grains and just let it grow.  Didn't get a lot, but got more than I would have had I tossed it all.

But I still get green everytime I go for a second flush.  I'm thinking I need to change things up a bit and maybe stop looking at them every 2 hours :smile:


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: FengShuiGorilla]
    #27042329 - 11/16/20 04:24 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

Last i read it doesn't really make a difference with coir most of the time. It's doesn't really have much nutritional value so there's not "good microbes" you're messing with by sterilizing or pasteurizing. There's been circumstances where i've sterilized and pasteurized coir and have seen others do it; it works fine usually.

yea i think we all want them to do well, but mistakes are gonna happen and you'll still have contams appear time to time so you get kinda used to it. I don't think anyone really grows 100% success rate, you can see lots of vets show a fail here and there.


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #27043433 - 11/17/20 10:06 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

My first shoeboxes died the same way. I packed it way to hard, didn’t use enough spawn, the sub was WAY over field capacity and I over misted the shit out of it, and I forgot to sanitize the shoebox before I filled it. It was a failure, but I threw them out ASAP and started working on my other grain and my agar. Don’t let this stop you, keep going!


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: Th3AngryCuban] * 1
    #27043477 - 11/17/20 10:46 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Burn that shit..wash your hands, change your clothes and make sure your spawn is clean..we all get the mean green so look back at what did or didnt do and go from there...Make sure you vent your PC before cooking anything..this gets all the air out and gives you proper sterilization...people laugh at me when I say that but that's on them..good luck mate!


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: Sunny Skies] * 1
    #27048372 - 11/20/20 07:19 AM (3 months, 12 days ago)

And man does it whammy fast.
New here, been reading a lot here and everywhere else. Couple of interesting journal articles I read tonight after I got home and found a beautiful field of green on a fresh shoebox.
Anyways, two things that caught my eye are increasing PH with quick line. And the other article discussed the use of Carbendazim.
A fungicide, reducing myceyial growth and stopping sporing. Most articles related to commercial applications of button and oyster shrooms and how tuff this trich is a b-+-& to get rid of.
My question being, are these viable options with the cultivation of cubensis.
I have yet to find any current treatments.
Guess it has affected the commercial side drastically, hence the research.
Both the PH increase, up to 11, and carbendazim. Get rid of the green ninja or slow considerably, been a long night of reading, yet encourage the growth of the target species. The PH increase slowed it for a bit,
I found the above fungicide online small packs cheap.
Before I toss this box, I have sprinkled Calcium hydroxide liberally over the top.I might also place in the sun today. Although increased heat encourages the GN, not fruiting. Maybe fridge instead? Increase PH lower temp. Don't have time for ordering fungicide. Will order for future though.
As well in reading, I think since it's only been 5 days since casing, contamination was where? Gotta go back and read. Follow better serialization procedure, don't do things at ground level, use purified water, I sprinkled water out of tap using my hands, I probably should not have done that either,

I do have a second box in closet, trying colonization then fruiting as well as straight to fruiting.
Do we have better photos of green ninja before it turns green,
Might go take photos now, see what's up. Shower first or at least a good hand scrub and sterilization before opening. Or touching the box. Mind you it's probably screwed at this point as well.
Anyways, I've obviously gleaned a few of the things I've done wrong to encourage the growth.
On an aside, I did add both peroxide and pickling lime to my substrate consisting of vermiculite, straw, steel cut oats( leave those out next time). After pasteurizing in a cooler.
I'll probably do straight coir or coir and vermiculite next run. Couldn't find coir in town when I decided to do this.

Anyways,  main thought was current solutions to green mold, obviously a lot of research out there as it affects the commercial side of things.

I do greatly appreciate the wealth of knowledge those of you on this site freely give.
Thanks to all who contribute here.


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: LtLurker]
    #27052456 - 11/22/20 05:42 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Omg.. what I'm about to share is absolutely bonkers but first of all, thanks for all the empathy and thoughts.  As many of you know it really blows to get green gobied right out of the gate.  I'm learning every day and hoping to not repeat mistakes as i move forward.


Ok now.. look, here's the thing, I *know* how fufu/wuwu this is going to sound but I also feel like not sharing it just isn't fair.  Not because i think it should be a tek or something that ppl should try to reproduce by any means but this was my experience that actually happened and, well, if I can't share it in *this* forum, I don't think there's a group of like minds on the planet willing to accept what happened to me and my box (stoppit.. stay w me).

So, as you know if you followed this thread from the start, I got whammied.  I was pissed, I was emotional and all ready to set fire to everything.  But that's not what I did.. I thought about it,  a l l o t.  I thought about it until I remembered reading years ago about an experiment done on two plants: one was given hours of praise every day and the other had insults and hateful energy projected at it.  Purportedly, the results showed that the praised plant did well while the other one nearly died.  Whether or not this was real was irrelevant.  I was four pints into my homebrewed Imperial Red Ale and this was really jiving w me.  I mean,.. all I needed was some hate and love and I was adequately armed with large quantities of both.  So yeah, you see where this is going.

I focused on the green shithead first and man, I let the little bastard have it.  Staring through the side of the box, I tried melting it full on scorched Earth style.  Silently, mind you, I thought about how much I hated it and wished it would die and spare the adjacent, welcome life form a slow, agonizing death.  I pictured it slowly, drying out and dying, boiling in acid and several other unsavory demises.

Then I turned the box and praised our welcome guest.  I urged it to fruit such that it would complete its life stage well into the reproductive stage.  I pictured myself merging with it on previous voyages and how I was part of its lifecycle and how much it still had to teach me.  I thought about much I appreciated how far it had come and asked it to fight on.  I gave it the full - on Mick to Rocky Balboa "fight!" speech.  Then I passed out and forgot about it for two days. 

Then when I finally succumbed to reality and went to go grab it to dump a load of bleach water into it and let it soak for a day, I saw this:


Now.. I get it, ok this isn't normal and I should firebomb the entire tub and cut my losses BUT.. my NAS was in full swing and the planar cleansing by bleach option just wasn't on the table anymore.  Sooo, yeah.. I moved it away from everything else, got myself a pint of Red Ale and went for round #2, then three, and four.  A couple days later, last night, it looked like this:



So today, they're still going.  And, yes.. even after all the ale-induced nuclear hate lasers I shot at it, the goblin shitsplatter is still there:


..holding its own but not growing [yet] beyond this point.

Honestly, I'm not sure what to think here but I'm going to let it do it's thing.  And fwiw, I don't recommend doing this.  Chances are, i got lucky, the tub got cold which stunted the trich, a solar flare shot a rogue photon right through the green patch, a fruit fly barfed some anti-fungal acid onto it.. I dunno.  Who knows.. I don't.  I just know when to NOT look a gift horse in the mouth.

Anywaaaaayy, look I know how weird and stupid this all sounds but I'm running with it for now and just praying for a sporeprint.  Thought I would share.. thanks for reading! mushluvz

Oh and Non-sequitur - [my cat] ate a tiny little 8mm high pin and I can confirm that [he said] pins are quite potent little boogers so if anyone was wondering if there was any truth to that.. yeah, that's the case.


--------------------
Always learning.. always growing.


Edited by alland (11/22/20 05:45 PM)


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: alland] * 1
    #27052471 - 11/22/20 05:53 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Lol thats funny. Yea the uninfected parts will try to fruit. The issue is how fast that green spreads. You'll see.

I dont recommend pushing it, but if your gonna try and eat these, try to pick well before that green gets to close and infects the fruit. You don't wanna eat mold and keep in mind its infecting more than the visibly green area.


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: LtLurker]
    #27054354 - 11/23/20 07:51 PM (3 months, 8 days ago)

Thanks Lt.  I was wondering about that and whether or not the goop would somehow make its way into the fruiting bodies and either dilute or infect with unsavories that could make one ill.

Here's what the little trains that thought they could are up to today:


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: alland]
    #27055097 - 11/24/20 10:40 AM (3 months, 7 days ago)

g'Morning all.  Progress update:


"...i think i can i think i can... "


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: FlBlues]
    #27055105 - 11/24/20 10:47 AM (3 months, 7 days ago)

Really interested in seeing the outcome of any trials you're doing wrt to your post here, FlBlues.  Please keep us posted!  I was wondering the same thing.  It seems like most of our tubs and generalized tek is a wide Venn diagram common ground of where trich and desired mushies like to live - which begs the question:  Is there a pH, temp, application of natural/herbal/organic fungicide, or [other growing control] that favors our desired mushies but creates an inhospitable environment for unwanted invaders?

If you start a new thread on this (which i think you should), please link to it from here.  Thanks!

Quote:

FlBlues said:
And man does it whammy fast.
New here, been reading a lot here and everywhere else. Couple of interesting journal articles I read tonight after I got home and found a beautiful field of green on a fresh shoebox.
Anyways, two things that caught my eye are increasing PH with quick line. And the other article discussed the use of Carbendazim.
A fungicide, reducing myceyial growth and stopping sporing. Most articles related to commercial applications of button and oyster shrooms and how tuff this trich is a b-+-& to get rid of.
My question being, are these viable options with the cultivation of cubensis.
I have yet to find any current treatments.
Guess it has affected the commercial side drastically, hence the research.
Both the PH increase, up to 11, and carbendazim. Get rid of the green ninja or slow considerably, been a long night of reading, yet encourage the growth of the target species. The PH increase slowed it for a bit,
I found the above fungicide online small packs cheap.
Before I toss this box, I have sprinkled Calcium hydroxide liberally over the top.I might also place in the sun today. Although increased heat encourages the GN, not fruiting. Maybe fridge instead? Increase PH lower temp. Don't have time for ordering fungicide. Will order for future though.
As well in reading, I think since it's only been 5 days since casing, contamination was where? Gotta go back and read. Follow better serialization procedure, don't do things at ground level, use purified water, I sprinkled water out of tap using my hands, I probably should not have done that either,

I do have a second box in closet, trying colonization then fruiting as well as straight to fruiting.
Do we have better photos of green ninja before it turns green,
Might go take photos now, see what's up. Shower first or at least a good hand scrub and sterilization before opening. Or touching the box. Mind you it's probably screwed at this point as well.
Anyways, I've obviously gleaned a few of the things I've done wrong to encourage the growth.
On an aside, I did add both peroxide and pickling lime to my substrate consisting of vermiculite, straw, steel cut oats( leave those out next time). After pasteurizing in a cooler.
I'll probably do straight coir or coir and vermiculite next run. Couldn't find coir in town when I decided to do this.

Anyways,  main thought was current solutions to green mold, obviously a lot of research out there as it affects the commercial side of things.

I do greatly appreciate the wealth of knowledge those of you on this site freely give.
Thanks to all who contribute here.




--------------------
Always learning.. always growing.


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OfflineLtLurker Happy Birthday!
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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: alland]
    #27055237 - 11/24/20 12:02 PM (3 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

alland said:
g'Morning all.  Progress update:


"...i think i can i think i can... "



lookin good so far. I see missing caps, did you get hungry?


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Offlinealland
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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #27055304 - 11/24/20 12:37 PM (3 months, 7 days ago)

lmao!!  Man you don't miss a thing!  They're actually off doing prints right now.  I just added that little flat one in the bottom right and one other one that just dropped its veil so there are four currently under the print hood.  :laugh: :laugh:


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Re: First Shoebox - Green Ninja Whammied Me [Re: alland]
    #27055957 - 11/24/20 08:19 PM (3 months, 7 days ago)

Oh ok. If they look like the rest of the caps be ready to try more. Usually you want to take a cap that's fully open and dropping spores already. on the rest i can't see any spores dropping yet.


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