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Offlinetomcards
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Just coir instead of CVG?
    #27055894 - 11/24/20 05:31 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Guys,

I've read several recent posts in which people stated that there is no need to use CVG as a substrate because coir alone is equally effective.

I'm shocked!

I've successfully used CVG in the past, but if I can avoid messing with the other ingredients, I'd prefer to use just coir if the results are the same.

Is CVG outdated?  Will cooked coir alone suffice? What is the current consensus?  Please share your results.


Thanks,

Tom


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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: tomcards]
    #27055903 - 11/24/20 05:39 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Coir hydrated with hot water from the tap is perfectly fine and what most do nowadays. I only use verm to get the moisture content right if the coir alone was wetter than I wanted.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: One of Us]
    #27055910 - 11/24/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I do Coir and Verm because I find the verm actually really helps the myc spread ime.
Pasteurized of course. I know Coir hold up against a lot of contams but I play it safe.


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Offlinekanemush
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: mushhead]
    #27055952 - 11/24/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

coir is fine no need for verm imho.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: kanemush]
    #27055968 - 11/24/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I tend to argue that verm allows for better water absorption but I don't have the energy today.
Just coir is perfect if you don't want to use anything else, it works well.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: mushhead]
    #27056069 - 11/24/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Big 140l bags of Verm are cheap.
Adding 2-3 quarts per brick of coir is cheap.
Keeps costs down even though coir is cheap.
Makes my substrate cheap.
I'm cheap.

I add the verm.

I add gypsum as well because commercial growers do it. They're growing white button mushrooms with it so who the fuck knows if it helps. RR says 20% but RR also says a lot of things.


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OfflineNickShade
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: starbones]
    #27056108 - 11/24/20 07:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Is there a significant benefit from using CVG vs. just coir? I've only ever used CVG.


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InvisibleZiran
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: NickShade]
    #27056132 - 11/24/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I like to use gypsum just to help prevent PH swings. other than that you can rock whatever you like for coir mixes.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: Ziran]
    #27056248 - 11/24/20 09:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Gypsum doesn't prevent ph swings.


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OfflineBLINKfan420
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27056298 - 11/24/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The only solid up side of using verm in the mix is that the verm will keep your sub hydrated for subsequent flushes.

Other than that. No real benefit.

BLiNK


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Offlinepitriot
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: BLINKfan420]
    #27056360 - 11/24/20 10:10 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't that benefit enough ?


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OfflineBLINKfan420
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: pitriot]
    #27056408 - 11/24/20 11:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

You could probably pull at least 2 solid flushes out of a coir only tub.  Some people toss their tubs after the first flush though, because the subsequent flushes don't produce nearly as much.  In this case. You could leave out the verm.

I like to drive tubs as far as they can go.  "No Mushroom Left Behind."  So I still use verm.  It seems to keep the humidity up well and I can flush at least 3-4 times in a tub.

Obviously each flash will produce less and less. But to me, it's more valuable than tossing out the tub.

BLiNK


--------------------



All my pictures are drawn from imagination.  I don't even know what a mushroom is.


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Offlinetomcards
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: BLINKfan420]
    #27056649 - 11/25/20 06:28 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the information, gents!


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Invisibleseifer699
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: tomcards]
    #27056737 - 11/25/20 08:34 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Coir itself is no different from cvg. Done multiple experiments to compare.


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: seifer699]
    #27056968 - 11/25/20 11:05 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

If you have verm your sub can hold more water. Mushrooms come from water.


More water more mushrooms, less water less mushrooms.

Ask yourself why eatyualive and pastywhyte use 3qts of verm in their tubs if it does nothing.

Are they wasting their money and time because they're uninformed after decades of growing?

No.


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
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You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: filthyknees]
    #27056993 - 11/25/20 11:26 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

filthyknees said:
If you have verm your sub can hold more water. Mushrooms come from water.


More water more mushrooms, less water less mushrooms.

Ask yourself why eatyualive and pastywhyte use 3qts of verm in their tubs if it does nothing.

Are they wasting their money and time because they're uninformed after decades of growing?

No.



:whathesaid:


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: mushhead] * 1
    #27057003 - 11/25/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The only thing I allow myself to take out of CVG is the G, the V is sacred. Verm also improves the consistency of the substrate and makes it more fluffy/airy.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: Josex]
    #27057009 - 11/25/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Filthy is just anti bod at any chance he can find. He's never got over it and never will. Do what works for you. Try it both ways and make your own decisions


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27057033 - 11/25/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Where's the anti-bod in this thread? :joneswtf:


--------------------
Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung
Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.




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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27057036 - 11/25/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

ime I have found that adding verm to the sub allows for faster consolidation.
I get better water absorption and a slightly bigger first flush.
This is based off my own experiments with just Coir tubs grown along side C/V and C/V/G.
Gypsum doesn't really do much other than perhaps minute nutrition imo.
However my C/V tub out colonized my just Coir tub.
My conclusion is that Verm allows the myc to breathe easier and absorb the needed amount of water for fruiting/hyphae growth.
I did this experiment because of the conflicting information I've found everywhere.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: starbones] * 1
    #27057074 - 11/25/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I think the only reason I use gypsum anymore is because what the fuck else am I gonna do with the massive bag I bought? I don't know if I'll buy anymore someday but I don't see myself running out anytime soon. I don't put it in my grain jars anymore as it doesn't seem to do anything there and I never have shaking issues without it.

I'd die without verm though, especially if I overshoot my FC it's a nice bandaid to have.


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Offlinetomcards
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: starbones]
    #27057119 - 11/25/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Guys,

Based upon your feedback, I'm going to dispense with the gypsum and keep the verm for hydration purposes.

Thanks again.


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Offlinetomcards
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: tomcards] * 1
    #27057138 - 11/25/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

In terms of coir/vermiculite proportions, is it appropriate to use 2 quarts of vermiculite for each 650 gram brick of coir?

And then there's the controversial debate over how much water to add to a 650 gram coir/verm mix.  I've heard anything from 2.5 quarts to 4 quarts.  Is there any consensus on the amount of water?

Thanks.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: tomcards]
    #27057146 - 11/25/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I just use 2qts every time, when I'm doing APE/PE/PESA or anything PE really I add an extra qt of verm.


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: mushhead]
    #27057480 - 11/25/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

For a brick and 2qts verm I've always used a gallon (=4 quarts).

Either two or three qts of verm is fine, if you add an extra qt of verm(3) I'd add a half qt of water.

Check my TC compilation on coir verm in the signature for more coir verm stuff.


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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OfflineAtmozFear
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: filthyknees]
    #27057493 - 11/25/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

That’s what I use, 1 gal water per brick


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OfflineTomato_tuhmahto
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: AtmozFear]
    #27057584 - 11/25/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I only use coir and gypsum but only because I haven't got my hand on verm yet. Coir only works fine, ive been told to toss the gypsum but i use 5-10% so im sure it does SOMETHING. Ill be using verm as soon as I can get some. I know its easy to find.



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Offlinetomcards
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: Tomato_tuhmahto]
    #27058293 - 11/26/20 08:39 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks again!


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Offlinerotor7
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: tomcards]
    #27612872 - 01/09/22 12:06 PM (2 years, 19 days ago)

Great post looks like CV is the preferred sadly I just bought more G

I love these informative threads


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OfflineBird_mAn642
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: tomcards]
    #27713084 - 03/29/22 03:54 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I’ve used only coir and had great results my last tubs went 4-5 flushes and a little over 7oz dried. That’s all I’ve ever done other than starting with brf cakes.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: Bird_mAn642]
    #27713565 - 03/29/22 11:19 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I use straight coir, no interest in experimenting further with mined substrates. Using coir already weighs on my conscience enough.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: tomcards]
    #27713571 - 03/29/22 11:29 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Just coir works but adding verm makes for nice texture and consistency.


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OfflineBobbins
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Re: Just coir instead of CVG? [Re: LotKid]
    #27713590 - 03/30/22 12:44 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Gypsum does absolutely nothing in my experience.


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