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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: Ignorantape]
    #27053237 - 11/23/20 12:06 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Psychedelics just remove the boundaries and if you have trouble already then it might not be a good idea. Or it might be depends i guess.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27053326 - 11/23/20 04:09 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Typerwritermonky said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
Might help. Psychedelics can open new pathways in the brain.

No harm trying. Go large and see what happens.




Except for the actual harm that comes from people like him taking large doses, wigging out, and being restrained or arrested.



Yeah, he's not psychotic man, just psychopathic. Bit of a difference there.

Then again.. who knows. Might be dangerous.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineMuscario
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: zeusophobia1]
    #27053704 - 11/23/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I would not recommend you at all to use psychedelics like this, totally by yourself.

Properly you would need experienced surveillance to help you guiding and digesting the experience in order to make it improve your condition in any way, because a diagnosed person using entheogens randomly without any guide is more like playing the russian roulette and could easily end up making it worst.

If you are totally convinced that psychedelics are what you really need i would seriously recommend you to consider looking for experienced psychological or at least shamanic counsel and surveillance to help you with it, and probably using ayahuasca/DMT over mushrooms.

This would be risky anyway but at least you will enhance the chances to make it profitable.

And in any case, i would encourage you to consider other alternatives like trying a vipassana course/retreat because after quite a few registered experiences raw meditation have shown to have a positive impact in conditions like yours, being far safer. It is something that could lead you to the best possible outcome of using psychedelics, even to a strong and mind changing breakthrough or psychedelic experience, but in a much more natural and progressive way that could help you to get rid of most of the risks using substances.


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Offlineenzofilo
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: Muscario]
    #27053810 - 11/23/20 11:40 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I'm curious about your "condition" because I have felt similarly in quite a few situations.I'd be helpful if you could elaborate a bit.

IME shrooms make me feel a lot of things, like love, calm, peacefulness but I've also felt pain, anxiety and have gotten bored a couple of times.
I usually take 2/2.5g.

Taking a higher dose in the company of a reliable friend or guide sounds like a good idea.


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: enzofilo]
    #27054849 - 11/24/20 01:58 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It could expand your mind and make you think in more psychopathic ways rather than curing it.

And your doses are too low. I think 2g would be the bare minimum to have a profound experience.


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: zeusophobia1]
    #27054941 - 11/24/20 05:09 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zeusophobia1 said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Quote:

zeusophobia1 said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
I've always been interested as to how psychopathic personalities respond to psychedelics. How do you find cannabis? Would you get loved up if you dropped X? Do you experience any fear when using psychedelics and is it possible to have bad trips?

But what's the background? How/why were you diagnosed as psychopathic and what are the reasons you decided to take mushrooms in order to try for some kind of cure? Are you not moved to do this out of care for your family or loved ones, or is it just because of legal issues or something?




I'm prone to paranoia on cannabis. I haven't had a bad trip yet.

Pretty much the family thing. It seems shitty that my parents care so much about me yet I don't give a shit.





Hum. I would be skeptical that you are indeed psychopathic if prone to any sort of anxiety or paranoia, though I'm obviously not an expert.

But from what I've read on the subject, one of the salient features of psychopathy seems to be a distinct lack of anxiety/paranoia/fear in situations others would find highly stressful, for example in prison. The way I understood the condition was that it exists on the opposite end of the mental health spectrum to things like anxiety disorders or psychosis.

This isn't coming from me by the way, but Robert Hare and Kent Kiehl (who went on to pioneer research into psychopathy) whose two books are probably the most informative and authoritative I have ever read on the subject (although Kents book is a little unfocused at times).

Ted Bundy for (extreme) was on death row quite happily smoking Cannabis without a care in the world, whereas a person prone to worrying more, in that situation would probably have a panic attack! Psychopaths are just not really wired up to feel fear or worry about things, so if you do I would ask for a second opinion maybe!

But we still don't know how you came to be diagnosed as psychopathic? You didn't do it yourself online did you? :grin:

Are you prone to worrying or paranoia without cannabis?

As the adage goes too, if you're worried about being a psychopath you are probably not a psychopath!





I don't have anxiety or fear. I do have paranoid delusions... which mushrooms don't seem to make worse so far. Weed makes it way worse.





But just so I can understand how does that actually work?

How can one have paranoia or paranoid delusions without having any anxiety or fear? I see you said on another thread that you are suffering from paranoid schizophrenia as well?

But what I don't understand is how could one be experiencing paranoid (psychosis) delusions without being wracked with some form of anxiety or fear?

I have experienced paranoid psychosis myself and it was just about as far from fearless and worry-free psychopathy as I'd imagine one could get!     

Maybe this is something I just don't understand properly, or maybe we have our terminology mixed up (NPD, sociopathology/psychopathy etc) but if you don't mind me asking, what form do your paranoid delusions take?

Do you hear bullying voices for example? A commentary, or multitude of different voices commenting maliciously about everything you are doing?

I once heard a story about a psychotic patient who killed someone because his delusions had convinced him he was psychopathic!

I'm not saying this is true with your case but it does show how a psychotic patient can end up believing himself to be almost anything/anyone.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Invisiblefunky123
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: wolf8312]
    #27055274 - 11/24/20 10:13 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
How can one have paranoia or paranoid delusions without having any anxiety or fear? I see you said on another thread that you are suffering from paranoid schizophrenia as well?




Quote:

TABLE 1. DSM-5 Criteria for Paranoid Personality Disordera
A. A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that their motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
1. Suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her.
2. Is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates.
3. Is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that the information will be used maliciously against him or her.
4. Reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events.
5. Persistently bears grudges (i.e., is unforgiving of insults, injuries, or slights).
6. Perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack.
7. Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner.

(https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp-rj.2016.110103)





"Fear" in this context isn't necessarily associated with a feeling of anxiety. Like when normal people say "I fear you're right.". That also isn't usually accompanied with an actual feeling of fear. It just refers to identification of something detrimental or harmful.

In that sense, you can (falsely) anticipate harmful scheming from other people while not feeling anxiety - just (falsely) realizing something is going down.

If you suspect somebody to dislike you and talk bad behind your back - do you necessarily feel fear? Mostly not I assume. Now extrapolate this to suspecting somebody wanting to bankrupt you or steel from you or kill you. Most people would respond to that with anxiety. Some people (psychopaths) will just identify it and respond - while referring to this thought process confusingly as "fear" and psychiatrically as "paranoia" because that identification is flawed to begin with.

If you want to understand better how psychopaths compute their environment, I recommend this blog: http://www.psychopathicwritings.com/. There are a lot of people talking about how they are psychopaths while in fact being just delusional and glorifying that condition, trying to create a tangible and meaningful identity for their tormented mind. The guy from that blog does not strike me as such. He describes himself very consistent and plausible.


--------------------
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Edited by funky123 (11/24/20 10:18 AM)


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: funky123]
    #27055300 - 11/24/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

funky123 said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
How can one have paranoia or paranoid delusions without having any anxiety or fear? I see you said on another thread that you are suffering from paranoid schizophrenia as well?




Quote:

TABLE 1. DSM-5 Criteria for Paranoid Personality Disordera
A. A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that their motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
1. Suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her.
2. Is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates.
3. Is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that the information will be used maliciously against him or her.
4. Reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events.
5. Persistently bears grudges (i.e., is unforgiving of insults, injuries, or slights).
6. Perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack.
7. Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner.

(https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp-rj.2016.110103)





"Fear" in this context isn't necessarily associated with a feeling of anxiety. Like when normal people say "I fear you're right.". That also isn't usually accompanied with an actual feeling of fear. It just refers to identification of something detrimental or harmful.

In that sense, you can (falsely) anticipate harmful scheming from other people while not feeling anxiety - just (falsely) realizing something is going down.

If you suspect somebody to dislike you and talk bad behind your back - do you necessarily feel fear? Mostly not I assume. Now extrapolate this to suspecting somebody wanting to bankrupt you or steel from you or kill you. Most people would respond to that with anxiety. Some people (psychopaths) will just identify it and respond - while referring to this thought process confusingly as "fear" and psychiatrically as "paranoia" because that identification is flawed to begin with.





Yes at first I assumed something like that myself, but as I mentioned above, in another thread he also says he is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. As mentioned already, psychopathy is a very specific personality disorder characterized by a pronounced lack of emotion, which means that normal responses to stress such as anxiety and fear are absent or greatly diminished, as the OP himself said they were.

But then can one really have paranoid schizophrenia and be lacking in fear/anxiety? Not claiming to know the answer by the way, just something I don’t understand and am a bit skeptical about.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: wolf8312]
    #27055344 - 11/24/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Very interesting.

It would seem that the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia, as written in many places, would include "profound fear and anxiety". And a defining phenomenon of psychopathy is the "Shallow Affect", or the "inability to feel emotions deeply enough to elicit specific feelings/responses".

So if all of that is true, wouldn't being a "psychopath" be incompatible with paranoid schizophrenia?

I think the problem is that, we don't have a full understanding of the complexities of mental illness. The "range" of symptoms that are experienced by people with a specific mental illness can be inordinately large (so much so that misdiagnosis is a common problem).

The question then would be, are the diagnoses that the OP has received correct? Was there a possible misdiagnosis?

It seems reasonable that someone who has "delusions" can be deluded to think that they have no feelings. But it seems unlikely that, if lack of feeling is necessary to be a "psychopath" that one could have paranoid schizophrenia which seems marked by extreme negative emotions.

And OP, we don't know if mushrooms will help you. We don't understand enough about the nature of psychopathy and how it might be affected by the actives in mushrooms.


--------------------


Edited by Socrateshroom (11/24/20 11:04 AM)


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Offlinezeusophobia1
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27055865 - 11/24/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia at 19. I had intense fear and anxiety at the time.

I no longer experience any emotions. I think I grew into the psychopathy.

To report back, the mushrooms made me extremely calm last night after a lemon tek.


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: zeusophobia1]
    #27056608 - 11/25/20 05:51 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zeusophobia1 said:
I was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia at 19. I had intense fear and anxiety at the time.

I no longer experience any emotions. I think I grew into the psychopathy.

To report back, the mushrooms made me extremely calm last night after a lemon tek.




Growing research suggest psychopathy is a condition a person is born with and not something he becomes. If you look into a psychopaths childhood, for the parents, there will almost always have been early evidence of the condition (even if not overtly criminal) where they realized something wasn't right with the child (just as if you had a child with autism).

Sociopaths can develop a lack of conscience over time, for example if one grows up in a mafia family in which crime is considered normal, but even sociopaths will still often have there own version of morality within the moral parameters of their criminal fraternity.

One of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia however can be blunted affect (I used to get this feeling at the end of a big trip but it's no doubt far worse with a life long illness) where the patient feels flat and emotionally impoverished.

Maybe it is these symptoms you are mistaking with psychopathy?


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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InvisibleThe Thing
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: wolf8312]
    #27058105 - 11/26/20 03:17 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Im not sure if psychopaths even admit to being psychopaths, they dont like being identified as one.. and yeah :whathesaid: it may just be a case of those schizophrenic meds dulling you but who knows, its a strange world.

You're not really giving us much to work with here, pretty vague..

Surely you cant become paranoid as a psychopath? I'm very familiar with paranoia, its all fear based.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: zeusophobia1] * 2
    #27058191 - 11/26/20 07:00 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zeusophobia1 said:
I was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia at 19. I had intense fear and anxiety at the time.

I no longer experience any emotions. I think I grew into the psychopathy.

To report back, the mushrooms made me extremely calm last night after a lemon tek.




I do not buy heavily into genetic psychopathy, especially as you indicate growing into it. this sounds more like finding the domain and settling in there.

and from your report you also found a nice settling into shrooming peacefulness.

the psychological labels may have just been assigned due to the outfall of politics and drug companies distorting medical integrity into the business of subjugating the masses. Doctors think they have to find druggable disorders.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27058233 - 11/26/20 08:01 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

zeusophobia1 said:
I was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia at 19. I had intense fear and anxiety at the time.

I no longer experience any emotions. I think I grew into the psychopathy.

To report back, the mushrooms made me extremely calm last night after a lemon tek.




I do not buy heavily into genetic psychopathy, especially as you indicate growing into it. this sounds more like finding the domain and settling in there.

and from your report you also found a nice settling into shrooming peacefulness.

the psychological labels may have just been assigned due to the outfall of politics and drug companies distorting medical integrity into the business of subjugating the masses. Doctors think they have to find druggable disorders.




I think if you read Kiehl‘s book you might be persuaded that psychology, for so long such a lot of barely philosophical waffle, is increasingly evolving into an honest to God science as the technology is finally catching up. The research into psychopathy itself was supported by peer review studies that proved pretty conclusively that psychopathy was not an abstract or subjective concept, but a physical abnormality (for want of a better word) demonstrably distinguishing psychopathic brains from those of non psychopaths. Not to say that the mental health industry in the US and elsewhere isn’t corrupt as shit of course, but I’m not sure total cynicism is warranted haha!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



Edited by wolf8312 (11/26/20 08:10 AM)


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: wolf8312]
    #27058595 - 11/26/20 11:28 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

could it be that they prescribe too much medication?

I think I got too high a dose

I was functioning almost pretty well in 2014 but when I got more medication I could not do as much

it's on of the most significant things in my life

and maybe baddest

could we lower the dose?


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27058602 - 11/26/20 11:31 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

currently I get 4 pills in the evening but I'd rather get three

the thing is it is more important how we do than how we have it

and the doctors might be prescribing from a medical viewpoint where they don't understand the other things as well how one has it etc.

I mean they could be thinking this symptom I want to rid

I am a doctor I am just suppoes to rid symptoms

when really they detract wildly from it

aren't we supposed to not let them get away with that?


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: wolf8312]
    #27058793 - 11/26/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

zeusophobia1 said:
I was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia at 19. I had intense fear and anxiety at the time.

I no longer experience any emotions. I think I grew into the psychopathy.

To report back, the mushrooms made me extremely calm last night after a lemon tek.




I do not buy heavily into genetic psychopathy, especially as you indicate growing into it. this sounds more like finding the domain and settling in there.

and from your report you also found a nice settling into shrooming peacefulness.

the psychological labels may have just been assigned due to the outfall of politics and drug companies distorting medical integrity into the business of subjugating the masses. Doctors think they have to find druggable disorders.




I think if you read Kiehl‘s book you might be persuaded that psychology, for so long such a lot of barely philosophical waffle, is increasingly evolving into an honest to God science as the technology is finally catching up. The research into psychopathy itself was supported by peer review studies that proved pretty conclusively that psychopathy was not an abstract or subjective concept, but a physical abnormality (for want of a better word) demonstrably distinguishing psychopathic brains from those of non psychopaths. Not to say that the mental health industry in the US and elsewhere isn’t corrupt as shit of course, but I’m not sure total cynicism is warranted haha!



the CV from Wikepedia:
"Kent A. Kiehl is a neuroscientist with research interests in cognitive neuroscience, psychopathy, interaction of neuroscience and law, and behavioral prediction."
lets us in on the key to his equation:
unraveled backwards
predict behavior in the context of law using neuroscience.
it is a results based approach that is arguably supported by neuroscientific evidence.
I went to https://kentkiehl.com/ which has many links using brain imaging
he is definitely in the middle of it all
https://www.exploratorium.edu/visit/calendar/balance-bringing-science-justice-david-faigman-may-21-2015
however, what he is in the middle of is a bit of a shuffle to be very casually blunt.
The courtroom is where a we find both drama and money for experts upon whom many decisions will be depended.
The offenders will be medicated to docility.
The court will be satisfied that their expert is satisfied,
and the expert can add some technical jargon that can be inscribed along with recommended dosage and duration of sentence.
everything hunky dory.
quoting from Wikipedia
"The laboratory Mind Research Network headed by Kiehl collected the world largest sample of brain scans of incarcerated people using a mobile MRI scanner.[3][4] They also started collecting brain scan of people in contact sports to study effect of contact sports on brain ("Brain Safe Project"). [5]".
this is interesting and truly makes him THE PREEMINENT EXPERT in the field for using portable MRI to record brains from known felons.

We are all familiar with what the results can look like showing areas of greater and lesser metabolism.
This does show how the landscape in one brain is tilted differently than in another brain, however, these brainscapes are blurry, showing the drift of energy usage without any regard to the content of experiences - and I argue that the brain is all about experiencing in real time.

When I see these prints, I see the ruts but not who ran those paths or why or what else was happening at the same time which is very critical.

Those images are not time slices, but time smears, they may show heat where music was playing but they show no music or signal of any kind at all.

This is like the early days of photography, and he is the king of prison MRI photography with all the authority of Mesmer.

I still have to agree that outrageous behavior should be contained, and defanged. I am glad I am not the one who has to do it. I have occasionally wished someone would come and contain somebody that was pestering me, but it seldom gets to the stage that we need to bring in the law, and the experts who are today's Kent Kiehl.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineChucklesCheebah
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27059029 - 11/26/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

If you are a true psychopath that feels no empathy i dont believe psychadelics will cause you to feel empathy. They will most likely teach you to be a more creative psychopath. Charles Manson loved psychedelics.
If you truely are a man that has zero empathy and you are seeking to find empathy then I respect that you are trying to find help but if you are trying to legitimately find help then that would show you have at least a glimmer of empathy inside you. I wish you the best of luck in your journey


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OfflineEugene Gesuale
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27059360 - 11/26/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
psychopath?

hmm...

there is no cure for boredom, or for the "dont-care" illusions that are part of the "co-morbidity", although, if you can see life as a journey (as opposed to a gift, or a Disneyland ride - no refunds, no rewards) which takes effort and interest, and which is personal and unrelated to the games that go on between self and other, then, this could be a good route for you, trail blazer that you are.

it will take time and effort.
a lot of both.

read up, plan your space, create your own treatment plan, keep notes, make sure there is enough food and drink and hygienic comforts and get busy learning to connect and reconnect. Do not make a game out of it.



I love this. Wow, spot on insight and wisdom


--------------------
Everything in life is a trade-off.

All posts made by this account are purely satirical in nature.


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OfflineChucklesCheebah
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Re: Any idea if mushrooms can cure me of being a diagnosed psychopath? [Re: Eugene Gesuale]
    #27059404 - 11/26/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Ive spent many years around many sociopaths of varying degree and i dont believe anyone telling you that set and setting and psychadelics can give a human empathy. I dont feel many people responding here have spent much time with sociopaths nor have they had psychadelics with sociopaths. I have on 100s of occassions and although some people believe psychadelics cure all mental health they wont do what people are saying sorry


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