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Offlinedehyd
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ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?!
    #27055620 - 11/24/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

As they are both classified as 'psilocybe'

I was reading some of the pinned posts and they described.. trying to mate an amanita spore and psilocybe spore is like a human trying to make babies with a monkey - it won't work.  But as humans, we can mate between races... so can you try and breed any psilocybe with another psilocybe ending up with some sort of psilocybe variety?

I am super n00b

thanks
:mushroom2::confused:


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Offlinebasilic85
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: dehyd]
    #27055638 - 11/24/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

They do not have the same growth environments, nor the same climate requirements in order to grow


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Invisiblejoze
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: dehyd] * 2
    #27055651 - 11/24/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dehyd said:
As they are both classified as 'psilocybe'

I was reading some of the pinned posts and they described.. trying to mate an amanita spore and psilocybe spore is like a human trying to make babies with a monkey - it won't work.  But as humans, we can mate between races... so can you try and breed any psilocybe with another psilocybe ending up with some sort of psilocybe variety?




The name 'Psilocybe' refers to the genus of the organism, not the species. In the scientific naming system, the first name (Capitalized) is the genus, or family of species, and the second name (here cyanescens or cubensis) refers to the species.

Crossing P. cyanescens and P. cubensis would be like trying to get lions (Panthera leo) and tigers (Panthera tigris) to breed. In the case of lions and tigers, that actually kind of works, but even then, the offspring cannot reproduce.


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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: joze]
    #27055677 - 11/24/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard there are some species of psilocybes that are genetically similar enough that a hybrid may be possible.

Possibly between cubes and ovoids, for example. (I think I heard this example from Alan Rockefeller, so don't look at me too crazy)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! (moved) [Re: dehyd]
    #27055700 - 11/24/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.

Reason:
Better fit here.


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Offlinebasilic85
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: One of Us]
    #27055701 - 11/24/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

One of Us said:
I've heard there are some species of psilocybes that are genetically similar enough that a hybrid may be possible.

Possibly between cubes and ovoids, for example. (I think I heard this example from Alan Rockefeller, so don't look at me too crazy)



Have you a link it would be interested.


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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27055806 - 11/24/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

He mentioned it in this thread

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
It's [referring to cubes] closest relative is Psilocybe chuxiongensis from China, and second closest is Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. (see phylogenetic tree) It is possible that it could be hybridized with these species.





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Offlinethe man
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: One of Us] * 2
    #27056092 - 11/24/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

google what a genus is and what a species is.

ie pine trees... pinus glacus, pinus nigra..  genus is pinus ie pine tree but different species. grow in different areas and look different. similar to cats lion and pussy are same as psilocybe but differ as different species.


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OfflineRandom_Hunter
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: the man]
    #27056323 - 11/24/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Look into taxonomic rank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomic_rank

I'm not a biologist but basically:

Domain
Kingdom: This is where Fungi starts.
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
Genus: The first word in a scientific name(Psilocybe), it can be thought of as a "family", but more in the sense of immediate family where siblings are obviously closely related.
Species: A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms in which any two individuals can produce fertile offspring. Emphasis on fertile, two different species in the same Genus can sometimes reproduce, but the offspring are usually not fertile and cannot reproduce themselves.
Variant/subspecies: Not super relevant for IDing, for specimens that are the same species, but with differences that are not enough to differentiate. Amanita muscaria has a few variants of different cap colors.

In the context of the OP, a race would essentially be a variant, there are a lot of different cubensis(strains/races), but all are the same species.

https://www.shroomery.org/13887/Strains-varieties-species


Edited by Random_Hunter (11/24/20 10:39 PM)


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Offlinedehyd
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: Random_Hunter]
    #27056763 - 11/25/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

wow thanks for all the replies! starting to get  it


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Invisiblejoze
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: One of Us]
    #27056820 - 11/25/20 09:38 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

One of Us said:
He mentioned it in this thread

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
It's [referring to cubes] closest relative is Psilocybe chuxiongensis from China, and second closest is Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata. (see phylogenetic tree) It is possible that it could be hybridized with these species.








I'd take that with a grain of salt. Phylogenetic trees aren't necessarily fact - in fact I just found a couple of papers on Google Scholar that have different species listed as the sister species to P. cubensis than Rockefeller mentions.


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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: joze]
    #27056843 - 11/25/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Rockefeller never stated it as fact, just said it could be possible, so of course I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Do you have sources for the papers listing the other sister species of cubensis? I would love to read them.


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Invisiblejoze
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Re: ARE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS and PSILOCYBE CUBENSIS the same 'species'?! [Re: One of Us]
    #27056863 - 11/25/20 10:04 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

One of Us said:
Rockefeller never stated it as fact, just said it could be possible, so of course I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Do you have sources for the papers listing the other sister species of cubensis? I would love to read them.




Phylogenetic and chemical studies in the potential psychotropic species complex of Psilocybe atrobrunnea with taxonomic and nomenclatural notes
https://doi.org/10.3767/003158515X685283
Fig. 4.

Phylogenetic inference and trait evolution of the psychedelic mushroom genus Psilocybe sensu lato (Agaricales)
https://doi.org/10.1139/cjb-2013-0070
Also Fig. 4.

Morphological and molecular evidence for a new species of Psilocybe from southern China
http://dx.doi.org/10.5248/129.215
Fig. 2.

Some of these papers show multiple phylogenies using different pairing methods, and they don't all include the same species in their analyses.


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Edited by joze (11/25/20 10:07 AM)


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