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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Malkuthian]
    #27001220 - 10/24/20 12:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

i wonder if Earth's Sun contains the RAM for Earth?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Simulated Universe *DELETED* [Re: Malkuthian]
    #27005211 - 10/26/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by laughingdog

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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #27006955 - 10/27/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Here's a good one of Tom Campbell for those who might be interested. Virtual reality, purpose, morality, ethics:



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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Warrk]
    #27019896 - 11/03/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Campbell is interesting. Out of body experiences have shown me a calculated, simulated, computed sort of a universe. It's almost as if the officialness we expect from Christianity is out of date. You know, in Christianity, everything is so mighty and glorious and everyone is so clean. This is really an antiquated attitude, apparently. The universe is more like a reasonable computer game, one that adapts to our needs, and seemingly isn't afraid to show its limitations, at least within and without a human body on Earth. I mean if you look at the cosmos and the galaxies it's like it's doing the opposite - showboating its infiniteness, its limitlessness. But when I smoked DMT the walls ran out of shading computation - it was like someone turned the colour depth down, and I saw pulses of electricity or magic or something go through the ceiling, as if the universe is this giant object of some kind, a kind of awkward one.

I like it. I really like the multidimensional nature of it. I think it is mysterious and it is intellectually satisfying.


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #27021047 - 11/04/20 09:20 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
Campbell is interesting. ...




.  Maybe -- but what strikes me is his "lack of affect" or in everyday terms his deadpan emotionless face and delivery. He looks like he just got a botox injection and over dosed on valium.

.  Compare him to other teachers that that are supposed to have some insight, for example: Eckart Tolle, who actually engages with his audience, and has a sense of humor. I can't help but wonder what caused Tom to get so attached to the comfort of calmness, as to no longer be capable of relating to others' humanness. Seems simply wierd.


Edited by laughingdog (11/04/20 09:21 AM)


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #27039767 - 11/15/20 12:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

My gripe with simulation theory is it begs two questions, that, depending on your metaphysic, can quickly lead to infinite regress:

An illusion/simulation of WHAT?

An illusion/simulation for WHOM?

If you answer "reality" and "the self" for both of those, you imply you have an existential context from which to compare and contrast these things. Outside of out of body experiences and psychedelics, this is very limited and even then tenuously consistent enough to argue as empirical proof this is a consciousness simulation.

I always say this reality is "as real as real gets", precisely because you have no other context; you're existentially anchored, as you, and that is the only unwavering, unmoving part OF your experience.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27040045 - 11/15/20 07:33 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

But we die though.  Therefore we know this self experience is temporary.  Doesn’t this grant something?


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #27049557 - 11/20/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Death is just like another day.


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27049558 - 11/20/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
My gripe with simulation theory is it begs two questions, that, depending on your metaphysic, can quickly lead to infinite regress:

An illusion/simulation of WHAT?

An illusion/simulation for WHOM?

If you answer "reality" and "the self" for both of those, you imply you have an existential context from which to compare and contrast these things. Outside of out of body experiences and psychedelics, this is very limited and even then tenuously consistent enough to argue as empirical proof this is a consciousness simulation.

I always say this reality is "as real as real gets", precisely because you have no other context; you're existentially anchored, as you, and that is the only unwavering, unmoving part OF your experience.




Yeah this is the thing I had to say about life being a dream - which reality is the dream about?

Terence McKenna weighed up whether reality was a simulacrum (ie. an illusion latched onto human experience, in that the world is mind-created) or whether it was a "cosmic system of some kind."


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #27049771 - 11/21/20 01:20 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
Death is just like another day.




You may have been joking here, but you're actually closer to reason than you may know!

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
But we die though.  Therefore we know this self experience is temporary.  Doesn’t this grant something?




You sure about death? All sorts of existential contradictions regarding that. Same thing with birth. They're existential bookends.

I'm admittedly caffeinated and lit AF atm, but these are my musings on this topic:

The idea of death is something I have rejected from a philosophical perspective…that is, from a perspective of capital-T Truth. I am okay with death form the purely empirical side of things…that eventually our bodies give out for whatever reason and we are returned to the dust from whence we sprung. But from a rational position, one where fundamental epistemological conceptual consistency is the only real basis for knowing anything at all (which is true), nothing about death makes sense...

...And birth, being death’s corollary in this regard, is in the same position.

You see, if we only accept truth based upon empirical “evidence” then we can never arrive at a rational, relevant, and meaningful answer to the question “what is man?”.

For man is more than his senses; more than just his body. If he were not, then consciousness would be impossible.

The Singularity of the Self…that is, the constancy which is necessary for consciousness, and from consciousness, observation, and from observation, conceptualization, and from conceptualization, meaning, and from meaning Truth, is utterly denied when we accept that man is merely a transient phenomenon; that there is nothing constant and absolute about his Self; that consciousness is entirely finite; it begins with blankness, and returns to blankness, which fundamentally nullifies all which it had learned and spoken in the meantime.

Consciousness is where the empiricists and determinists and objectivists completely fail in their philosophy, which is why they relegate it to mere epiphenomenon—an illusion, with a purely subjective ontology. Consciousness, by their standards, remains “inside”, whilst “objective truth” is that which is found on the “outside”.

That this renders consciousness mutually exclusive from objective existence, and thus makes conscious understanding impossible, and thus any claims about what constitutes objective existence and truth likewise impossible, which voids their entire philosophy…well, that never seems to come up much.

But we can't have our cake and eat it, too.

Consciousness cannot spring from the abyss of absolute unconsciousness (pre-birth) flourish for a while to grasp all manner of empirical and objective truth, and then return to the abyss (post death).

The 1 of consciousness cannot be born from and then die to the 0 of oblivion.

Consciousness, whether we want to accept it or not, is a Singularity; it is Absolute.

The existence of You is predicated on You being a constant.

If there is no constant/absolute frame of reference for You, then You is impossible.

You cannot be a function of that which is outside of you, because then You are not actually You...

...And You cannot be merely relative to that which is outside of You because then there is no fundamental constancy to You, in which case you have no grounded frame of reference by which to define “You” in the first place...

...And You, and by that I mean Your Self, and by that I mean your Conscious Awareness of Self, cannot merely be some (perhaps complicated or mysterious) kind of cosmic or evolutionary illusion because that begs the question: “An illusion of what?” And that question has no answer because the “what” is that which the proposition (that consciousness is purely an illusion) denies can even exist in the first place...

...And consciousness cannot likewise be a non-illusory product of some unconscious biological/evolutionary determinative process because that creates the self-defeating assertion that consciousness is direct function of unconsciousness….

...That somehow consciousness can step out of the absolutely unconscious processes from which it directly springs, observe these processes from a specific and distinct frame of reference, and proceed to make claims about the “objectivity” of the utterly unconscious determinative nature of consciousness.

The only options we have are: 1. That Consciousness IS, and is Singular, and thus does not come from the Nothing which precedes birth and return to the Nothing which follows death; or 2. That it is a function of either a purely relative existence, unconscious biological/evolutionary determinative processes, or is an illusion. In other words, that consciousness is in fact entirely unconscious.

And only one of these two options makes consciousness actually possible.

You ARE; and You are Constant.

I don’t really care what objectivists, empiricists, scientific pseudo-philosophers, or other nihilistic determinists think; I've listened to their positions on this for years and years and it never changes and never manages to wiggle its way out from under the rock of self-defeating contradiction which crushes it to dust. I've heard everything, from appeals to quantum physics to cosmic evolution to taxicab geometry (where apparently squares are also circles ,you hear me bash people here all the time for this…which, no; this is verifiably false all day long). Any and all attempts to negate consciousness as being what it self-evidently IS fail, always fail, and will fail forever.

So…with that being said, how now can we proceed to understand birth and death from a rationally consistent point of view?

Do they even exist at all?

Well, subjectively, perhaps.

But "objectively"...NO!


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27049828 - 11/21/20 03:20 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Dream egos exist via survival of the fittest..

Wandering wanderlust!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27049900 - 11/21/20 05:45 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

why cannot it pop-up and poof away?
what you do with it can inspire and assist others while here
we exchange that spirit by connecting
otherwise we leave a lonely trail, but it is a trail none the less, and even that residue may have some meaning to some.
so I do not buy this statement of yours, but I do appreciate that you went to the effort to type it.

"Consciousness cannot spring from the abyss of absolute unconsciousness (pre-birth) flourish for a while to grasp all manner of empirical and objective truth, and then return to the abyss (post death). "


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27050991 - 11/21/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Does absolute unconsciousness even exist is it possible?  That would imply a point of view for something to be unconscious but absolute idk.  Even still I’ll grant LS the statement that it has to come from somewhere or something in the grand scheme of things but what are the odds that death in the conventional sense turns out to be a joke where we continue to live eternally as this same personality.  No I think this very much as an end.  :awesomenod:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27051010 - 11/21/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

when my computer is turned off (it's a windows surface tablet thing) it is like unconscious - pretty much flatlined except for a clock ticking and wifi radio ack/naks.

after I turn it on, it awakens, and appears to be in a state where I was when I turned it off, usually.

but the essence of all that is that people can boot up rapidly from unconscious sleep to waking consciousness without coming from anyplace except our body - we can return to who we were when we last were here, usually somewhat refreshed.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27051423 - 11/22/20 01:35 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
when my computer is turned off (it's a windows surface tablet thing) it is like unconscious - pretty much flatlined except for a clock ticking and wifi radio ack/naks.

after I turn it on, it awakens, and appears to be in a state where I was when I turned it off, usually.

but the essence of all that is that people can boot up rapidly from unconscious sleep to waking consciousness without coming from anyplace except our body - we can return to who we were when we last were here, usually somewhat refreshed.




Your computer also doesn't remote view or astral travel.

If it does or did, you'd still be unable to empirically "prove it" because you're also locked into an existential constant of perception yourself. Self and Other. Is your computer practicing solipsism, or is this proof of solipsism because you're locked and can't prove the computer has consciousness like you, one way or the other..., just like with other people...?

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Does absolute unconsciousness even exist is it possible?  That would imply a point of view for something to be unconscious but absolute idk.  Even still I’ll grant LS the statement that it has to come from somewhere or something in the grand scheme of things but what are the odds that death in the conventional sense turns out to be a joke where we continue to live eternally as this same personality.  No I think this very much as an end.  :awesomenod:




I'd argue consciousness by its very nature is absolute and everything is a function OF that, including the ideas and thoughts that your consciousness is an illusion. The part that's temporary is the perception OF yourself and your body. Nobody is arguing the body expires. Your consciousness is locked into that body matrix. You can leave said matrix via lucid dreaming and astral travel, which becomes easier with practice. High dosages of psychs will also unlock this.

The only illusion is that of seperation, buffered by your perception of yourself. Life on this level is akin to a static trip that acts as home base, which most never leave. It's like being born inside your house and never leaving. You have no context that there are other houses, streets, cities, states, borders, countries...fractal reality.

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
why cannot it pop-up and poof away?
what you do with it can inspire and assist others while here
we exchange that spirit by connecting
otherwise we leave a lonely trail, but it is a trail none the less, and even that residue may have some meaning to some.
so I do not buy this statement of yours, but I do appreciate that you went to the effort to type it.

"Consciousness cannot spring from the abyss of absolute unconsciousness (pre-birth) flourish for a while to grasp all manner of empirical and objective truth, and then return to the abyss (post death). "




You cannot be a function of that which is outside of you, because then You are not actually You. And You cannot be merely relative to that which is outside of You because then there is no fundamental constancy to You, in which case you have no grounded frame of reference by which to define “You” in the first place.

Many try to argue against this but illusion can't be the root metaphysic for this reality. If it's the base of reality then it's the base and therefore irrelevant and indiscernable without another context (which you never have, even in the ego death threads people insist this and it's fucking hilarious), which then defeats the purpose of requiring illusion as a concept to explain what you're experiencing, which is what I'm arguing is the issue here; illusion is a relative term for which you have no context because unless you're experimenting with your consciousness you never leave this plane, which is entirely anchored by perception, so that's a huge assumption to begin with.

The irony is most will argue illusion precisely because they've misappropriated their metaphysic so it requires additional, and thus unnecessary,  variables.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27051528 - 11/22/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting stuff LS. What's your take on the Simulation Hypothesis then, and how does consciousness tie into it?

Have you listened or watched any of Tom Campbell's material that I posted in this thread?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27051531 - 11/22/20 05:57 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

this "misappropriated their metaphysic" type of loss of ones keys should lead to more panic than it does, so maybe it is not such a big deal, merely a glimpse of useful psychological leverage.

also the self is a more approximate imprint in a temporary (life span) mind. the part of self that is visible, is usually contextual. When people seek psychological help I think it is often due to lack of contextual health. trigger management usually before understanding or 'metaphysics'


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27051954 - 11/22/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

yeah and that is good but circumstances have to be loving and nurturing
sensitive
giving a fuck
feeling
compassionate
looking to
mentally
attentionwise as in caring
understanding
wanting it to proper/perfect


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27053731 - 11/23/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

@Neil Degrasse Tyson
“It’s hard to argue against the possibility that we are all created from some kid in a basement”

Possibility is just the thing.  Simulation theory seems to be another iteration of a way to relate to possibility and the unknown.  Whether it’s God, simulations, spiritual worlds it’s a way of characterizing it.  I’m not sure why it’s mixed in with empiricism that seems like a bit much.


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27054098 - 11/23/20 02:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I hate to come here and be the ultimate pessimist, but here goes:

"You" is just your brain assigning itself an identity, with the body.

Everything about you comes from society (your name, accent, language, etc,)

There's nothing there. I wish there was, but I am pretty sure there is not.

Have no fear, death is just the final day. You won't even remember it, it's fine.


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