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OfflineShakedown Street
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: smalltalk_canceled]
    #27050817 - 11/21/20 07:36 PM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

Thanks for the advice, starbones.
Where do you get the Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis bacteria ?


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InvisibleF. 3
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: Shakedown Street]
    #27051307 - 11/22/20 12:59 AM (7 days, 14 hours ago)

:whathesaid:


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: F. 3]
    #27051667 - 11/22/20 10:09 AM (7 days, 5 hours ago)

BTI wont do anything ve fungus gnats anyway. Maybe the larva but they have such a fast life cycle big deal. Just clean.


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: starbones]
    #27051690 - 11/22/20 10:23 AM (7 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
It's fun to read some of the articles and such about fungus gnats and their effect in commercial mushroom farming as spreaders of trichoderma. Almost as fun as being told I've got no idea what I'm talking about.

Fun article on some experiments
https://news.psu.edu/story/423023/2016/08/30/research/lord-gnats

Fellow graduate student Maria Mazin has been able to show that not only are female gnats attracted to the green mold, but they probably bring it in the house and spread it around as they lay eggs. Then, when the larvae develop and emerge as adults from the compost, the fungi stick to their bodies and are carried further. “My lab is using science to validate what the farmers have seen,” says Cloonan.  “When you talk to them and they respond ‘We knew it!’ that’s what cool — we can prove the anecdotal stories floating around.”

Fungus gnats absolutely, positively do spread trichoderma. You can find other articles dealing with commercial mushroom farming that trichoderma is one of their biggest attractants.

If you have one tub go shitty with trich and it's got gnats. The gnats are going to spread it when those larvae emerge as adults and coat themselves in LIVING MOLD MYCELIUM. If you got mold elsewhere in your home and they get on that they'll bring it into your tubs. I know bod and RR are experienced old hands and I'm not trying to cause any static but they're both incorrect. There's no reason to have them in your home though as they're an easily controlled pest.






You say positively right after quoting an article that says they probably spread it elsewhere. The article says they're attracted to the green mold that's already contaminated a grow. Hence Making sure you don't grow any green mold is a great strategy for keeping the gnats out in the first place

Heres the paragraph directly preceding where you quoted

Quote:


He has found they’re strongly attracted to a few fungi, including Trichoderma aggressivum. As its name suggests, this fungus is an aggressive parasite that eats other fungi. “It’s like an army of dissolving warriors,” Cloonan says. Once a farmer notices the mushroom crop is infested, this “green mold” has probably already eaten most of the belowground parts and even worse, “If you try to get rid of it, the spores will be airborne and will go all over the place.”





Again the gnats come if you're already fucked.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27051797 - 11/22/20 11:28 AM (7 days, 3 hours ago)

BTI is only for treating the larvae, use pyrethrin to treat adults.
Mushroom houses treat infestations by treating both. Sticky traps are only used to get a rough idea of numbers in a mushroom farm.

The attraction to trichoderma is for laying purposes not consumption. Green molds are ideal foods for their young. Adult fungus gnats will enter a home in pursuit of scents of things they can drink, old beer or soda can left out, anything sugary. Decomposing fruits shit like that or if the weather outside has begun to cool. Lots of reasons they come in. Those adults may have just emerged from larvae that were feeding on trichoderma in the soil.

Probably is being used here because obviously not every adult will and it's impossible to trace every trich infection back to a gnat. What are you going to do? An exit interview after they've finished laying some eggs?

Probably is a far sight more likely than "They don't" and if we're applying occams chainsaw to this and commercial mushroom farmers are saying "Hey fuck, Bill you ever notice trich outbreaks seem to coincide with our gnat outbreaks?" then it's a strong indicator, especially given the data that gnats prefer to lay in trich.

None of this shit is a problem for a guy running a handful of shoeboxes or one or two monotubs. It's a big problem for a commercial mushroom farm or a guy trying to juggle up to a 100 monotubs at once. If that guy were to have trich at spawn due to unclean spawn in one tub whilst having gnats in their environment then yeah, that sounds like a problem. Those gnats as you can see by the article are going to move to that trich to lay, then move and find another spot to lay, then another spot to lay, carrying trich on their bodies.

I'm not an entomologist but if there is something that the gnats are HIGHLY attracted to for laying in it stands to reason that the relationship could likely be a two way street. A honeybee collects nectar and in the process spreads pollen unknowingly helping continue to grow its food source. There's nothing to say that the relationship here is any different.

Ok now beyond all of that. They're considered a major greenhouse pest due to spreading molds like fusarium, botrytis and verticillium. What is the logic being used that they don't in home fungus cultivation?

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/14-003.htm#three
" All greenhouse crops can be affected. In addition, fungus gnats can transmit disease-causing organisms. They are actually attracted to infected plants, and studies show that the adults can spread spores of disease-causing fungi such as Rhizoctonia (see Figure 5) by flying to non-infected plants and excreting the spores. Adult flies can also spread Fusarium, Verticillium and other fungi by means of spores that are caught on their legs and bodies. Organic media such as peat and cocofibre favour reproduction of fungus gnats."

This says spores of course but if spores can get caught on their bodies so can the trich-myc they've been twerking in.

They're a pest, they spread mold.
Do nothing about them if you want but I don't like pests in my home at the end of the day, let alone pathogen carrying insects looking to call my substrates dinner.


--------------------
Clean your home.
Secret bulk recipe, broken jar of colonized spawn submerged in half a
can of concrete sealer paint cased with coir.



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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27051803 - 11/22/20 11:34 AM (7 days, 3 hours ago)

As for where to get BTI, don't use it if you've just got a couple shoeboxes going or something like that. I noticed no harmful effects but I'm not copping blame if someones grow fucks up because of something else, their mistress gets pregnant or their house burns down.

Mosquito Dunks, Aqua-Bac, lots of products out there. It's sold as a larvacide for use against mosquitos and gnats around standing water, horse troughs, greenhouse flood tables (I got it from a hydroponics/farm store) etc.


--------------------
Clean your home.
Secret bulk recipe, broken jar of colonized spawn submerged in half a
can of concrete sealer paint cased with coir.



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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: starbones]
    #27051817 - 11/22/20 11:42 AM (7 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:


The attraction to trichoderma is for laying purposes not consumption. Green molds are ideal foods for their young. Adult fungus gnats will enter a home in pursuit of scents of things they can drink, old beer or soda can left out, anything sugary. Decomposing fruits shit like that or if the weather outside has begun to cool. Lots of reasons they come in. Those adults may have just emerged from larvae that were feeding on trichoderma in the soil.




We know. RR just clarified that for you a few days ago. When you didn't realize the adults couldn't eat.

Also if you read the article you posted in full they couldn't coax the female adults to seek out scents that were not specific phermones and the smell of trich. So soda, fruit, beer, probably not attractants based on the science you posted


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27051902 - 11/22/20 12:30 PM (7 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:


The attraction to trichoderma is for laying purposes not consumption. Green molds are ideal foods for their young. Adult fungus gnats will enter a home in pursuit of scents of things they can drink, old beer or soda can left out, anything sugary. Decomposing fruits shit like that or if the weather outside has begun to cool. Lots of reasons they come in. Those adults may have just emerged from larvae that were feeding on trichoderma in the soil.




We know. RR just clarified that for you a few days ago. When you didn't realize the adults couldn't eat.

Also if you read the article you posted in full they couldn't coax the female adults to seek out scents that were not specific phermones and the smell of trich. So soda, fruit, beer, probably not attractants based on the science you posted




No disrespect here bod but take a minute on this one.

Chastise me some more about not reading the article when you yourself don't?
They specified the test was for pregnant females, pregnant females looking for laying sites.

So for non-pregnant females and males, yes those things are attractants.

Adults do eat, rather it's that they drink. RR didn't clarify anything of any sort, only muddied up things. RR has gone on in the past about using fruit as an attractant in a trap. What are adults going there for bod? The ambience? They are looking for sweet, sugar laden liquids to feed on. They do eat and it's blowing my mind here the statements being made. The same guy claiming that fungus gnat adults to not consume anything is saying you can make traps with red wine? What kind of cognitive dissonance is that? Are they just going there for a quaint tasting before they retire to their vineyard?

We can argue the semantics between the act of eating solids and drinking as being considered as two different forms of consumption but that's dumb. They drink water, they'll drink your stale beer, they'll drink red wine and I can tell you they seem to enjoy Mountain Dew and old pumpkin spice latte too.

Fungus gnats are a minor pollinator due to the fact that they are attracted, like a honeybee to sweet sugar laden things like nectar.

"When you didn't realize the adults couldn't eat."

That's very condescending given that he's wrong but what do I know right?
They live for eight days, they still have a metabolism. They're an uncommon pollinator due to consuming nectar. Saying they don't feed is wrong, dumb and I could start growing some pans with this kind of horse shit.



Edited by starbones (11/22/20 12:39 PM)


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: starbones]
    #27051949 - 11/22/20 12:53 PM (7 days, 2 hours ago)

Anyways if you've got a bunch of fungus gnats in your home and want to get rid of them because they're a pest and you don't live in some godforsaken shithole and/or don't want any house guests to think you're a slob.

You got four options.

Stop growing for awhile so they don't have anywhere to lay.

Treat them.

Resign yourself to living with pests in your home and try to explain to a dinner guest it's not THAT disgusting when one flies in front of their face while they're eating some spaghetti.

Prayer.

You're adults, I assume. Living, functional adults who can use a broom, a dishwasher, you can wash walls and generally be a clean person. You can set out a mouse trap if you got mice right?
Live with pests or don't, it's up to you.

If you choose not to, BTI is effective as a larvicide and pyethrins are a rapidly degrading insecticide useful for fogging a home to rid it of pests. One works on larvae one works on adults, neither work on the other.


--------------------
Clean your home.
Secret bulk recipe, broken jar of colonized spawn submerged in half a
can of concrete sealer paint cased with coir.



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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: starbones]
    #27053047 - 11/22/20 11:41 PM (6 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
Fungus gnats will eat your mycelium and if the numbers are high enough will contaminate your tubs.

I was having mold issues with all sorts of different kinds and that did not resolve until I got the cocksuckers under control. They are covered in bacteria and will cover themselves in mold spore as they crawl around looking for stuff to eat.

You do not need to take a break from cultivating, just use a larvacide on your plants and substrate. They are most likely egg laying there already so moght as well


You need to kill their larva, adults only live eight days and the best way to handle the larva is to get
Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis bacteria to use.
It is a larvacide that only kills two things, mosquitos and fungus gnat larva. You can water your plants with it and no larva will survive. Keep treating until they are all gone. You can also add this to your misting water if you believe they are egglaying in your sub (they are). I have been misting four monotubs and 8 of my early grow bags with it and there has been no discernible issues. Fungus gnats were gone in a week. I did not use the bacterial laden water mist until my sub was fully colonized. You can buy Mosquito Dunks, Aqua-Bac, Skeeter Bitz etc online, hydroponic shops and agricultural shops. Farmers use it on water troughs, hurts nothing but gnats and skeetz

Deal with the adults by making easy DIY traps they drown in. Bit of water, dish soap and then a splash of apple cider vinegar or red wine vinegar or even red wine works great. They try to sip and drown, change these out daily.

They are shitty fliers, they suck ass at it so you can keep them away from things with a gentle breeze from a fan

You can make glue traps from yellow paper smeared with vaseline it you want as well.

Protect plants from future invasions by putting a small layer of diamotaceous earth on top of the soil. It cuts the adults to shit as they try to climb through it.



They can also carry mites which cause similar problems. Mycelium starts to disappear, mushroom degrade or even disappear completely, next thing you know there's tiny specks swarming the whole tub inside and out.


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InvisibleMateah
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: Kizzle]
    #27053182 - 11/23/20 12:23 AM (6 days, 14 hours ago)

I had to open the window and shake out about 15-20 gnats from a small shoebox that I harvested a few hours ago. I have a tons of plants at home and there's muc growing from the soil in almost every one of my pots, it's some kind of white mold but it doesn't sporulate visibly. From the houseplant videos on YouTube battling fungus gnats is all about stopping the fungus (which is the food source for these gnats) Idk how true it is but they say that if you eliminate all the mold the gnats will eventually disappear completely :shrug:


Somehow I didn't panic at all seeing dozins of gnats crawling all over the sub in that one shoebox, I don't believe these gnats will neither contaminate a healthy substrate nor do I believe the yields will somehow decrease because of them. Altho I do worry that they'll become breeding grounds for more gnats during those weeks it takes to fruit, I hope that's not the case lol


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: Mateah]
    #27053354 - 11/23/20 06:46 AM (6 days, 8 hours ago)

Late case your houseplants with sand


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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27053371 - 11/23/20 07:09 AM (6 days, 8 hours ago)

Omfg that's brilliant :facepalm: and at the same time I'm horrified as to why I couldn't think of that before I went and seasoned all of my pots with cinnamon powder cause a witch from YT told me to.


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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: Mateah]
    #27053373 - 11/23/20 07:12 AM (6 days, 8 hours ago)

This is one of many flyv traps at my place, yes things are dramatic over here lol and I don't wanna hear anyone complain about fungus gnats okay? Y'all don't know what fungus gnats are lemme tell ya... :lol:


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: Mateah]
    #27053389 - 11/23/20 07:28 AM (6 days, 7 hours ago)

Pfft.





The sticky strips from 1 out of 10 4' shop lights in my grow area.
Many many monotubs means big bad juju outbreak.

Stopped that shit cold though with the two things I was mentioning earlier.


--------------------
Clean your home.
Secret bulk recipe, broken jar of colonized spawn submerged in half a
can of concrete sealer paint cased with coir.



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Offlinestarbones
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I'm a teapot


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Re: Fungus Gnats [Re: Mateah]
    #27053398 - 11/23/20 07:37 AM (6 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
Omfg that's brilliant :facepalm: and at the same time I'm horrified as to why I couldn't think of that before I went and seasoned all of my pots with cinnamon powder cause a witch from YT told me to.




BTI as I was mentioning earlier is sold for horticultural purposes for the home gamer, a small amount goes a long way and it's cheap. Gnatrol WDG are some BTI granules you add to your watering water which kill the larvae good'n'fuckin dead. Any online hydroponics shop or Amazon should be good to go for getting it. Will stop the larvae from chewing your plants up before they pupate and try to fuck off.

Cheap as chips with a mix rate of anywhere from between 1g to 3g per gallon of water depending on infestation severity. 10bux for 60g goes a long way.

DE is useless when wet. Making reapplication after watering necessary. It loses it's ability to succ the fats and oils from bugs while cutting them up.


--------------------
Clean your home.
Secret bulk recipe, broken jar of colonized spawn submerged in half a
can of concrete sealer paint cased with coir.



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