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OfflineGr0wer
always improving
Male

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 10 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2686402 - 05/16/04 12:30 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

why did you delete the post?

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Offlinedoc34
Fungitarian
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Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 2,667
Loc: Myceliaville !!!
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2688019 - 05/16/04 06:03 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I dont want to spread stupid information,so I deleted my post!


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OfflineGr0wer
always improving
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Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 10 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2688170 - 05/16/04 06:49 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

LOL, Your contimplating yourself by doing that. Anyways just chill out.

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Anonymous

Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2688911 - 05/16/04 09:21 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Post History Deleted Upon User's Request

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OfflineTransplant
Janitor
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 77
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: spores]
    #2689300 - 05/16/04 10:45 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

DH, I deleted posts due to your request for a free education. Although I was not going to respond and focus on other issues, I felt it would be rude to someone truly wanting to talk about mycology. Here is a link that should get you started. BTW, yeast was not used at my University for Pathogen Genetics, I guess we had the funds for real research that would have medical potential.
http://www.fgsc.net/

BTW, my knowledge is far from advanced and if I did not make mistakes or knew all the answers, there would be no reason for me to be learning now on the shroomery, I would instead getting patents and curing a lot of illnesses.


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Will Screw For Shrooms

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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2690121 - 05/17/04 03:54 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for the feedback there Doc but you mistaking me for someone who cares...


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Offlinedoc34
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Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 2,667
Loc: Myceliaville !!!
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2690240 - 05/17/04 04:50 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

you replied didnt you ?
lmao :grin:


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Invisiblespores
haploid
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Registered: 02/18/99
Posts: 2,486
Loc: Washington
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Transplant]
    #2690552 - 05/17/04 09:17 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting link, thanks for posting and not taking things personally :wink: .  All of those besides the coprinus are a lot more simple than mushrooms, so I don't quite see the parallels you were trying to make earlier but that's still pretty cool stuff :cool: .

Peace,

DH

Edited by DH (05/17/04 09:31 AM)

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OfflineTransplant
Janitor
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 77
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: spores]
    #2690571 - 05/17/04 09:28 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think I understand what I was trying to say also in the state of mind I was in. I am sure I caused confusion to more then just myself. My apologies.


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Will Screw For Shrooms

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OfflineNoG
journeyman

Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 98
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Transplant]
    #2692788 - 05/17/04 06:50 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

woot im scottish and i struggle to fit so many swear words in one breath. You dudes needa chill lol.



Later NoG

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Offlinecharvo
JOURNEYMAN
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Registered: 03/09/03
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Loc: In The Hand Of The World
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: NoG]
    #2693023 - 05/17/04 07:44 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

:whack:

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Offlinedoc34
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Registered: 02/14/04
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2695050 - 05/18/04 05:26 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

All I want to know is-would it be possible for a home cultivator to obtain a "new"strain,at home,in a kitchen?
If so,what are the steps in doing just that?

Even if not,what are the steps?


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2695054 - 05/18/04 05:31 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, that would really be an interesting kind of "tek" ...

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Offlinedoc34
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Re: how is a strain made? [Re: ragadinks]
    #2695185 - 05/18/04 07:20 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

It would indeed!


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InvisibleYesItsMe
Homeless GOHOME !...
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 253
Loc: Working for Piss ;...
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2695508 - 05/18/04 10:29 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

doc34 said:
All I want to know is-would it be possible for a home cultivator to obtain a "new"strain,at home,in a kitchen?






Clear question , we would like a clear answer ! pliz

Any experts !


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God save the Queen

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OfflineMycena
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Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 270
Loc: indonesia
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2695886 - 05/18/04 12:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Obtain though selection - maybe - probably yes
obtain by design - prob no

The most you can do with any kitchen tek is to take a wild print or regular strain and sift through the matings and find the mutants and recessives

Albino strains for example

but you are not really making a new strain just deriving one
If you want to amke it you need to separate all your nonokaryons, test incomapitbilities, reconstruct the genetic properties of the monokaryons by the characteristics of the cross matings and then
take the monokaryons dsiplaying the traits you want and cross themn to obtain the stated outcome

this is the kind of program they used to turn the brown cold temperature Enoki into the commercial asian high temp white enokis in use today

prior to this they used the former technique of somatic selection and derivation of new strains by selection. this technique had reached its limits so the starins in circulation were used to intentionally breed new hybrids

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Anonymous

Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2697791 - 05/18/04 05:14 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I did not tell you that it could not be done.

It seems to me that you are acting more like a troll, then a contributing member, or even someone interested in learning.

There are many people here who have alot of information to share. It seems that most of these people if not all of them are ignored, or disrespected by newer members that lack any information to share, and seem more interested in arguing then learning.

Because people use words you consider big, doesn't make them arrogant, or snobby, it just makes explanations easier. It helps to use the proper terminology to get a point across. It also makes learning easier, becasue simply trying to define terms you don't understand will help you learn the entire process being discussed. If we use a word like Dikaryon, and you don't know what it is, you look it up. Next time you try and discuss something, you know the proper terminology.

Dikaryon is a word that relates to a specific event in MYCOLOGY. It does not relate to an event in animal biology. It is not a big word for the sake of big words, it is as simple as CAT or DOG. It is just a word. Trying to explain it's meaning, would require the use of lots of other BIG words, and woulod lead to more confusion.

You make NEW strains by bringing monokaryons from two existing STRAINS together to form a third strain that has equal parts of the two other strains. A haploid nuclei from one sytrain comes under the same roof as a haploid nuclei from another strain. If and when these two nuclei fuse together and undergo meiosis, you have recombination of the A factors of the two different strains, and recombination of the B factors of the two strains. YOU NOW HAVE COMBINATIONS OF GENES THAT DID NOT EXIST TOGETHER, BEFORE YOU PUT THEM TOGETHER.

You have a strain from America mating with a Strain from Australia, combining genes from these two different Strains together. THAT IS A NEW STRAIN. IT may or may not be stable.

A strain is a group of individuals homozygous for certain traits. This means in the fungal world, that the mating type factors are different, but other genes are shared. So no two identical monokaryons mate, but the group of disimilar monokaryons share certain traits that make them a population of a STRAIN.

Taking a single Strain(print) and doing all work from that single print is SELECTION. Bringing monokaryons from two different strains together in a controlled way is hybridization, and it leads to NEW strains.

New strains also come about in nature by isolation. A strain is introduced into a new environmnet, and begins inbreeding in that location, over time, it will favor individuals that produce best in that climate(selection) or new alleles may arrise through mutation of existing individuals which can lead to new Strains arrising from the population.

So if you want to breed for potency, you have to isolate the BEST monokaryons from a Strain(selection) and mate them with the best Monokaryons from another strain, and MAYBE the HYBRID Strain will possess the Trait for High potency, and it will have been put into a NEW STRAIN. But even if the trait is in the new strain, you still have to isolate(select) for the best individulas.

In essence you have to work with monokaryons to have any control over the outcome of the dikaryon.

So you are both right and wrong.

If a strain is pure it is homozygous for certain traits, but can still be very heterozygous for lots of other traits. Since we are defining a strain as a population of individuals that share traits, they are homozygous and pure.

All GT will resemble each other coming from a single print. This appearance may change due to environmnetal influence, but the changes will be uniform across the entire population. GT grown on RYE at a certain temp, etc... may look different from GT grown on Millet, but the individuals will look similar to each other on the same substrate in the same environmnet. The heterozygosity means that certain individulas will be permorming better then others, and this is where selection becomes important.

Selection is picking the best individulas in the group for your particular environmnet. Making new strains is a combination of selection and hybridization, or mutation.

And I thought you were leaving this lame site.

the purest strains of pot still show variability, they are just Pure for certain traits, like high potency. But even though they are all higher potency, some will be more potent then others. THERE IS STILL VARIABILITY.

Discounting GT as being something unique from EQ is WRONG. They are different. We just don't know how different they are. They may share one common ancestor, or they may have different ancestors all together.

Lets theorize for a second.

Lets imagine that Lipa Ya is the mother of all cubensis. It would have a common mating type loci with all other cubenis. Only 3/4 of all mating with any other cubensis would work. Only 1/4 of all matings with itself would work. Lets imagine that it had no relation to a few cubenis strains, then 100 % of the matings would be succesful with any of the cubensis it was not related too.

This is what needs to be determined to KNOW how related all the cubensis strains are. We need to perform compatability studies within each Strain, and between each strain. Once we know ancestory then a good breeding strategy can be done. NEW STRAINS of superoir peformance can be Manufactured, and selected for. Manufactured in the sense that you are doing the selections and bringing the monokaryons together.

If you want to be a stickler for EXACTNESS, there is absolutely nothing in the world that is made by man. Even the most synthesized shit on the planet has it's origins in something made by GOD or Nature or whatever creation philosophy you subscribe to. Whe just bring things to gether that would never come together, or alter them in ways they would never be altered.

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Offlinedoc34
Fungitarian
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Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 2,667
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Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: ]
    #2697998 - 05/18/04 05:57 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Can We be Friends now?



Thank you for the explaination.

I am not a troll(may smell like one every now and then)!
I was leaving until now!
This site isnt lame.
I'm right and wrong?I can deal with that!
I do try to contribute what I can.
I am learning!

I just thought that I may be able to put my signature on a new strain,and yes I get mad at times(genetic flaw?)But I mean well.
Even though The only part I got out of that was"seperate your krayon's".
It will take me while but I'll be back with a few new words in my vocabulary,of course with their definitions too!
I guess I have some studying to do!

Thank you Mycena , and Teonan ,for your replies,they are in my fav's so I dont forget!!!


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InvisibleYesItsMe
Homeless GOHOME !...
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 253
Loc: Working for Piss ;...
Re: how is a strain made? [Re: ]
    #2700054 - 05/19/04 05:58 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Thank u Teonan


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God save the Queen

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Anonymous

Re: how is a strain made? [Re: doc34]
    #2705074 - 05/20/04 10:14 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

:smile:

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