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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,825
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 8 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: umapuma]
#27049226 - 11/20/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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That looks super gnarly man.
What’s in the Tupperware?
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LAGM2020     
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,982
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LoadedFish]
#27049282 - 11/20/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LoadedFish said: Fuuuuuck. Is there really no possibility it was just a regular gnat
You're not a gnat, are you, Bug?
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Rumpleforeskin
Scientist new to mycology



Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 82
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27049318 - 11/20/20 05:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: That spawn looks suspect to me, I don’t like seeing condensation in grain spawn. Condensation inside a jar is caused by some serious heat being produced and usually things producing a lot of excess heat are not good for our grow. Not a vigorous looking colony either, I personally would not have spawned a jar that looked like that.
This is good information.
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Rumpleforeskin
Scientist new to mycology



Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 82
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27049319 - 11/20/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: Yes I'm aware. I'm just trying to be accurate here, condensation does not automatically mean bacteria. There are other factors to consider.
Some poor noob may see Pasty's comment and start sweating profusely over their jars with concern, lol.
This is ALSO good information
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AtmozFear
just a shade of myself


Registered: 01/25/19
Posts: 1,032
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LoadedFish]
#27049320 - 11/20/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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My first grow hundreds of bugs crawled out every time I sprayed with water... still turned out to be a good flush
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LoadedFish]
#27049335 - 11/20/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LoadedFish said: Fuuuuuck. Is there really no possibility it was just a regular gnat
Unlikely, especially if it was in your tub. If it was walking around on the surface there is a good chance it had found a place to two to lay. It has all the things a fungus gnat is looking for their larvae to have. There is not really any knowing in our tubs v.s. houseplants where they can be more visible.
Is the weather outside nice or is it winter? If it's cold outside and everything is frozen you've already got fungus gnats.
If you see another let me know. I can guide you on getting rid of them. If the adult laid eggs you will see new adults in 3-4 weeks. In that time any eggs that hatch in your sub will develop into larvae which will burrow and eat before becoming adults.
If it becomes a problem contact me and I will guide you on how to eliminate them. Do not use apple cider vinegar bowls, sticky traps or any of that nonsense except for hoping to kill a few before they get to your sub. That stuff doesn't work when mycelium is available. You'll only kill a few.
I should take mushboys advice and write a tek on fungus gnats explaining the way to eliminate them for good in one shot. Explain why they're so bad for our hobby and that they're programmed to spread trichoderma.
Best of luck and remember to gimme a shout if you see more.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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AtmozFear
just a shade of myself


Registered: 01/25/19
Posts: 1,032
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27049349 - 11/20/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said:
Quote:
LoadedFish said: Fuuuuuck. Is there really no possibility it was just a regular gnat
sticky traps
Sticky traps eliminated the problem for me
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LoadedFish
Psilocybin Enthusiast


Registered: 07/12/20
Posts: 107
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27049375 - 11/20/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It’s still 40-50 degrees Fahrenheit where I’m at.  Are there any preventative measures I can take right now without hurting the myc. I really don’t want to deal with fungus gnats and I want to avoid larvae eating my sub
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: LoadedFish]
#27049610 - 11/20/20 09:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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If they're outside your home yeah. Any swampy shady areas of your yard treat with a soil drench of Bt var. israelensis. This is going beyond the scope of mushroom cultivation and more towards pest control metholodgy.
Pest control companies will use Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis granules to create a solution that is sprayed on the outside perimeter of the home, to wet areas of the lawn, areas of standing water etc. If they're coming in and you have houseplants they'll look for the damp soil in those, treat the soil with BTI and the larvae that hatch in the soil will die. This goes for everywhere they try outside as well. It's only toxic to them and mosquitos.
I fogged my home with Pyrethrin, not a single one survived. Pyrethrin rapidly degrades so it becomes safe quickly. Don't use it if you have a cat without boarding the cat somewhere else for awhile and it's toxic to fish as well.
Once they're dead you need to asses your home and your habits as a prevenative. No open garbages, look for cracks in window frames, get better screens etc. Look for areas of mold outside, be cleaner. Wash dishes and put them in the dishwasher immediately, keep drains and sinks clean.
My problem got out of control because I didn't believe it was a problem because I listened to the wrong people. It quickly got out of hand.
I'm too tired to type a whole pile of shit up right now but heres the way.
Treat houseplants with BTI, you can buy it in granules or Mosquito dunks. If they've been on a substrate then give it a mist too. I've used it more than a few times when I was getting these cocksuckers under control and it didn't fuck my sub up or make it go shitty. That takes care of any new generations of them.
Then go buy a can of insecticide fogger that contains pyrethrins. Follow the instructions and safety precautions. Use it. Get a spray can of pyrethrin based insecticide too because not only is it great for fogging a single room but the smell of it sprayed on the wall will drive the little motherfuckers out way harder than peppermint oil, neem etc will. Raid Max 3 flying insecticide is awesome. Smells like air freshner and the gnats won't go near anything it touches. If it hits them, they die.
There's predatory nematodes for treating larvae but the idea is not to have one of the mold covered flying motherfuckers get into your sub in the first place. That's how they carry in pathogens.
Even if one of the shitters comes back it sure as fuck won't enter my grow room while there is pyrethin scent on anything so it just harmlessly fucks around for it's 8 day lifespan unable to lay any eggs and fucking off back to hell where it belongs.
I'm tired and rambling.
tl;dr, get Skeeter Dunkz, Aqua-Bac or some other form of BTI, employ it. If your house is fulla flying cunts already not just a handful then get a Doktor Doom Total Release Fogger or 2 and use as directed. get a can of Raid Max 3 Flying Insect shit, spray it in the air in your grow room and let it settle. Use also as directed, same active ingredient as Doktor Doom (pyrethrin) and majorly useful. Rapidly degrades.
I'll fight with anyone in the morning who wants to tell people on Shroomery Fungus Gnats aren't a big deal and that they don't cause mold. You can take it up with the Penn State entomology department. They are a major pest of commercial and home mushroom cultivators, they DO spread green molds namely trichoderma. Full stop.
Goodnight
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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umapuma
Doña

Registered: 09/20/20
Posts: 16
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: A.k.a]
#27049950 - 11/21/20 07:01 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: That looks super gnarly man.
What’s in the Tupperware?
Rye Grain, Coir, Coffee and Gypsum - grow kit. What does gnarly mean in reference to mycelium? I've just found a newbie cultivator thread, I'll have a read there too. Thanks.
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,825
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 8 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: umapuma]
#27049963 - 11/21/20 07:20 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It looks super bacterial to me.
The myc visible on the sides and bottom shouldn’t be such a solid white with defined edges. If it keeps colonizing I’d let it run regardless though unless mold shows up.
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LAGM2020     
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Quote:
stareatclouds said:
Quote:
LoadedFish said: Fuuuuuck. Is there really no possibility it was just a regular gnat
You're not a gnat, are you, Bug?
My man!
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,940
Loc: ation
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27050065 - 11/21/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Great movie.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,819
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27050147 - 11/21/20 09:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I’m not convinced the BTI has done much for the fungus gnats. The way BTI works is the cry toxins produced by the bacteria need to be eaten by the insect in question. The low pH in the gut degrades the protein sheath surrounding the cry toxin which exposes the spikes which then can shred the insect from within.
Fungus gnats do not eat so I’m not sure how BTI would be able to have an effect.
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roarkell
The Roar Master!



Registered: 08/29/19
Posts: 2,223
Loc: Southern WI
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27050188 - 11/21/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Went for more grain today... figured with it being harvest time around these parts I'd have a bit of a selection... nope. Just oats... oh well... I'll find a big bag of wheat or rye someday...
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,819
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: roarkell]
#27050215 - 11/21/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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WBS has been doing well for me lately, I’m still rocking it.
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
#27050253 - 11/21/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I’m not convinced the BTI has done much for the fungus gnats. The way BTI works is the cry toxins produced by the bacteria need to be eaten by the insect in question. The low pH in the gut degrades the protein sheath surrounding the cry toxin which exposes the spikes which then can shred the insect from within.
Fungus gnats do not eat so I’m not sure how BTI would be able to have an effect.
BTI won't kill adults, only larvae. Fungus gnat adults only have mouth parts and a stomach for drinking. Nectar, sweets like soda, sugary excretions etc. It's the larvae it works against. Larvae need fungi to survive. They'll chew healthy roots in a potted plant so molds can invade them and then they can consume the mold mycelium. It's a two pronged attack that's necessary to deal with an infestation from what I was reading about commercial cultivation. BTI is a larvicide only
If you kill all the larvae you may have a few laying adults survive that will lay elsewhere. If you kill all the adults you still have eggs that are immune to both BTI and insecticides and live larvae. Need to have a drench of BTI so it's in the soil and on the myc that the larvae are going to consume.
Got to do both, one treatment for adults, one for larvae. I'm doing a 7 day follow-up treatment.
You were correct in your assessment in a comment you made a few years ago that they are a major contamination vector. Other TCs like RR/Bod etc who disagree are incorrect and I can prove you right factually.
https://news.psu.edu/story/423023/2016/08/30/research/lord-gnats
Using experimentation he found that pregnant females are attracted to a few fungi exceptionally. One of the strongest attractants to them as an ideal place to lay? Trichoderma.
Fungus gnats will fly from site to site laying, digging, burrowing into patches of trichoderma mold be they hidden in the home, outside the home or in one of your subs. They carry live trich myc on themselves and spread it. It's like a symbiotic relationship. Trich gives their larvae something the pregnant gnats are looking for and in turn when their larvae are finished eating they pupate and emerge covered in trich. Green molds.
Our substrates provide ideal conditions for their larvae even without trich, however if there is trich anywhere in your home or in one sub it will transfer to other substrates eventually by them.
BTI for the larvae, harmless pyrethrin based insecticide for the adults. Treat both, treat again in a week. You will not see one of the fuckers again until their outdoor season begins anew.
I must stress how effective pyrethrin is for not only killing the motherfuckers but they won't go NEAR anything that has the residue on it. I was fucking amazed that after I fogged my home they seem to have completely vanished. Any of their larvae have been given an abortion as well.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
Edited by starbones (11/21/20 10:42 AM)
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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27050303 - 11/21/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fungus gnats are never a big enough problem for me that I would resort to using any chemicals or BTI or whatever else you have been using, I think you mentioned pyrethrins
Sticky traps, maybe a vacuum in worst case scenarios to suck up the adults, and then just ditching the tubs after a couple flushes...but by the time they take over a tub you should be spawning new anyways
I have fungus gnat problems all the time...they don't actually ever affect my yield nor spread contamination like I've heard people claim...if you have trichoderma issues, it probably isn't because fungus gnats caused it....
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sh4d0ws]
#27050383 - 11/21/20 12:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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BTI is just bacteria. Pyrethrins are derived from chrysanthemum flowers.
Neither of these things is ooga-booga-badbad chemicals.
"I heard people claim", Not that they're a major contamination vector in mushroom grow houses or anything like the article I shared from the entomology department at Penn State says they are. Fungus Gnats spread green mold, full stop. There's no reason to tolerate them being in a home.
Even if they don't in your situation it boggles my mind that people tolerate pests in their home. Why live in filth?
If an outbreak is bad, BTI and pyrethrins are the solution, or another combination to achieve the same effect. As per real mycologists working in commercial mushroom farms. If you haven't had a bad outbreak yet consider yourself lucky.
Growing in massive quantities can lead to massive problems. I understand a few monotubs can be controlled with lesser treatments but an outbreak when your monotub count surpasses 40 is not something I would ever throw a sticky trap at. That might be fine for a few shoeboxes or a couple monotubs but no way would I deal with ACV bowls, sticky traps, vacuuming or any other tomfuckery.
The bottom of my big monotubs is roughly 17x22", that's 2.6 sq ft. If I fill my basement grow room again back up to 70 monotubs that's 181sq ft of surface to worry about. That's a lot of potential for a massive outbreak.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
#27050395 - 11/21/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well I'll throw in my 2¢ .. having run a touch more than 70 tubs and having had a gnat outbreak before.
a simple bleach mop and diluted bleach spray of walls, shelves, surfaces, ECT in grow room will eliminate the problem in my experience.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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