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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis * 2
    #27027848 - 11/08/20 03:19 AM (19 days, 9 hours ago)
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Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis

Published October 29, 2020

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/dta.2950

https://sci-hub.se/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/dta.2950


Abstract:  Psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin, norbaeocystin, and aeruginascin are tryptamines structurally similar to the neurotransmitter serotonin. Psilocybin and its pharmacologically active metabolite psilocin in particular are known for their psychoactive effects. These substances typically occur in most species of the genus Psilocybe (Fungi, Strophariaceae). Even the sclerotia of some of these fungi known as “magic truffles” are of growing interest in microdosing due to them improving cognitive function studies. In addition to microdosing studies, psilocybin has also been applied in clinical studies, but only its pure form has been administrated so far. Moreover, the determination of tryptamine alkaloids is used in forensic analysis.

In this study, freshly cultivated fruit bodies of Psilocybe cubensis were used for monitoring stability (including storage and processing conditions of fruiting bodies). Furthermore, mycelium and the individual parts of the fruiting bodies (caps, stipes, and basidiospores) were also examined. The concentration of tryptamines in final extracts was analyzed using ultra‐high‐performance liquid chromatography coupled with mass spectrometry. No tryptamines were detected in the basidiospores, and only psilocin was present at 0.47 wt.% in the mycelium. The stipes contained approximately half the amount of tryptamine alkaloids (0.52 wt.%) than the caps (1.03 wt.%); however, these results were not statistically significant, as the concentration of tryptamines in individual fruiting bodies is highly variable. The storage conditions showed that the highest degradation of tryptamines was seen in fresh mushrooms stored at −80°C, and the lowest decay was seen in dried biomass stored in the dark at room temperature.


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OfflineThe Dalcassian
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27030327 - 11/09/20 04:08 PM (17 days, 20 hours ago)

Interesting, we're both samples in sealed containers or exposed to the open air?
I'm assuming the former, as my understanding was that light and oxygen were the main reactants in degradation whilst temperature is responsible for the rate at which it degrades.


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Invisiblexspak
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: The Dalcassian]
    #27030331 - 11/09/20 04:13 PM (17 days, 20 hours ago)

Wow !

If I interpret this right then the conclusion would be to dry them in the dark and store at room temperature, preferably under inert gas ?

Because inert gas is not so easy for the hobbyist then vacuum sealing would probably be the next best option ?

However, in general this study is pretty bad news. Even when choosing the best option half of the good stuff is gone after one month storage.

Thank you very much for posting this !


Edited by xspak (11/09/20 04:30 PM)


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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: xspak]
    #27030382 - 11/09/20 04:56 PM (17 days, 19 hours ago)

Sorry, super tired and bad at sciencing: when they mention a better "yield" from fungal powder than whole pieces, they're referring to better readings with the tests and not necessarily actives available, right? Does this translate to availability at time of ingestion?

I'd love to see dried fruits in storage compared to fungal powder, though. I want to know if keeping the fruit hole protects the actives better than powdering. So fungal powder for 3 months compared to whole fruit for 3 months which is then turned to powder before testing.

Awesome stuff. I'll have to read it fully later after sleep.


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InvisibleMuthaFudpuckerS
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: xspak]
    #27030428 - 11/09/20 05:43 PM (17 days, 19 hours ago)

Extremely interesting report. I really wish that they had tested drying in a dehydrator versus at room temperature in the dark. We tout the use of dehydrators at 165f/75c to dry them out rather than letting them dry at lower temperatures or with a fan or whatnot. It would be nice to have some actual data on that.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: MuthaFudpucker]
    #27030459 - 11/09/20 06:07 PM (17 days, 18 hours ago)

Reading this confuses me because I still eat some brazilians I grew during the summer and I trip just as hard now as I did then. Pretty sure this batch is from April and I tripped last week with no discernable difference on very similar amounts.


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Invisibleevlyshrooms
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: starbones]
    #27030466 - 11/09/20 06:13 PM (17 days, 18 hours ago)

Powder may have allowed easier more accurate measurements of active chems through out experiment, but in reality it's the worst way to preserve potency as it leaves a much greater surface area of the fruits exposed to the elements.


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InvisibleFriedEgg
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: evlyshrooms]
    #27030803 - 11/09/20 11:17 PM (17 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

evlyshrooms said:
Powder may have allowed easier more accurate measurements of active chems through out experiment, but in reality it's the worst way to preserve potency as it leaves a much greater surface area of the fruits exposed to the elements.



:whathesaid: they had to homogenize the samples to get consistent measurements.


this study is great but there are two problems i see:
1. the fruits were dried in the dark at room temperature instead of using a dehydrator. who's to say they were fully dry? but i understand they didn't want to skew the future results by exposing the samples to heat before they're measured.
2. the samples were stored in "zip bags". as we all know, zip bags are not air tight. so maybe the 50% loss in alkaloids after 1 month is due to the samples taking on water weight.

it's still interesting seeing how light can reduce potency. that's new to me.


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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27030868 - 11/10/20 12:37 AM (17 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
the highest degradation of tryptamines was seen in fresh mushrooms stored at −80°C




Anyone know if this observation would also apply to fresh shrooms that have been made into a tea and then frozen?


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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: FriedEgg]
    #27030964 - 11/10/20 02:54 AM (17 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

FriedEgg said:
it's still interesting seeing how light can reduce potency. that's new to me.




From the little I've researched, we've already known that light exposure can destabilize psilocybin in "aqueous solutions" and cause it to oxidize. So now I guess we know potency is also lost when powdered fruits are dried in the light, too.

Definitely want to see them compare dried fruit bodies with the fungal powder. I feel like the whole fruit would protect the actives until it's go-time.


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: stareatclouds]
    #27034329 - 11/12/20 01:05 AM (15 days, 11 hours ago)

Very interesting, thank you.

Light (usually UV and ionization as well as the formation of activated intermediate states of compounds can allow them to then turn into degradation products - getting em over the threshold.. depends on absorption/resonance/sensitivity), oxygen, water, temperature... depending on the degradation reactions they are your standard factors involved.

So it's good to know to take light/UV seriously, we already knew dimeric indigo like compounds could fluoresce right? so there does seem to be sensitivity.
But for the rest I thought freezedrying was really the only realistic way to preserve the psilocin. (Also more basic ways of cold drying which tends to get very impractical)

I need to look through the methods, but I figured throwing fresh mushrooms in the blender with enough alcohol could denature enzymes present instantly before they are able to start throwing things out of whack, if not for getting the alkaloids you want then at least a better timefreeze snapshot of what seems to be the alkaloid profile present at that moment. Could make for a tincture but not a great approach to purifying your crude product more conveniently.

To protect against the mentioned oxidation, ascorbic acid or citric acid to lesser extent are said to give an anti-oxidant, protectant and even reversing effect (in mild cases). However further research is needed to confirm the ins and outs of that.

The fresh mushrooms stored at -80C were they instantly cooled to that temperature so as to avoid formation of ice crystals? The shadow side of this might be not until it is thawed again and the enzymes you actually also protected in the process can after all get a chance to mess everything up good?

Very interesting. Need to read this well, but I'm familiar with some previous research.


Edited by Solipsis (11/12/20 01:06 AM)


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OfflineShu
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: Solipsis]
    #27041041 - 11/15/20 08:14 PM (11 days, 16 hours ago)

This finding is contrary to what I've read:

"The mushrooms were stored in a freezer (-20°C) before loading into a lyophilizer. It was
found that the concentrations of all analytes were reduced in the lyophilized samples except
for psilocin. The most significant decay was in psilocybin, where there was an 88 %
reduction
in concentration, from 1.30 wt.% to 0.16 wt.%. "


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: Ambrose]
    #27047554 - 11/19/20 05:27 PM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Ambrose said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
the highest degradation of tryptamines was seen in fresh mushrooms stored at −80°C




Anyone know if this observation would also apply to fresh shrooms that have been made into a tea and then frozen?




Frozen tea will keep for years without losing potency, from personal experience.

This study dries fruits at ROOM TEMP and compares that to, so far as I can discern, fresh fruits stored at -80 degrees (and -20, -4 and 20). 

Any frozen fruits rapidly degrade when thawed (AKA blue-black slime). :nojustno:

At least at the end they suggest "To improve the storage of dried mushrooms, they should be stored in an inert gas environment."  Doesn't seem that's what they did for the study.

So you have, let's see, inadequately dried fruits stored with access to oxygen.  That's a recipe for degredation.


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Edited by PrimalSoup (11/19/20 05:35 PM)


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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27047585 - 11/19/20 05:41 PM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

So the the fruits going from solid to slimy is what leads to the degradation of the actives?


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: Ambrose]
    #27047594 - 11/19/20 05:49 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago)

I understand it has to do with the cell walls bursting during freezing.  There is no mention in the article about any flash freezing which might avoid that.  But the oxidation and loss of potency from freezing is pretty well known, and anybody who's tried it will be familiar with it (as in the quality of thawed frozen fruits is disgusting).  This doesn't happen obviously when freezing tea, although to be clear IME that involves acidified tea, since it's how I've preserved harvests for many years now.


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InvisibleAmbrose

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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27047622 - 11/19/20 06:06 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago)

Oh I see, so the bursting of the cell walls contributes significantly to the oxidation, especially when compared to the tea?
That is interesting.

You also mention the acidified tea, is that because you haven't stored regular tea long term or rather because you have found differences between storing the two?

It's sad that the methods of this study were so flawed(or at least not applicable to typical methods of storage.)


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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: Ambrose]
    #27047713 - 11/19/20 07:14 PM (7 days, 17 hours ago)

The cell walls bursting is why they decompose when thawed.  Whether that directly contributes to oxidation or something else is involved I don't really know - but freezing of fruits is not useful for preservation. :shrug:

Tea is different as the actives are in a uniform solution.  I only make acidified tea and its the only kind I've stored.  One would have to do the experiment to find out what effect that has in freezing.


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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27050245 - 11/21/20 12:29 PM (6 days, 16 minutes ago)

I had read through this earlier but neglected to note that it appears that the authors did not use an isolated culture. Given how much of an impact genetics have on potency (and they do seem to acknowledge this when they observe the different quantities of alkaloids in caps vs stipes isn’t statistically significant due to genetic variation) I personally would put a lot more stock in their findings had they done something like run 10 isolates against each other. I personally feel that given the lack of control employed on the genetics used calls into question the results, at least somewhat.


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OnlineMessiah of Savants
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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27051177 - 11/21/20 11:14 PM (5 days, 13 hours ago)

The one and only time I made tea and stored it in the freezer the tea was completely bunk when I tried it. I made the tea from 2oz of dried mushrooms like I have before hundreds of times now (except with no lemon this time, I wonder how much effect pH has on degradation). I dosed the same night and forgot about it on the counter and didn't get back to it until about 24 hours after I made it. I poured the approx. 500ml into an ice cube tray and tried them about a week later. No effects at all. I never would have thought that 24 hours sitting on the counter at room temp would have destroyed all the magic. I've been meaning to try it again though and pour the ice cubes right away because people swear it works fine.


Edited by Messiah of Savants (11/21/20 11:15 PM)


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Re: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis [Re: Messiah of Savants]
    #27052409 - 11/22/20 05:03 PM (4 days, 19 hours ago)

If you let it set 24 hours at room temp you killed it dead right there.  :murray:


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