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mrwhiskers
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Testing of Soak-Only Oats
#27047591 - 11/19/20 03:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi guys, I'm experimenting with No-Boil Soak-Only Oats. The reason for this is that I have 60 Quart Tubs that I want to prepare bulk oats in. That way I can prepare more volume at once while I don't have to clean up oats in the pot on the stove or deal with dangerous hot water. I dry the oats on a sweater drying mesh bed with a space heater in front of it.
I filled a 500mL jar with oats soaked for 4-5 hrs and they didn't burst in the PC. I'll be testing 12hr and 24hr soaks.
Edited by mrwhiskers (11/19/20 04:08 PM)
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Kyhoops1
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: mrwhiskers]
#27047827 - 11/19/20 06:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I’ve been doing 24hr soak. Strain dirty water, back in pot, fresh water, on the stove till it boils, take of immediately. Very few burst grains if any. They are much cleaner and not sticky. Got (15) quart jars going now. PC’d for 2hrs. Before with just a 30 minute boil I had tons of burst grains. Jars would get to 85% and stall. Hope this works better.
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mrwhiskers
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: Kyhoops1]
#27085420 - 12/12/20 10:16 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kyhoops1 said: I’ve been doing 24hr soak. Strain dirty water, back in pot, fresh water, on the stove till it boils, take of immediately. Very few burst grains if any. They are much cleaner and not sticky. Got (15) quart jars going now. PC’d for 2hrs. Before with just a 30 minute boil I had tons of burst grains. Jars would get to 85% and stall. Hope this works better.
Cool, yeah. I've been following Bod's Oat Prep Tek, which involves boiling like yours, but no soak time. I don't quite mind burst grains as much as I mind having to boil which requires me to go upstairs from the basement and then back down and then requires me to clean the pot that boils. So I'm really trying not to use a stovetop. I'm just trying to do a soak and then dry.
First time, I was over-drying with the space heater fan and my grains would not colonize. This second generation, I've been soaking for 12 hours and then drying, but watching the drying process quite closely so that the grains are still moist, but not as dry as they were before I soaked them. They are performing OK, but I want to optimize. I think I am leaning towards experimenting with even wetter grains, so less time or less heat when drying with the heater fan.
Edited by mrwhiskers (12/12/20 10:17 AM)
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ironcap
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: mrwhiskers]
#27085529 - 12/12/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Similar to Kyhoops1 I've done a 24 hour soak, drain, direct to jars and PC (instant pot) for 2 hours. Seemed about right, but I don't have a lot of experience.
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mrwhiskers
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: ironcap]
#27088492 - 12/14/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ironcap said: Similar to Kyhoops1 I've done a 24 hour soak, drain, direct to jars and PC (instant pot) for 2 hours. Seemed about right, but I don't have a lot of experience.
When you drain...you don't let it air dry much? So they must be pretty wet? Any issues with bacteria contamination? What temp are you colonizing at?
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RhYzo
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: mrwhiskers]
#27102117 - 12/22/20 07:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Any follow up?
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Josex
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: RhYzo]
#27102129 - 12/22/20 07:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sigh4.fg said: Any follow up?
I can imagine the result. Those oats are not correctly hydrated and that means bacteria at best and mold later on when spawned at worst.
If you want to skip the boil because of "dangerous hot water", at least be sure to load the grains wet, no drying whatsoever, just strain enough that they don't drip. That way they can take that extra water in the PC and maybe they'll come out hydrated enough.
But if you want to do stuff the right way you'll have to soldier on and confront your fear of hot water, because for larger grains, you are the one who wants to control the level of hydration for best results, leaving that task to a PC may not always work.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: mrwhiskers] 1
#27102181 - 12/22/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If hot water is dangerous why are you playing with a pressure cooker.
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smalltalk_canceled
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: bodhisatta]
#27102234 - 12/22/20 09:25 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
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mrwhiskers
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There's a TEK I found that has a soak only option with hot/warm water. I am differently using cold water. Soaking for 12 hours still like in this TEK: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26437511
So I first loaded my grain bags wet with no drying at all, but they seemed a little wet when they came out. I put some in a jar that does seem to be colonizing OK and not stalling than when I was over-drying them before.
For grain bags, now I'm letting them air dry with no fan in a 60L SGFC until they are dry on the outside but I can feel from the weight they are hydrated on the inside. They seem OK in the grain bags when I took them out of the PC. The question is how well will they do until fully colonized? Either it will stall if too dry or it will pool water which will also stall the colonization. Time will tell.
Hot water in a PC is different than hot water in an open pot which you have to drain and then carry into the basement. It's no longer hot in a PC when I open the lid.
Edited by mrwhiskers (12/27/20 04:14 PM)
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WizardSJ
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: mrwhiskers]
#27111024 - 12/27/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I will rinse wbs, pour it into a bucket and fill the bucket up half way with water and mix it occasionaly over 24 hours. Finish it off with a scoop of gypsum, bag then sterilize it. Much more convinient than boiling large amounts. The key is to add the perfect amount of water, it should all be soaked up.
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ironcap
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: mrwhiskers]
#27111321 - 12/27/20 08:35 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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After a 24 hour soak, I dump them in a colander for about 5 minutes, load in jars, PC (instant pot) for 2 hours, cool overnight and inoculate. No additional problems with contamination doing it this way. I will do this for LAGM2021 and include pictures.
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mrwhiskers
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: ironcap]
#27120797 - 01/01/21 05:17 PM (3 years, 27 days ago) |
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Just an update...It seems like my jars of 12hr-soaked grains where I loaded them wet are colonizing OK. They even look somewhat dry, but we'll see if they stall or not.
Edited by mrwhiskers (01/01/21 05:18 PM)
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Josex
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: mrwhiskers]
#27120828 - 01/01/21 05:41 PM (3 years, 27 days ago) |
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You need to hydrate your shit better man Maybe it ends up colonizing fully but doesn't mean it's good practice. Underhydrated spawn very often means trouble after spawning. Do you have pics?
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mrwhiskers
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: Josex]
#27249576 - 03/12/21 09:15 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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update: yes, it helps to soak for more than my original 12 hours. I think it can still work, but colonization times I think are increased if not hydrated properly. 24 hours works. I do not dry them out on the outside and have been throwing gypsum in the tub to make them not stick. will post additional updates with more results.
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MLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: Josex]
#27250114 - 03/12/21 04:06 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: You need to hydrate your shit better man Maybe it ends up colonizing fully but doesn't mean it's good practice. Underhydrated spawn very often means trouble after spawning
I have been thinking a lot about this due to my recent grows being downright embarrassing. Super slow colonization and a small increase in contam rate. ~50 tubs in the last two months, ~10-15% ish contam? I didn't keep track but it's around there.
Myers Mushrooms and Mossy Oak both use oats with a 24 hour soak so i thought "good enough for me" and started employing this. Like i said, fairly disastrous. Before i moved to bags, i used to boil oats, and my grows were excellent, just smaller scale. I got curious about hydration levels so i tested both methods. I soaked 100 g of oats for 24 hours (hottest water from my tap, ~115 F), and tried 100 g boiled oats (same method i used to use; bring water to boil, cut heat, dump in oats, wait 30 minutes, strain for 15 minutes, load 'n go). Boiled weighed 181 g after, soaked were 171 g. Visually, they look identical. I haven't directly tested boiled vs soaked in regards to colonization time, but i can say that i have 40 jars going right now with soaked oats that are moving so goddamn slow, i'm tempted to boil oats and PC+inoculate them, because i bet they would match or beat the soaked oat jars. Inoculated them 15 days ago and they had colonized to about the size of a big grape, so like barely 10%-ish.
Is there something about boiling that makes the nutrients more available? Or that oats have such a hard hull that boiling opens them? I don't know, i'm just frustrated as hell. Especially because if boiled IS the way to go, how the fuck am i supposed to boil and PC 30 lbs at a time without taking an entire day?
As far as pictures go, i did the test early this week and didn't take pictures (RIP i fuckin know better lol) and i just shook my jars yesterday. The bag was inoculated 7 days ago with 1/3 of a fully colonized quart.
  
Edit: Digging through old pics, i found this one. This was boiled oats with my first attempt at LC.
Edited by MLPismyOPSEC (03/12/21 04:11 PM)
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Josex
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Re: Testing of Soak-Only Oats [Re: MLPismyOPSEC] 3
#27250652 - 03/13/21 01:59 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yea for large grain ime preps that involved a soak (hot soak, cold soak, short soak, long soak...) to then load wet to finish hydration in the PC, worked until they didn't. They eventually bit me in the ass and hydration requirements vary from grain to grain and even from batch to bath, so that's something to consider as well. The grain might look good with these preps and even look decent when colonized too, it's later on when spawned that it can stab you in the back. Myers works with edibles, might have something to do.
So for large grains and especially those tough grains with hulls like barley and oats I would def want to control the level of hydration myself by boiling and then jar up once the grains are dry on the outside.
It's true what you say boiling makes the nutes in the grains more accessible to myc and this in turn helps it to create a stronger hold on the grains if that makes sense. Well hydrated grains are also easier to sterilize in the PC. However virtue is in the middle ground, you don't want your grains underhydrated but neither do you want them mushy.
As far as soaking overnight goes, if you look up posts of mine from not even 2 months ago, I was saying I liked to soak, but fortunately we learn as we go and currently my opinion has changed radically. When I started with the hobby I used to soak but that was short lived. Then I switched to boil only preps without a soak and I did that for years until the end of this last summer that I got back to the hobby after a hiatus and decided to give overnight soaks a try. The risks of soaking far outweighs its benefits imo. I recently did sides by sides, soaking vs no soaking and found clear as day that spawn that came from soaked grains were more prone to bacteria. I'd say you end up with more endospores in the grain than you started with. I defend we cannot completely destroy all endospores in a PC cycle, so you def want to avoid something that can potentially increase the endospore count.
Edited by Josex (03/13/21 02:07 AM)
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